To Kill a Daemon Prince

[Blackcloud6]

My Tau (second time I've played them) faced a Daemon Prince the other night and I couldn't kill it. I almost got it and figure you need to throw a lot of dice but the rolls didn't go my way.

What are tactics (any army) to deal with this nasty creature?

[Tyrendian]

uh... be a Grey Knight I guess? :p

I assume it was a flying one? walking I really don´t see how it would have caused Tau much trouble... shoot it with small guns (in your case, Markerlights are ideal...) first and hope it drops out of the sky, at which point it´s basically mince meat for the rest of your army...

[Blackcloud6]

uh... be a Grey Knight I guess? :p

I assume it was a flying one? walking I really don´t see how it would have caused Tau much trouble... shoot it with small guns (in your case, Markerlights are ideal...) first and hope it drops out of the sky, at which point it´s basically mince meat for the rest of your army...

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, it was a flyer. I got the Skyfire Warlord trait by luck shot and hit the thing with a rail rifle but it didn't drop out of the sky. But if the Tau does not get Skyfire, and it is likely they won't, what can they do, or any army that does not have Sky fire, to knock it down?

[Chaoschrist]

As a Chaos player (daemons and CSM)... I don't see a problem; they're Toughness 6 and with Tau you're rolling 5's (which already is a notch up from most armies that need to roll 6's) to wound. And at best it's a 3+ save, which is the same as half of the 40k armies.

I suppose the problem with it is that they often have wings and get in combat relatively fast. Supporting fire might help you out, since princes want to get in combat, that's what they're good at.

By the way, you can also try to Markerlight it out of the air when it's flying. Pathfinders might help there, heh.

As for skyfire; it seems skyfire is a bit of a must now, that or run your own flyers. There's always that one guy that brings Necron flyers, Heldrakes or in your case daemon princes. From what I remember, didn't Tau have a upgrade on the crisis suits for skyfire? Might be worth considering if you have that much problems with a flying prince (or multiples)

[Blackcloud6]

As a Chaos player (daemons and CSM)... I don't see a problem; they're Toughness 6 and with Tau you're rolling 5's (which already is a notch up from most armies that need to roll 6's) to wound. And at best it's a 3+ save, which is the same as half of the 40k armies.

I suppose the problem with it is that they often have wings and get in combat relatively fast. Supporting fire might help you out, since princes want to get in combat, that's what they're good at.

By the way, you can also try to Markerlight it out of the air when it's flying. Pathfinders might help there, heh.

As for skyfire; it seems skyfire is a bit of a must now, that or run your own flyers. There's always that one guy that brings Necron flyers, Heldrakes or in your case daemon princes. From what I remember, didn't Tau have a upgrade on the crisis suits for skyfire? Might be worth considering if you have that much problems with a flying prince (or multiples)

Thanks, yes I get the 5+ part and the 3+ save part, but this guy seemed very tough and I was wondering if there were any tricks. Yes, Skyfire is important now and one has to find a way to bring it into the army each time. I almost brought an Aegis and Quad gun but decided on pathfinders instead... du'oh! I'll look in the CODEX and see about the Suits being able to get Skyfire.

This is all part of the fun of 40K: learning how to best your armies.

[AlmostMercury]

You can definitely put sky fire on Crisis suits and Broadsides. It's the Velocity Tracker support system for 20 points.

[Blackcloud6]

You can definitely put sky fire on Crisis suits and Broadsides. It's the Velocity Tracker support system for 20 points.

Cool, thanks. This is likely one of the things I overlooked... sigh... learning a new army.

[-Tom-]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, it was a flyer. I got the Skyfire Warlord trait by luck shot and hit the thing with a rail rifle but it didn't drop out of the sky. But if the Tau does not get Skyfire, and it is likely they won't, what can they do, or any army that does not have Sky fire, to knock it down?

Double check you were using the rules for grounding FMC's correctly... they only need to be hit to take a grounding check, not hit and wounded. Even if you're needing to roll 6's to hit, if you can get enough hits in, you ought to be able to bring it down.

[Sly]

Double check you were using the rules for grounding FMC's correctly... they only need to be hit to take a grounding check, not hit and wounded. Even if you're needing to roll 6's to hit, if you can get enough hits in, you ought to be able to bring it down.

Missilesides hit 30% of the time even without Skyfire. Give them Monster Hunter with the PenChip, and a squad of 3 plus 6 missile drones can kill a FMC in air in one good salvo (add in the Quad Cannon with a Gun Drone shooting it for extra firepower).

Another option is to fire lots of Pulse Rifles at it and once it fails a Grounding test, pound it.

A third option is the Skyray... its Markerlights have Skyfire, so hit it with those and then Missilesides can really blow it off the map.

[Blackcloud6]

Double check you were using the rules for grounding FMC's correctly... they only need to be hit to take a grounding check, not hit and wounded. Even if you're needing to roll 6's to hit, if you can get enough hits in, you ought to be able to bring it down.

We played it right, he passed his grounding check. :(

[Blackcloud6]

Missilesides hit 30% of the time even without Skyfire. Give them Monster Hunter with the PenChip, and a squad of 3 plus 6 missile drones can kill a FMC in air in one good salvo (add in the Quad Cannon with a Gun Drone shooting it for extra firepower).

Ah, good advice, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for.


Another option is to fire lots of Pulse Rifles at it and once it fails a Grounding test, pound it.

Yeah, I did this on the Overwatch when he went after a Firewarrior squad with the Ethereal nearby adding in the extra fire element and supporting fire unit I had over 50 dice, I got a bunch of hits, with a good number of wounds and he saved them all! All I needed was two more unsaved wounds and he would be a goner. :(


A third option is the Skyray... its Markerlights have Skyfire, so hit it with those and then Missilesides can really blow it off the map.

