Tyranid Vanguard Dataslate.

[Mr Mystery]

As seen here (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=12800048) the Tyranid Vanguard Dataslate is now available.

ITunes Dataslate page (https://itunes.apple.com/gb/book/dataslate-tyranid-vanguard/id798864579?mt=11)

Same web page also promises this to be the first of three, reflecting how Leviathan will scoff a planet.

http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication/v4/a6/60/57/a6605744-4431-8cb3-14a7-b1d0f119e7fe/Dataslate_Leviathan_Rising_1.225x225-75.jpg

http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication/v4/9d/ee/bf/9deebf8b-aab9-5b55-9815-090106521283/2014-01-14_13.56.22.480x480-75.jpg

http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication6/v4/38/27/5d/38275d3f-8ee3-96d8-82c9-3fbde237de5c/2014-01-14_13.58.26.480x480-75.jpg

http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication6/v4/28/1b/80/281b8016-6606-64dc-f652-628305dcce63/2014-01-14_14.03.27.480x480-75.jpg


Description
To the horror of the planetary governor of Satys, a Tyranid hive fleet has cut the planet off from Warp communication, and its creatures are infiltrating the furthest reaches of the planet. The irradiated jungles are being stalked by Lictors, while Genestealers are starting to infest the manufactorums. It is up to the planet’s two Catachan regiments as well as a small strike force of the Aurora Chapter to lead the planet’s defence. But the Hive Mind rapidly responds to the defenders’ tactics, and soon begins to overwhelm the Imperial forces...

In this Book:
Leviathan Rising is the first book in a trilogy of Tyranid Dataslates, each of which details the different stages of Hive Fleet Leviathan’s assault upon the planet of Satys. This first installment showcases the vanguard organisms of the Tyranid fleet. It contains formations, missions and rules so that you can re-create the hideous invasion techniques of Hive Fleet Leviathan in your games of Warhammer 40,000.

About this Edition:
This interactive edition features quick-links to special rules for ease of reference during your games.

[Captain Bubonicus]

It ain't available until January 25, right?

[Mr Mystery]

Does seem to be up on pre-order.....

My bad!

[euansmith]

Shouldn't this have been in the Codex? Unless this contains the Genestealer Cult.

[Badtucker]

Shouldn't this have been in the Codex? Unless this contains the Genestealer Cult.

People dont understand that these things are optiona formations for armys... Why would they be in the codex? No codex has ever had them!? These are about option not codex necessity.
On another note yes genesteeler cult should soooo get in there :)

[Keef]

Hey guys, codex tyranids is out, and it costs £30, double what the last one was. Enjoy! Wait did we say £30!? £35 for the iPad edition.

Remember how we used to give you painting tips in a codex so your models look ok? Don't do that any more bro, you're gonna need the How to paint: tyranids book. It's 48 pages long and costs £9.99. Also these tips tell you to use our paints, because we're the best.

Hey it's us again, know how we released the new tyranid codex last week? Well here's an anti tyranid expansion for space marines. It includes 2 units, is 23 pages long and costs £4.49. £4.99 if you buy it on iTunes.

Know how we used to release new characters in white dwarf? We don't so that anymore. There's also now two white dwarfs as well. Both cost more than before.

Oh and actually, instead of releasing new characters, instead we took a lot of special characters out the codex. Well we're releasing them in online edition so you'll have to buy that too if you want the same stuff you had just last week. Sorry, did we say edition? Meant editions, they're split up into 3 parts, you you have to buy all of them. And the codex too, because these expansions don't include the base stuff in the codex.

Also those expansions are £8.99 each, and stretched over several weeks so I guess you'll have to wait for now. And I bet they cost £10 on iTunes, because lol, let's charge 10% more for everything in iTunes.

So what's that total? £67 for the full contents of the new tyranid codex. £75 if you're buying it all on iTunes. £71.50/£80 if you buy the tyranic war veteran thing too.

[ted234521]

Hey guys, codex tyranids is out, and it costs £30, double what the last one was. Enjoy! Wait did we say £30!? £35 for the iPad edition.

Remember how we used to give you painting tips in a codex so your models look ok? Don't do that any more bro, you're gonna need the How to paint: tyranids book. It's 48 pages long and costs £9.99. Also these tips tell you to use our paints, because we're the best.

Hey it's us again, know how we released the new tyranid codex last week? Well here's an anti tyranid expansion for space marines. It includes 2 units, is 23 pages long and costs £4.49. £4.99 if you buy it on iTunes.

Know how we used to release new characters in white dwarf? We don't so that anymore. There's also now two white dwarfs as well. Both cost more than before.

Oh and actually, instead of releasing new characters, instead we took a lot of special characters out the codex. Well we're releasing them in online edition so you'll have to buy that too if you want the same stuff you had just last week. Sorry, did we say edition? Meant editions, they're split up into 3 parts, you you have to buy all of them. And the codex too, because these expansions don't include the base stuff in the codex.

