FW now legal in gw tournaments.

[Badtucker]

Forge World just put the following statement on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK).


Warhammer World have just announced an update to their Warrior's Code which now allows the use of Forge World rules! You can download the pdf of the Warrior's Code in the link below.

The Warhammer World Events Team are pleased to announce an update to The Warrior's Code, the document used in conjunction with all of our events. We're excited to announce that there's a been a big change in the armies usable at events such as Throne of Skulls, Battle Brothers and more besides. With immediate effect, rules from Forge World, including the Imperial Armour army lists, one off models and the experimental rules are useable at our events, giving you all the more excuse to paint up those cool models in your collection. We've also introduced the use of Scrolls of Binding from Storm of Magic in Warhammer, letting you guys use those awesome big monsters everyone loves! Follow the link below to have a read for yourself. Cheers all The Warhammer World Events Team


http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3720191a_Warriors_Code_2014_V1.4.pdf

[Mr Mystery]

Huzzah!

Now the whining can stop.

Or at least be replaced with a different whine.

[Denzark]

I think this is really good.

[Sly]

Experimental rules? Including the Tau Riptide variant? Bwahahahaaaaa!!!!!

[Demonus]

Yep I still pass on any game that includes an experimental riptide. gw ones are broken enough

[Auticus]

Long time coming. Years. Now there are no excuses why Forge World is "not legal and official".

[DarkLink]

Huzzah!

Now the whining can stop.

Or at least be replaced with a different whine.

We need to ban this crap. Forgeworld is broken. Utterly op. Rabblerabblerabble.

[silashand]

Yep I still pass on any game that includes an experimental riptide. gw ones are broken enough

Yep. Don't mind playing against the normal stuff, but experimental rules are just that. Not sure why they would include those since FW always does experimental rules before releasing a final version later, usually in one of their books.

[Tynskel]

We need to ban this crap. Forgeworld is broken. Utterly op. Rabblerabblerabble.

Exact opposite.
There are plenty of codexes with improperly balanced rules. The solution is for everyone to have access to crazy.

This literally means that people can show up with whatever army they like. And that's a good thing.

[Erik Setzer]

Um... yeah. Go read that rules set. Their events - only at Warhammer World, mind you - allow any model GW makes to be used, including Storm of Magic stuff in Warhammer.

But hey, you want to use their rules as a base for all tournaments? Okay, I'm game.

Do you have models that aren't fully painted? You can't use them.
Do you have conversions that might cause any kind of confusion? You can't use them.
Do you have a model that has bits from non-GW manufacturers? You can't use them.
Do you have proxies? You can't use them.
Are any of your models not entirely WYSIWYG, with the only exceptions being things like grenades and pistols? Well, toss out those models, too.

So congrats! You're able to use any GW-manufactured models and rules, including the completely experimental "We don't care if it's balanced" rules! You're also now kicking out a very large number of players from playing in tournaments.

Total win there, right?

[Defenestratus]

So GW finally codified that which those of us with more than 2 brain cells to rub together figured out years ago. It doesn't matter what book your models' units come from.


Do you have models that aren't fully painted? You can't use them.
Do you have conversions that might cause any kind of confusion? You can't use them.
Do you have a model that has bits from non-GW manufacturers? You can't use them.
Do you have proxies? You can't use them.
Are any of your models not entirely WYSIWYG, with the only exceptions being things like grenades and pistols? Well, toss out those models, too.

Uhh thats a pretty low bar for entry honestly... except for maybe the ban on non GW bitz.

[Popsical]

Not sure what you expect them to do?
They let you use ALL gw fw figs and rules at THEIR venues.
You want to use other figs go elsewhere. Simples.

[Mr Mystery]

We need to ban this crap. Forgeworld is broken. Utterly op. Rabblerabblerabble.

*sigh*

Stay where you are.

I'll go a grab the 'shush' stick

:p

[Mr Mystery]

Um... yeah. Go read that rules set. Their events - only at Warhammer World, mind you - allow any model GW makes to be used, including Storm of Magic stuff in Warhammer.

But hey, you want to use their rules as a base for all tournaments? Okay, I'm game.

Do you have models that aren't fully painted? You can't use them.
Do you have conversions that might cause any kind of confusion? You can't use them.
Do you have a model that has bits from non-GW manufacturers? You can't use them.
Do you have proxies? You can't use them.
Are any of your models not entirely WYSIWYG, with the only exceptions being things like grenades and pistols? Well, toss out those models, too.

So congrats! You're able to use any GW-manufactured models and rules, including the completely experimental "We don't care if it's balanced" rules! You're also now kicking out a very large number of players from playing in tournaments.

