How to build an Apocalypse list

[johnnyfoodmaster]

Hey all! I hope this isn't in the wrong forum.

Anyways, in February, I'm going to be playing my first Apocalypse game. I plan on playing Salamander Space Marines cuz I have lots of em. I know from looking at pics from last year and talking to people that there'll be LOTS of superheavies and titans and stompas and all that stuff.

My question is: How do I go about building an Apocalypse list? What should I include? I plan on fielding lots of tactical marines, but aside from that I don't even know where to start.

Do any of you guys have advice for a first Apocalypse game? It's going to be 4000pts per person and the early thought is that there'll be about 40 people. :)

[Herald of Nurgle]

First question... what the deuce are your rules? Are you keeping to the standard mission rules and only allowing Troops to score, for example. You need to have those in mind whenever you plan a list.

Any force you field in Apocalypse will (ideally) have 1/8 of its force composed of Superheavies, 3/8 composed of tanks, 1/8 composed of Elite infantry, 1/8 composed of elite characters, and 1/4 composed of Scoring Units/DS Fodder. For example, Salamanders might take:
- Super Heavies: Baneblade variants
- Elite Infantry: TH/SS Termies, led by a Terminator Captain allowing for Titanhammer Squads
- Elite Characters: He'stan, Masters of the Forge, Dreadnoughts
- Scoring Units: Battle Companies
- Tanks: Land Raider Redeemers, so on

Then, there are variations due to assets...
- Forces with Flank March/Careful Planning need to be fast - such as Bikers - or hard - such as Terminators or Vanguard Vets
- Forces with Stronghold Stratagems need to be defensive, or force the opponent to come to them
- Forces with Vortex Grenades or Orbital Bombardments need to be aggressive, or force the opponent onto the back foot

Be sure to define a) rules and b) any unallowed assets (Jammers etc)

Time limits and breaks need to be well planned, and any larders need to be filled before the game begins.

Remember to have fun, kick ***, and take names (hopefully not Florencefoodmaster)

[Dark_Templar]

Visit this link:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=147766&st=50

Do what this guy did. Basically Buy everything you could find, ever, and make up 50,000points worth of Marines and choose whatever the hell you want ;)

p.s. He also has 50k worth of IG and 50k worth of Orks. It is a good thread to look through.

[mathhammer]

I work of the thought this is a standard wide open game of Apoc and you have access to what ever toys you need.

The first rule:
1) Skull **** your opponent in turn one.

This is Apoc there are no force charts anything goes, 2 tyranid bio titans, 3 warhounds, A baneblade loaded down with carnifexs.

2) Know thy enemy

Read the Apoc rule book, but not your part read their part. Ask yourself how can I stop this.

3) Expect 7" S D templates rain.

They are bringing the toys, 50 lascannons, check, 10 SD 7" templates check. Every formation check.

Here is 3 examples of "fun" list we thought up one night.
1) tick tick boom, 300 spore mines (about a 100 of each type)
2) Eldar seer council worth about 2000 points. (it killed about 5000 points lost 3 models)
3) Incomming - One Inquistor + 41 Orbital Strikes.

This is toy fest, If you arrive expecting to play 40k on a larger scale you will not have fun. Also talk to your allies try to build your list so they help one another. Like 27 oblits in a baneblade. (there is a great oblit formation)

[Morgrim]

Ally with some DE. Watching someone's face when the titan hunter raiders swoop in and demolish them before they can take a shot is priceless, and good if their offense was far too heavily build around pie plates.

[Duke]

What you bring to an apoc battle obviously depends heavily on what you have.

I have noticed that even for beginners there are a few things you can bring easily.

1. MAsters of the chapter: take 4 'captains,' and put them in a squad... the models can even be Sgt. who have been given a 'field promotion,' lol

2. Exterminatus: As was mentioned before take one Inquisitor and 4000 points worth of orbital strikes

I have about 25000 worth of Eldar and almost as much Blood Angels and I can run every formation that those two armies can produce (I think) but I know that I have the most fun when I bring a list that has a theme around it. For example, an all drop pod battle company or the Master of the Forges' personal armoured column of Land Raiders... etc.

Here are some more general notes.

1. Fear strength "D"... It will ruin everything.
2. Infantry die in droves, use cover. 100 marines die just as fast as 10 marines do in a regular game.
3. spread out your units. It sucks when your entire army gets wipped out because some Eldar player dropped a titan and a sunstorm squadron on your little area of the board (4 st D large blast templates + one 10" St D pieplate.)
4. have fun, casue crap dies fast, and Apoc. isn't fair.

Duke

[Subject Keyword]

Ooh. Building a list? My buddies and I usually just take every model we own, pimp them out, tally the points, even out each side by supplementing with titans, and then try to figure out how to build a table big enough for 80,000 points of models.:)
Take a long look at different formations, and look at which units will benefit more from your armies strategic assets.
Other than that, I would suggest taking an impossibly powerful, overpriced, unbalanced unit of legendary heroes. It doesn't feel like Apocalypse to me unless the Court of the Young King is assaulting the Tetragon of Darkeness while Logan Grimnar, Commissar Yarrick, Ghazghkull Thraka, The Nightbringer, and Scarbrand the Exiled are all duking it out in the middle of the field while giant templates of pain rain around them.

