Formula 1 vs Stock car racing

[Broodingman87]

Greetings everyone, I'm creating this thread in the hope that we may have a mature discussion about everything about moter sports. I'm from the southern states where Nascar is big here, but resently there has been an invasion of Formula 1 races, even a documentary where Tony Stewart in a McLaren and Lewis Hamiton in a Chevy raced (Tony's best lap in the F1 car 1:42.685 and Lewis's best lap in the F1 car1:50.209 and Tony's best lap in the stock car 2:18.280 and Lewis's best lap in the stock car 2:11.890). So I figured, why not create a tread talking are the similarities and differances between the two games and cars, as well as American cars vs European cars (because why not).

[ACE01]

Hey Broodingman

There are a few F1 fans on the forum, we're currently discussing F1 over here: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?21399-Formula-1

Being a Brit NASCAR is something I'm not too familiar with though!

[Broodingman87]

Well, that's why I created a seperate thread, I know vary little anout Formula 1 and wanted to talk about both (until that race I had no idea that even existed), so instead of trolling that thread with Nascar stuff, I found it wiser to create one where we talk about both.

[sneakyben]

I live/was born in the UK... and F1 is very dull to watch... No overtaking etc...

I like to watch NASCAR on cable... it is much more interesting; i.e. overtaking :-)

[Wolfshade]

I think the big difference is technicality. Now I don't say this to try and downplay those stock cars, but in F1 it is all about how the rules and regulations can be exploited to produce a phenomenal car. Over the last couple of seasons Red Bull for instance have had spectacular sucess in building cars that use every square inch of the car to its aerodynamic advantage.
It seems to me that the best driver in the world cannot win if they are in a poor car, certainly they can place well, but similiarly, a poor driver in a good car will not prosper.

Now the Nascars are all about winning on the track, whereas F1 is won behind closed doors. The strategy of how to drive, where to attack, how to use the tyres, which body package and how to run the car is very important. There was a race from last season where Vettle had his qualifying lap messed up and then when it came to the race day had a dramatically different race set up, so instead of going for an out and out pace, the car was set up to be more agile and more able to overtake and maneouver.

RedBull made a little info graphic hre which I think is quite a nice summary of the main phyiscal differences.

http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/en_US/NASCAR-vs-Formula-1-infographic/001243283121464

For a watcher though, I think that the Nascar would be more entertaining to watch given the carnage and number of overtakings. Certainly F1 has attempted to make it easier to overtake but the technical challenge of some of the races makes it increasingly difficult to actually stay on teh track and try and overtake,

[Broodingman87]

For a watcher though, I think that the Nascar would be more entertaining to watch given the carnage and number of overtakings. Certainly F1 has attempted to make it easier to overtake but the technical challenge of some of the races makes it increasingly difficult to actually stay on teh track and try and overtake,

Actually, Nascar don't crash that much but, people only remember the races that they did. Now that I'm watching more F1 I'm amazed at how much of a gap there is between cars. And I'm like "what are you doing? close the gap!"

[Wolfshade]

There are two different things, it strikes me and I may be mistaken, that the stock cars seem to be very similiar in terms of handling and performance, whereas the F1 cars are much more diverse. So going into corners for instance the stock cars will all react quite similiar, but the f1s are much more diverse and some need to brake earlier or take a slight different line, so if the car infront needs to brake more then you end up having issues. There is also the aerodynamic effect, so while tucked up behind a car you are in distrubed air so the aero componets actually start to behave not as effectively so you have to balance that with the less drag you face.

Then a final concern is the cost of a crash and the fragility of the f1s.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23832167

[Broodingman87]

There are two different things, it strikes me and I may be mistaken, that the stock cars seem to be very similiar in terms of handling and performance

Well that's partially true, the man differances are under the hood but, the bodies are all the same (a Camry looks like a fusion which looks like an Impala which looks like a Charger, and on and on)

The all short with a factory car, then its taken apart til only the engine and frame remain then, the engine is re-machined to get every drop of horsepower out of it.