Total win there, right?

Well indeed.

It means a lack of Whingey McWhinepants players at tournaments adopting the WW standard.

Sounds pretty win/win for me.

[Sly]

We need to ban this crap. Forgeworld is broken. Utterly op. Rabblerabblerabble.

If you're serious, then I'm with you.

Adding more unbalanced units to a game loaded with unbalanced units does not magically create balance any more than adding random ingredients to soup would magically make it taste great.

It's worse that some of the units are experimental.

It's worse that some of the units have rules in multiple books, and there is no up-to-date compedium listing what book has the latest version of a unit.

And it allows D-Class weapons into 40k, when the rules for D-Class were designed to allow lots of models to be removed really fast from the table, in a game where you fielded several times the points onto the table as in most 40k games. Only idiots would port those rules unchanged into a different game system and expect them to not cause problems, but I'm being less surprised by that every day. Clearly GW's rules and Codex writing has been taken over by Sales and Marketing.

[bfmusashi]

Guys, rabblerabblerabble is a marker of sarcasm and the sound of general and pointless grumbling. I'm also totally fine with tournaments adopting those rules for GW games Erik.

[Jstncloud]

"1. All your miniatures have been produced by
Games Workshop (Citadel, Forge World or
Warhammer Forge).
We do not allow the use of other companies’
models, scenery or conversion kits at
Warhammer World. If we see such a model on
a table, or we suspect that a model falls under
this criteria, then we will politely ask you to
remove it from the table.
It is in your best interests to make sure that you
adhere to this rule as you don’t want to lose any
key units halfway through a game.
If you are unsure then just contact the Events
Team at
[email protected]"

While I agree that proxies are not ok, if I bought muzzle flashes for my Tactical Marine bolters from Armorcast (or whatever conversion bits) I'd like to tell the official to piss off (to be as polite with my feeling as possible). I still bought the GW stock kit AND paid more for some flavor, so long as I am not fielding Deadzone models as Space Marines I think conversions should be fine the old "50%" rule was good enough. Now with this rule basically half my personal models are void because I have resin bases from another company, muzzle flashes from another company and still yet conversion kits from another company as well. Yippie.

[Thaldin]

This is what I don't get...

Folks say that the experimental rules are overpowered and won't play against them. How do these same folks expect "experimental rules" to be changed if they don't play against them and give feedback. Ignore them and then they end up becoming "official rules".

I'm willing to play them, as long as I know I am going in against them and not blindsided by them. We have to, as a player-base, be willing to take the time to occasionally play some games that we wouldn't in order to provide feedback and continue to improve the game we enjoy instead of just sitting behind a monitor and complaining about things we haven't played, played against, or even have in hand yet.

-- edit below --

These forums and others are the faces of the community, how can we expect to attract new players and fresh blood if we are constantly being negative.

[Auticus]

For those that want to use forge world models without having to deal with the hassle of people telling them its not official or legal ... yes it is a total win.


These forums and others are the faces of the community, how can we expect to attract new players and fresh blood if we are constantly being negative.

Totally agree. But then a lot of the negativity and toxic posting are coming from people trying to push the warmachine / infinity / other non GW games agenda so that is their goal.

[Popsical]

Yep. My seige vanguard are now for use anytime anyplace anywhere!
Yup im a happy bunny. Oh and "yah boo sucks to you" to all those no FW bores.

[obs0l3te]

All sounds legit to me.
I hate tournaments where I have to play against a whole Grey Tide army! Or models are primed black with white shoulder pads and red eyes! Specially Orks painted like that....

To many times have I had models that confuse me on to what they are.. "Now what is that again? You mean those are Plague Bearers?!? Why do they look like Zombies?!"

Its a GW event... its always been No proxies or can't use non-gw models. (no change there only issue is models not made by GW i.e. Dark Eldar Fighter jet or when Thunderwolves didn't exist) But hey I'll take that over the Brood Lord Coke can any day!!!

Finally the whole "Oh wait sorry that's really a plasma gun or X weapon not a flamer" good to see that go to.

If you play in tournaments these rules shouldn't be any thing new at all.

And it injects a lot of fun into the game. Gives some armies that have been stuck in the mud a little while a boost... Chaos Marines should be loving life finally now that they can use the Large Lord of War Daemons now! Space Wolves finally have access to some good Anti-Air and fliers. Imperial Guard really can "Crush their enemies under their tank treads" Dark Eldar finally have access to titan killer weapons.

Love what they are doing!!!

