Do you remember when .....

[ColCorbane]

Do you remember when the guard had suicide bombers?

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr272/Col-Corbane/forums/SDC12495.jpg

[Denzark]

Oh sweet redemption - and no mention of virgins!

[Gotthammer]

I liked that if the harness didn't go off they'd try to get off of the board to redemption and freedom.

[Melissia]

Good riddance.

[Renegade]

Some wonderful ideas now gone.:D

[mkerr]

Do you remember when the guard had suicide bombers?


I do remember when!

http://www.chainfist.com/2009/12/playtest-imperial-guard-human-bombs.html

[RocketRollRebel]

I do remember when!

http://www.chainfist.com/2009/12/playtest-imperial-guard-human-bombs.html

Sooo awesome. Stuff like that makes me wish I even knew the game existed back then. When I was 4...:p

[mkerr]

Sooo awesome. Stuff like that makes me wish I even knew the game existed back then. When I was 4...:p

Ouch. Lol!

[Subject Keyword]

Damn. No, I don't remember that.
There's something about the outrageous political incorrectness of this that both disgusts me and makes me want to start a Guard army.

[eagleboy7259]

Damn. No, I don't remember that.
There's something about the outrageous political incorrectness of this that both disgusts me and makes me want to start a Guard army.

Tallarn Human Bombers? --I wouldn't touch that idea with a 10 ft pole!

That's one odd looking stat line, what the heck did M, Int, Cl, and WP do in the game? I think I'd naw my arm off for a copy of that book. Frenzon dispensers? Explosive Collars?

[Aldramelech]

M=Move
Int= Intelligence
Cl=Cool
WP=Will Power

Its quite sad I remember that, I feel soooo old.......

[Subject Keyword]

M=Move
Int= Intelligence
Cl=Cool
WP=Will Power

Its quite sad I remember that, I feel soooo old.......

I'm sorry, WHAT?! Warhammer had Int. stats?
And what is "cool". If it's the rule of "it's so awesome it can get away with s**t", then I officially hate GW for getting rid of it.

My friends and I call it the "benefit of the BAMF."

[ColCorbane]

Tallarn Human Bombers? --I wouldn't touch that idea with a 10 ft pole!

That's one odd looking stat line, what the heck did M, Int, Cl, and WP do in the game? I think I'd naw my arm off for a copy of that book. Frenzon dispensers? Explosive Collars?

It wasn't from a book mate, it was out of WD, back then they used to publish codexes in WD. That pic came from the 22 page guard inaugural article.


I'm sorry, WHAT?! Warhammer had Int. stats?
And what is "cool". If it's the rule of "it's so awesome it can get away with s**t", then I officially hate GW for getting rid of it.

My friends and I call it the "benefit of the BAMF."

Cool used to be used for working out if they bottle it in a situation, things like fear and terror causing creatures etc.

[Herald of Nurgle]

I'm sorry, WHAT?! Warhammer had Int. stats?
And what is "cool". If it's the rule of "it's so awesome it can get away with s**t", then I officially hate GW for getting rid of it.

My friends and I call it the "benefit of the BAMF."
Imperial players naturally had lower ones :P

[Subject Keyword]

Cool used to be used for working out if they bottle it in a situation, things like fear and terror causing creatures etc.
Ooh. Like "don't lose your cool."


Imperial players naturally had lower ones :P
As the Quakers say, friend speaks my mind.:D

[Aldramelech]

These are all still used in Warhammer Roleplay. They used to be refereed to as the "Psychology Stats". The only one missing from the set is "Dex" for dexterity.

At some point GW decided to simplify the Stat line and all psychology tests were moved under the Ld header.

Cool, as has been stated, was for fear, terror etc.
Intelligence was used whenever the troops had to perform a task, such as fixing things. It wasn't used much.
Will power was your natural defense against "Spells" or other effects, such as gas.

WFB used the same system.

[RocketRollRebel]

Ouch. Lol!

haha no offense intended. I love the look of the old stuff and the old rules. Just saying I was 4 in 1989 so 40k woulda been a bit too complicated for me haha! I have a bunch of the old books from RT and 2nd on my computer just for extra reading fun.