Also those expansions are £8.99 each, and stretched over several weeks so I guess you'll have to wait for now. And I bet they cost £10 on iTunes, because lol, let's charge 10% more for everything in iTunes.

So what's that total? £67 for the full contents of the new tyranid codex. £75 if you're buying it all on iTunes. £71.50/£80 if you buy the tyranic war veteran thing too.

Oh, please, stop with the OH EM GEE TEERRANIDS SUUUKKKK. "What's the total oh I have to pay soooo much" yeah look at Space Marines, their codex is 5 more pounds and their supplement costs 32 (more than 3 Tyranid ones!) as well. And why on EARTH would a TYRANID player buy a supplement for killing Tyranids? You're bring ridiculous and you know it.

[Keef]

Sorry, I have made a mistake in my earlier post.

The Tyrannic War veterans data slate doesn't feature two new units: it has one new unit and one new formation.

[Joshua Clark]

Well written, keef. Now... Instead of posting on a public forum, do you have the courage to actually call, write or email.. Or visit in person... And give them your concerns in a little more of a professional tone? Just a thought. If everyone who complained online actually did something a little more worthwhile with that effort, think of the impact it would actually have... As opposed to having a few trolls blow smoke up your rear agreeing with how right you are.

[Billy_Mx]

Joshua you are prob the guy that reminded the teacher he forgot to give our HW. Keef thanks for the laugh...sadly on a true situation

[Joshua Clark]

Cute ... But Am I right or am I wrong? Is it better to sit here and write funny posts and insult people or to actually do something? I just get sick of the negativity.

[Horncastle]

@Joshua. I agree plus none of the additional content is really needed to play (and the higher price on iTunes is an apple thing not GW ).

[Keef]

Oh, please, stop with the OH EM GEE TEERRANIDS SUUUKKKK. "What's the total oh I have to pay soooo much" yeah look at Space Marines, their codex is 5 more pounds and their supplement costs 32 (more than 3 Tyranid ones!) as well. And why on EARTH would a TYRANID player buy a supplement for killing Tyranids? You're bring ridiculous and you know it.

Ok I openly admit to being ridiculous there. It's a ridiculous situation though, look at this;

Codex Tyranids; £30, 215 pages
Codex Space Marines; £35, 308 pages

Sentinels of Terra - A Codex: Space Marines Supplement; £25, 127 pages
Clan Raukaan - A Codex: Space Marines Supplement; £25, 213 pages

Dataslate: Tyranid Vanguard - Rising Leviathon Part 1; £9, 42 pages

I used the page number values from iTunes to try and keep it even, because of the differences between paper and digital page size.

The marines codex costs an extra £5, but gets almost 50% more pages. I'm not butt hurt because come on, everyone loves the space marines and there's a lot more fluff to write about. I get that, but I hoped that thinner books would get a much lower price point. Naive, I know. This sucks when comparing the Imperial Fists and Iron Hand supplements as well. I feel for you sons of Dorn.

If what the tyranids were getting promised was cool and new, then I'd be way less negative about it. A sneak peek from the data slate shows a new formation of Deathleaper, the lictor character leading 5 squads of lictors. A new spin on the army would be nice, like Genestealer cults. Actually now I'm thinking about it, maybe they're waiting for the Imperial guard release which is rumoured to be soon (relatively speaking).




Well written, keef. Now... Instead of posting on a public forum, do you have the courage to actually call, write or email.. Or visit in person... And give them your concerns in a little more of a professional tone? Just a thought. If everyone who complained online actually did something a little more worthwhile with that effort, think of the impact it would actually have... As opposed to having a few trolls blow smoke up your rear agreeing with how right you are.

I was just letting off a bit of steam there, but seriously, what action can I take? I make myself heard with where I spend my money because what would a poor blue shirt be able to do about the situation? Or their customer service department, it's not their fault, I don't want to make some poor call centre workers life a misery about something they can't help. You can see by my post count that I've never ranted on the forum before, so I'm not one of those people who do it constantly.

Well, I wasn't. I guess now I am.

[Hellfire]

Considering GW doesn't care what we think, I see nothing wrong with mocking their practices and drawing a measure of humor from the situation.

[Chris*ta]

I was just letting off a bit of steam there, but seriously, what action can I take?

Write an email, or better yet, a letter.

If enough people do it, and especially considering the hit in stock value GW has just taken, it might have an effect.

Letters work better than emails, I don't know why.

[Al Shut]

So, anybody got an educated guess to offer how preferred enemy is supposed to work with characters?

One character in a unit making the whole unit preferred enemy sounds stupid but gaining preferred enemy only if all models are characters sounds worse.
Any other ideas?

[Jimmynurgle]

Ok I openly admit to being ridiculous there. It's a ridiculous situation though, look at this;

Codex Tyranids; £30, 215 pages
Codex Space Marines; £35, 308 pages

Sentinels of Terra - A Codex: Space Marines Supplement; £25, 127 pages
Clan Raukaan - A Codex: Space Marines Supplement; £25, 213 pages

Dataslate: Tyranid Vanguard - Rising Leviathon Part 1; £9, 42 pages

I used the page number values from iTunes to try and keep it even, because of the differences between paper and digital page size.

