True LoS and Basilisk Conversions....

[Vorlon]

Greetings all,
Im about to start working on a few Basilik conversion using chimera bodies and Forge World Whirlwind and Whirlwind Hypereos conversion kits (links below). Question is, considering my final product will be much shorter (no earthshaker cannon) will that cause issues with players targetting the model. In other words if only the barrel of the basilisk is visible can you target the model? Thanks!


http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/whirl.htm
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/wwhyperios.htm

[DarkLink]

You ignore gun barrels when determining LOS, so you should be fine.

[BuFFo]

...will that cause issues with players targeting the model.....

Not at all.

You bought the models, you do whatever you damn well please to them. :p

[Anaximander]

Rule book, top left of p60, when shooting at a vehicle you ignore the gun barrel.

Rule book p58, when a vehicle shoots, it takes line of sight along its gun barrel.

[lobster-overlord]

Since Anaximader brought up the LOS along the gun barrel, I was wondering, are IG LR Sponsons supposed to be 180 degree (front back along side), or just 90 degree ( side/front.) I've seen it played both ways.

John M>

[Jwolf]

Since Anaximader brought up the LOS along the gun barrel, I was wondering, are IG LR Sponsons supposed to be 180 degree (front back along side), or just 90 degree ( side/front.) I've seen it played both ways.

John M>

As modelled, they are front only.

[Vorlon]

Thanks for the info guys! Much appreciated!

[RogueGarou]

Once upon a time, vehicles were given stats in their description that were a bit wonky. The Leman Russ of olden times had sponsons that were listed as having 180 degree fields of fire. Since they mostly dropped that kind of thing, ie not having a separate entry for the fire arcs for every weapon, I would say they can only fire in about a 90 degree arc to one side or the other. The sponsons can actually turn a bit beyond 90 degrees so as long as the gun point at me, I say it can fire at me. Space Marine sponsons have 180 degrees or so of fire arc because of the way the models are built.

Even though it is in the rules pretty clearly, as pointed out above, I have seen very creative ways of interpreting the LOS rules. For example, at a TOURNAMENT, a player was allowed to draw LOS from the end of the Basilisk's barrel. Not looking down the barrel but from the tip of the barrel. Since the model is an artillery piece, I could see using a ruler, tape or laser pointer to aim along the line of the barrel. Sometimes the guns have been glued into place and don't elevate. Cool. I would then say that LOS would be determined from about where the barrel would be if it were elevated or declined to that point. Cool. Line of sight equals direct fire and no line of sight means the shots are not, cool. The fellow in question built his Basilisks with the barrels pointing straight up. Yes, perpendicular to the gaming surface. Aiming along the barrel would have squarely hit the ceiling. However, at this tournament, LOS was taken from the TIP of the Basilisk cannon. He parked the tanks behind buildings with the tip of the barrel peeking above the structure and made shots all through the game using direct fire. When I saw that, I decided that it was not worth playing in those tournaments again. There was actually a ruling from the tourney rules master that it was legal despite what was stated in the rulebook. I don't recall anyone being able to fire at the Basilisks, either. It is an oddity for them to survive a whole game unscathed, though. Afterward, I heard some things about this group that cemented my idea to not patronize their tournaments. It turned out that only members of the gaming group that organized the tourneys ever won their sportsmanship, painting, or door prizes. They often won tie breakers on some fairly shaky reasons, too. As far as I know, the group quit hosting tournaments about a year later and I have not heard of them in a long time so maybe that behavior came back to bite them in the butt.

So, I say convert away and have a blast. Be a little flexible on how the LOS for your converted models will need to be handled. And have a good time with those kits.

[RocketRollRebel]

Hmm so say I have a basilisk behind a hill and only the barrel is peaking over. Can I still fire directly?

[DarkLink]

Even though it is in the rules pretty clearly, as pointed out above, I have seen very creative ways of interpreting the LOS rules. For example, at a TOURNAMENT, a player was allowed to draw LOS from the end of the Basilisk's barrel. Not looking down the barrel but from the tip of the barrel.

That's how it's supposed to work. The problem here is with the player, not with the rules. The rules make this perfectly legal, the player just took advantage of that.

[RocketRollRebel]

that does come off as kinda douchie. Is there a spotter on the end of the barrel? lol

[BuFFo]

Hmm so say I have a basilisk behind a hill and only the barrel is peaking over. Can I still fire directly?

Yes it can. I do it all the time, and my model actually has the barrel LOWER than what it normally is on the model.

Of course that never stops my opponent from DSing his Speeders and just blowing the stupid thing with his multimelta lol.

[Nabterayl]

That's how it's supposed to work. The problem here is with the player, not with the rules. The rules make this perfectly legal, the player just took advantage of that.

No, it's not. Direct fire LOS for a vehicle is the line drawn from the mounting point through the gun muzzle, plus or minus (for a hull-mounted weapon such as an Earthshaker) 22.5 degrees. See pages 58 ("trace the line of sight from each weapons' mounting and along its barrel" and 59 (hull-mounted weapons can fire in a 45-degree arc from their mounting point (see diagram)").

[DarkLink]

No, it's not. Direct fire LOS for a vehicle is the line drawn from the mounting point through the gun muzzle, plus or minus (for a hull-mounted weapon such as an Earthshaker) 22.5 degrees. See pages 58 ("trace the line of sight from each weapons' mounting and along its barrel" and 59 (hull-mounted weapons can fire in a 45-degree arc from their mounting point (see diagram)").

Hey, what do you know. So it is illegal.

Though that 45 degree angle is for side to side movement only, since a Basilisk can lower or elevate its gun a lot more than that.

[Nabterayl]

The elevation rules are a minimum of 45 degrees, even if that is patently impossible for the model (page 59).