So what happened to all the Ork Rumours then???

[pseudodelic]

I am a devoted and committed Ork player and I get the feeling that Orks are the poor ninth cousin fifteen times removed of all the other races in 40k. It's either some new unit of space marines, bloody nids or chaos and even blasted Dark Eldar... I am seriously concerned that when the new Ork codex comes out this year it will be weak, trite and pointless and even further nerfed and exponentially removed from the Orks of Ere We Go and Waaagh Da Orks and Freebooterz... are there any other Ork players out there who feel let down and ignored both in the over al nerfing of our Boyz and the reduced selection of models we can purchase from GW? It is only the likes of Kromlech, Spellcrow, Basicks and the like that are keeping the Orks interesting and grounded. Yes I know Forgeworld are making some great stuff but if the Ork Klans got the support and background (all of which is available from the early codices) then they could be blood brother allies with each other and have units of Mad Boyz and Storm Boyz and Odd Boyz that fit with the individual Klans and would have special Klan only abilities and vehicles. This would broaden both the range and the appeal of the Orks and take them back to their formative years when they were much more Orky than they seem to be now...

[Tyrendian]

is there any basis for your doom and gloom approach to the upcoming codex or are you just impatient?... the last three codices GW put out were all roughly on a comparable power level - and at the top of the scale at that... if and when Tyranids continue that trend, I´d assume GW have learned their lessons from the mediocre DA and Chaos and will continue to give us at least good stuff for all the races - and hey, you won´t even have to wait until seventh edition like CSM to get a new ´dex...

[Houghten]

We gots a Bommer last year, di'n't we?

Dunno wot yoo'z grumblin' about.

[chicop76]

I complained when Orcs was updated for 5th in mind and Tau wasn't, man the tables have turned. Anyway thinking about it I think the last real 4th edition codex was Tau and than Orcs, Eldar, CSM, Daemons made 4.5 and Marines, Guard, Space Wolves roughly came next. I don't expect Grey Knights, Neurons and Dark Eldar any time soon due to them being 5.5 codecs with 6th in mind.

Thinking about the trend they seem to be following with updating the oldest material first in 6th the Orcs seem to be skipped over with Marines, Guard, and Nids. However CSM skipped over a few armies when they came out in 6th. Looking at the other codecs they been following the oldest first rule and marines would be an exception as well. I really wouldn't complain unless Space wolves and Blood angels come out before Orcs.

[chicop76]

I am a devoted and committed Ork player and I get the feeling that Orks are the poor ninth cousin fifteen times removed of all the other races in 40k. It's either some new unit of space marines, bloody nids or chaos and even blasted Dark Eldar... I am seriously concerned that when the new Ork codex comes out this year it will be weak, trite and pointless and even further nerfed and exponentially removed from the Orks of Ere We Go and Waaagh Da Orks and Freebooterz... are there any other Ork players out there who feel let down and ignored both in the over al nerfing of our Boyz and the reduced selection of models we can purchase from GW? It is only the likes of Kromlech, Spellcrow, Basicks and the like that are keeping the Orks interesting and grounded. Yes I know Forgeworld are making some great stuff but if the Ork Klans got the support and background (all of which is available from the early codices) then they could be blood brother allies with each other and have units of mad Boyz and Storm Boyz and Odd Boyz that fit with the individual Klans and would have special Klan only abilities and vehicles. This would broaden both the range and the appeal of the Orks and take them back to their formative years when they were much more Orky than they seem to be now...

Didn't notice the Dark Eldar comment. Dark Eldar was a 2nd edition codex that jumped to 5.5 with 6th edition in mind. Only other codecs that was worst off would be Dark Angels who was 2nd that jumped to 6th edition, they may had a 3rd update., or we can talk about witch hunters/ sisters of battle/ adapetas sororities, what ever. Sisters are the red headed step child. Looking at Orcs which last update was geared for 5th I don't see how you can complain since you are only one edition behind the curve.

[nathaneal246]

Thought there was chatter a while back about a joint release of Guard and Orks which was sometime in the spring!