The marines codex costs an extra £5, but gets almost 50% more pages. I'm not butt hurt because come on, everyone loves the space marines and there's a lot more fluff to write about. I get that, but I hoped that thinner books would get a much lower price point. Naive, I know. This sucks when comparing the Imperial Fists and Iron Hand supplements as well. I feel for you sons of Dorn.

If what the tyranids were getting promised was cool and new, then I'd be way less negative about it. A sneak peek from the data slate shows a new formation of Deathleaper, the lictor character leading 5 squads of lictors. A new spin on the army would be nice, like Genestealer cults. Actually now I'm thinking about it, maybe they're waiting for the Imperial guard release which is rumoured to be soon (relatively speaking).





I was just letting off a bit of steam there, but seriously, what action can I take? I make myself heard with where I spend my money because what would a poor blue shirt be able to do about the situation? Or their customer service department, it's not their fault, I don't want to make some poor call centre workers life a misery about something they can't help. You can see by my post count that I've never ranted on the forum before, so I'm not one of those people who do it constantly.

Well, I wasn't. I guess now I am.

Letters and emails reall do not mean much, especially to a company like GW who give a rats *** to customer satisfaction anyways. The best way? NOT buy any of their Nickel and Dime methods.... Don't buy the overpriced under-developed codex, sure as hell don't buy the "painting guide", laugh at these dataslates.. Their sdtock already dropped 25% last quater... our goal should be drop it by 50%.. THEN they may notice!

[DarkLink]

So, anybody got an educated guess to offer how preferred enemy is supposed to work with characters?

One character in a unit making the whole unit preferred enemy sounds stupid but gaining preferred enemy only if all models are characters sounds worse.
Any other ideas?

Look in the BRB section on special rules. It will specify which rules are conferred to the unit, and which only apply to the character.

[DWest]

I would expect PE-Characters would mainly just matter in challenges, or if you catch an IC or Mephiston type out in the open.

[DarkLink]

Ah, I misunderstood what he was asking. Yes, if you're hitting the unit, the unit isn't a character, so no PE. If you're in a challenge, or fighting an IC that isn't with a unit, or something like that, then you get PE.

[Al Shut]

Sounds less cool than I initially thought when I saw the picture

[John Bower]

I want to know what the thing is with ithis and ithat.... They got shares in Apple or something? There's great tablets out there that are a fraction of the overpriced Apple stuff.

[GravesDisease]

I want to know what the thing is with ithis and ithat.... They got shares in Apple or something? There's great tablets out there that are a fraction of the overpriced Apple stuff.

Apple have extended the ePub eBook format to contain rich media features you cannot currently do with normal ePubs or Mobis. Not even Amazon (and kindle format) has come close to the feature set possible with iBooks; which lends itself well to codices.

Of course it's probably just easier to Apple bash so let's just stay with that.

[Mr Mystery]

Plus, Apple offer a single OS across all their devices.

Other tablets vary, including different versions of Android all requiring subtley different approachs from the author.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Remember how we used to give you painting tips in a codex so your models look ok? Don't do that any more bro, you're gonna need the How to paint: tyranids book. It's 48 pages long and costs £9.99. Also these tips tell you to use our paints, because we're the best.

Or you could just apply the generic painting skills you learnt from a) White Dwarf or b) Painting lessons in the local GW Store/FLGS...

I for one am glad to see the back of that crap wasting space in the codex...

[Lord-Boofhead]

Apple have extended the ePub eBook format to contain rich media features you cannot currently do with normal ePubs or Mobis. Not even Amazon (and kindle format) has come close to the feature set possible with iBooks; which lends itself well to codices.

Of course it's probably just easier to Apple bash so let's just stay with that.

yes because a book, that you read, needs to be an interactive extravaganza..

[GravesDisease]

yes because a book, that you read, needs to be an interactive extravaganza..

White Dwarf, codexes and the rulebook aren't books - they are picture books at best but mostly resembling a school text book. The paper codices have elaborate formatting as it is anyway (pop outs, multi columns, borders) which you simply are unable to recreate in a bog standard ebook format ebook. The PDFs offer better support for formatting but are trivially easy to pirate so not compatible with any successful business model.

Source: Worked two years for at a broadsheet attempting to make digital publishing work.

[Chris*ta]

Worked two years for at a broadsheet attempting to make digital publishing work.

How'd that work out? :p

Death of print news, fnarr, fnarr.

[Mr Mystery]

Source: Worked two years for at a broadsheet attempting to make digital publishing work.

Did you try kicking it?

[deinol]

The PDFs offer better support for formatting but are trivially easy to pirate so not compatible with any successful business model.

You must not play RPGs.

[Orange]

So, back to actually discussing this potentially awesome Dataslate...

Can I bring these gribblies as pets for my Taudar to use as hunting parties as part of a Formation?

[Chris*ta]

Did you try kicking it?

