katurian
01-12-2014, 08:41 PM
Hey guys
so I had one game now with the new Nids codex and I think I've worked out something that might be fun to play and could win a few games from time to time. I'm curious how you think this would run against you're specific armies and how you'd counter it. Specifically riptide spam and Taudar.
HQ:
Flyrant (200 pts base) with the two Twin-Linked Brain Leach Worms (6 str 6 ap- shots each) at +30 and a haywire template (electroshock grubs) +10 plus the Ymgarl Factor (+1 to save, attack ,or str much change each turn at top of assault phase) 40 pts for a grand total of 295.
Flyrant with AG, Electroshock grubs, and TWBLD for 255
In elites,
three seperate units of 1 zoathropes have Warpblast (2 charges) plus 1 additional power roll each on the Hive Mind table. Mastery 2. Warpblast fires once for each model in the unit and is now a St 10 AP2 lance or st 5 Ap3 blast 18" and 24" respectively.
Troops
vanilla termagants (unchanged) at 120pts
Tervagon with regeneration (195+ 30 for 225).
Now the meat. In Heavy Support A deathstar of three carnifexes each with 2 twinlinked brain leach devourers for a total of 36 twin linked st 6 ap- shots per turn at a base cost of 120 + 30 each) with adrenal glands (fleet + furious charge at 45 pts for all three) and regeneration (30) for a grand total of 585 points.
The flyrants and the crone will deploy behind them flanked by the zoathropes. Theoretically on one table edge or the other but it might be better to run straight up the middle since this is an assault charge and most units can really outshoot 24" range anyway. I'm open to discussion on this. I'm also curious as to the wisdom of going second.
In terms of the important questions for Take All Comers:
1) How will this deal with hordes? The fexes high rate of fire and its high toughness vs horde level strength (3/4 wounding on 6's saving 3+) would give him a good ability to mow down a lot of infantry before it gets close backed up by three AP 3 St 5 basts from the zoathrope and 12 more twin linked shots from the flyrant.
2) How will this deal with elite infantry (TEQ): The only AP2 realistically available to nids outside of the high priced Exorcine and Zoathrope warpblast (three shots with a Deny chance at BS 4) is assault. So the fex star will need to roll into them with its high str HoW and high st (9 or 10) AP close combat attacks. Against hammernators with a 3++ the most realistic option is high rate of fire because in assault the fexes will get torn up from Ap2 hammers then strike at initiative 1 the next turn.
3) How will this deal with Flyers: The Flyrant will have to swat them down with his str 6 shots or a str 7 vector strike. In a flyer list, he'll likely hang back out of LOS to prevent a flyer coming on from dealing him first damage. The zoathropes might have some luck as well with their lances but even at full strength, 9 lances snap firing works out to: 22% to destroy per turn (.83 hull points removed per turn). This is likely the biggest weakness to the list. FMC less so as they can easily be grounded and then engaged by the death star.
4) Against AV14 or high toughness: Assault by the Fex star can easily crack and landraider or take down a T9 MC. Zoathropes can also lance at st 10 ap 2.
5) Against light armor, the flyrant can easily get a rear shot by flying behind it. It can also be lanced from the front on a 2+ or shot to death by the st 6 fex guns if they get close enough. The Flyrants also have a haywire template if St 6 shots or st 7 vectorstrike wont penetrate.
6: Redundancy. The fex star shares some overlap with both hte hive tyrants and the zoathrope. If the fexes fall out of synapse they are fearless so if the tervigon gets sniped, one of the flyrants can dash back to save the gaunts from killing themselves. There are a lot of eggs in one fex basket though at over 585 points over 3 T6 4W models with a 3+
The first thing that jumps out at me is how efficient is this carnifex star at 585 points. in an 1850 game thats a little under 1/3rd of my army neutered in 12 AP2 wounds. THere's also the paucity of scoring in the tervigon and the gaunts but I think the strategy is more deny the other player objectives and sit the tervagon on one and send spawned gants to claim whatever can be and deny the rest.
So the fexes can roll up and unleash their torrent of fire. With some luck, one of the zoathrope squads (1 roll each x 3) or the hive tyrant (2 rolls each) will get Catalyst (feel no pain to caster and another unit) and onslaught (can run and shoot in the same turn). This can work without it but that really becomes a major force multiplier. The fexes move forward 6, run another d6 with reroll from fleet then shoot 18" (giving a 30" maximum threat) supported by hive tyrant fire and any zoathropes that don't have a support power (if suppressing with The Horror which forces a pinning test at -2 or Paroxysm which reduces WS and BS by D3 to a minimum of 1 or the aforementioned Catalyst or Onslaught will cast warpblast if in range. to knock out some armor saves.
In the next turn, the fexes will get shot up as they should be more or less in front and hopefully the scariest thing there but can regen enough wounds not to die in the first round of shooting. With the tyrants following behind, this ball of devourers can put out 60 st 6 ap - shots per turn with 24 of those now being precision shots (from the tyrants who are now characters) If the fexes manage to roll into combat they can really ruin someones day as well with 3 d3 hammer of wrath hits at str 10 with furious charge followed by 15 str 10 ap 2 close combat hits at WS3.