[plasticaddict]

How do you want to build your list? You need to step back and take a look at several things first.

1. What, if any, house rules will you be using? (i.e. limit on super heavies or formations, restricted assets, etc.)

2. What do you have to bring to the table? (what models do you have avaliable to play and what formations can you benefit from)

3. Who will be your teammates and what will they be bringing?

4. How long do you plan on playing?

5.What do you enjoy playing in a normal game?

6.Will this be a "I have the biggest/coolest/most expensive toy" fest or a theamed game?

After you have looked at all of the above you will have an idea of what to bring to the table. I have played in over fifty Apocalypse games and brought as many lists. I brought eight Baneblades to one game and the next one I brought 5000 points of IG infantry with no armor at all. I have played with twenty-one players on one side and eighteen on the other. I have also played one on one with 15k each on the table. Talk to the people you will be playing with to get a feel of how these games normally go and what to expect from your group. After you have done that you will have a better idea of what to bring to the table.

I can tell you that there is no "best list" for a game except for the one that you brought to the table and had fun playing.

[Sangre]

I figured the point of Apocalypse was simple.

When choosing a list, include everything.

[MajorSoB]

Your question is as ambiguous as "What color should I paint my army?" but here are a few things to consider when making your choices?

1) What is the point total that each side is taking? In our club we predetermine this since taking extra stratagems seems to unbalance the game real fast when uneven point totals occur.

2) What type of models generally are taken. If your opponents show up with several flyers and some titans, you better have something that can take care of them or get ready to start sweeping up your models with a broom and dustpan.

3) Look at the Apocalypse formations and see if you can build any of them with the models you own. Some of them are pretty fun to play.

4) What is the goal of your game. When I play with friends are goal is to have fun, with any type of winning a distance second. We want to see epic battles, play with our big toys and have fun. Some people are far more competitive. I would recommend you play what you like regardless of how burly it is, but that is just my opinion.

5) Are you limited to painted models or can you bring anything? We have tried to place a painted restriction in our games just for looks, and as a motivation to keep people working on the hobby aspect. You should do what you like, but see if they require paint when choosing what to bring.

Good luck, have fun and enjoy the game. Post a batrep when you are finished.

[Mystery.Shadow]

Here are a few Apocalypse Picture Albums you can browse thru to get some ideas of what goes on and what Army fields what:

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/Apocalypse/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/BFT/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/19kApocalypse/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/Apoc121309/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/Apoc5/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/ApocPlanetStrike/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/Battle+For+Terra+2/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/ApocalypseHalloween09/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/AnotherApocalypseGame/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/LaborDayApocalypse2008/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/OrkTownApocalypse/

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/Apoc2/

Enjoy!

[The West Coast Knight]

OK So to be Specific I would take the Chapter Masters going to cost you around 1200 or more points of your 4000 but give you lots of cool Strategic assets Ambush is awesome in big games.
Line breaker squadron is great but you should take more like 4 or 5 Vindicators to keep the big boom going.
The Suppression Force is good to just remember to keep your speeder safe or you lose the Unlimited range
For a Super Heavy you could go with a Baneblade but if you want to have more fun try the Predator Assassination Squadron 9 twin linked las cannons I have taken down many Super Heavies with this squadron including Titans.

Then fill out the rest of your 4000 points with lots of troops.

My other favorite is taking the full Space Marine Company then Flank March and make use of the Careful planning from your Chapter Masters and have 105 marines walk on behind your enemy on turn 1.

Have fun in your first Apoc game and good luck.


WCK

[lobster-overlord]

When I first read the Apoc book , I knew it was the rule set for someone like me. I am a modeller/bulider/painter first, and the idea of never being able to field my army was saddening. I could field parts of it if I limited myself to a finite list for a battle, but I could never come up with something that would be winning. Using these rules, I could field anything I wanted (and everything if hte points allowed). If you have 30,000 points of stuff, just bring it all to the table to go nuts.

I personally like to bring a lot of characters to the table.

[Morgrim]

1) Count up all the models in your army.
2) Complain that you don't really get any big expensive toys to jump points costs in a hurry.
3) Wonder if you could kill some big bad demon with a swarming charge of 50 warpbeasts.
4) Cackle.
5) Look innocent.
6) Tally points.
7) Attempt to convince friends to allow you to take WFB lizardmen as something, because even with padding and overloading on wargear and every formation you can field you feel that 2.2k points is fairly unimpressive for Apoc.
8) Take the webway portal stratigic asset.
9) Deepstrike one of you portals somewhere relatively safe and out of the way, one inside the courtyard that is the main objective, and one way over the other side of the board to faciliate running away.
10) Spend the entire game pissing everyone off by waiting until the courtyard is clear, darting through portals and pouncing on the minimal rearguard. When the main armies come back to reclaim it, use portals to run away.
11) When the other players decide to come and camp the safe portal, switch to darting between the two distant portals.
12) When you end up with superheavies stationed at each portal to stop you kiting things up and down the board, laugh as you get stomped and point out that your allies are about to launch the ambush.
13) Get called a gnat.
14) Return the bits of armies you borrowed.