Did you try turning it off and on again?


So, back to actually discussing this potentially awesome Dataslate...

Can I bring these gribblies as pets for my Taudar to use as hunting parties as part of a Formation?

That would be pretty cool. What's those weird aliens with the chest-mounted guns that work as mercenaries?

[GravesDisease]

So, back to actually discussing this potentially awesome Dataslate...

Can I bring these gribblies as pets for my Taudar to use as hunting parties as part of a Formation?

No, dataslates/formations still follow the allies chart.

[Yeahbuddy42]

I'm a little lost as to what a data slate does for me. If I buy this digital book, does it afford me new rules with which to use with my Tyranid army? For instance, using the teasing pictures associated with the black library site, I could put Deathleaper and 5 Lictors into my army using a "formation". What is a formation? If someone could take a moment and point me towards answers I would appreciate it. Thanks

[PinkTerror]

...I could put Deathleaper and 5 Lictors into my army using a "formation". What is a formation? If someone could take a moment and point me towards answers I would appreciate it...

Thanks for asking the same question I have. If I take that Assassin Brood with my Tyranid Army, does that free an HQ (Deathleaper) and Elite (Lictors) slot in my FOC? Or does the Assassin Brood take 1 HQ and 1 Elite slot in my Tyranid FOC?

[Gleipnir]

Didn't see this anywhere else so thought I'd offer some of the info from the 5 formations in Dataslate

Lictor Forest Brood

1 oversize Lictor Brood consisting of 5 Lictors instead of the normal 1-3 gains Shrouded instead of Stealth when in Forests and can Infiltrate (within 6") of an enemy if placed in a forest.

Deploying with 2+ cover save close to the enemy in a forest in a larger than standard brood certainly makes getting those Mawloc to accurately land seem much more likely. The within 6" wording seems unusual since it would mean your infiltrating either 1-6" away in forests or otherwise infiltrating 12" out of LoS or 18" in LoS and that more than 6" but less than 12" range is a no mans land for range

Manufactorum Genestealers

5 Genestealer Broods unable to add additional Genestealers(nothing forbidding Broodlords) gains Hit and Run and can Infiltrate (within 6") of an enemy if deployed in Ruins or Buildings

An improvement over the basic codex since at 6" they definitely can disrupt late turn 1 or turn 2, potentially buying the rest of the swarm time to advance early, since units in formations retain their battlefield role(ie HQ, Elite, Fast Attack and Troops) its a nice way of securing forward objectives

Deathleaper's Assassin Brood

Deathleaper + 5 Lictor Broods(each consisting of single model) gains Preferred Enemy vs Characters and Independent characters and -1 to enemy leadership within 12" of units in formation

I really like this one for its 12" leadership penalty bubble and the potential for on target Deep Strikes coming down from 6 separate pheromone trails

Broodlord's Hunting Pack

3 Genestealer Broods +1 Broodlord(Limit 1 Broodlord per formation) Can enter any unoccupied building from reserve or set up in any ruins more than 6" from the enemy(note no mention of Deep Strike or Infiltrating with this, just entering more than 6" away if ruins and as close as you want if unoccupied building). Gains preferred enemy against 1 enemy unit and all the models that are a part of that unit.

My second favorite of the five, just thinking of the potential chaos of Genestealers assaulting out of previously unoccupied building sections and ruins and coming into play in cover this way seems much more like Genestealers should have been. Yes lets face it the days of any unit being able to assault the turn it arrives are done, all the other armies are losing it too. As before a potential late game Troop choice for securing objectives.

Gargoyle Bio Bombs

3 Gargoyle Broods + 3 Spore Mine Clusters. Essentialy doubles spore mine clusters movement, run and charge ranges as long as they are within 6" of a gargoyle brood in the formation during each phase.

The formation with the most synergy involved, Deep Strike in preferably with Lictors guiding you in keep your gargoyles in front of the spore mines till its time to assault and then jump your gargoyles in assault beyond the blast of the spore mines.

Overall some nice changes that help make the hive mind's ability to disrupt better and improves on all 3 unit types it uses (Lictors/Genestealers/Spore Mines). The next Dataslate will likely feature some formations with Tyranid Warriors for those that are looking for some fixes for what currently feels overcosted.

[iNcontroL]

ty for posting this.. interesting for sure. It at least makes genestealers and lictors a bit more usable.

[Pssyche]

The Eldar Ghost Warriors Dataslate has this to say...

"When you choose an army, you can take a Formation as a special form of Detachment. Unless otherwise stated, you can take any number of Formations in your army, and each is considered to be a completely separate Detachment, regardless of how many units make it up."


So, they don't take up any of your FOC and you can take as many Formations as you can afford the Points for.

[Dlatrex]

Exactly. The independence of the FOC is of great use. If I was planning to run Lictors this is almost certainly how I'd do it. With a brood of 5 strong, that's 15 wounds throwing 25 attacks at I6 S6+ rending on the charge. Sure it's expensive, but no army will want to get close to it, and you can control movement on the enemy's side of the board.

