Copy Of Tyranid Codex In Hand

[iNcontroL]

Let me list the armies in 40k and Warmahordes:

Dark Angels
Blood Angels
Grey Knights
Space Wolves
Space Marines
Chaos Marines

Tau
Eldar
IG
Chaos Daemons
Nids
Orks
Dark Eldar
Sisters

14 factions, unless I'm missing one. Of those, 6 are all various Space Marines, and really should be three books. Effectively 11 unique factions. Of those, Nids, Orks, and Sisters are generally pretty bad, Tau, Eldar, and Daemons ROFLStomp everyone they play,

Warmahordes has:

Cygnar
Protectorate
Khador
Cryx
Convergence
Retribution
Mercenaries

Trollbloods
Circle
Skorne
Legion
Minions

12 factions, none of which are just a carbon copy of another faction with a different paint scheme and a few unique special characters. They all have very unique playstyles and units. There's no 'well, my Tactical Marines have Hit and Run'. And Warmahordes factions aren't small, either, other than Convergence, which came out only a few months ago. In fact, PP regularly releases new units, without forcing customers to buy a new, overpriced book every time, and they don't pull any bull**** shennanigans where they nerf the old units and make the new units awesomesauce so you're pushed to buy a whole new army. We don't know anyone who does that all the time, do we?

Cryx has, as I count it, 64 units, not counting unique character unit variants on standard units, nor unit attachments or weapon attachments. Cygnar also has 64. Protectorate and Khador are just as large. The unit count of Grey Knights? Like 25. Do any 40k factions have 60+ units? I wouldn't be surprised, but your claim that 40k is somehow a unique snowflake and that makes it impossible to balance is pretty blatantly unfounded.



I am not saying that 'everyone plays Marines, 40k is dumb'. I am saying, 40k isn't as diverse, and Warmahordes isn't as small-time, as you seem to think. And Warmachine is objectively much more balanced than 40k is. It openly embraces competitive gameplay, but you can play perfectly casual games with it. The end result is, everyone has more fun, because the rules are of a higher quality. Stuff is more balanced, victory is determined more by player skill than by optimized lists, and there are far fewer rules quandries. And, hey, when there is a rules question, PP actually answers them. A company that actually cares about providing customer support? Who'da thunk it?

You forgot
Necrons ;)

[daboarder]

LOL!

FC and fleeting Skyslashers for 20 pts....HAHAHA

nope nevermind

[Ang56]

Just got done reading my codex, is in english. Happy to answer specifics and look things up, I was pretty worried about it following the forums the last few days. After reading it, it isn't really what I was hoping for but I feel a lot better about it after reading the whole thing, much better then previous codex. Several of the units I haven't fielded in a long time look interesting again. Lots more ap 2 then I was expecting. Pretty jazzed about spore mines being ap4 large blasts since 2 of my friends regularly play eldar and tau. And as far as I can tell if you miss with the spore mines it spawns d3 mines that can then assault the missed unit in your assault phase same turn they are spawned. you risk snapfire loss with a miss but potentially hit at higher strength.

Btw some of the information posted wasn't exactly accurate, or more it's like it was summarized and then posted leaving things out. Something that came to mind also as to leaving something out while posting the warlord trait roll of 1 that allows you to turn jungle, forest or wood terrain into carnivorous. You do that every movement phase, not just once, and the terrain remains carnivorous for the game, so if you happen to be playing with trees you can turn a significant portion of the board into carnivorous by the end of game. Isn't really great but better then I thought after reading the trait table post here.

I like the synapse tables, they seem more forgiving then previously being out of synapse and in certain circumstances even beneficial if you roll well like feed units out of synapse that fail ld check on a 6 get rage and the only restriction is they cant shoot before charging. or prefered enemy for hunt units. Even the seek cover does not force the unit to run to cover, you retain control and move them normally. They just cannot fire weapons unless in cover or moved back into synapse.

I'll be on for a bit tho, and as I said happy to copy specific things.

[evilamericorp]

Happy to answer specifics and look things up

If you could please confirm, There are no special Force org changes, we can't ally with ourselves, and the trygon didn't get any special rule letting it deep strike on the first turn?