Damn. No, I don't remember that.
There's something about the outrageous political incorrectness of this that both disgusts me and makes me want to start a Guard army.

That was the first thing that came to my mind but I didn't want to be the one to say it haha.

[Denzark]

It wasn't from a book mate, it was out of WD, back then they used to publish codexes in WD. That pic came from the 22 page guard inaugural article.



Cool used to be used for working out if they bottle it in a situation, things like fear and terror causing creatures etc.



But can also be found in the Warhammer 40000 Compendium ... Along with the Squat Army list and the marine one where Landraiders were 750 points each...

[Renegade]

Tallarn Human Bombers? --I wouldn't touch that idea with a 10 ft pole!


Throw in vox controlled device and I'm changing army!

Something about in-political correctness that is just appealing in war games, or any game. Twisted sci-fi humour and making a joke of real life.

Could see this boosting sales in the UK in no time.

[warpcrafter]

Is that from a Rogue Trader era army list? There were lots of awesome ideas from that edition that I wish would come back.

[Majorcrash]

not onl;y do i remember but I had the models! On the other hand suicidal guard is not a lost concept watch my spc wpn squad with a demo charge, more often then not it scatters back:eek:

[eagleboy7259]

Throw in vox controlled device and I'm changing army!

Something about in-political correctness that is just appealing in war games, or any game. Twisted sci-fi humour and making a joke of real life.

Could see this boosting sales in the UK in no time.

Idk it treads too close to the line in my mind, I just remember when someone was doing a very (German WWII era) ****-ish theme on either orks or IG, no swastikas but you could tell where the inspiration came from. Anyway that turned into a very heated debate about whether it was sweet or horribly incorrect with people either congratulating the guy on the nice conversion / paint job or saying "If that army was in my store I would refuse to play you and dang you to heck for being a horrible person"

I'd just be careful about it, it's kind of like the equivalent of having something like a confederate flag tatoo only in wargamming mini's; it might just be a game piece but it would piss some people the heck off.

[Lerra]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a lot of historical wargames involve people collecting a na.zi army? It's not quite the same as converting an army, but I'm sure it's not the first of its kind. It also seems odd to complain about na.zis when the world of 40k is full of that and worse with the forces of chaos, necrons, etc. There are a ton of evil bad guy armies.

[Cryl]

ah the memories... mostly rose tinted but still good times playing RT

[Renegade]

Idk it treads too close to the line in my mind, I just remember when someone was doing a very (German WWII era) ****-ish theme on either orks or IG, no swastikas but you could tell where the inspiration came from. Anyway that turned into a very heated debate about whether it was sweet or horribly incorrect with people either congratulating the guy on the nice conversion / paint job or saying "If that army was in my store I would refuse to play you and dang you to heck for being a horrible person"

I'd just be careful about it, it's kind of like the equivalent of having something like a confederate flag tatoo only in wargamming mini's; it might just be a game piece but it would piss some people the heck off.

In the same way that some might get offended by the use of "piss" and would be happy to use "hell" instead of "heck" you mean?;)

You know, just take a Devildog (or whatever the toxic one is) and put a Green flag in it, those guys would make an interesting 80s themed middle eastern army. (guess who):rolleyes:

I just think these guys would make an the game far more interesting, though I suppose a demo charge squad would be just as good.

40K is nothing if not full of fantastically horrible ideas, to me thats part of the appeal.

[Aldramelech]

The Soviet Union killed millions in all sorts of unsavory ways, and yet no one bats an eyelid about penal troops and commissars.

[Xas]

now gues what my tripple demo charge spec squads are modelled like? :D
they are the only tallarn mdoels in my army...

[Duke]

The Soviet Union killed millions in all sorts of unsavory ways, and yet no one bats an eyelid about penal troops and commissars.

too true!

[Cryl]

The Soviet Union killed millions in all sorts of unsavory ways, and yet no one bats an eyelid about penal troops and commissars.