[Mud Duck]

RedBull made a little info graphic hre which I think is quite a nice summary of the main phyiscal differences.

http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/en_US/NASCAR-vs-Formula-1-infographic/001243283121464

For a watcher though, I think that the Nascar would be more entertaining to watch given the carnage and number of overtakings. Certainly F1 has attempted to make it easier to overtake but the technical challenge of some of the races makes it increasingly difficult to actually stay on teh track and try and overtake,


Problem with this ad is that it is an AD for F1. Mistruths and playing with numbers to make NASCAR look and sound cheap and 'Hillbilliesish'.

Starting at: Largest fan attendance, Indianapolis has a larger attendance. And the numbers that they give Australian Grand prix 1996 that's for like three or four days! The race day total (wikipedia) 111,000; the 182,000 is an approximation for the 2011 Daytona (the track doesn't release numbers).

Track Layout: Yes, oval and tri-oval tracks are predominant, but it looks to me like there's closer to 5 road courses. "Look at those Rednecks, they only know how to turn left!"

Racing locations: Ah, yes. Looks like someone forgot about the 26 other tracks in 20 other States....

Car characteristics: By the bones of Dale Ernheart! I hope these guys are having fun at this point. Duct Tape to fix things! No, say it isn't so. Oh that's right they use it on F1's as well.
Drawn on highlights? Really, what is that thing again? Oh right, aerodynamics!
Dents? Nope, we call that tradin' paint!
Looks like a 4 door sedan? What part of STOCK car do they not get?
And Home Depot, a paint company?!? Really?
Different types of tires. Got those too.
Majors sponsors, hows Coke, Toyota, McDonald's, and Target sound?
"Look at that steering wheel! It's a circle with three spokes! And here ours looks like a fraking video game controller!" Please! A steering wheel as one function, turning the wheels.

The problem is that is comparing the two is apples to oranges, both have there plus and minuses and are enjoyable to watch.
rant over...

[Wolfshade]

I think it is meant to be slightly toungue in cheek, but 20 tracks all within the same country still less than the 19 countries.

Who is Target? Genuine question, (I don't purport to know who all the f1 sponsors are btw).

I think the sterring wheel is a symbol of the differences, the stock car is focused on the drivers skill and has a simple clear steering wheel, whereas the F1 is all about the technology of the car. You can adjust almost every aspect of the way the car handles and drives through it (bar ride height and angle of aerodynamic devices), so you can shift brake balance front/back, left/right, you can adjust engine out put, so you can downtune the car when in the lead to conserve fuel.

Anyway, that is a bit of an aside: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/25774084


Gene Haas, a key figure in Nascar racing, has expressed an interest in creating a new Formula 1 team.

The co-owner of the Stewart-Haas Racing team has responded to a recent call for potential new teams to come forward.

He is working on the project with Guenther Steiner, previously technical director at Red Bull and Jaguar.

"We have responded to the FIA's call for expression of interest regarding a Formula 1 entry on behalf of Haas Racing Development", a statement read.

[Mud Duck]

Sometimes I wonder Wolfshade, but then again who am I.
Target is a Minnesota based retailer, higher on the food chain then Walmart lower then Macy's. Say around Sears level. The company that just had their POS computers hacked over Christmas, to the tune of 70 million customers card and personal info being stolen.
True, adjustments are handled by the pit crew during stops, so you could say that it isn't just the skill of the drivers, but the communication of the Driver to the Crew Chief and his(her) ability to adjust to track conditions.

[Wolfshade]

Oh, I'm not saying that it couldn't be done, just not as readily.

I think trying to compare them though is like trying to compare football with american football (in some parts known as hand egg) superficially they are the same, but the game is very different.

One thing I do prefer about nascar is the amount of overtaking, we have a similar series "British touring cars" which is more akin to nascar than F1, there normal production cars are raced by professional teams and privateers. The touring cars are less "precious" with the overtaking, often being slightly more "Tradin' Paint" I think you would call it.

[Mud Duck]

So something closer to what we had in the 50/60's, where folks would take Mom and Dad's car to the track on the weekends and go racing.

[Wolfshade]

Not quite, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Touring_Car_Championship) there are tweaks so it isn't faboulusly expensive around £2million for a 2 car team for the season.