Escalation Games

[biffster666]

I have multiple large armies as do my two closest 40k buds and bro. We've played several (11 and counting) games of Escalation and I wanted to provide some high level observations/opinions for folks.

The points of the games varied from 1500-1999pts. Orks, Eldar, IG, and C:SM armies. Lords or War (LoW): Stompa, Kill Bursta, G. Squiggith, Slasha, Revenant, Cobra, various IG tanks.

1. D Weapons aren't 'all that and a bag of chips'. They are insane against regular vehicles and buildings/fortifications, yes. Against infantry and flyers, not so much.
2. Massive Blasts/Tons of Shots (hello 6d6 Giggashoota!) weapons with S/AP are the shiznit.
3. Most LoW have obvious weaknesses.
4. If you're fielding a LoW and your opponent is not, you will more often than not be in a WAAC situation, especially in games of 1750pts or less.
5. Currently I think the best LoW is the Thunderhawk (Super Heavy Flyer, oh my) and the worst LoW is any of the IG tanks. I love my Eldar (20k+) but the Revenant is somewhere in the middle of the pack IMO to be honest. Not sure why so much focus has been on that and not the THawk (did I mention it's a super heavy flyer?)

I know opinions will vary, It's all good!

Oh, and I would DEFINITELY pick up a Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor (Yes, I can engage four different targets!). A full squad of Dev or Assualt Tubbies (better than 'ok' now Darklink? *wink*) with an HQ coming out of the Storm Eagle is so freaking chubtastic!

I'm including some pictures of the LoW we've used and my Iron Hands attack wing that is giving people fits right now. The Thunderhawk will be added after the Holiday...curious if Iron Hand Super Heavy Vehicles get It Will Not Die as well.../cackle!

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Do you feel the Escalation?

[Pssyche]

Nice one, Biffster!
What a pity most people slated Escalation without giving it a go.

[Tyrendian]

well, against regular Infantry D weapons sure aren´t all that scary - but against multi-wound elite infantry or even MCs (hello Tau and/or Daemons...) they are quite what people make them sound like...

and the Revenant not only has easily the best firepower of the LoW in the book (if it finds the right targets ofc - as in other Lords of War, heavy tanks or multi-wound stuff... against an IG or Ork swarm it does pale a little) but it´s also got the only viable defence against other D weapons, and to top it off it´s the single most mobile model in the entire game (ignoring a teleporting Cryptek or stuff like that, which can scatter), so good luck trying to hide from it... sure it is also very very expensive, but that´s entirely justified...

but I do aggree - Escalation can be fun as hell, as long as both players know what they´ve got coming - I just wouldn´t use it for pickup games or a competitive scenario. But for casual play it´s a great idea (and kind of ovedue at that...)

[Ursa]

Escalation is a niche game. It fits between regular 40k and appocolypse. I for one don't think it belongs in regular games but special games no problem. The same goes for Strongpoint. There is a reason its optional and I will not play in games that it is allowed. The models unbalance the game. Spearhead allowed a superheavy and the few games I played they totally dominated the game. If both people don't have and are familiar with the rules then definatly not.

Those of u who are D&D players have seen this as well. A new set of rules were put out and everyone jumped on the bandwagon wanting to play the biggest hardest character they could. If not everyone had the rules we didn't allow anyone to use them. GW is doing the same thing. Every codex published now two new rulebooks and dozens of dataslates almost forces a player yo buy a couple hundred dollars of extra rules to stay competative.

[Popsical]

Escalation is a niche game. It fits between regular 40k and appocolypse. I for one don't think it belongs in regular games but special games no problem. The same goes for Strongpoint. There is a reason its optional and I will not play in games that it is allowed. The models unbalance the game. Spearhead allowed a superheavy and the few games I played they totally dominated the game. If both people don't have and are familiar with the rules then definatly not.

Those of u who are D&D players have seen this as well. A new set of rules were put out and everyone jumped on the bandwagon wanting to play the biggest hardest character they could. If not everyone had the rules we didn't allow anyone to use them. GW is doing the same thing. Every codex published now two new rulebooks and dozens of dataslates almost forces a player yo buy a couple hundred dollars of extra rules to stay competative.

Im curious as to why the debate over "legality" is still going. Its pointless.
One wonders what will happen when gw release 7th ed. Will they negate all the extras, thus making all the figs bought pointless also? If they do, i fear for the future of 40k.
To flagrantly abuse the customer base that much may kill the whole thing.

[Ursa]

Im curious as to why the debate over "legality" is still going. Its pointless.
One wonders what will happen when gw release 7th ed. Will they negate all the extras, thus making all the figs bought pointless also? If they do, i fear for the future of 40k.
To flagrantly abuse the customer base that much may kill the whole thing.

