Poll: Who got the BEST Chapter Tactics?

[Bigred]

We've had the book for a few months?

Let's talk Chapter Tactics

So who got the best deal and why?

Black Templars
Imperial Fists
Iron Hands
Raven Guard
Salamanders
Ultramarines
White Scars

[sgtpjbarker]

For me the heart of the SM army is the bolter, so re-rolling 1s come all the time and everywhere. The tank hunter is great too, but I see it much less.

[Vangrail]

Iron hands for me. The it will not die has saved so many of my dreadnoughts and vindicators. Then the feel no pain helps alot too.

[Desert Rat]

In my club I'm known for breaking the laws of probability and rolling ones like no one else. It almost feels like bolter drill was made just for me.

[Archon]

So who got the best deal and why?

This is not easy. Mostley I See

Imperial Fists - This is what my friend plays. Sadly I like this set for my IW (tankhunter). Bolterhits are maximized and the guys with the heavys get TH - fine thing


Iron Hands - fnp for all (even only on 6 but fnp anyway) and vehicles with more hp and regenration - coool if you play mecha-heavy


White Scars - gruesome turnament-trait, grav lists anyone? take WS with their chiefmongo ... get high strength attacks w/bikes 4 free and don´t care for dg.terrain


Raven Guard - hmm hitnrun and the like fine thing but ... a little meh

Salamanders - is okay if you play them stylish an have a lot of flamers involved, gets a bit "über" if vulkan is on board

Ultramarines - here I think you have the best, okay you get this traits only on three turns, but when you get them, you get the right thing:

you came in bolter rapid range and whoop sync. those TTs, you will go close and personal - yepp here we got, you have to move with your devas to get this side armour - all right


Black Templars - this is stylish, but i hear only complaining about them ... but i don´t like BT anyway :D

[confoo22]

Black Templars - this is stylish, but i hear only complaining about them ... but i don´t like BT anyway :D

You hear complaining because this is the "close combat" set of chapter tactics made even worse by the fact that they have the best benefit when in a challenge, which is a rare occurrence in most games. These tactics are definitely the least competitive, but sort of a fun set because it encourages you to at least try to challenge your opponent.

I voted Iron hands myself, definitely the better set that can work for a large variety of armies, not just bolter spam and bike armies the way that IF and WS are, respectively.

PS: Black Templars don't need your adoration, heretic!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ultramarines.

No argument.

[euansmith]

Grey Fists: "And They Shall Know No Paint" is the best Trait EVER!

[DWest]

I vote White Scars, because their Chapter Tactics are the best integrated with their playstyle-- Kor'sarro Khan makes Bikes Scouting and Scoring, and the CTs all buff bikes. On the other end of the spectrum are the Raven Guard, who got what I feel are the worst Chapter Tactics, because they're set up specifically at cross purposes. You have one buff that improves Bikes and Jump Infantry (the Shred for Hammer of Wrath), and a signature character who is Jump Infantry, and then their other abilities (the Stealth and Scout) which specifically exclude Bikes and Jump Infantry.

After playing several games with them, Ultramarines actually feel quite mediocre. The Tactical Doctrine is nice, but having to activate it at the start of turn means you don't know, for example, if a Deepstriker has landed where you need it to be when you activate it. Assault Doctrine is tied to assault, something the Ultramarines neither favor nor shun, but the Devastator Doctrine is actually worse for the intended unit; rather than being able to re-roll Snap Shots (at, oh, say a Heldrake), you gain Relentless. Really, the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is "I get to use Tigerus and Telion".

[chicop76]

Honestly I voted Vulcan cause I like twin linked meltas and flamers.

Anyway I wouldn't say any are better than the other really. It really depends on your play style. If you like a bunch of bikes than white scars is a no brainer. If you like to run mech and hard to kill characters than you play iron hands, etc.

I can see a reason to play them all really.

[DarkLink]

Ultramarines aren't bad, but they're not the best. "Takes skill to use" is not a keyword for powerful, generally.

Iron Hands and White Scars are the best, depending on what type of list you're running. Hit and Run is great on any infantry, IWND is great on units like the Chapter Master or vehicles.