I don't play to win, I play to get called evil by the other players.

[Herald of Nurgle]

1) Count up all the models in your army.
2) Complain that you don't really get any big expensive toys to jump points costs in a hurry.
3) Wonder if you could kill some big bad demon with a swarming charge of 50 warpbeasts.
4) Cackle.
5) Look innocent.
6) Tally points.
7) Attempt to convince friends to allow you to take WFB lizardmen as something, because even with padding and overloading on wargear and every formation you can field you feel that 2.2k points is fairly unimpressive for Apoc.
8) Take the webway portal stratigic asset.
9) Deepstrike one of you portals somewhere relatively safe and out of the way, one inside the courtyard that is the main objective, and one way over the other side of the board to faciliate running away.
10) Spend the entire game pissing everyone off by waiting until the courtyard is clear, darting through portals and pouncing on the minimal rearguard. When the main armies come back to reclaim it, use portals to run away.
11) When the other players decide to come and camp the safe portal, switch to darting between the two distant portals.
12) When you end up with superheavies stationed at each portal to stop you kiting things up and down the board, laugh as you get stomped and point out that your allies are about to launch the ambush.
13) Get called a gnat.
14) Return the bits of armies you borrowed.



I don't play to win, I play to get called evil by the other players.
Damn Straight!

[lobster-overlord]

Since when has "winning" at Apoc ever been a goal?

[Herald of Nurgle]

Since when has "winning" at Apoc ever been a goal?
It isn't about winning... it's about losing a little bit less than everyone else.

[Subject Keyword]

1)I don't play to win, I play to get called evil by the other players.

Wait, you can win Apocalypse? I thought it was just cultivating ground for "AH CAUGHT A FISH! IT WAS THIIIIIIIIIISSS BIG!" stories. You might as well try and catch the wind.

There is only one kind of person who takes Apocalypse deadly serious and gets genuinely upset when they lose:

A virgin.

[RocketRollRebel]

Wait, you can win Apocalypse? I thought it was just cultivating ground for "AH CAUGHT A FISH! IT WAS THIIIIIIIIIISSS BIG!" stories. You might as well try and catch the wind.

There is only one kind of person who takes Apocalypse deadly serious and gets genuinely upset when they lose:

A virgin.

hahaha. Extreme sexual frustration and mini wargaming. Oh boy...

ANYWAY... Apocalypse shouldn't be played in a win at all costs manner. It ruins it. Which is one of my biggest problems with it. The anything goes attitude is a double edged sword. It can be immensely fun if organized properly (BoLS did an excellent article regarding this a little while back) and if the people you are playing with aren't treating it like its a tournament. But with reasonable people, organization and rules it is loads of fun regardless if you win or lose.

p.s the photos look awesome! Huzzah for another blue urban camo IG army! The epicness of Apocalypse is what makes it fun.

[sketchesofpayne]

I play Salamanders myself. When I play Apocalypse with my friends it usually means a 3000-4000 pt per side game with a Baneblade and some fliers on the field. None of us owns a titan or anything. Here's the kind of force I usually bring:

Vulkan He'stan
Jump Chaplain with 10-man Assault squad
Terminator Librarian

2 or 3 Land Raider Redeemers each with a 5-man Assault Terminator squad. Vulkan Rides in one, the librarian in another.

3 Dreadnoughts in drop pods

4 Tactical squads in Rhinos (Powerfist, flamer, multi-melta)

2 Vindicators or Whirlwinds

8 man devastator squad with 4 lascannons

8 man devastator squad with 4 plasma cannons

[Duke]

[QUOTE=RocketRollRebel;42865]hahaha. Extreme sexual frustration and mini wargaming. Oh boy...[QUOTE]


Sorry, but I couldn't stop laughing at this...mostly because its true!

Duke

[johnnyfoodmaster]

Well, I'm deciding to have fun with it and just bring some stuff I like. Here's what I think I'm gonna do (give or take a little):

Salamanders:
Vulkan He'stan in a Land Raider Redeemer
3x Tactical Squad
-2 with Rhinos
-1 with He'stan in the Land Raider
Terminator Titan Hammer Squad
-10 TH/SS Terminators
-Lysander commanding them
Damocles Rhino
Land Raider Ares

Space Wolves
Ragnar with 15 Blood Claws in a Land Raider Crusader
Bjorn the Fellhanded
10 Grey Hunters in a Rhino

There are gonna be about 20 people per side, so I don't have to worry about covering every aspect of the game. I just wanna blow up a Titan. I picked the Wolves cuz I have lots built and I want an excuse to use them and to paint Ragnar. I've already got Bjorn built and painted, so he needs some friends.