Experimental Possessed rules

[Master Bryss]

I've only ever seen the 4th edition Chaos Codex, and I've seen so many complaints about Possessed. I've been thinking and I'm going to try some 'modification.'

Possessed Chaos Space Marines
Cost: 20 points each. Statline and options are the same as normal, as well as:

Daemonic Gifts All Possessed have Daemonic Protection (5+ Inv save) and Daemon Strength (S5). For the following points cost, any number of Possessed may be given any number of gifts.

Daemonic Fire: The model counts as having a Flamer. 5 points per model. Maximum of 2 models can have this Gift.
Daemonic Blades: The model counts as having a power weapon. 10 points per model.
Daemonic Talons: The model's attacks are Rending. 5 points per model.
Daemonic Hooves:The unit has Fleet. 3 points per model, must be taken on all models. Daemonic Speed:The unit has the Scout rule. 4 points per model, must be taken on all models. Daemonic Resilience: The model has Feel No Pain. 7 points per model.
Daemonic Bloodlust: The unit has Furious Charge, but also gains the Rage rule. 2 points per model, must be taken on all models.
Daemonic Power: A Possessed Champion may become a psyker for +20 points, so long as the squad has no Icon of Khorne, and may select one psychic power from the Codex (god-specific powers require the relevant Icon), at the full cost of that power (always round decimals up). If the squad has an Icon of Tzeentch, an extra power may be taken at half the cost of that power.

Probably needs some work. I'd also like some suggestions for more gifts. I do a lot of narrative stuff, so I really like doing this sort of thing for Arena of Death and the like.

[Herald of Nurgle]

First, increase the basic points to 19pts per model (Fearless + Strength 5)
Next...
- Blades needs to be 8pts per model.
- Hooves and Speed need to be combined or swapped.
- Bloodlust needs to include Rage if it's THAT cheap.

That is all.

[Master Bryss]

Made a few changes (I'm but a young novice rulesmith)

Increased basic cost to 18 points.
Did everything else Herald said.
Added another option.

How do you 'estimate' a points cost for Fearless?

[Atrotos]

As a player that writes rules often I have to say that its my opinion that points costs cannot be done as such:

Fearless: +2 pts, Str. 5: +2 pts and so on

It doesn't work because things have to be evaluated relative to existing units and this is more important than the cost of a unit "in a vacuum" if you know what I mean. So when you have a unit you're trying to write rules for and think they should be 18 pts try to find a similar unit at the same cost and go from there.

For instance, Wold Guard are 18pts a model and have very similar stats to possessed. Already you can see that 18pts a model is too little because possessed have everything that Wolf Guard have (except army wide special rules but those are generally free) plus a 5+ invul., fearless and strength 5. So there cost must go up.

Other changes I'd suggest is paying close attention to model upgrades and the effects they can have in extreme cases. You say "flamers are 5 points because they're common and even free to some units" but while 5 pts for ONE flamer is ok 50 points for TEN flamers is not. Either bring the cost of flamers up with the assumption that otherwise they'll be spammed or limit the models that can take them "One model may be armed...etc"

Why are power weapons 8 points? they're 10 points for guardsmen who have WS and Str 3 and 15 points for marines who have WS and Str 4. Upgrades that rely on a model's existing stats must have attendant points changes when the stats are changed. Therefore a Str 5 power weapon must cost more than a Str 4 one (all other stats presumed generally equal).

Finally be careful about what combinations you allow within the same unit. The way you've written these guys I can outflank/scout and move (6-12), Fleet (1-6) or Lash someone (2-24) and charge (6) for a total possible charge range of 42" starting turn 1. I can have three such units at a bargain cost.

You've done a good job with these rules and I'd love to see more.

[Herald of Nurgle]

When I was writing up the rules for my possessed, I used the following gifts. It was an upgrade for whole units, of course.