[Kevlarshark]

Hooray! The two things I hated most about Chaos Marines are fixed! I now access to drop pods (dredclaws) to make my helbrutes work.... and I can take decent Landraiders! I can even take a flyer that's not a heldrake, yay!

[Badtucker]

Hooray! The two things I hated most about Chaos Marines are fixed! I now access to drop pods (dredclaws) to make my helbrutes work.... and I can take decent Landraiders! I can even take a flyer that's not a heldrake, yay!

God I didnt think of that - dreadclaws. Shame theres no model. Gotta make one now...

[khaiell]

Uhh thats a pretty low bar for entry honestly... except for maybe the ban on non GW bitz.

The bits thing is the single annoying thing in there for me. I get the deal-with-it ban on non-GW models. But chasing unoficial bits is simply low.

Especially for things they don't make, like las-plas razorback turret.

Or purely cosmetic stuff like a tiny parrot glued to a character's shoulder.

[Eldar_Atog]

Uhh thats a pretty low bar for entry honestly... except for maybe the ban on non GW bitz.

The WYSIWYG rule could be an issue for a few weapon options that don't have a model. The Warp Spider Exarch with spinneret rifle or some of the stranger war gear options for a Haemoncolous come to mind.

Not a really big deal for the most part though.

[Kevlarshark]

The WYSIWYG rule could be an issue for a few weapon options that don't have a model. The Warp Spider Exarch with spinneret rifle or some of the stranger war gear options for a Haemoncolous come to mind.

Not a really big deal for the most part though.

There aren't any model bits for a lot of the Chaos demon weapons either. I play in the Gw tourneys 2 or there times a year... Apart from the new bit about forge world, the Warriors code is just a refinement of the rules they have always had in place. The rules tend to be really strict on paper but a bit more flexible in person.

I have seen all sorts of crazy conversions, scratch builds, non GW bits and so forth, but providing they didn't take the piss and followed the rule of cool. Then the events staff were generally ok with it.

I myself used the chapterhouse wheeled conversion kit on my chimeras...I brought another chimeras in case the events staff didn't allow it, but the only comment I got from the events guys was how nice a model it was.

I have only once seen anyone asked to remove models, and he had an elder viper that had just been spray painted gold and had no crew or gunner!

Some forget that the GW tourneys are entertainment, people pay to play. So the events staff want it to be as enjoyable as possible. People will not come if they feel the rules are restrictive/unfair or that the staff are dicks. So really they will do everything they can to make sure you can play and enjoy.

[LordGrise]

::Calvin-and-Hobbes-style evil grin:: Y'all worry about Riptides??? Two words: Remora spam.

[Popsical]

Right.
Now to plan my assault on finishing absolute last in ToS later this year!
At last.
I wonder about the effect this will have on other tournie orgs.
Onward and upward!

[Mr Mystery]

The bits thing is the single annoying thing in there for me. I get the deal-with-it ban on non-GW models. But chasing unoficial bits is simply low.

Especially for things they don't make, like las-plas razorback turret.

Or purely cosmetic stuff like a tiny parrot glued to a character's shoulder.

Your house your rules. My house my rules. GW's house GW's rules. And so on and so forth.

[silashand]

How do these same folks expect "experimental rules" to be changed if they don't play against them and give feedback. Ignore them and then they end up becoming "official rules".

I don't have a problem playing against them, just not in an event where there are winners and losers. I would prefer at least a modicum of playtesting be done before allowing what amount to simple brainstorming in a competition. Otherwise it's no better than "L00k!!! I madez this waaaaay k00lz new unit that has like -you know- a bazillion bolters and a lazthingy. I can use it, right?"

[DarkLink]

If you're serious, then I'm with you.


I was being sarcastic. I've played in half a dozen tournaments with Forgeworld allowed, and seen the results from a dozen more, and trust me, it doesn't make one bit of difference. Forgeworld has a handful of very good units, but virtually nothing other than Str D that is legitimaly broken, and banning Str D (which should be done anyways) is the answer, not banning Forgeworld. I've played with and against Forgeworld enough that I find the idea that it is OMFGBROKEN laughable.