[pseudodelic]

I still believe that the Orks are under represented... they are rarely even mentioned. I know that GW is a Space Marine Centric organisation after all they are their baby. Rogue Trader was all space marines. However you look at the Ork codices from day one and they have been eroded. I would love to ally Orks with Orks with Klans being individually listed. I have been an Ork player in 40k since 1988 and I feel I have a good grasp of what GW have done to the Orks overall. I will be very surprised and delightedly so if the Orks' Codex is released this year closer to how they were in the early 90's in the three Ork "bibles" Waagh, Ere We Go and Freebooterz. Orks need that sort of depth again rather than the light and flimsy Orks we have in 5th edition and no I don't mean their lists I refer to their Orkishness and Kultur... I may be on my own here but like I said I have followed them since 1988 and feel that they have been denuded, degraded and defiled. I am not impatient I am just saddened that my Orks are just not how they used to be... Bring back Ork Kultur and a broad rounded deep and comprehensive background and history. This is a personal view but I will be surprised if I am the only Ork player who feels let down...

[pseudodelic]

is there any basis for your doom and gloom approach to the upcoming codex or are you just impatient?... the last three codices GW put out were all roughly on a comparable power level - and at the top of the scale at that... if and when Tyranids continue that trend, I´d assume GW have learned their lessons from the mediocre DA and Chaos and will continue to give us at least good stuff for all the races - and hey, you won´t even have to wait until seventh edition like CSM to get a new ´dex...

What doom and gloom? I am bemoaning the loss of depth not the army lists per se... I expect the army list will improve but I doubt the orkishness will.

[pseudodelic]

I complained when Orcs was updated for 5th in mind and Tau wasn't, man the tables have turned. Anyway thinking about it I think the last real 4th edition codex was Tau and than Orcs, Eldar, CSM, Daemons made 4.5 and Marines, Guard, Space Wolves roughly came next. I don't expect Grey Knights, Neurons and Dark Eldar any time soon due to them being 5.5 codecs with 6th in mind.

Thinking about the trend they seem to be following with updating the oldest material first in 6th the Orcs seem to be skipped over with Marines, Guard, and Nids. However CSM skipped over a few armies when they came out in 6th. Looking at the other codecs they been following the oldest first rule and marines would be an exception as well. I really wouldn't complain unless Space wolves and Blood angels come out before Orcs.
I am not complaining about how long or timings it is more to do with substance and back story and depth of the NARRATIVE we are always being told to develop....

[pseudodelic]

We gots a Bommer last year, di'n't we?

Dunno wot yoo'z grumblin' about.

I am not complaining about equipment I am complaining more about narrative being matched by army list e.g. Bad Moons not allying with Death Skullz and Snakebites having Wild Boyz and Evil Sunz being speed freaks but Storm Boyz more inclined to being Blood Axes... and not just paint schemes ORK KULTUR....

[Ben_S]

Didn't notice the Dark Eldar comment. Dark Eldar was a 2nd edition codex that jumped to 5.5 with 6th edition in mind.

Dark Eldar didn't even exist in 2nd. It was 3rd where they were introduced in the box set. They then had to wait until late in 5th for a new 'dex, but I think theirs was the last of the regular 5th edition Codexes, before GKs/Necrons, which were written with 6th in mind. At least, GW must have known that 6th was in the works, but it was far enough from finished that it's final form could hardly have been taken into account and DE got well and truly messed around by a number of the changes in 6th.

EDIT: I do miss the old Ork Klans, but I don't see why you'd want them to be separate lists that have to ally, like chapter tactics. It seems to me that you're better served being able to take (Deathskull) Lootas, (Evil Sunz) bikers, (Blood Axe) Kommandoz, etc all in the same list - and you have flexibility, because perhaps not all Lootas are Deathskulls.

[chicop76]

Thinking about it doesn't Orcs have flyers and decent anti air?