Right now I cannot picture how to use the Garg/Sporemines

Edit: I didn't see that quick analaysis of the Sporemine formation. Used in conjunction with lictors it makes perfect sense. You really COULD do a Min/Max force with Obligatory FOC and then just load up on these formations!

[Kahrel]

Please correct me if I'm wrong:

Let's say I take Broodlord's Hunting Pack.
Let's say I take an Alpha Warrior as an HQ.

Theoretically, the Alpha Warrior could join one of the Genestealer Broods and arrive from reserve in an unoccupied building/ruin with them, correct?
The "Hidden Beneath the City" rule states that the units from the formation arrive from reserves in that way, but there are no restrictions from an IC joining their unit.

I could be wrong, but I honestly hope I'm not because I know what formation I'll be taking.

[AlmostMercury]

Yeah it looks cool, but I'm not buying the data slate AND 5 lictors. But I do think the Gargoyle and Genestealer formations are useful, so it's probably worth having. I'm gonna wait to spend my $16.00, though.

As far as the Gargoyles are concerned, you can run the Gargoyles and Deep Strike the mines or deep strike both.

[Gleipnir]

Please correct me if I'm wrong:

Let's say I take Broodlord's Hunting Pack.
Let's say I take an Alpha Warrior as an HQ.

Theoretically, the Alpha Warrior could join one of the Genestealer Broods and arrive from reserve in an unoccupied building/ruin with them, correct?
The "Hidden Beneath the City" rule states that the units from the formation arrive from reserves in that way, but there are no restrictions from an IC joining their unit.

I could be wrong, but I honestly hope I'm not because I know what formation I'll be taking.

Well the formation is considered a separate detachment to the army so if Independent characters from separate allied army detachments are permitted to join one another from Reserve then I would say you are correct they could join while its in reserve. However as formation special rules do not expressly indicate that they are passed on to independent characters that join units in the formation, the special rules exclusive to the formation would not be passed along to any independent characters that join them per page 39 in the BRB. So doing so would not permit you to do what you are suggesting.

In the example you provided the Alpha Warrior could at best join a brood and be apart of it as an Outflanking unit that has preferred enemy vs one enemy unit as those two rules would be the only ones that carry over and if the Alpha warrior lacked Adrenal Glands the Genestealers would lose their access to Fleet.

[Gleipnir]

wrong thread

[Yeahbuddy42]

Quick question: When it says "Take 5 broods of genestealers", does that mean you're taking 25 stealers. Minimum brood size is 5, 5 broods, 5X5=25. If this is wrong please tell me why. Thanks everyone.

[Gleipnir]

Quick question: When it says "Take 5 broods of genestealers", does that mean you're taking 25 stealers. Minimum brood size is 5, 5 broods, 5X5=25. If this is wrong please tell me why. Thanks everyone.

yup that's exactly what it means

[Tarnag]

Overall I'm kinda disappointed in this data slate, I expected something to help Gene stealers and Lictors get into combat, and instead there's just some kinda neat rules with really specific circumstances that I can't see myself taking. The only thing that I can really picture running is the Gargoyle formation just to get a squad of Gargoyles and Spore Mines and save my fast attack slots for Crones.

[Gleipnir]

Overall I'm kinda disappointed in this data slate, I expected something to help Gene stealers and Lictors get into combat, and instead there's just some kinda neat rules with really specific circumstances that I can't see myself taking. The only thing that I can really picture running is the Gargoyle formation just to get a squad of Gargoyles and Spore Mines and save my fast attack slots for Crones.

Yeah I'm not a big fan of the Forest Lictor Brood or Manufactorum Genestealers and Gargoyle Bio Bombs as put your fairly low armor units too close to the enemy to ever take advantage of it feels like though if you don't mind deploying them different from their infiltrated special rules they are okay for ignoring FOC

The Deathleaper formation and the Broodlord pack are the two that have the most to offer for no additional cost, the ability to what is essentially No scatter Deep Strike genestealers out of reserves into ruins and buildings(and in the case of buildings then able to assault after disembarking from them the following turn) and in the case of the Lictors you could easily blanket the board in -1 leadership w/ no scatter Deep Strike accuracy

[Anakzar]

I am a little confused on these dataslates. Do they only work on Ipads? Or would I be able to read them on my PC and print out a hard copy to use at the game store?

[Tarnag]

Yeah I'm not a big fan of the Forest Lictor Brood or Manufactorum Genestealers and Gargoyle Bio Bombs as put your fairly low armor units too close to the enemy to ever take advantage of it feels like though if you don't mind deploying them different from their infiltrated special rules they are okay for ignoring FOC

The Deathleaper formation and the Broodlord pack are the two that have the most to offer for no additional cost, the ability to what is essentially No scatter Deep Strike genestealers out of reserves into ruins and buildings(and in the case of buildings then able to assault after disembarking from them the following turn) and in the case of the Lictors you could easily blanket the board in -1 leadership w/ no scatter Deep Strike accuracy
True, I am curious as to how the Deathleaper's Assault Brood functions in play testing. If you could get that bubble and the SotW bubble to overlap that could shut down quite a few psychic lynchpins, or sync well with Broodlords throwing out The Horror.

