Tyranids 1750pts tournament build.

[Martyn Powell]

Ladies and Gents,

Could I please ask you to look over and assess my list below. It needs to be in by tomorrow in time for the tournament.

Tyrant - 250
Lash Whip and Bonesword, Wings, Heavy Venom Cannon, Toxin Sacs

Tyrant - 220
Wings, HVC

3 Warriors - 100
Venom Cannon
3 Warriors - 100
Venom Cannon
3 Warriors - 100
Venom Cannon

1 Venomthrope - 45
3 Zoanthropes - 150

Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

3 Biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170
Mawloc - 140

Aegis - 85
Quadgun

1750.

Idea is that exocrine mans the gun with venomthrope hiding behind that and the zoanthropes along with the biovores. This gives me a fairly solid firebase with lots of AP2 and AP3 out to 24" and skyfire/intercept out to 48" along with some lovely S4 AP4 Barrages from the biovores providing that all important pinning.

Plan for the tyrants is to either swoop them on for turn 2 along with the harpy's or perhaps deep strike and hope I don't scatter. either way they will be up on the enemies line however the reason for the HVC's is that is how they are modelled, which may provide me with some nice anti-vehicle ranged weapons.

Warriors are going to most likely plod forward using as much cover as possible.

Let me know what you think, good or bad.

[This Dave]

The only real problem I can see is with only 3 small Troops choices it might be tough for you to hold objectives.

[xsquidz]

My thoughts on your list.

The aegis with quad gun is 100 points, not 85. Either seperate the zoans into 2 squads to spead synapse around plus they only roll for 1 extra power per squad, not model, so you get an extra roll for a good power. Or keep them together and take another 1 man unit of venomthropes, either drop a zoan or something else. Finally, you are limiting your tyrants IMO by the weapon loadouts you have them with, I know you said they are built that way (so rebuild them! :) ), but for what you want them going after in CC, they don't need whips or swords. The HVC can't shoot at enemy flyers (neither can the harpies guns) so you are limiting your ability to deal with flyer lists. I would also switch the venom cannons to barbed strangers because they are large blasts that cause pinning so can be great vs troops.

[Gleipnir]

Well if the objective is to simply to hold your own deployment area it may work for you, otherwise I agree with the above posts about lack of troops, May even want to put at least 2 warrior broods into reserve with Outflank given to two of them via Hive Commander on the Tyrants.

As mentioned the Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad is 100 with Lascannon is 85

Most opposing fliers should be capable of decimating this list just because apart from one round of fire from the Icarus its full of blast weapons which leaves only your exorcine and zoanthropes to fire back a limited amount of attacks at a limited range.

[evilamericorp]

In an objective game, all someone would need to do is kill 9 models and you can't win. Now that Tervigons are garbage, Tyranids need their swarms of little dudes in every game.

[AdamHarry]

In an objective game, all someone would need to do is kill 9 models and you can't win. Now that Tervigons are garbage, Tyranids need their swarms of little dudes in every game.

Agreed. If you swapped out 1 squad of warriors with an equal number of guants, you'd at least have some numbers to camp on an objective.

[iNcontroL]

Kind of a very mediocre list in the sense that it doesn't really do any 1 thing very well. Harpy units are to aid in assault with some decent options for AA (venom cannon is ok here) but you don't really have a CC army or anything you are trying to do that with. Horde? Nope. Very small unit count and while warriors are.. probably avoid at all cost units as your sole scoring units this is a major red flag. Biovores are good. Exocrine is decent but you have too few units to ever really hope that ends up doing anything at all. If I am your opponent I ignore it until it's around 24' out and then I blow it up which gives me 1-2 turns to pretend it doesn't exist. Flyrants are ok but I don't like the venom cannon on one. Either dual brainleech or maybe make a case for a h2h flyrant but don't try and do both.

[Martyn Powell]

Cool cheers for all the feedback guys... i've only managed two games so far with the new book.

What i'll do for the tournament is just proxy the weapons and rebuild later...

If i drop all the additions and go for dual brainleech on both that would free up the 15pts on the aegis i miscounted.

I do like the amount of pinning shots nidz chuck out... not exactly sure what to use as troops... i guess i could go with a mix of gants and gaunts.

And spreading the zoans into two squads is a good idea... or maybe dropping 1 in favour of another venomthrope.

How do you guys feel about a unit of warriors and some infiltrating/outflanking stealers?

[Martyn Powell]

Re-write as below....

Flyrant - 230
Wings TL-Brainleech

Flyrant - 230
Wings TL-Brainleech

10 Termagants - 40
Spike rifles
15 Termagants - 60
Spike Rifles
15 Hormagaunts - 75
15 Hormagaunts - 75

2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Zoanthropes - 100
1 Zoanthrope - 100

Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

3 Biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170
Mawloc - 140

Aegis with Quadgun - 100 (Correct points this time :D)

1750.

Everything rushes while biovores, the single zoan, exocrine and venoms bunker down in the aegis. Exocrine manning the quad. Hopefully this is better now to go and play test it against Iron hands.

[Tynskel]

In an objective game, all someone would need to do is kill 9 models and you can't win. Now that Tervigons are garbage, Tyranids need their swarms of little dudes in every game.

Tervigons are not garbage. They just aren't Over Powered.

[Martyn Powell]

Tervigons have their usage as being back field troop poopers but for what they can do I feel they are overpriced. The troop tax is through the roof now and you'll be spending 315pts as a minimum to field just 1 as a troops choice!!!

I play tested my above list and found that the way I deployed and the way I failed 3 reserve rolls on turn 2 (only 1 harpy came on out of all my FMC's) it really allowed my opponent to focus on other things. By turn 3 I had no synapse which really slowed the game down and my troops choices were nearly all gone (by the end of the game I had 7 termagants left).