Lets face it the Grim Dark future of 40k isn't really the place for the politically correct

[The.Justinian]

... Anyway that turned into a very heated debate about whether it was sweet or horribly incorrect with people either congratulating the guy on the nice conversion / paint job or saying "If that army was in my store I would refuse to play you and dang you to heck for being a horrible person"

I'd just be careful about it, it's kind of like the equivalent of having something like a confederate flag tatoo only in wargamming mini's; it might just be a game piece but it would piss some people the heck off.

Some things may be in poor taste, and yet so hilariously excecuted, that it's worth doing for the art value (Inglorious Basterds). Maybe it's something about being an American, and I don't understand, but parodizing the villain is something we love to do. In someplace where things are a little closer to home, the imagery of the Wehrmacht might hit a little close to home (or even be illegal), but from this distance I think it's not only safe, but in good taste.

The whole idea of a Chaos Demon army is that the monsters in your head come to life, yet we don't bat an eye at the idea that this might offend the mental health sensitivities of some folks. In fact, the whole 40k game is always at risk to an attack from the religious right...but we don't fret over it.

...Those are just some incoherent thoughts, but let me just reject outright the 'Confederate flag' analogy. It's more akin to being a Civil War reenactor that happens to be wearing gray--something that carries with it its share of controversy, but also something that we'd all feel comfortable saying is 'just for fun,' 'harmless nostalgia,'

If the 40k community has to worry about being infiltrated by skinheads, it's more likely that they'll latch onto the ubermensch character of the Astartes, or the nihlism of Chaos. And...honestly, Orks as Wehrmacht? Can't we take a joke? Doesn't anyone remember bumbling na.zi.s on Hogan's Heroes fondly?

But we're far OT.
I certainly don't remember that when, but I do remember 2nd edition codicies, vortex grenades, and an expansion box called 'Dark Millenium." I once saw Squats played in a legit game. As for the lost good ideas of the RT days, GW slowly is realizing that elegance in rules is better than chrome, and the deep concept of those ideas will be the germ of many cool, new things in the years to come, but without the clumsiness of chrome.

Tau have a suicide bomb, lest we not forget. Perhaps the idea came from this, no less.

[Aldramelech]

And besides, the badies always have the best uniforms and music..........

[Herald of Nurgle]

And besides, the badies always have the best uniforms and music..........
Unless you're Nurgle, that is.

[Aldramelech]

Are you trying to out Nurgle the Sisters now? lol

[gwensdad]

Unless you're Nurgle, that is.

How do you know Nurgle doesn't have cool music? For some reason, a version of "Dixieland Funeral" comes to mind.

[Herald of Nurgle]

How do you know Nurgle doesn't have cool music? For some reason, a version of "Dixieland Funeral" comes to mind.
The Carnival doesn't exactly happen to be known for the best music.

[Renegade]

Unless you're Nurgle, that is.

They may not look as good as the Noise Marines, but I bet they get better music! Slanesh probably gives them the worst, cheesiest, ear bleedingly annoying songs by the same considered bands ever. And by ever, I mean ever thought of, almost happened, yet to be.

Nurgle would probably get something with lots of drums and wailing, Shanesh would probably be Abba, Aqua or Britney type horror!

[Aldramelech]

Come on Barbie lets go party

[Renegade]

Come on Barbie lets go party

Now imagine that playing while being charge by an eight foot psycho or Daemonette... No daemonettes would be something from Spice Girls or (shudders) Bryan Adams!

[Aldramelech]

Imagine being charged by Necrons singing Girls Aloud! "We're beautiful Robots dancing alone!"

[Herald of Nurgle]

Come on Barbie lets go party
And they say that KHORNE is opposed to Slaanesh?

[Lord Azaghul]

My Penal Legions ARE Tallarn. Unforunately my democharge critters are metal catachans - but If I had Tallarn Demo charges you better believe I'd run them has suicide bombs. My democharges seem to be about 50/50 They either land spot on the enemy or manage to kill all but the guy who through the bomb in the squad.

On topic: (continued) its not really tasteless, in fact gw skirted around the issue by calling them 'human bombs' sounds so much better then 'sucide bomber doesn't it?' That isn't anymore disturbing then have the junk ruinous powers do each other!

[Dark_Templar]

I remember when people played for fun. Those were good times.

[Subject Keyword]

I remember when people played for fun. Those were good times.