They're pretty well balanced overall, though. Vehicles aren't so tough to kill that IWND becomes silly, Hit and Run doesn't matter if you just straight up kill all the Marines in the units, and other than BT and RG, all the other CTs are good in the right army. BT just don't get any really useful abilities, and RG suffer from some aforementioned issues, not to mention that RG armies tend to promote taking some of the worst units in the codex to match that playstyle. WS CTs are just blatantly better than RG CTs.

[DaveTycho]

I'd have to go with Iron Hands too, with Ultramarines second. At least this time Ultramarines get some distinct rules. It'd be even better for the Ultra's if GW could make some cool plastic minis for them too

[Mr Mystery]

I'm quite fond of the Ravenguard Chapter Tactics myself.

Increased Hammer of Wrath for Jump Packs. Jump Pack benefits for movement and assault, and everyone else gets sneaky stuff.

Lovely.

[Anggul]

It depends on how you build the army. Most of the Chapter Tactics are good, but only when you really think about them when building your army.

[Cactus]

I think Iron Hands got the most useful chapter tactic, although Salamanders and White Scars can really stack their army construction along with a special character to min/max a powerful list.

[DarkLink]

I'm quite fond of the Ravenguard Chapter Tactics myself.

Increased Hammer of Wrath for Jump Packs. Jump Pack benefits for movement and assault, and everyone else gets sneaky stuff.

Lovely.

RG would be great if assault Marines weren't so... mediocre, and/or if they removed the no bulky scouts restriction.

[DWest]

I really think the RG rule should have applied to Jump Infantry, and/or if they ever start doing FAQs it will get changed. It still denies you the turn 1 charge, but it helps their iconic unit actually do its job. And/or FW need to finish updating Shadow Captain Korvadye.

[chicop76]

I really think the RG rule should have applied to Jump Infantry, and/or if they ever start doing FAQs it will get changed. It still denies you the turn 1 charge, but it helps their iconic unit actually do its job. And/or FW need to finish updating Shadow Captain Korvadye.

You can assault on game turn 1. You just can't assault on the first turn.

[deinol]

You can assault on game turn 1. You just can't assault on the first turn.

Actually, there is nothing that says you can't assault on the first turn. Although it usually requires your opponent to foolishly infiltrate/scout too close.

[Power Klawz]

I think you just can't assault on the very first turn if you scouted or infiltrated, for obvious raisins.

[chicop76]

If you scout or infiltrate before the game begins you can't assault on the first turn of the game. However on the second turn the second half of the game turn you can assault. Meaning if you go second and survive a full turn of shooting or assaults, than you will be able to assault game turn one if you are in range to do so.


Which mean strike and his unit can possibly assault in the 1st game turn. What you can do is put a fortification in the middle of the board to block line of sight and place them behind it. What's important is that you remember that the middle is 12" from deployment and the fortification has to be 1" away from the middle and you have to consider width of the fort as well. If you can scout and infiltrate than that's pretty deadly since you can easily set up 12" away from the enemy by using a fort in that manner.

[DarkLink]

What deinol is saying, though, is that if you're going first, and you don't scout, you can assault. Your opponent has to get within the 18/24" range you need to actually reach them, but if they​ scout, you can still assault as long as you yourself didn't.

[stevenkperry]

I am definitely a dissapointed RG player and am not ashamed to whine some. I will leave it to the community to berate me as appropriate.

If we are specifically talking Chapter Tactics, then I believe Iron Hands was first. However it is difficult to separate Chapte Tactics from the special characters that enhance an army since you can no longer proxy characters like 5th edition. Once you include Korsarro Khan, then the White Scars win hands down. When he is riding his bike, he is FIFTY (50) points cheaper than the previous codex and they even improved his ARMY wide buff from just Outflanking to Scout. That last change stomps all over the RG chapter tactics. As they get all of their Chapter Tactics, plus 1/3 of the RG and can do it even better since they can do it with Scouting Centurions/Terminators in Land Raiders. Sure they need Khan to do it and they need to be mounted, but again he is 50 points cheaper. Is the ability to Scout on foot really much of an advantage by comparison when the WS regular bikes can do it and only the RG Scout bikes can?
Shrike is 10 points cheaper and gained Stealth, but lost any Army wide buff.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Stealth rule and especially the Jump Pack rule are extremely flavorful and awesome, but it would have been nice if at least Shrike could have ignored dangerous terrain to avoid spraining his ankle when charging into a building with their awesome jump pack assault rules.