The game ended on turn 6 with only 1 marine, 1 drop pod and 1 immobilized LS Typhoon, however his 1 marine was holding his objective (emperor's will) and he had first blood. My Termagants were not able to reach my objective but I had linebreaker and slay the warlord... I had both my flyrants, the exocrine and some biovores along with the termagants left. It took until turn 4 for me to really start taking units off the board.

Loving how maneuverable my armies heavy hitters are... the flyrants for example... really easy to jump round the back and get side or rear armour.

Mawloc however killed 3 bikes and then bumped his head twice on an attack bike... rolled a 1 on the mishap... great!

So my list has changed slightly.

Flyrants - 250
wings, tl-BL hive commander
Flyrants - 250
wings, tl-BL hive commander

30 termagants - 120
30 termagants - 120
3 warriors - 110
barbed strangler, deathspitters

2 venomthropes - 90
2 zoanthropes - 100
1 zoanthrope - 50

harpy - 135
harpy - 135

exocrine - 170
3 biovores - 120

aegis with quadgun - 100.

1750.

termagants are outflanking with hive commander... warriors hiding behind defence line with exocrine a zoan biovores and venom.

I think most armies will struggle to deal with 60 termagants coming on at the side of their deployment zones... but we'll see tournament is on saturday I'll let you know how it goes :)

[Gleipnir]

I would suggest investing in devourers for at least some of your termagants, for the price on an additional gant you triple its firepower and you can always place those models behind a grouping of standard gants that take most of the return fire, while the flyers are capable dropping down and assaulting vehicle side and rear armor, you will want as many shots as possible hitting MEQ targets holding objectives that the biovores simply can't eliminate, synapse may continue to be an issue if you lose your flyrants.

If you are just looking for a unit to man an Icarus Quad gun, why not slap down a 55 point bunker with a 50 point gun emplaced on the top, can put an Alpha Warrior attached to the biovores inside to fire the gun the synapse footprint would be half your backfield and free up the exorcine for moving his firepower forward, as an added bonus makes the biovores a lot less vulnerable to weapons ignoring cover and no longer have to worry about the gun emplacement being targeted as debris, kinda makes the venomthropes/warriors less nessecary between the points spent on second flyrant and those you can either grab another 2 big monsters or Hive Guards or extra troops/upgrades

[This Dave]

Also, I believe The Harpies can start the game on the board if you want since they're FMCS and not Flyers. Not only does this avoid the bad Reserve rolls but you might be able to gank the enemy AA without it getting an Interceptor shot off at them.

[Martyn Powell]

Also, I believe The Harpies can start the game on the board if you want since they're FMCS and not Flyers. Not only does this avoid the bad Reserve rolls but you might be able to gank the enemy AA without it getting an Interceptor shot off at them.

Yes and no... to this one. Yes for being correct throughout and no because I've tried it and the enemy focus fire them while they are on the ground (game against twinseer eldar I lost 2 harpies and a crone in turn 1).

Flying Monstrous Creatures (FMC) can choose to deploy 1 of two ways... from reserve where they arrive from turn 2 onwards with an appropriate reserve roll of sufficient value or they can start on the board.

The pros and cons of starting on the board...
Pros:-
No reserve rolls
More targets for the enemy, so a poor opponent will spread their fire out
Instant access to their firepower
Act like jump infantry (so move over objects, 12" move etc.)
Can charge a target on turn 1 (if for example something deepstrikes near enough)

Cons:-
Have to start gliding (act like jump infantry) meaning everything hits at normal ballistic skill (unless it has skyfire only).
Cannot use special rules such as vector strike or spore mine cysts


So depending on the army and type of list you are facing will depend on how many of your FMC's will survive... trust me they will be priority one for any army.

As for my list I do actually like the bunker idea with the prime and biovores... *GRABS STRONGHOLD ASSAULT BOOK* So depending on what I would go for... Firestorm Redoubt with quad icarus is nice... but battlecannons :D and obviously magos machine spirit upgrade for 4+ hits on everything.

[Martyn Powell]

So a friendly game against a friend with his Crimson Fists...

He had 2 tactical squads, 2 sternguard squads, 1 dev cent with gravs and attached Inquisitor, 1 Assault Terminators (TH+SS), aegis with quadgun and 4 lascannon devestator squad and Pedro in with the assault terminators.

Hammer and Anvil, Big Guns Never Tire... I get first turn.

Start all my FMC's on the ground in glide mode, turn 1 movement I swoop them 24" (yes you can do this, they just have to start on the table in glide mode it's a risk if you don't get first turn or they seize.)

End my FMC's 1" away from squads, open up with all my units put both sternguard squads down to 5 each and a couple of backline tacticals, 1 dev centurion gone. All his units hold firm despite 3 morale checks and quite a few pinning checks...
His turn 1 it all changed.... I had my Flyrants on the flanks with the harpy's in the middle. From my left to my right... Flyrant (warlord) takes 3 boltgun hits from tactical squad rapid firing... saves all, fails grounding isn't wounded, both sternguard squads then open fire with hellfire and splat for First blood and Slay the Warlord. Harpy 1 takes hits from a tactical squad, fails its grounding test doesn't wound itself... get munched by Devestator centurions. Harpy 2, takes 3 wounds from the quad gun (even with dive), fails its grounding test, gets charged by the assault terminators 3 wounds all saved and splat goes a harpy.

So I was 3/4 FMC's down by turn 1... yay for the grounded rule (seriously why so much love for flyers yet so much hate for FMC's?)

Turn 2 termagants (both come on) outflank right side of the board... right next to his devestators and quadgun... you would think that 60 boltpistol shots (fleshborers but basically boltpistol with assault instead of pistol rule) would put some hurt into them... 3 dead devestators (sadly with bolters).

My bad luck with rolling continues... I lose my last flyrant to more hellfire rounds but not before he finished off the dev centurions...