Ive been saying that for two editions now.

[SaveModifier]

Those of u who are D&D players have seen this as well. A new set of rules were put out and everyone jumped on the bandwagon wanting to play the biggest hardest character they could. If not everyone had the rules we didn't allow anyone to use them. GW is doing the same thing. Every codex published now two new rulebooks and dozens of dataslates almost forces a player yo buy a couple hundred dollars of extra rules to stay competative.

Who the hell are you playing D&D with where they try and play the biggest hardest characters? You have a DM in that game for a reason, any decent GM will stop a player from getting too powerful? Which is the whole point of 40k, no one needs to buy all the rules to play a fun game, no one needs more than their own codex and the rulebook

[biffster666]

Pssyche...Mr. "Watch what my Fire Dragons do to this Warlord!" Forever a classic.

Yup, I agree Tyrendian.

Tourney play has always been very 'set' depending on the Tourney long before Escalation/Stronghold Assault came along. I'm actually baffled why the tournament community seems to be catching so much flak about it. /shrug

Whether it's at home against a bud or in a pick up game at the local shop there is always a 'ground rules' discussion prior to playing. This would include "are we allowing LoW and/or Strongholds?" This seems to be the norm in my experience.

IMO the Rev is actually a liability in a 1750pts or less game, it's a freaking PITA to try an make it work. It can kinda work in a 1999pt game, but the Rev utterly sucks against flyers (like most LoW ,see #3 above, heh heh). I saw on Faeit that Naftka is going to be taking on one of his buddies who has a Rev and he was asking for advice on what to take. Based on the prior Escalation game he played I'm guessing 2500-3kpts. IMO, he should use his IG and GK's and use all three flyers he has. No ground vehicle's needed, just a big head count and then it's "Go Ants!"

Now a 685pt Thawk is pure awesome sauce IMO. Got Skyfire? Immune to everything but vehicle destroyed results? All those yummy weapons and it can carry 30 models (don't forget MULTIPLE units!) as well. Make it Iron Hands with a MoF and/or Techmarine + Serv or two riding along.../drool. Thank you sir, may I please have another? heh heh

[Pssyche]

"Pssyche...Mr. "Watch what my Fire Dragons do to this Warlord!" Forever a classic."

Thanks for the compliment.
Indeed it was a classic.

Setting a sequence of events in motion that result in the correct placement of the right units, in the right place, at exactly the right moment is most satisfying and indeed what every gamer aspires to.
And to take down a 2,500 Point Chaos Titan on Turn One of a 30,000 Point-a-side Apocalypse Battle is very desirable.
The casual manner in which you mention it does it a disservice.

Unless, of course, you didn't understand the sequence of events that put my Fire Dragons there even though I've explained them before..
In which case I'd play you any day of the week.

[Ursa]

SaveMod we have all had DMs that can be manipulated. Usually newer DMs. Its called the Month Hall complex.

Ive been playing D&D for 33 years including with the Man himself. I was a play tester for Gygax and TSR starting in 1980 for about 12 years about when TSR started coming out with Unearth Arcadia. Ive stuck by them till 4TH edition then they lost me to Pathfinder.

When I play now the main rule book is the only one players are allowed to use or even bring to a game. I use the DMs guide and Beasteary.

[Asuryan]

Who the hell are you playing D&D with where they try and play the biggest hardest characters? You have a DM in that game for a reason, any decent GM will stop a player from getting too powerful?

My GM lets players get as powerful as they want, and fixes it by throwing even stronger monsters at us.

[biffster666]

My bad Pssyche, I in no way meant to diminish the feat. Legendary among my Swordwind sir. I simply wanted to tip the cap without coming across as too much of a fanboy.

The local shop I frequent (Great Escape) will be hosting some Escalation/Stronghold Assault games as part of their open play night. The shop opens at 11am Pacific and I'll be setting up stuff shortly after they open. I'll be playing one of the managers this evening (probably starting between 6-7pm) but I'm sure we'll sneak in an additional game or two, heh heh. I'll post up a battle report and pictures. Based on the reaction when I started dropping stuff off yesterday it should be fun. Looking forward to meeting folks and chatting 40k.

Edit:

I forgot to mention before I head out, feel free to bring your own Escalation force down to the shop for a game! I'm looking forward to seeing some Chaos, Necron and Nid Lords of War!

12/28 Edit:

Wow, just wow. I'm already lagging but I wanted to send a special shout out to Darklink, SomeRandomDude, and Mr. Necron of GE for making it most definitely an epic first Escalation at GE. Darklink can correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear in the span of less than 15min we went from 3500 and then Mr. N says "oh no" as he plops down The "Rev", Cobra, and four Wraithknights and we jump to 6k, no 7.5k, nah 10k!