[Houghten]

They do, they do. There are three really good anti-air units in da kodex:
1). Dakkajets wiv an extra twin-linked supa-shoota an' a Flyboss
2). A big unit of Lootas
3). A units of Grots - OK, not by themselves, but when they're standing next to a quad-gun (I represent my Aegis Defence Line and Quad-Gun with a set of Ork Barricades and a Flakka-Dakka Gun)

Re. codexes being written with the next edition in mind: Dark Eldar? Definitely not. They were nearly two years before 6th dropped. And I genuinely believe that if Orks had been written with 5th in mind, even as close to its release as they were, Meganobz wouldn't have had Stikkbommz, a piece of wargear that did nothing for them through the entire edition.

Something else I'm confused about: when did Orky Kultur ever go away?

[eldargal]

The rumours were read, so they went faster...

[Gotthammer]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/e157e77fc8ae78de5807906a84a2d462/tumblr_mokcihJOju1svn9hfo1_400.gif

[SaveModifier]

Orky ness hasn't really been eroded, its still there, they've just got rid of some of the more humourous elements, like Mad Boyz, but Mad Boyz disappeared in the 2nd Edition Codex, you can still make a Klan list, but you do it yourself rather than through rules, possibly we'll get some klan rules in the new codex, but personally, as an ork collector of 18 years, I'm happy enough without them

[deinol]

Chapter Tactics did a lot toward customizing marine armies and making the "vanilla" chapters have variety. It seems reasonable to expect they'll do something interesting with Orks when they hit. I hope IG gets regiment doctrines to do something similar as well. Seriously, since the "warm-up" codices at the beginning of 6th, all the codices in 2013 were solid, interesting, and customizable. I have high hopes for the next few books.

[chicop76]

Chapter Tactics did a lot toward customizing marine armies and making the "vanilla" chapters have variety. It seems reasonable to expect they'll do something interesting with Orks when they hit. I hope IG gets regiment doctrines to do something similar as well. Seriously, since the "warm-up" codices at the beginning of 6th, all the codices in 2013 were solid, interesting, and customizable. I have high hopes for the next few books.

I have to ask what about them blood angels. I have played against more orcs in 6th than blood angels. It's like the Blood Angels died off in a hole somewhere.

[SaveModifier]

I have to ask what about them blood angels. I have played against more orcs in 6th than blood angels. It's like the Blood Angels died off in a hole somewhere.

Well, there are only 1000 Blood Angels in the galaxy where there are billions of Orks

[deinol]

I have to ask what about them blood angels. I have played against more orcs in 6th than blood angels. It's like the Blood Angels died off in a hole somewhere.

That's what you get for demanding a special snowflake codex. I'm sure they'll be back in style again when they get a 6th edition codex, although current rumors seem uncertain if they or Space Wolves get to be next. Of course, I'm still of the opinion that all marines should just be supplements to a main marine codex. How many times do we need to reprint the same stats? And then when core units get updated you don't have to wait years to get new vehicles and units into the "special" chapters. But I'm not their target market, so my opinion doesn't count for much.

[chicop76]

That's what you get for demanding a special snowflake codex. I'm sure they'll be back in style again when they get a 6th edition codex, although current rumors seem uncertain if they or Space Wolves get to be next. Of course, I'm still of the opinion that all marines should just be supplements to a main marine codex. How many times do we need to reprint the same stats? And then when core units get updated you don't have to wait years to get new vehicles and units into the "special" chapters. But I'm not their target market, so my opinion doesn't count for much.

If it was up to me marines would have one codex, unless they was grey knights. I mean in reality orcs, guard, CSM, and Eldar are armies that can easily have as many extra codecs out there like the marines do. I was surprised the angels got a codex anyway, blood angels I mean. They had the sisters treatment for awhile.

Like I said earlier I wouldn't complain about Orcs unless Blood Angels or even Dark Eldar get a codex update.

[Rothgar]

Didn't notice the Dark Eldar comment. Dark Eldar was a 2nd edition codex that jumped to 5.5 with 6th edition in mind. Only other codecs that was worst off would be Dark Angels who was 2nd that jumped to 6th edition, they may had a 3rd update., or we can talk about witch hunters/ sisters of battle/ adapetas sororities, what ever. Sisters are the red headed step child. Looking at Orcs which last update was geared for 5th I don't see how you can complain since you are only one edition behind the curve.