End game was 8 to me (2 objectives and 2 heavy supports destoryed) and 8 to my opponent (2 objectives and first blood and slay the warlord).

Just found it incredibly frustrating that out of all the shots I either failed completely to hit or with 12 hits from biovores on 1 tactical squad... 3 wounds.

So I've adjusted my list slightly in an attempt to get more wound saturation and more shots (I love the idea Gleipnir put about devourers, triple their shots for double their cost)...

HQ
Flyrant - 260
Wings, TL-Brainleech, Hive Commander, Shreddershard Thorax swarm
Flyrant - 260
Wings, TL-Brainleech, Hive Commander, Shreddershard Thorax swarm

Troops
20 Termagants - 160
Devourers
20 Termagants - 160
Devourers
15 Termagants - 60

Elites
2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Zoanthropes - 100

Fast Attack
Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

Heavy Support
3 Biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170

Fortification
Aegis line w/Quadgun - 100

1750

[This Dave]

I think the Grounding rule is there to try and balance the fact that Flyers can be killed with 1 hit while most if not all FMCs can't. Though I do think it should be a wounding hit that triggers one rather than just a hit period.

[xsquidz]

So a friendly game against a friend with his Crimson Fists...

He had 2 tactical squads, 2 sternguard squads, 1 dev cent with gravs and attached Inquisitor, 1 Assault Terminators (TH+SS), aegis with quadgun and 4 lascannon devestator squad and Pedro in with the assault terminators.

Hammer and Anvil, Big Guns Never Tire... I get first turn.

Start all my FMC's on the ground in glide mode, turn 1 movement I swoop them 24" (yes you can do this, they just have to start on the table in glide mode it's a risk if you don't get first turn or they seize.)

End my FMC's 1" away from squads, open up with all my units put both sternguard squads down to 5 each and a couple of backline tacticals, 1 dev centurion gone. All his units hold firm despite 3 morale checks and quite a few pinning checks...
His turn 1 it all changed.... I had my Flyrants on the flanks with the harpy's in the middle. From my left to my right... Flyrant (warlord) takes 3 boltgun hits from tactical squad rapid firing... saves all, fails grounding isn't wounded, both sternguard squads then open fire with hellfire and splat for First blood and Slay the Warlord. Harpy 1 takes hits from a tactical squad, fails its grounding test doesn't wound itself... get munched by Devestator centurions. Harpy 2, takes 3 wounds from the quad gun (even with dive), fails its grounding test, gets charged by the assault terminators 3 wounds all saved and splat goes a harpy.

So I was 3/4 FMC's down by turn 1... yay for the grounded rule (seriously why so much love for flyers yet so much hate for FMC's?)

Turn 2 termagants (both come on) outflank right side of the board... right next to his devestators and quadgun... you would think that 60 boltpistol shots (fleshborers but basically boltpistol with assault instead of pistol rule) would put some hurt into them... 3 dead devestators (sadly with bolters).

My bad luck with rolling continues... I lose my last flyrant to more hellfire rounds but not before he finished off the dev centurions...

End game was 8 to me (2 objectives and 2 heavy supports destoryed) and 8 to my opponent (2 objectives and first blood and slay the warlord).

Just found it incredibly frustrating that out of all the shots I either failed completely to hit or with 12 hits from biovores on 1 tactical squad... 3 wounds.

So I've adjusted my list slightly in an attempt to get more wound saturation and more shots (I love the idea Gleipnir put about devourers, triple their shots for double their cost)...

HQ
Flyrant - 260
Wings, TL-Brainleech, Hive Commander, Shreddershard Thorax swarm
Flyrant - 260
Wings, TL-Brainleech, Hive Commander, Shreddershard Thorax swarm

Troops
20 Termagants - 160
Devourers
20 Termagants - 160
Devourers
15 Termagants - 60

Elites
2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Zoanthropes - 100

Fast Attack
Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

Heavy Support
3 Biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170

Fortification
Aegis line w/Quadgun - 100

1750

Take advantage of your FOC and slots! Split up the biovores, even if they hang out together, if the 2 miss they generate d3 spore mines, if the solo one misses it generates the same d3 spore mines. Plus it gives you 2 chances to roll a direct hit, plus you can target 2 targets vs 1. Same with your elites, either split up the zoans for more synapse coverage and more powers or split the venomthropes for more coverage of shrounding.

[Gleipnir]

Don't be too quick to throw your flyers into Rapid Fire range even at 6's to hit its a surefire way to get grounded(you are paying for Venomthropes may as well get use out of thier cover(+2 cover + area terrain), key is to make the units all come together at once, a gliding FMC usign LoS blocking cover and area terrain moving forward is less suceptible to being grounded right in front of his forces, that way turn 2 he's deciding does he want to focus on your flyers that he didnt get twice as many shots on or the 40+ Termagants shooting 120 shots a turn at him that just showed up (I still recommend padding your 30 man Termagant squads with 10 regular gants without upgrades to take return fire. Also is the potential your Biovores have softened some special weapons via Barrage Sniping and if the blasts scatter too far off thats just 1d3 spores threatening to explode on him next turn unless he has a unit fire at them. Should consider some Adrenal Gland Hormagaunts or Gargoyles as well that can run/jump ahead of your exorcine and venomthropes, with STR 4 on the charge they can glance AV10 rear vehicles and present one more fast moving threat that will all come together at the same time.

Also reason i suggested the Imperial bunker for 55 over an Aegis Line for 50 is it makes your Biovores fearless(so on the IB table they are always at least Prowl even without synapse) and much harder to harm them freeing up your venomthropes to keep up with your flying monstrous critters.