But forget everything I explain above, because for me it isn't really about power level. It's about the weird restrictiveness of the RG tactics and the fact that, with the exception of a jump pack unit, the RG don't get to be RG for the whole game. RG only get to be the RG for the first turn of the game. The rest of the game, they are just marines painted black. All the other chapters, from Turn 1 through turn 7 get to say "look what I can do, isn't it neat?" I know the Ultramarines have three one use rules, but they can at least use them when they choose and wait for a ripe tactical moment, and also get the most special characters.
The other thing is that most units either are restricted from the RG tactics, or already have it as part of their special rule.
Would Stealth for the whole game, or at least turn 1 for all units been so broken? I still am puzzled at the choice the auther made for them.

Oh well, rant over. Thanks in advance for your comments.
Here's hoping that the RG supplement will add some new cool things. Perhaps Shrike's wing.

Thanks,

Steven

[John Bower]

I voted Iron hands but Fists came out well too. heck even the Ultras did well out of this release....

[deinol]

I am definitely a disappointed RG player and am not ashamed to whine some. I will leave it to the community to berate me as appropriate.


As a Raven Guard successor, I would be sad. Except someone at ForgeWorld loves me because the Raptor chapter tactics are excellent. My sternguard can fire 30" rending shots. Pew-Pew

[Hamilton86]

What about blood angels? My all time favourite space marine chapter, no mention of space wolves or dark angels too

[deinol]

What about blood angels? My all time favourite space marine chapter, no mention of space wolves or dark angels too

None of those have Chapter Tactics in the Space Marine Codex, which is what this thread is about. Although I expect Space Wolves and Blood Angels will get updated Chapter Tactics to match when they are updated to 6th edition.

[chicop76]

I am definitely a dissapointed RG player and am not ashamed to whine some. I will leave it to the community to berate me as appropriate.

If we are specifically talking Chapter Tactics, then I believe Iron Hands was first. However it is difficult to separate Chapte Tactics from the special characters that enhance an army since you can no longer proxy characters like 5th edition. Once you include Korsarro Khan, then the White Scars win hands down. When he is riding his bike, he is FIFTY (50) points cheaper than the previous codex and they even improved his ARMY wide buff from just Outflanking to Scout. That last change stomps all over the RG chapter tactics. As they get all of their Chapter Tactics, plus 1/3 of the RG and can do it even better since they can do it with Scouting Centurions/Terminators in Land Raiders. Sure they need Khan to do it and they need to be mounted, but again he is 50 points cheaper. Is the ability to Scout on foot really much of an advantage by comparison when the WS regular bikes can do it and only the RG Scout bikes can?
Shrike is 10 points cheaper and gained Stealth, but lost any Army wide buff.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Stealth rule and especially the Jump Pack rule are extremely flavorful and awesome, but it would have been nice if at least Shrike could have ignored dangerous terrain to avoid spraining his ankle when charging into a building with their awesome jump pack assault rules.

But forget everything I explain above, because for me it isn't really about power level. It's about the weird restrictiveness of the RG tactics and the fact that, with the exception of a jump pack unit, the RG don't get to be RG for the whole game. RG only get to be the RG for the first turn of the game. The rest of the game, they are just marines painted black. All the other chapters, from Turn 1 through turn 7 get to say "look what I can do, isn't it neat?" I know the Ultramarines have three one use rules, but they can at least use them when they choose and wait for a ripe tactical moment, and also get the most special characters.
The other thing is that most units either are restricted from the RG tactics, or already have it as part of their special rule.
Would Stealth for the whole game, or at least turn 1 for all units been so broken? I still am puzzled at the choice the auther made for them.