Dark Eldar were 3rd. They were the first for 3rd (they were in the box set). and the only complain for the orks right now.... they are the grandfather codex right now. (sisters do have a PDF codex)

[Rothgar]

What doom and gloom? I am bemoaning the loss of depth not the army lists per se... I expect the army list will improve but I doubt the orkishness will.

Actually with the growing trend for the Epub additional lists. (Sentinels of Terra suppliment) I could entirely see them putting out one for each of the clans. If you think about it this way... the Epubs cost them basically nothing to produce and they charge a small fee (almost pure profit) They are going to be milking that for a long time. And there are some very good stories and background fluff in the ones i've picked up.

[GrauGeist]

If it was up to me marines would have one codex, unless they was grey knights.

Even GK should be under primary Codex SM. They just have more extensive Chapter Tactics.

[DarkLink]

Really? Because they literally have nothing in common with Space Marines beyond Str/T4 and power/terminator armor. There's no way to make any of the vanilla SM infantry units into Grey Knights without swapping out half their weapons, wargear, multiple special rules, stat points, etc. I mean, I'm a big advocate of sticking all the SM armies into one codex, but unless you want to have completely unique unit entries for every single non-vehicle GK unit, you simply can't do it. And the whole point of incorporating the SM books into one is to eliminate all of those duplicate entries until you've only got one or two genuinely unique units.

This isn't Black Templar, who are mostly only unique for Chapter Tactics and their Initiate/Crusader setup, plus the Emperor's Champion. Two unique units and one special rule. Grey Knights, though, have Grand Masters, Brotherhood Champions, Inqusitors, Paladins, Purifiers, Strike Squads, Interceptors, Purgation Squads, Dreadknights, The Aegis, Brotherhood of Psykers, a plethora of unique psychic powers, Psybolt Ammo, Storm Bolters on everything, Psycannons, Psilencers, Incinerators... I can go on.

[chicop76]

Really? Because they literally have nothing in common with Space Marines beyond Str/T4 and power/terminator armor. There's no way to make any of the vanilla SM infantry units into Grey Knights without swapping out half their weapons, wargear, multiple special rules, stat points, etc. I mean, I'm a big advocate of sticking all the SM armies into one codex, but unless you want to have completely unique unit entries for every single non-vehicle GK unit, you simply can't do it. And the whole point of incorporating the SM books into one is to eliminate all of those duplicate entries until you've only got one or two genuinely unique units.

This isn't Black Templar, who are mostly only unique for Chapter Tactics and their Initiate/Crusader setup, plus the Emperor's Champion. Two unique units and one special rule. Grey Knights, though, have Grand Masters, Brotherhood Champions, Inqusitors, Paladins, Purifiers, Strike Squads, Interceptors, Purgation Squads, Dreadknights, The Aegis, Brotherhood of Psykers, a plethora of unique psychic powers, Psybolt Ammo, Storm Bolters on everything, Psycannons, Psilencers, Incinerators... I can go on.


You have to forgive him. Since they changed Grey Knights into cut and paste marines with really awesome gear, people think they are just another marine army.

I do miss WS5 2 attacks always, strength 6 weapons, ignore invulnerable saves, higher leadership, fearless, etc. Got to love that Mystic, Sage Combo and BS 4 plasma warriors, with cheaper plasma guns.

[Bail Ohmar]

I too am a bit pessimistic about the upcoming Codex. Just a gut feeling it will get messed up.

Personally I love the current Codex because that's where I started in 40K and I now have around 7000pts of Orks that I don't want nerfing. Current Codex is still solid. I've had some of the most fun games ever in the last few weeks including one where I tabled Blood Angels.