Edit: Experimental rules really don't count.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Just picked up IA2 redo as well as a sicaran for my Son's and the fire raptor and a unit of boarding marines. honestly nothing in those purchases is broken or will drastically shift the game for me. what they will do is make playing against me interesting. you'll get to see a few forge world kits some nicely painted mini's ( not really though but i try) and in the end there will be a winner and a loser but a fun time had by all. the fact that finally there will be an end to the you can't bring this or that unit or use thos rules they aren't TO legal will be at an end. so far that i say thank you GW. Seriously thank you I'm looking forward to 2014 and being able to use my entire model collection instead of only a portion of them because some day some where some one lost to a forgeworld unit and screamed cheese. :)

[Sly]

I was being sarcastic. I've played in half a dozen tournaments with Forgeworld allowed, and seen the results from a dozen more, and trust me, it doesn't make one bit of difference. Forgeworld has a handful of very good units, but virtually nothing other than Str D that is legitimaly broken, and banning Str D (which should be done anyways) is the answer, not banning Forgeworld. I've played with and against Forgeworld enough that I find the idea that it is OMFGBROKEN laughable.

Edit: Experimental rules really don't count.

Well, okay... if you're not including D-Class and the R'Varna suit as proper, then I'm mostly fine. I have some doubt about the Sabre platforms being at all balanced, and also the Necron Acanthrites, but it's not nearly as big as the issue with D-weapons and the R'Varna.

Frankly, other than broken rules like those, I'd LIKE to see people more able to use more of the stuff that they bought.

Well, and if GW got a clue and figured out how to make rules more accessible... how far back is a Forgeworld book legal? What if a unit from IA1 is not updated in any further IA, is it legal? How about a list from a book older than Codex: Eye of Terror? Does it mean that I can use Speed Freaks, since they're from an official GW publication? If not, why is that illegal but a unit from an older FW book acceptable?

The concept of "use everything" is fine. GW's implementation of that concept is back-asswards. They should have a compedium of legal lists from all sources, and of outdated and illegal lists and units (if any... they may be serious about "anything goes"). And, more importantly, they should have a list of where updated rules may exist for a unit... what if I run a Dread Mob ork list, and use the Lifta-Droppa? That thing is ridiculous in its original format, but I heard that it got updated. But what if I have a book, pull it out, and point to the original rules? How would I, or my opponent, know that it got updated?

[Pssyche]

"...And, more importantly, they should have a list of where updated rules may exist for a unit... what if I run a Dread Mob ork list, and use the Lifta-Droppa? That thing is ridiculous in its original format, but I heard that it got updated. But what if I have a book, pull it out, and point to the original rules? How would I, or my opponent, know that it got updated?


There is just such a list for older models.
It's called the Contents Page for Imperial Armour Apocalypse which came out in August 2013.
It's like as if they thought "Hang on a minute, people might just want all these old models' Rules updating and collecting together in one place..."

There's even a scan of the Contents Page amongst the example pages provided on their website, as they have done since Aeronautica and Imperial Armour 11: The Doom of Mymeara.

Here's a Link...

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Armour_Books/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_APOCALYPSE.html

[Vangrail]

Woo i can use all of my fw toys lol. I have some for every army. Forge world isn't broken. You pay the points you buy the more expensive models and then you have buy another book. I hated the complainers before they are just mad they couldn't have any. Now they can shut up!

[DarkLink]

There are a few very good units, to be true, but there's nothing on the level of stuff like the rerollable 2++. Sabers and thudd guns are very good, but I've played against them enough that I certainly wouldn't call them broken. Artillery in general should just be T5, but if you get into assault with it, it dies. It's not unmanageable, unless maybe you play horde orks/nids.

[John Bower]

Did I miss something? Was there a news flasth that EA took over GW at some point... Pay to win?

[Popsical]

Ok. Theres a serious lack of spleen venting going on.
The sky has fallen on a usually very vocal group of FW haters.
Must be a bumper weekend for the samaritans!

[DarkLink]

Did I miss something? Was there a news flasth that EA took over GW at some point... Pay to win?

You must have missed the memo.

But seriously, if you think forgeworld is some magical easy button... then I'm just going to assume that you haven't actually played with much forgeworld. Seriously. It's not a big deal. Even of the handful of genuinely powerful forgeworld units, discounting experimental rules and anything with str D, there is nothing in all of forgeworld that is as absurdly potent as some of the stuff in regular 40k like the Seer Council. Yes, there are a few very good forgeworld units. Yes, they are expensive. No, you don't autowin because you took forgeworld. Heck, I've been to a half-dozen tournaments that allowed forgeworld, and guess what, not a single forgeworld unit in the winner's lists that I know of, and certainly no forgeworld spam.

[Popsical]

I went with a mate to a tournie that allowed FW, i took codex GK list and he took FW ork dread mob list.
A few very vocal posters on the associated forum of the tournie complained bitterly that FW was unfair/broken/busted and push button/spend money to win.
Result: i finished 2nd. My mate finished 2nd to last.

Yeah busted as heck that eh?

But the haters wont let reason and common sense change their minds.
You gotta wonder why it hurts their feelings so much.
After all its only a bloody game.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm with Popsical. It's a game.