Anyway, 18ft and 10k a side later...

Iron Hands vs. Eldar (with a splash of AWESOME looking Darklink Draigo wing, don't be a sad panda they got squished!!)

Highlights to follow later today, I gotta get rolling!

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[biffster666]

Before I head back to GE I wanted to give one more shout out to the two dudes from Fairfield who stopped by...Post some of those pictures of your Orks dude, they are awesome! Also a shout out to the dude who helped me get stuff into GE yesterday, I owe you a game against your Necron with a T. Ctan! I meant to get some contact info so definitely PM me dudes.

[biffster666]

Greetings again folks. It was kewl to chat more 40k with folks as I started to get things organized so we can start finding our stride this coming Friday. My high level impressions from the last two days.

I'm lucky enough to be in an area that has a large/huge 40k community. 40k is full on generational now. Pretty much the universal comment I got from people after Friday night was "Dude, that was awesome." Ran into SomeRandom and was finally able to chat with him about the game and not just respond "I know! I know!" when he was telling me how awesome army wide FnP and It Will Not Die for the Iron Hands is, heh heh.

Highlights from the game include...

The Rev went down in turn one HARD without firing a shot. I'll let Darklink or SomeRandom go into detail if they'd like since I was 12ft away at the time but it was not a case of Some Random just D'ing it up. As Mr. Necron put it, the Fire Raptor just flew around conducting weapons tests. SomeRandom ramming the Cobra with one of the Land Raiders! A Falcon, 2 squads of Wraithguard and a squad of Guardians being reduced to 3 Guardians and 2 Wraithguard with a quake shell, heh heh. The left 9ft being all kinds of vehicles and mech and the right 9ft being HORDES of Eldar infantry. At the end I was a giggling mess and Mr. Necron (Big Tourney player) is starting to total up kill pts/objectives (he blew up a lot of stuff turn 2, heh heh) and Darklink/SomeRandom have this "what the heck are you talking about?" look on their faces...we happily called it a draw :-)

I still see that 'The Machine" is still feasting on the doom/gloom that 'Tourney play is DOOMED!!!'...it's not, not even close, but more on that in a different thread. A few parting shots...

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[DarkLink]

Nice one, Biffster!
What a pity most people slated Escalation without giving it a go.

Superheavies are fine. Str D is a problem, because it just hard-counters any army that doesn't spam infantry (Grey Knights, Deathwing, Land Raiders, vehicle heavy lists, etc), but if you dropped it to Str 10 AP1 Ignores Cover Ordinance or the like, the game would go perfectly smoothly. But just for reference, on my side of the board Str D from the Cobra and Aquila Stronghold thingie killed a unit of Centurions, a Storm Raven, like four Land Raiders, a Revenant (which never got to shoot, or else there would have been much more death), half the hull points on a Warhound, killed 3 Wraithknights, half the unit of Paladins in one shot, an Autarch with the Mantle of the Laughing God, a couple Hornets, a couple War Walkers, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting about.

The Cobra is 675pts, the Stronghold is like 600. That 1300pts killed, in three turns, roughly 4,000pts. The Warhound, on the other hand, was armed with a Plasma Blastgun and Vulkan Megabolter, still killed a lot of stuff, but without the D it killed about what you would expect a 750pt unit to kill. Some Paladins, a few Eldar skimmers, a couple units of Dire Avengers. Pretty reasonable. Tough to kill, but reasonable.

[somerandomidiot]

Definitely an enjoyable game! The STR D on Link's and my side of the table was definitely a force of destruction! I felt like the Warhound Titan with Plasma/Megabolter performed really well, and wasn't nearly as dominant as the STR D. (that, or your invisible warp spiders... those things are maddening when you've got a HUGE piece of terrain to jump around)

[DarkLink]

Warp Spiders are indeed awesome. I was pretty suprised when I added up just how much the cobra and the aquila stronghold killed in so few turns, too.

[biffster666]

I kept looking at SomeRandomDude for like 10 minutes after typing it saying "That's not right dumb***" Yeah, I use the word 'dude' A LOT, heh heh.

We'll definitely scale it back into the 2500-3500pt range the next go around so there will be more method to the madness. The next time we go 10k+ per side it will be an actual Apoc game. It's coming!

[somerandomidiot]

Bring it on! The Mechanicus will gladly assist the Iron Hands whenever the need arises (especially against the filthy Eldar...)!

[Big_Bad12]

Thanks for the insight. I am running a 2500/3000 point game of escalation/stronghold assault tomorrow and would like to get something of an idea as to how it may go over.

[daboarder]

everything I've read suggests escalation runs very smoothly at the 2.5k+ mark. Its only cramming it into standard 1.5-2 lists where its a serious problem