[Winston P Smallhouse]

I've just seen the data slate, and the Broodlord hunting pack formation specifically says that units can be placed outside of 6 inches of enemy units. It says nothing about the formation having infiltrated, so technically they could assault turn . I wonder how long this one will take to rule out by FAQ!

[Nid Bits]

How well does Endless swarm and Sky Blight Swarm work out in an actual battle, not theory?

[daboarder]

The skyblight is brutal and the endless swarm is toi if you take trygons

[Lord-Boofhead]

I am a little confused on these dataslates. Do they only work on Ipads? Or would I be able to read them on my PC and print out a hard copy to use at the game store?

they are in ebook and mobi format but you have to convert them into pdf if you want to print it.

[Lord-Boofhead]

I expected something to help Gene stealers and Lictors get into combat,

Stop playing on a billiard table, I find that works.

[daboarder]

Stop playing on a billiard table, I find that works.

And remember, stealers dont have grenades......:rolleyes:

[DarkLink]

True, I am curious as to how the Deathleaper's Assault Brood functions in play testing. If you could get that bubble and the SotW bubble to overlap that could shut down quite a few psychic lynchpins, or sync well with Broodlords throwing out The Horror.

It's pretty bad. I mean, the leadership is kind of a funny trick, but it doesn't actually work very well, and both genestealers and lictors are terrible in general. Skyblight, on the other hand, is over 9000.

[Lord-Boofhead]

And remember, stealers dont have grenades......:rolleyes:

You were expecting them to?

[DWest]

You were expecting them to?
Honestly, not really, but it does tend to change the equation a bit, needing to charge and survive the Overwatch fire, and then being hit first by whatever you charged.

[daboarder]

You were expecting them to?

Considering the kit has a head option that is literally spitting the things.....yeah.

you weren't?

do you work for gw?

[Lord-Boofhead]

Considering the kit has a head option that is literally spitting the things.....yeah.

you weren't?

do you work for gw?

No but I played Genestealers s (mostly Cult) since 2nd. Where are Stealers getting these nades?

[daboarder]

No but I played Genestealers s (mostly Cult) since 2nd. Where are Stealers getting these nades?

????

OO, --, OO, --......okay

[Gleipnir]

Genestealers rely on a Broodlord with Horror or other units using Pinning weapons on their charge targets to survive generally

[daboarder]

which is not a god way to do that really.

but thats by the by, the point was that boofheads one line assertion that all would be right in the world if people he'd never met and didnt know the gaming habits of didn't play on a "billard table" my point was that you can cram all the terrain you want on a board, Stealers will still suck

[Gleipnir]

How well does Endless swarm and Sky Blight Swarm work out in an actual battle, not theory?

I proxied some Daemon Princes recently for extra Hive Crones and Skyblight is a brutal force against Tau/Space Marines/Necrons with almost everything in your opponents face by Turn 2, it works really well with minimal backfield synapse

Haven't tried it out yet vs Eldar/Dark Eldar as none of my group has a full army of them yet.

[Gleipnir]

which is not a god way to do that really.

but thats by the by, the point was that boofheads one line assertion that all would be right in the world if people he'd never met and didnt know the gaming habits of didn't play on a "billard table" my point was that you can cram all the terrain you want on a board, Stealers will still suck

The fact that they rely on Pinning synergy isn't horrible its the price tag of Genestealers that need extra synergy to be effective, same can be said of Howling Banshees.

That said I doubt id take them outside of a Broodlord Hunting Pack

[DarkLink]

The point is, pinning or not, genestealers are terrible. Pinning isn't even remotely close to good enough to save them.

[Lord-Boofhead]

which is not a god way to do that really.

but thats by the by, the point was that boofheads one line assertion that all would be right in the world if people he'd never met and didnt know the gaming habits of didn't play on a "billard table" my point was that you can cram all the terrain you want on a board, Stealers will still suck

I runs at the enemies. Oh they dies. it must be because they suck. Herp derp.

And it seems to be the consensus that when you play with enough scenery CC Units magically don't suck...

[Al Shut]

I seem to have read that point a lot lately.

I always assumed the people complaining about being shot to pieces were using the same table size and same rules for terrain placement as everyone else.

[Charon]

Nah.. we all play without any LOS blockers or cover.. makes it harder.
While ppl like boofhead are the enlightened ones who know how to play properly.
That his genestealer die do Overwatch and still stike last in melee doesnt count as an argument. Good players make up rules themselves to prevent that.

[ToHitMod]

I runs at the enemies. Oh they dies. it must be because they suck. Herp derp.

And it seems to be the consensus that when you play with enough scenery CC Units magically don't suck...

Give it up, these tactical genisus are so advanced that they can tell everything about a unit by looking at stat lines and deciding how things work, they're so smart that they don't even need to play a game and use units together or worry about things like terrain, pinning a unit so it can't shoot at you effectivly before the next turn when you can charge in, or charging genestealers into units already engaged in combat obviously won't work because they've said so.