Meanwhile the tervigon and gaunts come in from reserve when they're good and ready and proceed to move up to claim any midfield objectives through spawning and the 30 st 3 AP 5 shots the gants can put out. The tevigon has regeneration so it can tank a few wounds as well.
so I had one game now with the new Nids codex and I think I've worked out something that might be fun to play and could win a few games from time to time. I'm curious how you think this would run against you're specific armies and how you'd counter it. Specifically riptide spam and Taudar.
HQ:
Flyrant (200 pts base) with the two Twin-Linked Brain Leach Worms (6 str 6 ap- shots each) at +30 and a haywire template (electroshock grubs) +10 plus the Ymgarl Factor (+1 to save, attack ,or str much change each turn at top of assault phase) 40 pts for a grand total of 295.
Flyrant with AG, Electroshock grubs, and TWBLD for 255
In elites,
three seperate units of 1 zoathropes have Warpblast (2 charges) plus 1 additional power roll each on the Hive Mind table. Mastery 2. Warpblast fires once for each model in the unit and is now a St 10 AP2 lance or st 5 Ap3 blast 18" and 24" respectively.
Troops
vanilla termagants (unchanged) at 120pts
Tervagon with regeneration (195+ 30 for 225).
Now the meat. In Heavy Support A deathstar of three carnifexes each with 2 twinlinked brain leach devourers for a total of 36 twin linked st 6 ap- shots per turn at a base cost of 120 + 30 each) with adrenal glands (fleet + furious charge at 45 pts for all three) and regeneration (30) for a grand total of 585 points.
The flyrants and the crone will deploy behind them flanked by the zoathropes. Theoretically on one table edge or the other but it might be better to run straight up the middle since this is an assault charge and most units can really outshoot 24" range anyway. I'm open to discussion on this. I'm also curious as to the wisdom of going second.
In terms of the important questions for Take All Comers:
1) How will this deal with hordes? The fexes high rate of fire and its high toughness vs horde level strength (3/4 wounding on 6's saving 3+) would give him a good ability to mow down a lot of infantry before it gets close backed up by three AP 3 St 5 basts from the zoathrope and 12 more twin linked shots from the flyrant.
2) How will this deal with elite infantry (TEQ): The only AP2 realistically available to nids outside of the high priced Exorcine and Zoathrope warpblast (three shots with a Deny chance at BS 4) is assault. So the fex star will need to roll into them with its high str HoW and high st (9 or 10) AP close combat attacks. Against hammernators with a 3++ the most realistic option is high rate of fire because in assault the fexes will get torn up from Ap2 hammers then strike at initiative 1 the next turn.
3) How will this deal with Flyers: The Flyrant will have to swat them down with his str 6 shots or a str 7 vector strike. In a flyer list, he'll likely hang back out of LOS to prevent a flyer coming on from dealing him first damage. The zoathropes might have some luck as well with their lances but even at full strength, 9 lances snap firing works out to: 22% to destroy per turn (.83 hull points removed per turn). This is likely the biggest weakness to the list. FMC less so as they can easily be grounded and then engaged by the death star.
4) Against AV14 or high toughness: Assault by the Fex star can easily crack and landraider or take down a T9 MC. Zoathropes can also lance at st 10 ap 2.
5) Against light armor, the flyrant can easily get a rear shot by flying behind it. It can also be lanced from the front on a 2+ or shot to death by the st 6 fex guns if they get close enough. The Flyrants also have a haywire template if St 6 shots or st 7 vectorstrike wont penetrate.
6: Redundancy. The fex star shares some overlap with both hte hive tyrants and the zoathrope. If the fexes fall out of synapse they are fearless so if the tervigon gets sniped, one of the flyrants can dash back to save the gaunts from killing themselves. There are a lot of eggs in one fex basket though at over 585 points over 3 T6 4W models with a 3+
The first thing that jumps out at me is how efficient is this carnifex star at 585 points. in an 1850 game thats a little under 1/3rd of my army neutered in 12 AP2 wounds. THere's also the paucity of scoring in the tervigon and the gaunts but I think the strategy is more deny the other player objectives and sit the tervagon on one and send spawned gants to claim whatever can be and deny the rest.
So the fexes can roll up and unleash their torrent of fire. With some luck, one of the zoathrope squads (1 roll each x 3) or the hive tyrant (2 rolls each) will get Catalyst (feel no pain to caster and another unit) and onslaught (can run and shoot in the same turn). This can work without it but that really becomes a major force multiplier. The fexes move forward 6, run another d6 with reroll from fleet then shoot 18" (giving a 30" maximum threat) supported by hive tyrant fire and any zoathropes that don't have a support power (if suppressing with The Horror which forces a pinning test at -2 or Paroxysm which reduces WS and BS by D3 to a minimum of 1 or the aforementioned Catalyst or Onslaught will cast warpblast if in range. to knock out some armor saves.
In the next turn, the fexes will get shot up as they should be more or less in front and hopefully the scariest thing there but can regen enough wounds not to die in the first round of shooting. With the tyrants following behind, this ball of devourers can put out 60 st 6 ap - shots per turn with 24 of those now being precision shots (from the tyrants who are now characters) If the fexes manage to roll into combat they can really ruin someones day as well with 3 d3 hammer of wrath hits at str 10 with furious charge followed by 15 str 10 ap 2 close combat hits at WS3.
Meanwhile the tervigon and gaunts come in from reserve when they're good and ready and proceed to move up to claim any midfield objectives through spawning and the 30 st 3 AP 5 shots the gants can put out. The tevigon has regeneration so it can tank a few wounds as well.