[Gleipnir]

Take advantage of your FOC and slots! Split up the biovores, even if they hang out together, if the 2 miss they generate d3 spore mines, if the solo one misses it generates the same d3 spore mines. Plus it gives you 2 chances to roll a direct hit, plus you can target 2 targets vs 1. Same with your elites, either split up the zoans for more synapse coverage and more powers or split the venomthropes for more coverage of shrounding.

Not sure I follow how splitting the biovores helps besides making for multiple targets. Missing generates d3 spore mines per large blast template that hits nothing, better to have all 3 together for connecting barrage fire.

[flatscan]

Not sure I follow how splitting the biovores helps besides making for multiple targets. Missing generates d3 spore mines per large blast template that hits nothing, better to have all 3 together for connecting barrage fire.

According to p65 of the Tyranid codex only if the FIRST template misses do Spore Mines come in. Having 3 separate units instead of a unit of 3 means more chances for Spore Mines.

[Gleipnir]

According to p65 of the Tyranid codex only if the FIRST template misses do Spore Mines come in. Having 3 separate units instead of a unit of 3 means more chances for Spore Mines.

Thanks didn't catch the "first" in the description, cheap as they are I still think id keep em all together and just add more broods if the goal was more spore mines

[flatscan]

Thanks didn't catch the "first" in the description, cheap as they are I still think id keep em all together and just add more broods if the goal was more spore mines

Sure, if you need those FO slots. Otherwise I'd spread them out.

[Martyn Powell]

Hello Chaps... outcome for the tournament - 21st out of 28.

Flyrant - 260 Wings 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander.
Flyrant - 260 Wings, 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander

20 termagants - 160
Devourers
20 termagants - 160
Devourers
15 termagants - 60

2 venomthropes - 90
2 zoanthropes - 100

Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

3 biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170

Aegis - 100
Quadgun

Right Game 1 against Screamerstar.
The scouring (6 objectives each worth 1x1, 2x2, 2x3 and 1x4vp). and DOW deployment.

I get deploy first.

Everything behind gunline, biovores take out two screamers and put a wound on another. flyers go down right flank cant get any hits on some walker thing i forget the name but it was 13/13/11 or something meaning my flyrants couldn't hurt it. Turn 1 I lost a harpy due to it being enfeebled (-1T making it T4)... takes 2 wounds from the walker thing as it has skyfire and it the fails its grounding takes a wound and instant deaths itself!!! yay! so that's my opponent on 2vp's already (First blood and game type).
Game continues to bascially me taking out a few things.

The game ends with me holding 1 objective for 1 vp, 3 objectives contested (screamer unit with 2 heralds had to split off). 1 objective claimed by some deepstriking plaguebearers for 3vp.
I lose 6-3.

Game 2 mechanised guard
Purge the alien, vanguard strike.

Turn 1 I put two hp's between 2 chrimeras (big woop).. take out 7 guardsmen and pin them.
His turn 1 I lose 3 biovores, and 1 zoan from 1 manticore hit... I also get grounded on my non WL flyrant which gets blasted by everything else.
Game goes on and my outlfanking termagants could not have come on in a worse place.
My flyers get ripped apart from a quadgun grounded and then shot by everything else... when I shoot back, I hit but fail to do anything but scratchpaint or kill a few exposed guardsmen.
I lose 9-1.

Game 3
Space Wolves and Ultramarines.
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil.

This is where my flyers really came into play... 3 drop pods came down about about 30 marines exposed on the table so a lot of vector striking removed most of it.
During the game I was doing well and was lucky at getting Catalyst on my 2nd flyrant, but still didn't help my WL which was grounded and shot to bits to give STW and FB.
Game ends with just 4 models left on the table for my opponent. (Rune priest in combat with my flyrant) and 3 tactical marines.
I have 30 termagants, giving linebreaker (and their devourers actually hit and did damage). I also got STW for killing tigerius in a challenge (shame I didn't have mind eater WL trait).
No-one holds the relic.
Game ends 2-2.

Overall... wishing I had my £300 pre-order refunded.o

Just no fun in having models removed from the board because of no save or just crashing and instant killing themselves. Dice failed me in 2 games. 60 shots S4 side armour chrimera hitting on 4's glancing 6's... 8 hits and on glances (I just needed 1 to wreck it).... Assuming I was going to wreck it I conga line behind the tank for LOS blocking however It lived and had 2 Heavy flamers causing 25 wounds on 20models... great.

One thing I did find was that with 2 psychic powers and 2 ranged weapons, a thorax swarm and vector strike I did have up to 6 weapons potentially on both tyrants. Way too much considering they can only use 2 a turn. I was nice in the last game having S3 rending with re-roll wounds (killed about 6 marines) but perhaps having dakkarants as CC with a thorax would be better for supporting other elements of the army.

For me Tyranids are getting shelved. Perhaps Ebay and starting fresh with something else.


Sorry Nidz are an assault army. but since 6th edition I've rarely won with them.

Overwatch killed genestealers. No assault from outflank doubly so.
MC's cannot run up the board... too much AP2 and AP3 will just wipe them out I've seen it happen too many times.
FMC's crash and die too quickly... every list had some sort of skyfire which gives them little to no save.
No mycetic spores has really stopped the movement in the army... they provided an oh **** what's in there factor which is right up in the enemies face on turn 2.

[Halollet]

I wouldn't shelve your nids just yet because, I'm sorry to say this, but I don't like your list at all.

It doesn't hit hard enough to justify its 1750 point cost.

As you said, you put 6 guns on your tyrants each, so that's a bad idea. I was never a fan of the brainleeches as I found tyrants are just better in close combat. Can't shoot you there! With bonesword, whip, talons, and toxin sacs you have a good chance of cutting a riptide in two that doesn't have its super shield up. You already have 1-2 guns on a tyrant with the vector strike and half the time you're going to get one of the physic guns, both of which I love on a tyrant, so why pay more points for things you probably won't use?