[daboarder]

I runs at the enemies. Oh they dies. it must be because they suck. Herp derp.

And it seems to be the consensus that when you play with enough scenery CC Units magically don't suck...

you don't get it do you.

When you play on a table with a good volume of terrain, it doesn't make genestealers better.

It makes OTHER assualt units better, but genestealers cost to much for an I1, 5+ save model, because thats wheat they damned well are in terrain, but pleas continue to have a go about my "abilities" I'll be in the tactics section.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Give it up, these tactical genisus are so advanced that they can tell everything about a unit by looking at stat lines and deciding how things work, they're so smart that they don't even need to play a game and use units together or worry about things like terrain, pinning a unit so it can't shoot at you effectivly before the next turn when you can charge in, or charging genestealers into units already engaged in combat obviously won't work because they've said so.

And never mind that Overwatch only works when you are charged in your Fire Arc.

Run across an empty plain down the enemies guns, expect to die.

Stealers are ambush predators use them that way.

But hey Mathhammer trumps actual tactics and strategy.

[Mr Mystery]

Arc of Fire is 360? Unless you're a tank. Which aren't noted for their over watch.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Arc of Fire is 360? Unless you're a tank. Which aren't noted for their over watch.

Oh damn must be confusing it with WFB then.

[daboarder]

maybe learning the rules would be a good idea before you go and insult peoples understanding of how models interact with each other and terrain.

[Charon]

Nah... knowing the rules is optional. Insulting other people does not need any actual rules... you can always make them up yourself. If the opponent disagrees insult him even more. Tactics 101

[Lord-Boofhead]

I'm not sure how my confusion of the fire arcs invalidates the 'don.t run at the enemy across a rolling plain' sugestion./ But hey I bow to ye oh might masters of math hammer.

[Charon]

Why do you insist every other player is playing "math hammer" when you dont even know them?
You try to invalidate their opinions not by arguments but by discarding them as "bad players with no actual game experience". That doesnt reinforce your opinion, it just devaluates it ans makes you look like a jerk.

You can move your stealer from cover to cover all day, even arriving with your full squad intact. At the end of the day you will eat plenty of overwatch fire AND strike last because of no granade equivalents. Which makes them pretty fragile despite careful use.
If you striktly attack already locked up units, you dont really need them anymore as ANY unit can fill their role (point for point). And at the end of the combat, they all go to die anyways.

[Mr Mystery]

It's the striking last that's a bit rubbish.

Stealers are indeed shock troops. And shock troops without the shock? Yeah not so great. Even puny Guardsman can give them a decent kicking in combat.

[daboarder]

It's the striking last that's a bit rubbish.

Stealers are indeed shock troops. And shock troops without the shock? Yeah not so great. Even puny Guardsman can give them a decent kicking in combat.

I've alwasy felt stealers have lost their place a bit in the last nid books,
They used to be expensive but deadly. But they keep getting cheaper but "worse" they are getting to the point where they just compete in role with hormagaunts.

Ideally I'd like to see them go back to 4+ Sv, Ap3 and keep the rending, give them the option to buy flesh hooks and point them at say 18-20 pts and you have your shock and awe assault unit back.

[Mr Mystery]

Given their sneaky-sneak-sneak abilities, how about something like the old (Current?) Wolf Scouts, where they could come on from any table edge?

Not necessarily being able to assault still (would make them far too easy to use, and a bit too deadly), but at least Stealth/Shrouded on the first turn?

For me, there just isn't enough of a 'jaws of the hive mind' feel to the Nids at the moment. Personally, I don't bemoan the loss of the Spore Pod as such, but more being able to bring on a unit of troops where my opponent really doesn't want it!

As an opponent, I want to feel under intense pressure for clever target selection against Tyranids. A slip in concentration or fire discipline should see me in deep trouble! Much as the wave attack can cause this (units bunched together for mutual trickery and support etc), they need some serious 'peekaboo, I GOT YOUR LIVER!' type tactics open to them. Infiltrate is fine, but it just means I prioritise them as a target, as the little chaff type units can't do it, meaning anything creeping up on my turn one is about to get 12 barrels o'dakka right in the face!

[daboarder]

For me, there just isn't enough of a 'jaws of the hive mind' feel to the Nids at the moment. Personally, I don't bemoan the loss of the Spore Pod as such, but more being able to bring on a unit of troops where my opponent really doesn't want it!

As an opponent, I want to feel under intense pressure for clever target selection against Tyranids. A slip in concentration or fire discipline should see me in deep trouble! Much as the wave attack can cause this (units bunched together for mutual trickery and support etc), they need some serious 'peekaboo, I GOT YOUR LIVER!' type tactics open to them. Infiltrate is fine, but it just means I prioritise them as a target, as the little chaff type units can't do it, meaning anything creeping up on my turn one is about to get 12 barrels o'dakka right in the face!