[Ang56]

If you could please confirm, There are no special Force org changes, we can't ally with ourselves, and the trygon didn't get any special rule letting it deep strike on the first turn?

Sorry it took so long I was checking again to make sure I didn't miss it, says "proceed to picking your army following the guidelines given in the BRB" in the using the army list section, there is nothing about it in the rules page that address generic army rules like shadow in the warp, synapse etc. so no force org change and no reference to allies at all.

Trygon and Mawloc both have Deep Strike is all, the addition rules only cover the reserve tunnel and scattering minimum safe distance over mishapping.
Mawloc rule only covers the blast.

[DarkLink]

I like the synapse tables, they seem more forgiving then previously being out of synapse and in certain circumstances even beneficial if you roll well like feed units out of synapse that fail ld check on a 6 get rage and the only restriction is they cant shoot before charging. or prefered enemy for hunt units. Even the seek cover does not force the unit to run to cover, you retain control and move them normally. They just cannot fire weapons unless in cover or moved back into synapse.

I'll be on for a bit tho, and as I said happy to copy specific things.

I think the biggest problem with synapse is that you don't get much benefit for being in it, other than 'your models don't kill themselves'. Fearless is good, but it doesn't do you any good if you just get killed outright or can't do much damage. If you could, say, hand out the benefits of stuff like adrenaline glands and the like or something, that would be a pretty sick mechanic on par with Battle Focus or Supporting Fire.

[evilamericorp]

Sorry it took so long I was checking again to make sure I didn't miss it, says "proceed to picking your army following the guidelines given in the BRB" in the using the army list section, there is nothing about it in the rules page that address generic army rules like shadow in the warp, synapse etc. so no force org change and no reference to allies at all.

Trygon and Mawloc both have Deep Strike is all, the addition rules only cover the reserve tunnel and scattering minimum safe distance over mishapping.
Mawloc rule only covers the blast.

Thanks!

And thank you too, GW!

[DarkLink]

You forgot
Necrons ;)

Bah, no one likes those stupid guys anyways...

[Ang56]

I think the biggest problem with synapse is that you don't get much benefit for being in it

Agree for sure, I miss it giving immunity to instant death. That's been a while tho. Just meant previous codex, especially when fearless gaunts suffered additional wounds in CC, synapse seemed to be more harming then helpful. After reading these tables I don't think it's really bad or good. most cases units cant shoot and assault in same turn. For or lurking units only, if they fail Ld check and roll poorly they break like a normal unit. Otherwise I still retain control they just can't shoot or assault pending their type. and possibly gain a minor buff out of a failed Ld check.

Did the Prime always give his WS/BS to warrior units he joined? I don't have my old codex here, I don't remember him doing that but I didn't really run a prime before so not sure.

[evilamericorp]

Did the Prime always give his WS/BS to warrior units he joined? I don't have my old codex here, I don't remember him doing that but I didn't really run a prime before so not sure.

Yes, but he couldn't join them in a pod, so nobody ever used it.

[Ang56]

Is too bad Old one eye isn't an upgrade to fex brood, 220pts, comes with regen, adaptive biology (FnP after first wound), an generates additional atks on successful to hit rolls.

[DarkLink]

You're forgetting that GW is a "gateway" hobby, you don't discover Warmahordes first. You discover Games Workshop first.
There are no stores in the towns and cities selling exclusively Warmahordes, there isn't a demand for it. Know why? Because Games Workshop are the number one seller of wargames products, Privateer Press don't even come close to the revenue that Games Workshop produces.

This isn't fanboyism, this is fact. If it wasn't, then there would be Privateer Press shops everywhere.

As for answering rules questions and customer support, I've always had a response within the week, so I don't know who you're talking to but you're barking up the wrong tree.

Then there's skill. Yes, you can argue that there are power lists in 40k, but I have beat those power lists over the years using strategy; which is a thing that people often forget. You can out-skill your opponent, you just have to know your army and how to manipulate your opponent's army.
Remember that at the end of the day, all it is is a dice roll. The roll of a 1 can ruin anyone's day, regardless of game system.