Next, your gaunts. You can mix weapons so why aren't you? Do half and half and don't outflank them. This allows you to put more bodies on the field and in the way of enemy shooting and an 18" range means you'll be able to shoot some things first turn. Right now they dont' have any fodder attached to them and they may not see the table until turn 4.

I wouldn't stray away from warriors either. 3 with a strangler giving synapse for your back field as well as camping your home objective is cheap and efficient.

Venom/Zoanthropes are good so I wouldn't touch those.

Can't say much about the harpies, they do seem really squishy to me. I personally don't use them as I love carnifexes too much.

Speaking about carnifexes, why dont' you have one? You shot gaunts at the side of a weak tank, why not just get a fex with a heavy venom cannon and blow it up from across the board? And its still a fex, you walk up and smash things afterwards! Have your tyrant join its assault to really mess up their heavy hitters.

That's what I would do.

[Gleipnir]

Right Game 1 against Screamerstar.
The scouring (6 objectives each worth 1x1, 2x2, 2x3 and 1x4vp). and DOW deployment.

I get deploy first.

Everything behind gunline, biovores take out two screamers and put a wound on another. flyers go down right flank cant get any hits on some walker thing i forget the name but it was 13/13/11 or something meaning my flyrants couldn't hurt it. Turn 1 I lost a harpy due to it being enfeebled (-1T making it T4)... takes 2 wounds from the walker thing as it has skyfire and it the fails its grounding takes a wound and instant deaths itself!!! yay! so that's my opponent on 2vp's already (First blood and game type).
Game continues to bascially me taking out a few things.

The game ends with me holding 1 objective for 1 vp, 3 objectives contested (screamer unit with 2 heralds had to split off). 1 objective claimed by some deepstriking plaguebearers for 3vp.
I lose 6-3.

I am curious, do you Swoop all your flyers far ahead of the rest of your units or Glide them forward using LoS blocking cover to advance, I find Nids far too fragile when you do the former and much easier to get the FMC stuck in and surviving if you do the later, or was this a Tournament where you were not permitted to place terrain of any kind? Does the venomthrope keep up with them?




Game 2 mechanised guard
Purge the alien, vanguard strike.

Turn 1 I put two hp's between 2 chrimeras (big woop).. take out 7 guardsmen and pin them.
His turn 1 I lose 3 biovores, and 1 zoan from 1 manticore hit... I also get grounded on my non WL flyrant which gets blasted by everything else.
Game goes on and my outlfanking termagants could not have come on in a worse place.
My flyers get ripped apart from a quadgun grounded and then shot by everything else... when I shoot back, I hit but fail to do anything but scratchpaint or kill a few exposed guardsmen.
I lose 9-1.

Should consider placing the Biovores in a structure to make them Fearless and thus at least Prowl on the IB table, to prevent losing them to high strength pie plates, saves you from parking a venomthrope near them. Can always add cheap 4 point Termagants to a 20 man group with Devourers to essentially buy them return fire wounds.





Game 3
Space Wolves and Ultramarines.
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil.

This is where my flyers really came into play... 3 drop pods came down about about 30 marines exposed on the table so a lot of vector striking removed most of it.
During the game I was doing well and was lucky at getting Catalyst on my 2nd flyrant, but still didn't help my WL which was grounded and shot to bits to give STW and FB.
Game ends with just 4 models left on the table for my opponent. (Rune priest in combat with my flyrant) and 3 tactical marines.
I have 30 termagants, giving linebreaker (and their devourers actually hit and did damage). I also got STW for killing tigerius in a challenge (shame I didn't have mind eater WL trait).
No-one holds the relic.

The Harpy is really more of a jump monstrous creature than a flyer, and is more effective when paired with something that can take advantage of its -5 initiative screech, obviously Pinning cannons vs Fearless enemies is less than effective. The Twin Linked Devourer Flyrants are good for fighting other flyers but the Tyrant himself is better off on the ground stuck in fighting till he has a flyer to go after.

[Martyn Powell]

Yep i got a pep talk from a mate... nidz wont be shelved... yet.
I've got a few lists in mind.

Turns out the guy i was playing in game 2 wasnt using his master of ordnance correctly (hit markers it goes in direction of arrow).

Reason why i havent mixed weapons yet is that i have mostly fleshborers so no way of telling per model what has what unless all the same.

I have two projects in mind to replace my older models for tyranids and dark elves with the newer releases. Selling my older models to fund this.

[xsquidz]

Hello Chaps... outcome for the tournament - 21st out of 28.

Flyrant - 260 Wings 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander.
Flyrant - 260 Wings, 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander

20 termagants - 160
Devourers
20 termagants - 160
Devourers
15 termagants - 60

2 venomthropes - 90
2 zoanthropes - 100

Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

3 biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170

Aegis - 100
Quadgun

Right Game 1 against Screamerstar.
The scouring (6 objectives each worth 1x1, 2x2, 2x3 and 1x4vp). and DOW deployment.

I get deploy first.

Everything behind gunline, biovores take out two screamers and put a wound on another. flyers go down right flank cant get any hits on some walker thing i forget the name but it was 13/13/11 or something meaning my flyrants couldn't hurt it. Turn 1 I lost a harpy due to it being enfeebled (-1T making it T4)... takes 2 wounds from the walker thing as it has skyfire and it the fails its grounding takes a wound and instant deaths itself!!! yay! so that's my opponent on 2vp's already (First blood and game type).
Game continues to bascially me taking out a few things.

The game ends with me holding 1 objective for 1 vp, 3 objectives contested (screamer unit with 2 heralds had to split off). 1 objective claimed by some deepstriking plaguebearers for 3vp.
I lose 6-3.

Game 2 mechanised guard
Purge the alien, vanguard strike.