So, come on GW, prove me wrong. Give us an awesome Ork Codex. :)

[Sainhann]

I still believe that the Orks are under represented... they are rarely even mentioned. I know that GW is a Space Marine Centric organisation after all they are their baby. Rogue Trader was all space marines. However you look at the Ork codices from day one and they have been eroded. I would love to ally Orks with Orks with Klans being individually listed. I have been an Ork player in 40k since 1988 and I feel I have a good grasp of what GW have done to the Orks overall. I will be very surprised and delightedly so if the Orks' Codex is released this year closer to how they were in the early 90's in the three Ork "bibles" Waagh, Ere We Go and Freebooterz. Orks need that sort of depth again rather than the light and flimsy Orks we have in 5th edition and no I don't mean their lists I refer to their Orkishness and Kultur... I may be on my own here but like I said I have followed them since 1988 and feel that they have been denuded, degraded and defiled. I am not impatient I am just saddened that my Orks are just not how they used to be... Bring back Ork Kultur and a broad rounded deep and comprehensive background and history. This is a personal view but I will be surprised if I am the only Ork player who feels let down...

The biggest thing going against the Orks in 40k is the Force Composition Chart.

Being limited to just 6 total Troop choices they cannot shine as the army from 20 years ago.

They have lost the most of any armies other than Squats.

Mad Boys - gone
Gretchins - rarely seen
Goffs - gone
Bad Moons - gone
Blood Axes - gone
Snakebites - gone
Death Skulls - gone
Evil Suns - gone

Today they are just Orks.

They need to have a troop structure similar to Imperial Guard.

My 2,000 point Imperial Guard force has the max of six troop choices. 3 x Veteran Squads, 1 x Mech Infantry platoon, 1 x Assault Platoon & 1 x Heavy Support Platoon plus several detachments of Heavy and Special weapon support. Total number of Squads for the Veterans and platoons are 12 and 3 Cmd Sections or 135 Guardsmen.

Orks need this same structure so that they can build detachments that can be a useful as my Imperial guard.

Doing this I might even be able to field my 130 Gretchins that I own.

But if they don't they will remain as one of the bottom tier armies because they can't do what they should be doing and field a horde type army that will put fear into their opponents.

[Matt High]

The biggest thing going against the Orks in 40k is the Force Composition Chart.

Being limited to just 6 total Troop choices they cannot shine as the army from 20 years ago.

They have lost the most of any armies other than Squats.

Mad Boys - gone
Gretchins - rarely seen
Goffs - gone
Bad Moons - gone
Blood Axes - gone
Snakebites - gone
Death Skulls - gone
Evil Suns - gone

Today they are just Orks.

They need to have a troop structure similar to Imperial Guard.

My 2,000 point Imperial Guard force has the max of six troop choices. 3 x Veteran Squads, 1 x Mech Infantry platoon, 1 x Assault Platoon & 1 x Heavy Support Platoon plus several detachments of Heavy and Special weapon support. Total number of Squads for the Veterans and platoons are 12 and 3 Cmd Sections or 135 Guardsmen.

Orks need this same structure so that they can build detachments that can be a useful as my Imperial guard.

Doing this I might even be able to field my 130 Gretchins that I own.

But if they don't they will remain as one of the bottom tier armies because they can't do what they should be doing and field a horde type army that will put fear into their opponents.



Orks.

Structure.

In the same sentence?

[Veteran Sergeant]

We gots a Bommer last year, di'n't we?

Dunno wot yoo'z grumblin' about.
Pff, every release is an Ork release.

[Renegade]

Simply use the 'cron codex for Orks. Necron tech + Big Mek and Pain boy = shenanigans.

[deinol]

Orks.

Structure.

In the same sentence?

Like it or not, the codex implies a structure. But they could easily make a Mob you buy similar to a Guard platoon that would allow a ton squads in one slot. We'll see if GW agrees in ~4 months. (Hopefully.)

[Veteran Sergeant]

I could see a structure like that. I'd rather see Orks go back to BS3, WS3 like they used to be. Then suddenly you don't need 80 billion of them anymore and the army can be fun and shooty again.

[Houghten]

Pff, every release is an Ork release.

Funny you should say that, as I'm currently drawing up planz to loot an Exocrine...