Have to get one... as the unbuilt pile grows high. sigh

[Tyrendian]

We played it right, he passed his grounding check. :(

OK so he passed the first... what about the second? and the third? and the umpteenth? It´s not like Tau lacked in units that have guns to shoot at him... just keep at it...

[Blackcloud6]

OK so he passed the first... what about the second? and the third? and the umpteenth? It´s not like Tau lacked in units that have guns to shoot at him... just keep at it...

In his very next movement he swooped down, landed and stayed on the ground assaulting. He entered late in the game as reserves.

[celas]

You want an answer to -any- flying monstrous creature? Riptide with a Heavy Burst Cannon, Velocity Tracker, and Early Warning Override. Novacharge the burst cannon and it -will- eat just about anything. Fusion Blasters are my go to secondary weapon. Great for inflicting that last wound and adds some nice versatility to boot!

Last game I had against 'nids (old 'dex) the one Riptide was definitely the star of the show. Ate a Flyrant in a single turn, overwatched another into oblivion....was pretty awesome.

[-Tom-]

In his very next movement he swooped down, landed and stayed on the ground assaulting. He entered late in the game as reserves.

I guess that makes all the difference if there's not so much left to kill him. On the other hand, it's also reducing the use of the FMC if it doesn't enter till late. Maybe it would reach a point where it would be equally worth considering a plan to how best to just ignore it if it's going to come into play late on.

In a game a while ago, I had a friend bring a Demon prince right up to me in the first turn. It was the capture the relic scenario so he was wanting to use it as a shield to keep me occupied while he nabbed the relic and started moving back. I didn't have anything with sky fire, but 2 squads of 10 guardians sitting next to 2 wave serpents. So, that was 40 shots from the guardians, which were only St4 and needing 6's to hit, (but any 6's to wound would be AP2). The Wave Serpents had twin linked scatter lasers, shuriken cannons and the serpent shield too. I also had a few rangers tucked away in a wood, along with Illich as HQ choice. I decided to shoot with the guardians and rangers first, with the low St from the Guardians, and no AP from the rangers, I figured that I could just make him take a load of grounding checks, hopefully meaning the bigger guns of the wave serpents and wraithknight could do more damage with their stronger weapons, not needing the 6's to hit. It worked out okay... demon prince was gone by the end of my first turn and he wasn't all that much of a speed bump.

[Boscolamb]

My Tau (second time I've played them) faced a Daemon Prince the other night and I couldn't kill it. I almost got it and figure you need to throw a lot of dice but the rolls didn't go my way.

What are tactics (any army) to deal with this nasty creature?

Ha, ha, ha!!! Having watched this game the other night all I can say is (in my best James Bond villainesque voice), "Ah, Mr. Blackcloud, we expect you to die!"

Our buddy Mike, will be tickled by this thread posted by you. :D

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm curious to know what the Daemon Prince had on it? Usually they will be good psykers, and the Tau are usually screwed against good psyker action, especially powers taking advantage of low leadership.

But I defeated Tau, Dark Eldar/Eldar, and then Eldar last Saturday with all Khorne Daemons and a Nurgle Grinder. The Bloodthirster killed 2 Riptides in the first game (Axe of Khorne...CHOP!).

Typically I have great luck with Flesh Hounds and Jugger-Heralds vs Tau. They Daemon Princes can most of the time succeed in getting there and killing something or two somethings, but the supporting fire and Riptides almost always end them.

And Daemon Princes are only Toughness 5, not 6. Greater Daemons are T6 w 5 wounds (except Great Unclean Ones at T7 and 6 wounds, 7 for Ku'Gath but nobody uses him).

Definitely force the grounding tests, with anything. If you've got other fast units moving towards you on the ground, you may want to hit them hard, so choose to blast them with the Riptide blasts rather than trying to Skyfire the FMCs. We fail the tests 1/3 of the time so after 3 units hit it, odds are it'll be Grounded and everything else can unload on it. Or if you have a decent Ally, assault it then!

[The Silent King]

Skyrays.
As soon as they can, just FIRE ZE MISSILES at something and it'll die, often winning first blood. Then just roam around with your skyfire markerlights everywhere, lighting up princes before broadsides knock 'em down!

[Boscolamb]

As a Chaos player (daemons and CSM)... I don't see a problem; they're Toughness 6 and with Tau you're rolling 5's (which already is a notch up from most armies that need to roll 6's) to wound.

We played Tau vs. Daemon Princes again last night. Blackcloud6 could not locate that rule that allows them to wound on a 5 (rather than a 6 like normal). Can someone point out the ability or special rule that allows this?

[dreadtanker]

As a chaos player I can tell you I have made the mistake of thinking mark of nurgle adds +1 toughness to my deamon prince making him T6. This is WRONG because it is not actually a mark like for all my nurgly troops. Deamons associated with nurgle are only T5 with shrouded. Unless he had biomancy (can they get that? I don't run mine as a psyker) he should never be above T5 which means your wounding on fours minimum with tau weaponary

[Blackcloud6]

As a chaos player I can tell you I have made the mistake of thinking mark of nurgle adds +1 toughness to my deamon prince making him T6. This is WRONG because it is not actually a mark like for all my nurgly troops. Deamons associated with nurgle are only T5 with shrouded. Unless he had biomancy (can they get that? I don't run mine as a psyker) he should never be above T5 which means your wounding on fours minimum with tau weaponary

I think this could be the issue.

[Anggul]

Yeah, if he rolls Iron Arm on Biomancy he can increase his toughness, but otherwise he should be easy for you to wound.