Turn 1 I put two hp's between 2 chrimeras (big woop).. take out 7 guardsmen and pin them.
His turn 1 I lose 3 biovores, and 1 zoan from 1 manticore hit... I also get grounded on my non WL flyrant which gets blasted by everything else.
Game goes on and my outlfanking termagants could not have come on in a worse place.
My flyers get ripped apart from a quadgun grounded and then shot by everything else... when I shoot back, I hit but fail to do anything but scratchpaint or kill a few exposed guardsmen.
I lose 9-1.

Game 3
Space Wolves and Ultramarines.
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil.

This is where my flyers really came into play... 3 drop pods came down about about 30 marines exposed on the table so a lot of vector striking removed most of it.
During the game I was doing well and was lucky at getting Catalyst on my 2nd flyrant, but still didn't help my WL which was grounded and shot to bits to give STW and FB.
Game ends with just 4 models left on the table for my opponent. (Rune priest in combat with my flyrant) and 3 tactical marines.
I have 30 termagants, giving linebreaker (and their devourers actually hit and did damage). I also got STW for killing tigerius in a challenge (shame I didn't have mind eater WL trait).
No-one holds the relic.
Game ends 2-2.

Overall... wishing I had my £300 pre-order refunded.o

Just no fun in having models removed from the board because of no save or just crashing and instant killing themselves. Dice failed me in 2 games. 60 shots S4 side armour chrimera hitting on 4's glancing 6's... 8 hits and on glances (I just needed 1 to wreck it).... Assuming I was going to wreck it I conga line behind the tank for LOS blocking however It lived and had 2 Heavy flamers causing 25 wounds on 20models... great.

One thing I did find was that with 2 psychic powers and 2 ranged weapons, a thorax swarm and vector strike I did have up to 6 weapons potentially on both tyrants. Way too much considering they can only use 2 a turn. I was nice in the last game having S3 rending with re-roll wounds (killed about 6 marines) but perhaps having dakkarants as CC with a thorax would be better for supporting other elements of the army.

For me Tyranids are getting shelved. Perhaps Ebay and starting fresh with something else.


Sorry Nidz are an assault army. but since 6th edition I've rarely won with them.

Overwatch killed genestealers. No assault from outflank doubly so.
MC's cannot run up the board... too much AP2 and AP3 will just wipe them out I've seen it happen too many times.
FMC's crash and die too quickly... every list had some sort of skyfire which gives them little to no save.
No mycetic spores has really stopped the movement in the army... they provided an oh **** what's in there factor which is right up in the enemies face on turn 2.

Much of what you proved is that you can't take good advice, then you wonder why it didn't go so well?

FOC FOC FOC!

Break up those biovores, break up either the zoans or the venomthropes, mix and match gaunts to protect the devourers (yes I know you need the models), too many points spent on the tyrants-you don't need the flamer or hive commander, thats 60 points saved!

However, just as important is that it looks like you didn't know your opponents armies, so ask questions!

Game 1-no way should your tyrants be near a soul grinder with AV 13/13/?whatever. If you had used them against the right units in turn 1, like the screamerstar, it could have been an entirely different game. I went against an eldar seer council the other day and with a nice use of onslaught and going first, I killed like 8 of 10 warlocks on turn 1.

Game 2-why are you so bunched up when you are fighting IG with a manticore? Most of their little lasguns are poor AP so don't worry about them as much, spread out but keep one model in each key squad near the venomthropes so they all get cover. here is where splitting up the biovores would have helped as well. Also-manticores are just devastating.

Just adapt for next games. :)

[Martyn Powell]

Yes I accept that my list and also my tactics were flawed. It is true that I don't know many armies apart from what I play and what I play against at my local club. Unfortunately everyone at the club pretty much uses Marines. We have very few who use Tau, Eldar, Daemons and our Guard players are all very fluffy. I would be nice to have everybook and indeed every army but with the prices as they are I'll win the lottery first before even dreaming of starting something else while I have 2 40k armies (Templars and Tyranids) and 2 Fantasy armies (Bretonians and Dark Elves).

The reason why I kept units together (ie. zoans in a unit of 2 and the biovores in a unit of 3) is so that in purge the alien (which is pretty much guaranteed to be a game type) I won't be giving away easier VPs.

Anyway back to list building (I am taking on board all of your ideas as I can easily overlook or misinterpret something).

List 1 work in progress, especially in the troops department.

HQ
Swarmlord - 285
2 Tyrant Guard - 100
Deathleaper - 130

Tervigon - 195
30 Termagants - 120

2 Zoanthropes - 100
2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Lictors - 100

Crone - 155
Crone - 155

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
Biovore - 40

Lictors and Deathleaper Infiltrate depending on the opponent. This allows pinpoint deepstrikes/TFTD for Mawlocks. Swarmlord would advance along with the 30 termagants providing intervening model save with venoms making it a 3+ cover while moving up the table, also providing the all important synapse (which would most likely be out to 24"). Both Crones are on anti-tank/MEQ/Flyer duty, either starting on the board and advancing with the swarmlord to get the 3+ cover or arriving turn 2 (if going second) to get some shots on some flyers. Tervigon sits back, most likely with the biovore and the zoans.

Thoughts?

List 2
Swarmlord- 285
3 Tyrant Guard - 150
Flyrant - 230
2x TL Brainleech

30 Termagants - 120
1 Tervigon - 195

2 Venomthropes - 90
1 Venomthrope - 45

Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech

This has 185pts spare of which I'm not sure on where I want it to go. Idea is to have swarmlord up behind the termagants getting shrouded from venoms, Carnifex's move up on another flank with a tervigon behind pooping out troops from turn 2. Undecided what I want the tyrant to do.