[Gutzmek]

I for one currently have pretty high hopes for the upcoming ork dex, here is why, really the only love the orks have gotten since the 4th edition codex has been something that I love to play around with, which is the Dread Mob, I know it's forge world however take a look at there latest update. You can take a looted wagon as a dedicated transport for your lootas (I know it's not as good as lootas being troops like back in 2nd edition) not to mention the text under the grot tanks, and grot mega tanks, saying the can both be taken in a regular ork army list as elites and fast attack respectfully. I hope to see something like the mega dread make the cross over as well but one can only hope for so much. So you take 3 parts grot tanks 2 parts mega tank a whole lotta grots and some killa kanz and bring back good ol' Wartsnaga oh could really put together a rather fun grot army. Just what I'm hoping for. Ok almost forgot to mention orks have some great choices for Lords of War, not just the stompa, look at the Squigoths and the various kill tanks that are available I think you can upgrade the kill bursts to a SD 5" template if I am remembering correctly. I think the new ork dex will be a lot of fun probably not OP but the last thing I want is to get all of those band wagoners jumping on the battlewagon.

[Rothgar]

not to mention the text under the grot tanks, and grot mega tanks, saying the can both be taken in a regular ork army list as elites and fast attack respectfully. I hope to see something like the mega dread make the cross over as well but one can only hope for so much. So you take 3 parts grot tanks 2 parts mega tank a whole lotta grots and some killa kanz and bring back good ol' Wartsnaga oh could really put together a rather fun grot army. Just what I'm hoping for. Ok almost forgot to mention orks have some great choices for Lords of War, not just the stompa, look at the Squigoths and the various kill tanks that are available I think you can upgrade the kill bursts to a SD 5" template if I am remembering correctly. I think the new ork dex will be a lot of fun probably not OP but the last thing I want is to get all of those band wagoners jumping on the battlewagon.
The Grot army has been done. :P 2500 pts and has 25 armour units, and about 160-180 infantry (can't remember exact numbers). It is an fun glass cannon army. I also include 3 Dakkajets with the improved BS (they are grots) to add a GrotWaffe to the ground mounted GrotzKrieg. 3 jets with 9 TL 6/4 shots at BS 3 (4 vs ground targets) each and double that for the 1 round you activate the waaagh.... also another fun addition from FW. The grot sponsons. 5 points each for a side mounted big shoota at BS 3 (that might fall off), and incidently can be added to the above Grot tanks (because they are ork vehicles with the 'tank' classification). so an example squad ... 3 grot tanks with 2 grot sponsons each and a big shoota in the turret, 1 kommanda tank with 2 big shootas and 2 sponsons = 39 36" 5/5 shots at BS 3 for 195pts.

And considering the way they are going with the Epub lists. I could entirely see a Wartsnagga coming back as a special attachment with modified grot stats. Also... Each of the clans getting one (a'la Blood angels, Farsight Enclave). And saying they had fluff back in the 2nd ed codex is only partially true, Some unit selections did not reflect that. Orks love things that go 'boom' yet, the 2nd ed codex, there was not 1 artillery piece that went 'boom'. and the rules aren't at least horrible slanted against orks either (anyone remember mission cards? Virus Mine that would kill hordes, and only affected orks and guard ) and Lootas are definitely one of the best units in the new codex, basically an autocannon for 15 points. and lacking fluff in the new codex? I don't see it. (at least there are no Genestealer cult orks, or khorne worshippers)
The change in the Loota and Looted vehicle allows the ork player to play those units without having to own or have access to 3 separate codexes and gives them their own unique flair.
They brought back the shokk attack gun (without the annoying ammo problems), and expanded the boyz into what used to be 5 separate units. Trukk boyz, Stikkbombz, 'Ard Boyz, Shootas and Slugga boyz. (so you can gear out a very nice Mobs army, or Speed freaks)
The ork codex as it is, is probably one of the better ones they have done for the orks, it is just getting a little long in the tooth, but us ork players have NOTHING to complain about in regards for updates (11 years for dark eldar, and 7 for the Tau.) We're just starting into year 6 for ours.