I find that the skyblight and the endless swarm trygon lists both hit this nail on the head.

I have been told, and can imagine, That there is not much more likely to make you crap your pants in the game, than the idea of 60-180 (usually 80-100) gants that not only keep coming back, but start popping out of holes in the ground directly in front of your lines from T2 onwards.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Ideally I'd like to see them go back to 4+ Sv, Ap3 and keep the rending, give them the option to buy flesh hooks and point them at say 18-20 pts and you have your shock and awe assault unit back.

Can't disagree that other than the flesh hooks but I dislike Biomorphs on Stealers.

[Lord-Boofhead]

I don't bemoan the loss of the Spore Pod as such, but more being able to bring on a unit of troops where my opponent really doesn't want it!

Erm, Trygon?

[daboarder]

the trygon only works in an endless swarm, other than that its an affront to printed media

[Lord-Boofhead]

I disagree the Trygon makes the Nids popping up form anywhere do it as a swarm. The Spore made them less swarmy like. Thats why I think they killed it (that and Chapterhouse syndrome)

[daboarder]

I disagree the Trygon makes the Nids popping up form anywhere do it as a swarm. The Spore made them less swarmy like. Thats why I think they killed it (that and Chapterhouse syndrome)
You can disagree all you want, but the numbers dont change, the trygon tunnel doesnt work as there is no way to keep units in reserve with any reliabillity.

its not a matter of opinion.

[Lord-Boofhead]

You can disagree all you want, but the numbers dont change, the trygon tunnel doesnt work as there is no way to keep units in reserve with any reliabillity.

its not a matter of opinion.

It is, all of this is opinion. You can't quantify quality, last guy who tried to do that went batpoop insane.

But you do have a point. The Trygon needs a rule like the Hades Breaching Drill, that lets you attach a number of units to it that may not enter from reserve untill after the Trygon has and must follow it through it's hole.

But sadly its too late for that.

[daboarder]

It is, all of this is opinion. You can't quantify quality, last guy who tried to do that went batpoop insane.

But you do have a point. The Trygon needs a rule like the Hades Breaching Drill, that lets you attach a number of units to it that may not enter from reserve untill after the Trygon has and must follow it through it's hole.

But sadly its too late for that.

off topic: dude you can quantify happiness. quality is done all the time, its the entire cornerstone of industry called quality control

[DarkLink]

It is, all of this is opinion.

Well, it kind of is. It's just one that has math and logic to back it up. Even with a comms array, the odds of your Trygon popping in T2, your first unit of Gaunts T3, your next unit T4, etc, which is all required for this whole tactic to work reasonably well, is pretty low. Since you only get 3 turns of stuff arriving from reserves, that's the Trygon plus two units. To arrive in exactly the order necessary, you only get the Trygon but not the Gaunts in T2 like 1/18 times. A comms array only bumps that up to like a 1/4 chance of it working properly. Now, I just did the math off the top of my head, so those numbers could be a little off. But those aren't gambling odds. The rule is poorly written.

[Lord-Boofhead]

off topic: dude you can quantify happiness. quality is done all the time, its the entire cornerstone of industry called quality control

OK you guys need to go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

[DarkLink]

Or you need to go read this: http://www.amazon.com/Statistics-Third-David-Freedman/dp/0393970833/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395166716&sr=1-1&keywords=statistics+textbook

[Lord-Boofhead]

A book on Statistics? So I can play better Mathhammer.

Yeah no thanks I'll have fun and stick to Sun Zu.,

[DarkLink]

I'm pretty sure that if you asked Sun Tzu (there's a T in there, btw) if gambling a chunk of your army on a tactic that only works like 1 in 10 times was a good idea, he'd just sigh and shake his head and look at you like you were an idiot.

Plus, Sun Tzu was all about beating your enemy before you even faced them on the battlefield. Most of his advice doesn't really apply. Not unless you tailor your list, set up the terrain specifically to advantage your army over your opponents, and peeked at his list, replaced his dice with loaded dice designed to roll 1's, hired a stripper to hit on him and distract him during the game, and any number of other things that really doesn't fit into 40k.

[Mr Mystery]

I expect we'll see some kind of compendium, likely around Chrimbo.

Ltd Ed, or just Ltd run, pretty sure we'll see it.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm pretty sure that if you asked Sun Tzu (there's a T in there, btw) if gambling a chunk of your army on a tactic that only works like 1 in 10 times was a good idea, he'd just sigh and shake his head and look at you like you were an idiot.

Plus, Sun Tzu was all about beating your enemy before you even faced them on the battlefield. Most of his advice doesn't really apply. Not unless you tailor your list, set up the terrain specifically to advantage your army over your opponents, and peeked at his list, replaced his dice with loaded dice designed to roll 1's, hired a stripper to hit on him and distract him during the game, and any number of other things that really doesn't fit into 40k.

Strippers don't fit into 40k?

No wonder I got slung out that Tournament!

[DarkLink]

I'm kind of surprised no one used them as a distraction at the LVO.