Are these better lists? lol

[xsquidz]

Yes I accept that my list and also my tactics were flawed. It is true that I don't know many armies apart from what I play and what I play against at my local club. Unfortunately everyone at the club pretty much uses Marines. We have very few who use Tau, Eldar, Daemons and our Guard players are all very fluffy. I would be nice to have everybook and indeed every army but with the prices as they are I'll win the lottery first before even dreaming of starting something else while I have 2 40k armies (Templars and Tyranids) and 2 Fantasy armies (Bretonians and Dark Elves).

The reason why I kept units together (ie. zoans in a unit of 2 and the biovores in a unit of 3) is so that in purge the alien (which is pretty much guaranteed to be a game type) I won't be giving away easier VPs.

Anyway back to list building (I am taking on board all of your ideas as I can easily overlook or misinterpret something).

List 1 work in progress, especially in the troops department.

HQ
Swarmlord - 285
2 Tyrant Guard - 100
Deathleaper - 130

Tervigon - 195
30 Termagants - 120

2 Zoanthropes - 100
2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Lictors - 100

Crone - 155
Crone - 155

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
Biovore - 40

Lictors and Deathleaper Infiltrate depending on the opponent. This allows pinpoint deepstrikes/TFTD for Mawlocks. Swarmlord would advance along with the 30 termagants providing intervening model save with venoms making it a 3+ cover while moving up the table, also providing the all important synapse (which would most likely be out to 24"). Both Crones are on anti-tank/MEQ/Flyer duty, either starting on the board and advancing with the swarmlord to get the 3+ cover or arriving turn 2 (if going second) to get some shots on some flyers. Tervigon sits back, most likely with the biovore and the zoans.

Thoughts?

List 2
Swarmlord- 285
3 Tyrant Guard - 150
Flyrant - 230
2x TL Brainleech

30 Termagants - 120
1 Tervigon - 195

2 Venomthropes - 90
1 Venomthrope - 45

Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech

This has 185pts spare of which I'm not sure on where I want it to go. Idea is to have swarmlord up behind the termagants getting shrouded from venoms, Carnifex's move up on another flank with a tervigon behind pooping out troops from turn 2. Undecided what I want the tyrant to do.

Are these better lists? lol

If you want to learn how to play against armies you don't see very often-ask them questions before the game begins, make sure you know how stuff works, watch battle report videos as well, or ask on forums for advice versus certain armies.

Your first list is interesting but a bit gimmicky. If the lictors and deathleaper do die early then the mawlocs will just drop like normal, or if you find you can't get them close enough before reserves come in it will be the same issue. Personally I think the lictor/mawloc tactic doesn't seem very good-HOWEVER I have never tried it so I suggest you do and see how it goes. I think mawlocs have potential but with the other models you are tying up alot of points for something that still might not work.

As per the second list, I think it has potential. Carnifexes with 2X TL devourers are amazing in the few games I have used them. Personally I am not a big fan of the swarmlord either, but again I would say try it because he can guarantee to get 24 inch synpase so he should be able to cover your whole army.

I like list 2 better but you should just try them both.

[Martyn Powell]

the lictor/mawloc tactic like you said "could" work.

It all depends on how close I can get them to a target, Infiltrate 12" away out of LOS or 18" in line of sight... If I get second deployment/turn then I can charge something squishy and still be able to TFTD on to the unit that is in CC with the deathleaper/lictors as it is not a shooting attack and doesn't target a unit.
Mawlocs would also be turning up on a 2+.
Deathleaper is particularly hard to kill on turn 1, in 5+ cover he's got a 4+ cover save due to stealth and you can only fire snapshots... I would be very, very wise on his placement as I would be with the other lictors.

Personally Mawlocs I've not had much luck with, I've had one bump his head on a LS Typhoon and go back into reserve only next turn to bump his head on an iron halo (scatter not intentional) and die from mishap. Another time he bumped his head twice on an attack bike after killing 3 bikes.

Carnifex's... I like them, I have 4 of them yet in 5th edition I rarely used them (160pts basic was stupid). Now they are 120 basic and 150 for dakka yeah they have a use, however like a squadron of vehicles they will take some punishment from eldar with massed rending and also grav weapons... all of which have better range/mobility. So it's finding the right target, but yes 3 of them 36shots S6 TL is nice but useless against AV13.

The reason for the 3 separate units is for wounds overspill... it wont happen on a separate unit which is an inch away.

It was my friend with the pep talk who came up with list 2...

I prefer list 1, just because it's up in your opponents face causing them to do 1 of 2 things... bunker down and take it with a gun line... or spread out knowing that there are S6 AP2 ignores cover large blasts incoming. Either way you're going to cause havoc in an organized defense or allow units like the crones to single out and destroy isolated units.

I've never been a fan of footslogging... in the current meta, just too much shooting. I played eldar (this guy came 6th with this list in the tournament) Twin seer... I got halfway across the board. 5th edition codex... I got half way across the board facing 3k of Taudar... but I did better than my 4th ed Black Templars (yeah those games were about 6months ago, but my feelings towards footslogging haven't changed.)

I'll see if I can get a game with list 1 tomorrow evening and let you know how it goes... On Thursday I'll try list 2, Any Ideas on what to spend the last 185pts on? perhaps drop the swarmlord to a tyrant and chuck in lots of hormagaunts?

[xsquidz]

Your 2nd list does lack AA besides all the TL devourers so adding a crone wouldn't be too bad. I think if you want the swarmlord to be your only semi-stationary advancing synapse (hive tyrant will be running around, tervigon I guess will hang back) you need to keep him vs a tyrant for the extra 6' synpase and 3 powers so you can make it 24' and still have 2 other powers. You could also use the 185 points to take some devourers in the 30 man squad, then maybe a squad of 1-2 zoanthropes so you can get more powers and try to get lucky and get catalyst etc. You want that on the swarmlord so badly with this list. As to your comment about not wanting to split units for Purge the Alien, its a valid point but if you are playing normal missions you should only get that 1/6 times, so I build to be good for 5 out of 6 games. Its very hard with nids to make a really good all comers list IMO.

