Reserves Psychic powers and Scryer's Gaze

[cowboyB]

This post is a question about reserves and psychic powers and when they happen.

According to this post
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?33279-Reserves-and-Psychic-powers/page4

Units not on the board cannot benefit from psychic powers. The logic is there because of how it is written but in game application it doesn't work With Scryer's gaze. RAW is Powers occur simultaneously as coming in from reserve. That cannot be there intent though or they screwed up majorly because no one would be able to benefit from it ever.

Because of Scryer's gaze I'm thinking you can cast spells on units that came in from reserves. That's the most logical answer I can come up with other than GW poor writing. Or maybe I'm supposed to cast it the turn prior for it to work?
Can anyone clarify?

[Sly]

The player whose turn it is can determine the order of "at the same time" events. So he can choose to do a "beginning of turn" action such as bringing a unit in from Reserve before doing another "beginning of turn" action such as using a Psychic power from another unit.

What he cannot do is cast a Blessing or Malediction from a unit that starts the turn in Reserve, because the Psychic Power is manifested at the beginning of that unit's movement phase, and that unit is not on the board at the beginning of its movement phase. But you can bring in a unit from Reserve and cast a Blessing upon it from a different unit, as long as the buffing unit was on the board at the start of the turn so that it was eligible to cast "beginning of movement" powers.

[jifel]

Sly is correct:

Basically: You could cast Scyrers gaze, bring a unit in from reserve and then cast Endurance on that unit. They are simultaneous, therefore the player may decide which he would like to do in what order.

[Tyrendian]

The player whose turn it is can determine the order of "at the same time" events. So he can choose to do a "beginning of turn" action such as bringing a unit in from Reserve before doing another "beginning of turn" action such as using a Psychic power from another unit.

What he cannot do is cast a Blessing or Malediction from a unit that starts the turn in Reserve, because the Psychic Power is manifested at the beginning of that unit's movement phase, and that unit is not on the board at the beginning of its movement phase. But you can bring in a unit from Reserve and cast a Blessing upon it from a different unit, as long as the buffing unit was on the board at the start of the turn so that it was eligible to cast "beginning of movement" powers.

not how I read it, though I see where you´re coming from...
it doesn´t say "beginning of their movement phase", it says "beginning of the movement phase", so I don´t think it´s split into units but rather one time slot for all powers
Scryer´s Gaze still works though, since you can choose which happens first - rolling for reserves or casting powers (in general).
Also, does the unit move in immediately when you roll for it? I think not - that´s still "before the movement phase", while we play it as coming in from reserves being more or less normal movement, which means it also happens in that phase - you just know what will arrive before moving anything, and you will have cast all your powers by the time actual movement starts

As I said, that´s just the way my friends and I read it, and since GW is too dumb to actually write working rules and too lazy to give a care about us players, that´s what we are stuck with...

[John Bower]

I think there must be an assumption of some sort to allow things cast on reserves, you after all cannot assault from reserve even if you just walked on from your own board edge. Something that is open to any other unit on the board already. I think they are likely assumed to have 'force marched' to get on the board at the beginning of the turn. So at the beginning of the turn, you (the player) can choose to cast a power, roll for reserves, cast somebody else's power, then move on to movement of remaining units if you wish. It would be clearer maybe if you did certain things in an order maybe, but it's what separates 40k from Fantasy, where I believe you have a 'magic phase' as well. Really do you want that? A single psychic phase that limits your psykers powers more than currently?

[evilamericorp]

So at the beginning of the turn, you (the player) can choose to cast a power, roll for reserves, cast somebody else's power, then move on to movement of remaining units if you wish

I don't know, having just reread the rules, reserves must be rolled at the beginning of the turn, powers are cast at the beginning of the movement phase. Are these separate things? Is there a "start of the turn phase" that happens before the movement phase?

[John Bower]

FYI, from the GW official FAQs

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

[evilamericorp]

FYI, from the GW official FAQs

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Damn, I wish they would sell a new edition rule book with all the FAQ crap added in. I don't want to have to check a website every time I need to look up a rule.

Or they could just write better rules in the first place...

[John Bower]

Yeah, it would help, but don't give them ideas about a new rulebook every time they update the FAQ's please, GW are expensive enough as is. haha.

[cowboyB]

That's the problem I'm having. The faq states that they do occur "simultaneously". So if they do then how can you cast a power to a model that isn't supposed to be there in the first place. It says you choose what to do first but the main problem is the word "simultaneously". I'll assume it is just a player consensus to allow it to be done. I wish GO was clearer about what to do like warmachine is

[evilamericorp]

That's the problem I'm having. The faq states that they do occur "simultaneously". So if they do then how can you cast a power to a model that isn't supposed to be there in the first place. It says you choose what to do first but the main problem is the word "simultaneously". I'll assume it is just a player consensus to allow it to be done. I wish GO was clearer about what to do like warmachine is

If your question is just about Scrier's gaze, then there is no issue. Your target is the psyker, not the unit off the board. You would not, however, be able to cast a power like endurance on a unit that just arrived from reserve, as once a unit starts moving onto the board, the "start of the movement phase" is over.

[John Bower]

If your question is just about Scrier's gaze, then there is no issue. Your target is the psyker, not the unit off the board. You would not, however, be able to cast a power like endurance on a unit that just arrived from reserve, as once a unit starts moving onto the board, the "start of the movement phase" is over.

Not really, as you have to move reserves on before your actual movement. So it's still 'at the beginning' technically. You could choose to move them on then cast your powers if you wish. At least that's how I've always seen it played.

[evilamericorp]

Not really, as you have to move reserves on before your actual movement. So it's still 'at the beginning' technically. You could choose to move them on then cast your powers if you wish. At least that's how I've always seen it played.

The rules state that the rolling for reserves happens at the beginning, not the movement. Once you begin moving (which you have to do for newly arrived units first), the start of the phase is over.