I'm not forgetting anything, I'm just pointing out that the idea that the idea that 40k is 'too big to balance' is utter nonsense. 40k does get the most players, but warmahordes has a lot of players as well, and the game itself has just as many, if not more, units and factions, and the gameplay is honestly far more complex tactically and strategically than 40k, and there's plenty of evidwnce that it is much, much more balanced than 40k. It can be done. GW just needs to actually put a little effort into it. That also isn't to say that skill matters in 40k, because it does.

You can beat power lists, youve done it, I've done it, that's not the point. The game is objectively better for both casual and competitive players without power lists.

[katurian]

What does it say about the modifier to leadership under the horror? The glare blocks it out a bit.

Codex just dropped on ibook.

Will look up anything that hasn't been said if it's helpful to anyone just let me know.

[katurian]

Codex just dropped on ibook.

Will look up anything that hasn't been said if it's helpful to anyone just let me know.

Also its -2

[daboarder]

Is too bad Old one eye isn't an upgrade to fex brood, 220pts, comes with regen, adaptive biology (FnP after first wound), an generates additional atks on successful to hit rolls.

I was interesteed in OOE, then realised he doesnt have Adglands so is too slow

[Ang56]

if he had adglands and didnt take an hq slot he'd be pretty good. I didn't know about his generating extra attacks on hit before reading his entry was all. made me think it over again.

was excited about deathleaper changes like a lot, but he also takes an hq slot. sooo, maybe in smaller games i guess.

would have prefered the named ones were all upgrades to thier respective broods like the red terror is.

[fedratsailor]

was just taking a look at IA apoc 2nd ed. and the malanthropes I think might be a huge bonus for their points. cost 110, comes in broods of 1-3, 4 wounds each toughness5 with regen included. somewhat cheep synapse with I5 3 attacks move through cover and fleet. yea they are an HQ choice but they might actually have a use this edition.

[daboarder]

if he had adglands and didnt take an hq slot he'd be pretty good. I didn't know about his generating extra attacks on hit before reading his entry was all. made me think it over again.

was excited about deathleaper changes like a lot, but he also takes an hq slot. sooo, maybe in smaller games i guess.

would have prefered the named ones were all upgrades to thier respective broods like the red terror is.

yeah Deathleaper and OOE lose out a lout being HQs

[Ang56]

I like a lot of things in this book, there are a few things that make me wonder wth they were thinking.

Venomthropes giving shroud was gonna make me use them again even if they still only last a turn or two on the table. Shrouding bubbles for the start of the game was a pretty good change. They come in a squad tho. You don't buy 3 and they move around alone. If you want that, it's 3 elite slots....

The range needed to be higher if I can't spread them out.

[Caldera02]

Venomthropes also only affect "Models" within 6 inches, so not one model of a unit within 6. So not as good anymore.

A quick note I found on the Instinctive behavior that was not translated, or at least I didn't see it, is they you don't take an IB test if you are falling back already, gone to ground, in combat or just arrived from reserve.

[Ang56]

Venomthropes also only affect "Models" within 6 inches

It does indeed say that...

Plus side, starting to think that hormagaunts and BS/LW warriors assaulting together with Initiative stepped CC this edition is a cool thing. warriors would make their I7 ap3 atks and have the I5 gaunts slide in to the space made to soak the returning I4 or less attacks. Giving the warriors a little cheap protection and quite a few extra gaunt quality attacks in the process.

I guess you could do the same with lictors but they dont really have the teeth warriors with bs/lw have, wouldnt really clear out much space. Also this is assuming I'm fighting I4 or less units. Also assuming I can get them across the board relatively intact w/o pods.

[Duke_Mantis]

Can the Hive Tyrant now purchase Mastery Psych levels to obtain level 3?

[Ang56]

Can the Hive Tyrant now purchase Mastery Psych levels to obtain level 3?

No, base 2 no upgrade option. Swarmlord is 3.