Winged Terror: The unit becomes Jump Infantry.
Horror from the Depths: The unit becomes Beasts, and also gain the Infiltrate Special Rule
Damned Enlightenment: For each 5 models in the unit, one will count as a Psyker. These Psykers each gain a single Psychic Power from the Chaos Space Marine powers, and may use up to one power each per turn.
Breath of Chaos: All members of the unit gain a single Flamer which may hit friendly models.
Titan of Olympia: All members of the unit gain +1 Toughness and also ignore the effects of Difficult Terrain. When attacking ruins, the unit rolls 2d6 for armour penetration
Lord of the Dead: Whenever a model dies in combat against this unit, roll a single d6. On a 6, the model becomes a Chaos Spawn with 2 wounds remaining, which joins the same combat. Spawn may not attack on the turn they are created.
Insane Ferocity: All members of the unit gain d3+1 attacks on the charge
Kinslayer: The unit gains Preferred Enemy against all opponents, as well as Fleet and Rage.
Soulsinger: This gives a single model (each turn) the psychic power ‘Lash of Submission’, albeit with a 12 inch range and no psychic test.
Ancestral Daemon: All enemy units with line of sight to this squad will lose 1 attack (to a minimum of 1) in Close Combat. All friendly units with line of sight to this squad will gain 1 attack (to a maximum of 4 before other modifiers)
Crushing Appendages: Before the Assault Phase begins each game turn, the squad may choose whether they want to count as armed with a Power Fist or Power Weapon that turn. All members must select the same option here.

[Master Bryss]

Increased points cost of some Gifts
Put a limit on Daemonic Fire
Made it more expensive to take psychic powers


More Gifts:
Daemonic Flight: The unit becomes Jump Infantry. +10 points a model, must be taken on all models.
Daemonic Maul: One per unit. The model counts as having a Power Fist. +20 points.
Daemonic Magnet: One per unit. The model may swap his number of attacks in close combat for the number of Lesser Daemons within 6", however any Lesser Daemon within 6" will die at the end of that Assault Phase, with no Invulnerable Save allowed. +30 points.

Atrotos: Thank you for spotting the Lash problem. Should I put a cap on how many Gifts are taken, and if so how many?

[Atrotos]

Well your question raises another issue and that is that the unit as it stands right now outclasses anything else in the codex. The mass of available options will mean that it eclipses all the other units so you would have Chaos players fielding 30 Possessed because those 30, with their buttload of options, are capable of dealing with anything you put in front of them.

None of the Gift ideas are bad but since you have so many you might consider making new units to give them to in order to motivate players to take different units and not just spam this one.

[Master Bryss]

New units... hmm, how about classing Possessed by the strength of daemon that's possessing the Marine?

Possibly:

Lesser Possessed Marine: Has the statline and cost of a normal Marine, as well as a 6+ Inv Save.
Squad: 5-10
Wargear: Counts as having 1 CC weapon
Gifts: Lesser Possessed Marines band together with others with the same skills. The entire squad may take ONE of the following gifts (for the appropriate points cost): Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Hooves, Daemonic Speed, Daemonic Bloodlust, Daemonic Talons.

For every 5 models in the squad one may take Daemonic Fire for 5 points. The squad may take an Icon: Glory for 5pts, Slaanesh for 20pts, Khorne for 30 pts, Tzeentch for 40pts and Nurgle for 50pts. One model may become a Champion (same profile as above, but with Ld10 and +1 attack) for +15 points. A Champion may take Daemonic Blades for +15 points.

Greater Possessed Marine: 45 points

WS/BS/S/T/W/I/A/Ld/Sv/Inv
5 5 5 5 2 4 3 10 3+ 5+
Squad: 3-6.
Wargear: Counts as having 1 CC weapon
Gifts: The entire squad may take up to THREE of the following gifts (for the appropriate points cost): Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Hooves, Daemonic Speed (you can only take one of these three), Daemonic Bloodlust, Daemonic Talons, Daemonic Blades, Daemonic Resilience.

Up to 2 models may take Daemonic Fire for 5 points. The squad may take an Icon: Glory for 5pts, Slaanesh for 30pts, Khorne for 40pts, Tzeentch for 50pts and Nurgle for 60pts.

Any model may become a Champion for 5pts (no change to stats). A Champion may take Daemonic Power for +20 points, so long as the squad has no Icon of Khorne, and may select one psychic power from the Codex (god-specific powers require the relevant Icon), at the full cost of that power. If the squad has an Icon of Tzeentch, an extra power may be taken at half the cost of that power. (rounding up)

Any thoughts?