If your overall placing in a tournament is that important, perhaps this isn't the game for you :)

[DarkLink]

Why do you always assume anyone who complains is doing it because they're waac?

[Pssyche]

are all the fw books for use with 6th edition, as some on the fw site mention updated 6th Edition rules in the description, while others do not?

The Rules for older models, e.g. 5th Edition and prior, up to and including Imperial Armour 11 were collated and updated for 6th Edition in the Imperial Armour Apocalypse book in August.
(Imperial Armour 12 I am unsure of as I don't collect those armies, but it came out in 6th Edition so I would expect those are still valid)
The Rules for 6th Edition Flyers had the same treatment in the book Aeronautica around a year earlier.
So your go to books for 6th should be Imperial Armour Apocalypse and Aeronautica.
My copies go everywhere my army case goes along with my Eldar Codex and Rulebook.

If you look on the website there is usually, for the more up to date books, a picture of the book cover and some smaller sample pages.
The sample pages usually include the Contents page.
If you click on that picture, you will enlarge it and you should be able to read what's in it.

[Mr Mystery]

Why do you always assume anyone who complains is doing it because they're waac?

Because they're so concerned with their placing?

[DarkLink]

You do this all the time. Seems like when someone complains about something, you seem to be like "stop trying to win and just have fun", as if there's somehow something wrong with having an opinion of everything GW does that isn't all stars and rainbows and sunshine, and as if there aren't a lot of people who have fun by trying to win, because for a lot of people, competition makes the game much, much more fun.

I mean, I'm not trying to flame you or anything, I'm just kinda like 'dude?'.

[Mr Mystery]

Just seems every whine relates back to tournaments, even though the game hasn't been designed that way.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

But it is a game by definition, games are meant to be fun...

[MMM]

And every games needs a winner by default. ;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

But if you aren't having fun what is the point?

[MMM]

And fun is different for everyone.

To some people fun means thrashing the opponants army as fast and good they can, no matter the cost.
To some people fun means playing scenarios with given forces.
To some people fun means having a balanced game where a point value stands for balance.
To some people fun means just to assemble and paint miniatures.
... .

This is the reason why people can only agree to disagree on certain topics concerning tabletop.

This goes for rules, miniatures, painting and army building.

An example:
I had a person who didn´t want to play me because my army included a non-GW miniature. In my eyes a pathetic narrow point of view, but in his eyes a totally valid point of view.

And this happens especially on the internet, where all sorts of different point of views meet as one can see on any internet forum (this concept should be applicable on basically any forum).

PS
During not one of my 200+ tournament games I had a bad gaming experience. The only bad ones happened during non-tournament games. But this is just an anecdote.

[Deadlift]

But if you aren't having fun what is the point?

For some it's "fun" to win. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not my way of playing 40k but I can understand those that want to test their skills in a competitive environment with like minded folks.

Some people just are competitive by nature and if they are also 40k players well why not ? I'd rather have a laugh rolling the dice with friends much like your good self, enjoy the game and good company.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I shudder when I have to play WAAC players in campaigns, because they throw a hissy fit if things don't go their way.

[Gutzmek]

In regards to forge world O.P. ness no one has ever had a problem with my grotzooka toting Grot Tanks, I did have one complaint about the Grot mega tank but that's because of the split fire shenanigans that he had apparently forgotten about half way through a game. Love FW stuff, they have been good to all aspiring Meks (and grots) out there

[Pssyche]

what if I run a Dread Mob ork list, and use the Lifta-Droppa? That thing is ridiculous in its original format, but I heard that it got updated. But what if I have a book, pull it out, and point to the original rules? How would I, or my opponent, know that it got updated?


By the way Sly, the Ork Dread Mob Army List is available for Download on the Forge World Website and it includes a list of all the Lords of War that are available to them.

Hope you enjoy it!

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I love this move. I have two FW units and don't think are more powerful then the points i pay for them. They will allow me to play a type of army that i could not with out them. I can see a down side but the positives >>>>> the negatives, by far.

[Popsical]

The downside being, the small but highly vocal group of players on their quest to find balance in tournaments, moaning.

[Pssyche]

The downside being, the small but highly vocal group of players on their quest to find balance in tournaments, moaning.

They remind me of the Black Knight in "Monty Python & the Holy Grail".
Not only will they not admit defeat in the face of all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they'll then go to absurd lengths to continue fighting their cause.

[Popsical]

Yeah, or sir lancelot as he stops sir galahad facing the perils of the castle of virgin girls.
Those perils look great but you mustnt touch!