[daboarder]

Venomthropes give shrouded to models, yes

Units only need a single model with shrouded for the whole unit to benefit

[dannymiles]

Venomthropes give shrouded to models, yes

Units only need a single model with shrouded for the whole unit to benefit

I want to field 170 models 1775 point games. They will give my massive zerg rush a chance. I don't know a single army who can deal with that many models.

[dannymiles]

I don't think my Swarm army was hurt by the Codex. Throwing 60 Gargoyles, 90 termagaunts, 90 Hormaguants was not hurt by this codex. I love giving my opponent a Starship Troopers experience.

[Ang56]

I want to field 170 models 1775 point games. They will give my massive zerg rush a chance. I don't know a single army who can deal with that many models.

Doesn't have to be 1800 pt game, you could field 2 flyrants, 180 gaunts, and a brood of 4 shrikes for 1240 pts. let their 1250 pt list deal with 186 models (2 being FMC) and at least you'd have some synapse. Not really my thing. But you can swarm for not a lot of pts.

[daboarder]

just a had game., I think tevigons still have their place, but the role is different,

[Ang56]

just a had game., I think tevigons still have their place, but the role is different,

They arent terrible even with nerfs. psy power will be hit or miss but they are a pretty durable troop choice to throw on an obj. they still generate gaunts, provide a synapse node and if lucky the psychic could be really useful. And seeing as everyone thinks they are so bad now maybe they wont be a focal point and actually score.

It's the 195 price tag that makes me unsure about them. Curious about what role you're thinking.

[daboarder]

Just keep your gants nowhere near them. 12 is huge

I dont know if theyll hold up well long term though but being able to replenish loses is still valuable

[Tynskel]

Let me list the armies in 40k and Warmahordes:

Dark Angels
Blood Angels
Grey Knights
Space Wolves
Space Marines
Chaos Marines

Tau
Eldar
IG
Chaos Daemons
Nids
Orks
Dark Eldar
Sisters

14 factions, unless I'm missing one. Of those, 6 are all various Space Marines, and really should be three books. Effectively 11 unique factions. Of those, Nids, Orks, and Sisters are generally pretty bad, Tau, Eldar, and Daemons ROFLStomp everyone they play,

Warmahordes has:

Cygnar
Protectorate
Khador
Cryx
Convergence
Retribution
Mercenaries

Trollbloods
Circle
Skorne
Legion
Minions

12 factions, none of which are just a carbon copy of another faction with a different paint scheme and a few unique special characters. They all have very unique playstyles and units. There's no 'well, my Tactical Marines have Hit and Run'. And Warmahordes factions aren't small, either, other than Convergence, which came out only a few months ago. In fact, PP regularly releases new units, without forcing customers to buy a new, overpriced book every time, and they don't pull any bull**** shennanigans where they nerf the old units and make the new units awesomesauce so you're pushed to buy a whole new army. We don't know anyone who does that all the time, do we?

Cryx has, as I count it, 64 units, not counting unique character unit variants on standard units, nor unit attachments or weapon attachments. Cygnar also has 64. Protectorate and Khador are just as large. The unit count of Grey Knights? Like 25. Do any 40k factions have 60+ units? I wouldn't be surprised, but your claim that 40k is somehow a unique snowflake and that makes it impossible to balance is pretty blatantly unfounded.



I am not saying that 'everyone plays Marines, 40k is dumb'. I am saying, 40k isn't as diverse, and Warmahordes isn't as small-time, as you seem to think. And Warmachine is objectively much more balanced than 40k is. It openly embraces competitive gameplay, but you can play perfectly casual games with it. The end result is, everyone has more fun, because the rules are of a higher quality. Stuff is more balanced, victory is determined more by player skill than by optimized lists, and there are far fewer rules quandries. And, hey, when there is a rules question, PP actually answers them. A company that actually cares about providing customer support? Who'da thunk it?

This is such a bunk argument. Games Workshop has Warhammer, Wahammer 40k, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, Apocalypse (for Warhammer, 40k, and Lord of the Rings), multiple expansions for all systems. There are ~10x the amount of miniatures and rules than privateer press.

Interwebz lookz upz Failz.

