Starter Empire lists

[Melissia]

I've never made a WFB list before, nor do I (yet) collect the armies... but I'm very tempted.


So far, this is what I've come up with... one of these two lists:

500 Pts

Heroes:
General: Master Engineer w/Long Rifle, Light Armor, Hand Weapon

Core:
9 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle

9 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle

9 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle

Special:
Mortar


500 Pts

Heroes:
General: Captain w/Handgun,Full Plate Armor, Sword of Justice, Shield, Hand Weapon

Core:
14 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle

14 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle

14 Spearmen w/ Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield




I really like the Handgun units, so I want to make an army focused around them and related gunpowder units. These are what I have thus far, using Army Builder to help me make them. Would something like one of these lists be at least moderately competitive, IE, not gimped, even if it's not necessarily great? If I were to get these armies I wouldn't expect to win that often regardless, as I'm a complete beginner to WFB.

[BilboBaggins]

Depending on rules you use for 500 point games (I usually play Warhammer in a Flash rules in 500 point games) you can have some interesting variations in lists.

If you are playing standard rules I might try something like this.

Hero
Warrior Priest - General, Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armour, Shield

Core
5 Knights
10 Handgunners - Marksman with repeater handgun
10 Spearman

Rare
11 Lumpin Croop's Fighting *****

OK, I realise not everyone has Halflings like me so then I'd go with a little different list.

Hero
Warrior Priest - General, Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armour, Shield

Core
11 Handgunners - Marksman with repeater handgun
10 Spearman - Shield

Special
5 Inner Circle Knights
5 Pistoliers

The warrior priest goes into the Knights and confers hatred (re-reoll misses first round of combat) on the unit and they are the offensive unit. The Pistoliers run around and pepper units to weaken them. The Handgunners do long range target elimination (maybe combined with pistoliers to kill/panic test unts) and the Spearmen are there for a ranked unit to engage units when they get close.

[Melissia]

Eh... too few Handgunners! I kinda want to build an army list tha focuses around handgunners, with everyone else nothing more than the support units for Handgunners. However, I also want to incorporate spearmen in to assist , and I was wondering if the following might be better:

Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Great Weapon, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus

Core:
11x Handgunners, Marksman w/Repeater Handgun or Long Rifle
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields

11x Handgunners, Marksman w/Repeater Handgun or Long Rifle
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields

And then a few points to play round with, either musicians, upgrades for the captain, or more men.

[BilboBaggins]

In my experience in small games the lists I've used Knights, handgunners, spearmen/halberds and Halflings is nearly unstoppable.

I'm surprised you didn't put one detachment each as handgunners if you love them so much.

[Melissia]

I've heard from other forums that exact same thing (I've also heard that WFB players are powergamers that don't know squat about feudal warfare, but then I think that person might have been bitter).

Are the detachment rules useful at all, or should I ditch trying to work with them?

[BilboBaggins]

Detachments have their uses, but I haven't used them in 500 point games. I found that if your opponent has loads of cheap troops the knights wipe the board. If they have elites with heavy armour the handguns are useful to weaken and the knights mop up.

I love Lumpin Croop's Halflings (the forum wont let them be called under their real name of Fighting *****) in my army, Skirmishing archers with BS4 (and two BS5 models in the unit). You have to love them.

[Melissia]

Yeah... but I never liked cavalry of any kind. Which is why I would never play Bretonnians I suppose.


Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Halberd, Pistol, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Sigil of Sigmar

Core:
19x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Long Rifle
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment

19x Spearmen w/, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield


Or


Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Halberd, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron

Core:
10x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Long Rifle
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment

10x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Long Rifle
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment

19x Spearmen w/, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield




The latest two versions of the list.

[Aldramelech]

The detachment system is the main advantage of the Empire Army. Without it you've got a fairly average human army.

Your idear of a gunpowder army is not so far out, check out the army of Nuln for some idears.

[Melissia]

Here is what seems to be the final revision of the army.


Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Halberd, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron

Core:
9x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Repeater Handgun

9x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Repeater Handgun

19x Spearmen w/, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment


Central formation of spearmen, counterassaulting swordsmen, handgunners on the flanks.

[Randroid]

That is a pretty strong 500pt list but you might run into problems with magic.

[BilboBaggins]

In my experience there is little magic at 500 point level games.

[Lord Azaghul]

That is a pretty strong 500pt list but you might run into problems with magic.

How much magic can you expect to see at 500pts! Wizards are often too expensive at this point level.

[Old_Paladin]

How much magic can you expect to see at 500pts! Wizards are often too expensive at this point level.

It depends on the army.
Vampire counts could pack in a pair of Necromancers, Deamons will have some magic, WoC could probably be led by a Sorceror, and Dark Elves may or may not bring a Sorceress.
Not much magic, but enough to cause problems to the several small units.

[Lord Azaghul]

It depends on the army.
Vampire counts could pack in a pair of Necromancers, Deamons will have some magic, WoC could probably be led by a Sorceror, and Dark Elves may or may not bring a Sorceress.
Not much magic, but enough to cause problems to the several small units.


The casters in those armies are rather expensive. She'll still have 2 DD, and her shooting should take care of whatever else the player who bought expensive casters can afford! If anyone takes 2 casters that i'll be close to half their points, which means min units of core...core do very well in small games.

I just don't think the points trade off it worth her investing in a wizard until 1k.

[Old_Paladin]

The casters in those armies are rather expensive. She'll still have 2 DD, and her shooting should take care of whatever else the player who bought expensive casters can afford! If anyone takes 2 casters that i'll be close to half their points, which means min units of core...core do very well in small games.

I just don't think the points trade off it worth her investing in a wizard until 1k.

The only army that would take two would be vampires;
but, 2 Necro's both with Invocation one with the fireball staff and the other with the movement book are less then 200 points and you get 2 bound spells and 4 power dice (for your 4+ spell). That's not bad; but it does mean your army is based around them.