Oh well, rant over. Thanks in advance for your comments.
Here's hoping that the RG supplement will add some new cool things. Perhaps Shrike's wing.

Thanks,

Steven


Than for a mere 40 points any army that takes Inquisition can kill Khans scout move. Wait I meant 34 points sorry, or Tau with a bunch of kroot can stop the pregame scouting.

Other than many other reasons I don't think white scars is the so called best. However it's pretty silly not to take bikes as white scar bikers, ignore cover, hit and run, and +4 jinx saves. Come on.

I do feel iron hands is stupid good. Simply due to the marines can have a really hard to kill chapter master and you have to deal with it will not die. Through him with some bikes and the squad have feel no pain, good luck dealing with that garbage.

That's. You have salamanders which gets silly, I mean they are somewhat flame resistant really. Than you have tank hunting centuries deep striking from ravens not scattering.

I think if I was gonna say what is the worst trait it would probably be black Templars. Raven guard I hear is the worst, but you don't have to pay a tax to have scout.

I think the wtf comes from is from mixing chapters like White Scars and Iron Hands.

[chicop76]

I am definitely a dissapointed RG player and am not ashamed to whine some. I will leave it to the community to berate me as appropriate.

If we are specifically talking Chapter Tactics, then I believe Iron Hands was first. However it is difficult to separate Chapte Tactics from the special characters that enhance an army since you can no longer proxy characters like 5th edition. Once you include Korsarro Khan, then the White Scars win hands down. When he is riding his bike, he is FIFTY (50) points cheaper than the previous codex and they even improved his ARMY wide buff from just Outflanking to Scout. That last change stomps all over the RG chapter tactics. As they get all of their Chapter Tactics, plus 1/3 of the RG and can do it even better since they can do it with Scouting Centurions/Terminators in Land Raiders. Sure they need Khan to do it and they need to be mounted, but again he is 50 points cheaper. Is the ability to Scout on foot really much of an advantage by comparison when the WS regular bikes can do it and only the RG Scout bikes can?
Shrike is 10 points cheaper and gained Stealth, but lost any Army wide buff.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Stealth rule and especially the Jump Pack rule are extremely flavorful and awesome, but it would have been nice if at least Shrike could have ignored dangerous terrain to avoid spraining his ankle when charging into a building with their awesome jump pack assault rules.

But forget everything I explain above, because for me it isn't really about power level. It's about the weird restrictiveness of the RG tactics and the fact that, with the exception of a jump pack unit, the RG don't get to be RG for the whole game. RG only get to be the RG for the first turn of the game. The rest of the game, they are just marines painted black. All the other chapters, from Turn 1 through turn 7 get to say "look what I can do, isn't it neat?" I know the Ultramarines have three one use rules, but they can at least use them when they choose and wait for a ripe tactical moment, and also get the most special characters.
The other thing is that most units either are restricted from the RG tactics, or already have it as part of their special rule.
Would Stealth for the whole game, or at least turn 1 for all units been so broken? I still am puzzled at the choice the auther made for them.

Oh well, rant over. Thanks in advance for your comments.
Here's hoping that the RG supplement will add some new cool things. Perhaps Shrike's wing.

Thanks,

Steven


Than for a mere 40 points any army that takes Inquisition can kill Khans scout move. Wait I meant 34 points sorry, or Tau with a bunch of kroot can stop the pregame scouting.

Other than many other reasons I don't think white scars is the so called best. However it's pretty silly not to take bikes as white scar bikers, ignore cover, hit and run, and +4 jinx saves. Come on.

I do feel iron hands is stupid good. Simply due to the marines can have a really hard to kill chapter master and you have to deal with it will not die. Through him with some bikes and the squad have feel no pain, good luck dealing with that garbage.

That's. You have salamanders which gets silly, I mean they are somewhat flame resistant really. Than you have tank hunting centuries deep striking from ravens not scattering.

I think if I was gonna say what is the worst trait it would probably be black Templars. Raven guard I hear is the worst, but you don't have to pay a tax to have scout.

I think the wtf comes from is from mixing chapters like White Scars and Iron Hands.

[DarkLink]

Kahn is overrated. White Scars are still very good.