[Mr Mystery]

Also misses the general flaw in Warmahordes, that it's all variation on a theme.

GW at least try to inject genuine variety into their armies. Warmahordes? Oh look. Your army has similarly shaped big robot things painted a different colour to mine which fulfil a similar function more or less.

[Eldar_Atog]

This is such a bunk argument. Games Workshop has Warhammer, Wahammer 40k, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, Apocalypse (for Warhammer, 40k, and Lord of the Rings), multiple expansions for all systems. There are ~10x the amount of miniatures and rules than privateer press.

Interwebz lookz upz Failz.

Actually, DarkLink makes a more compelling arguement than you do. I have always been impressed by PP customer support and gaming community. They seem to really go out of their way to give their gamers good rules and consistent FAQ's.

GW has a habit of letting an army wither for a decade without throwing them a bone. Have a rule inaccuracy in your codex? You'd better get ready. It might not be addressed till the next codex comes out. Having trouble dealing with those new flyers that the newer codexes have? Don't worry... I'm sure you'll only have to wait 2 or 3 years before your new codex comes out.

GW has a lot of good things going for it... but their rule sets and community support leave a lot to be desired.

[Tynskel]

Actually, DarkLink makes a more compelling arguement than you do. I have always been impressed by PP customer support and gaming community. They seem to really go out of their way to give their gamers good rules and consistent FAQ's.

GW has a habit of letting an army wither for a decade without throwing them a bone. Have a rule inaccuracy in your codex? You'd better get ready. It might not be addressed till the next codex comes out. Having trouble dealing with those new flyers that the newer codexes have? Don't worry... I'm sure you'll only have to wait 2 or 3 years before your new codex comes out.

GW has a lot of good things going for it... but their rule sets and community support leave a lot to be desired.

Hahah! Load of bunk. There are half a dozen expansions to solve those issues. Oh wait, TOs think those aren't real...

[Eldar_Atog]

Hahah! Load of bunk. There are half a dozen expansions to solve those issues. Oh wait, TOs think those aren't real...

So Space Wolves have access to a plastic flyer now?

[Tynskel]

Forgeworld. Done.
As I said, there are half a dozen expansions.

By the way, no flyers in codex = Space Wolves. Fluff!!! They have the bare minimum of flyers (aka forgeworld) because they don't like to fly.

[Arkhan Land]

as much as I love WarmaHordes, itll never be no 40k, cant say I dont love watching my Ridley Scottish Aliens battle my Lucasesque Stormtroopers and Mind Trick personailty characters while demons resembling little satans and an army of things that look like the Terminator gang up to eat the Elf-Quest Vulcans of the far future

[Tynskel]

as much as I love WarmaHordes, itll never be no 40k, cant say I dont love watching my Ridley Scottish Aliens battle my Lucasesque Stormtroopers and Mind Trick personailty characters while demons resembling little satans and an army of things that look like the Terminator gang up to eat the Elf-Quest Vulcans of the far future

Annnnnnnnnnd that's why we play 40k.

[Martyn Powell]

Venomthropes also only affect "Models" within 6 inches, so not one model of a unit within 6. So not as good anymore.

A quick note I found on the Instinctive behavior that was not translated, or at least I didn't see it, is they you don't take an IB test if you are falling back already, gone to ground, in combat or just arrived from reserve.

Just in case this hasn't been answered Venomthropes have and give Shrouded to models within 6" of the venomthrope model... The shrouded rule states that in a unit if at least 1 model has the shrouded rule the whole unit received +2 to its cover save.

[Eldar_Atog]

Forgeworld. Done.
As I said, there are half a dozen expansions.

By the way, no flyers in codex = Space Wolves. Fluff!!! They have the bare minimum of flyers (aka forgeworld) because they don't like to fly.

Actually, you have the fluff mixed up. They don't like to teleport. They are cool with their Thunderhawks.

And I don't count Forgeworld kits that cost $250 dollars and have 500-600 points value. Try again...

[Bigred]

OK, folks, the fat lady is singing...

Tyranids are out.

Lets move the gameplay and tactics conversations over to the various other forums.

We have to make room in here for IG after all :)