Other people have played just to have fun?! What?!
Hmmph. I thought that was just me.

[RocketRollRebel]

My Penal Legions ARE Tallarn. Unforunately my democharge critters are metal catachans - but If I had Tallarn Demo charges you better believe I'd run them has suicide bombs. My democharges seem to be about 50/50 They either land spot on the enemy or manage to kill all but the guy who through the bomb in the squad.

On topic: (continued) its not really tasteless, in fact gw skirted around the issue by calling them 'human bombs' sounds so much better then 'sucide bomber doesn't it?' That isn't anymore disturbing then have the junk ruinous powers do each other!

Meh bat**** crazy religious fanaticism is what the imperium is all about so it really isnt that un expected.:p

[imperialsavant]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a lot of historical wargames involve people collecting a na.zi army? It's not quite the same as converting an army, but I'm sure it's not the first of its kind. It also seems odd to complain about na.zis when the world of 40k is full of that and worse with the forces of chaos, necrons, etc. There are a ton of evil bad guy armies.

:) OH yes! in Flames of War a WW2 tabletop game you have the Americans, Russian, Brits & Colonial forces Vs the Germans (& I think there is a Japanese Army choice too if I remember)
Some of the folks in our Games Club play it & its a great game. Smaller scale than 40K but not as small as Epic.

[eagleboy7259]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a lot of historical wargames involve people collecting a na.zi army? It's not quite the same as converting an army, but I'm sure it's not the first of its kind. It also seems odd to complain about na.zis when the world of 40k is full of that and worse with the forces of chaos, necrons, etc. There are a ton of evil bad guy armies.

(It was a pretty big thread I think it popped up on DakkaDakka or Librium Online but I'll try to say what course that thread took)

We'll of course they do, the difference being that they are historical war games and 40k is obviously not. Na.zism along with the actives undertaken during the third Reich are kind of a black eye in history, not only to Germany but to many other people as well. However you can't really play a game that tries historically accurate without including the na.zis into it where that isn't really an issue in 40k. See the na.zis in those other games represent the na.zis, and every moral wrong that they stood for and enacted but what does a 40k IG na.zi represent? or why would you want to model your toy soldiers after them? Sure you might have a vested interest in both WWII and modeling but people will more likely connect you to either sympathizing with na.zist beliefs or the actions they undertook or something connecting you to na.zism in some way no matter how small. Almost like you were celebrating the history of a people that enacted horrible wrongs on others above and beyond the horrors of war. Its those things that make people baulk at an idea like that.

To preface this before people throw this on me for being a model game bigot or something, I personally believe you can do whatever you like with your mini's, these are models to be used in a game a little more. Also I am a history major and a rational person and I am in no way saying that if you use na.zi like models in the game does that mean that you are somehow connected to the na.zis

[Magos]

Is Na.Zi censored or something? If so, thats rather weird?

Anyway, I wish that was an option with Penal Legion....

[Renegade]

(It was a pretty big thread I think it popped up on DakkaDakka or Librium Online but I'll try to say what course that thread took)

We'll of course they do, the difference being that they are historical war games and 40k is obviously not. Na.zism along with the actives undertaken during the third Reich are kind of a black eye in history, not only to Germany but to many other people as well. However you can't really play a game that tries historically accurate without including the na.zis into it where that isn't really an issue in 40k. See the na.zis in those other games represent the na.zis, and every moral wrong that they stood for and enacted but what does a 40k IG na.zi represent? or why would you want to model your toy soldiers after them? Sure you might have a vested interest in both WWII and modeling but people will more likely connect you to either sympathizing with na.zist beliefs or the actions they undertook or something connecting you to na.zism in some way no matter how small. Almost like you were celebrating the history of a people that enacted horrible wrongs on others above and beyond the horrors of war. Its those things that make people baulk at an idea like that.