[Halollet]

Yes I accept that my list and also my tactics were flawed. It is true that I don't know many armies apart from what I play and what I play against at my local club. Unfortunately everyone at the club pretty much uses Marines. We have very few who use Tau, Eldar, Daemons and our Guard players are all very fluffy. I would be nice to have everybook and indeed every army but with the prices as they are I'll win the lottery first before even dreaming of starting something else while I have 2 40k armies (Templars and Tyranids) and 2 Fantasy armies (Bretonians and Dark Elves).

The reason why I kept units together (ie. zoans in a unit of 2 and the biovores in a unit of 3) is so that in purge the alien (which is pretty much guaranteed to be a game type) I won't be giving away easier VPs.

Anyway back to list building (I am taking on board all of your ideas as I can easily overlook or misinterpret something).

List 1 work in progress, especially in the troops department.

HQ
Swarmlord - 285
2 Tyrant Guard - 100
Deathleaper - 130

Tervigon - 195
30 Termagants - 120

2 Zoanthropes - 100
2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Lictors - 100

Crone - 155
Crone - 155

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
Biovore - 40

Lictors and Deathleaper Infiltrate depending on the opponent. This allows pinpoint deepstrikes/TFTD for Mawlocks. Swarmlord would advance along with the 30 termagants providing intervening model save with venoms making it a 3+ cover while moving up the table, also providing the all important synapse (which would most likely be out to 24"). Both Crones are on anti-tank/MEQ/Flyer duty, either starting on the board and advancing with the swarmlord to get the 3+ cover or arriving turn 2 (if going second) to get some shots on some flyers. Tervigon sits back, most likely with the biovore and the zoans.

Thoughts?


This is a really neat list. I'm worried about the lack of troops but other the that, looks like a hard nut to crack. Would love to see how this plays out.



List 2
Swarmlord- 285
3 Tyrant Guard - 150
Flyrant - 230
2x TL Brainleech

30 Termagants - 120
1 Tervigon - 195

2 Venomthropes - 90
1 Venomthrope - 45

Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech

This has 185pts spare of which I'm not sure on where I want it to go. Idea is to have swarmlord up behind the termagants getting shrouded from venoms, Carnifex's move up on another flank with a tervigon behind pooping out troops from turn 2. Undecided what I want the tyrant to do.

Are these better lists? lol

I would take broods of hormagaunts to act as mobile cover and assault assist for the Swarmlord and fexes. But man... you got a lot of shootyness in this army. The only thing I see lacking is anti armour 13+ so that would be up to your flyrant then.

[Martyn Powell]

Ok... It's taken me a while to get a game of 40k in... currently running a Necromunda Tournament/Campaign which is always fun!

Anyway.

I managed to play List 1 against a blend of Guard and Dark Angels. Long story short I won by turn 4 where I table my opponent. Fortunately for me my opponent didn't know much about the new tyranid rules so when he went to fire his Russ Executioner (the multi shot plasma cannon one), his face dropped when I said he couldn't.

So game was Dawn of War, Big Guns, Night Fighting Turn 1.... I win the roll and opt to go second. Lictors infiltrate up to the middle of the board and Deathleaper infiltrates far left and 12" out of sight of the executioner. Turn 1 I lose 12 Termagants and take a wound on the tervigon. My Turn 1 I put 2 hullpoints on the executioner and stun it, My lictors fail to reach a chimera with special weapons team inside (lots of plasma). Zoans cause a peril... yay.

Turn 2 Belial comes down behind my swarmlord and tyrant guard... a DW terminator squad comes down next to them... both units open up on my Swarmlord... couple of wounds all saved. My remaining termagants from the brood come under fire from 2 battle cannons, 2 guard squads (1 vets, 1 normal)... I lose 2 due to the front one's being in ruins and the one's at the back being within 6" of the venomthropes. My Turn 2... Reserves... 2 Mawlocs and 1 crone. What I did next really turned the game in my favor...

Mawloc 1 comes on and opts to deepstrike over the unit manning his quad gun... 5 tactical marines... also nearby are 10 guardsmen... Largeblast gets all 15 models... roll to scatter Boom! hit. 5 marines gone and 1 wound on the gun, 7 guardsmen gone... I can't place the mawloc so I do the attack again killing the remaining 3 guardsmen and failing to destroy the quad gun.. I can just about squeeze the mawloc down next to the gun. Second Mawloc comes on scatters and hits 2 guardsmen from another squad killing them. Crone can now deploy without risk of intercept... vector strikes the command squad with Belial and kills one. Most of my army moves up, Deathleaper kills the executioner, Swarmlord charges Belial and challenges which is accepted, i lose my tyrant guard due to some lucky FNP saves. Tervigon charges the other DW terminator Squad and starts cleaving through them.

Rest of the game continues with me picking off the guard units one by one. DW Terminators put my tervigon down to 3 wounds before he kills them. Swarmlord takes 3 turn to kill Belial... eventually by amount of wounds taken rather than instant death (which kept being saved).

Game ended 14-2 I believe. I really enjoyed this game... my opponent didn't.

24" Synapse is the beast... run a Swarmlord up the middle of the table... ok so that's all of my army in synapse then.

I forgot my Biovore for the whole game! it was just sat hiding in a ruin... lol.
Zoanthropes did nothing for me... warp lance... perils... warp lance... double 1's... warp blast... 2 dead guardsmen... yay.
Lictors didn't survive long enough to benefit pheromone trail... deathleaper was too far from anything.

really playing for the 2+ cover is nice... especially when you receive 30 wounds and only lose 2 models :D

I'll look at list 1 again but at this point I'm thinking of dropping the Deathleaper, Lictors and the Biovore... so that's 270pts to put somewhere.