To preface this before people throw this on me for being a model game bigot or something, I personally believe you can do whatever you like with your mini's, these are models to be used in a game a little more. Also I am a history major and a rational person and I am in no way saying that if you use na.zi like models in the game does that mean that you are somehow connected to the na.zis

Well that makes theme's with any kind of RL historic link difficult, as people have done lots of rather nasty things to each other. Russians, Na.zi Germans (not all Germans were na.zis, Rommel for example) Romans,Holy Roman Empire, British, American, Japanese, Turkey and the list goes on. Imho, anyone who takes offence at the way little plastic men are painted in a sci-fi setting, really does need help.

Maybe they will bring them back in a =][= codex?

[Aldramelech]

Is Na.Zi censored or something? If so, thats rather weird?

Anyway, I wish that was an option with Penal Legion....

Yes. People were using the word to insult other people and I for one find being called it extremely insulting. Hence the word is censored.

[Kahoolin]

My squats had little hoverboards made out of styrofoam. I copied them from GW illustrations, so I painted smiley faces, kill slogans, and other 80's comic book crap all over them.

They looked totally "rad."

[eagleboy7259]

Well that makes theme's with any kind of RL historic link difficult, as people have done lots of rather nasty things to each other. Russians, Na.zi Germans (not all Germans were na.zis, Rommel for example) Romans,Holy Roman Empire, British, American, Japanese, Turkey and the list goes on. Imho, anyone who takes offence at the way little plastic men are painted in a sci-fi setting, really does need help.

Maybe they will bring them back in a =][= codex?

LMAO well I totally agree with you. That asides, the thing with the na.zis is they are relatively easy to distinguish and somewhat modern. It would be considered a failure of our schools if a child went through and couldn't atleast recognize WWII and na.zi Germany. Whereas the auto genocide by Pol Pot or the Ra.pe of Nanjing aren't exactly first hand knowledge to the majority of people.

Even though its weird for people to get upset about something like that, I'm just saying its out there and I'd be careful. Just think of the TV ads that went out a while ago telling people not to say gay as an insult anymore and the ridiculousness and PC align itself.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Too soon.

[Subject Keyword]

Is Na.Zi censored or something? If so, thats rather weird?


Let me test which words are censored...

**** *** fanny **** goddammit ****er knickers ***** pig****er ******* vagina **** Magic Player **** ****ing ****head tits

Hmmm...

[ColCorbane]

oh, a game of guess the censored words .....

[Kahoolin]

The filter is obviously an American. You can't say *** but you can say ARSE.

[Subject Keyword]

Why can you say tits and goddammit but not
N
A
Z
I
?
?
?

Makes no sense.
I'm going to put the words "tits" into every post now.




tits.

[Bedroom General]

I will be using suicide bombers as proxies for demo charge IG, I picked up two models ages ago (pre 2001) from another fig co. and always intended to use them, just still working on non guard projects. As far as taste goes, yeah I could see people getting offended, but most of the guys in my gaming group are opened minded enough about a game where commissars shoot officers in the head, Daemons make champions go pop and eldar slavers steal people to torture to death, to just roll with it. I've dealt with closed minds before in similar regard about elements of my hobby. If I wanted to play Hippie Bowl or Warhammer Fantasy interior decoration, I would have made that choice.

Re: the WW2 Germans, WW2 Russians are what Vals are based on, both were dictatorships ruthlessly controlled and enforced, both did very bad things. The Tallarn (iban) were allied to US when vs Russia. Either you choose to exclude everything due to some warped oxymoron (politically correct lmfao! Its like fun run, or positive discrimination)
or you take a deep breath, look into the eyes (probably dodgily painted with one pupil bigger than the other) of your favourite model and say: "It's only a game innit, nobody really dies."

Watch the news, we humans are narrow minded, self aggrandizing, holier than thou commentators on every facet of "other people" until we do the same thing. Terrorist = freedom fighters if they win, or on your side. Slipknot had it right: People = s**t.

It's only a game. Shoot anyone on a console lately?;)

[eagleboy7259]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/video/southparkmohammed.jpg

"aww gee thanks muhammad for this salmon helmet!"

Sorry it just reminded me of the South Park Cartoon Wars Episode that was on the other night :D - Kyle "either its all okay to make fun of or none of it is"

[Skragger]

Does anybody remember Gene Stealer Cults? With their badarse limos? I remember in the WD it says "You can use a 1/16th die cast toy car to represent the limo"