Guns-Akimbo!

[Just_Me]

Something that has been rattling around in the back of my mind for some time and has really become and insistent nag with this “generation” of codex books; why are there no standard rules for the effects of having two of the same ranged weapon?

In previous editions this didn’t seem like such a big deal because most options were severely limited either by what options were actually available or by the “one-handed” “two-handed” system, but now that most weapon upgrade options are “and/or” we can give a character two bolt pistols, plasma pistols, two boltguns, or even two stormbolters.

I fully understand the reason that rules (mostly) limit a character from firing more than one different weapon, and I get that it might be valid or prudent to give yourself ranged options; maybe you don’t want to fire that plasma pistol at everything in sight and risk toasting yourself, instead you can fire your stormbolter. However, why shouldn’t there be some effect of having two of the same weapon? If I give my Space Marine Captain two bolters (or, God-Emperor forbid, stormbolters) then why can’t he just blaze away like that skinny kid in The Matrix (right before Elrond’s pet SWAT team killed him that is)?

There are tantalizing precedents for this in specific units; twin weapons counting as twin-linked (Seraphim & Creed) or doubling the assault fire rate (Dire Avenger and Warp Spider Exarchs), but no general rule to cover this appears in the main rulebook (the closest we get is two pistols in CC). Now that I could give my Space Marine Captain two bolters (or two stormbolters) if I wanted, there is absolutely no reason to do so (besides how awesome it would look) as all it does is deprive me of a second weapon option. Personally, I would really like to see a simple rule to cover this, maybe making them count as twin-linked, increasing the number of shots they can fire, and/or changing them to assault weapons. This would add another layer to upgrade options and would encourage many more loadouts.

I don’t know, maybe this is just me, has anyone else given this some thought?

[Melissia]

Making them count as twin-linked and an extra CCW seems about right IMO, how the Seraphim do it. With the exception of rare characters (IE, special characters), most people would aim both weapons at the same enemies for maximum accuracy.

[SombreBrotherhood]

I think that'd be an awesome house-rule to try out. Plus, a Sternguard Sarge with two bolters just makes me smile.

[Dark_Templar]

I am in the camp of "make the model look cool, then worry about how to kill the enemy".

I keep everything Codex legal, but am more concerned with whether it looks relatively bad-a or not.

OT though, it would add a new layer of depth to the loadout system if there were bonuses given.

[DarkLink]

Dual weapons already generally TL stuff, if they do anything at all. In addition, pistols grant +1 A for 2CCW's.

The issue isn't that rules don't exist for it, just that there aren't many units that can do it where this isn't covered in their entry. I mean, I guess you can buy a storm bolter and keep your normal bolter for a SM sergeant, but it really isn't a big deal.

[Just_Me]

The issue isn't that rules don't exist for it, just that there aren't many units that can do it where this isn't covered in their entry. I mean, I guess you can buy a storm bolter and keep your normal bolter for a SM sergeant, but it really isn't a big deal.

With all due respect, read your IG and SM codices again; ALL HQs (except Primaris Psyker) and all sergeants can replace either or both of their weapons with the same ranged weapons.

[Melissia]

The thought of a sergeant with two shotguns makes me smile.

[Just_Me]

The thought of a sergeant with two shotguns makes me smile.

Right? How cool would that look...

[Melissia]

Especially two autoshotguns. Like the Vanaheim from Dark Heresy.

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Now I'm going to make a character in Dark Heresy that dual-wields Vanaheims.

[Just_Me]

Now I'm going to make a character in Dark Heresy that dual-wields Vanaheims.

I like it, if we ever get a game off the ground, then I would love to see that...

[Kahoolin]

You know, I never noticed the old "one handed/two handed" thing is gone in 5th ed codices. I'm totally going to suggest a house rule to my opponent that two of anything = twin-linked + one kick arse model :D Nice catch.

[DarkLink]

You know, I never noticed the old "one handed/two handed" thing is gone in 5th ed codices. I'm totally going to suggest a house rule to my opponent that two of anything = twin-linked + one kick arse model :D Nice catch.

Well, two handed weapons still can't benifit from 2 CCW, (ex. Relic Blades). But, yeah, you can carry as many weapons as you can buy. You just are limited in how many you can use at one time.

[faolan]

Heh, ya'll been playing COD6 again, haven'tcha?

Bloody akimbo shotties on a Sgt...

[RocketRollRebel]

So would taking say 2 plasma pistols on a space marine captain make them twin linked?

[BuFFo]

So would taking say 2 plasma pistols on a space marine captain make them twin linked?

Only if the Captain had a rule doing so, which he doesn't. :o

[Master Bryss]

I really want to convert a Space Marine Commander with a jump pack and two storm bolters, then mount him on a flying base. As awesome as it would be to have a Commander 'doing a seraphim', I really wish I could get 4 shots out of the storm bolters...

Still, I suppose I could use a house rule.

[Just_Me]

I really want to convert a Space Marine Commander with a jump pack and two storm bolters, then mount him on a flying base. As awesome as it would be to have a Commander 'doing a seraphim', I really wish I could get 4 shots out of the storm bolters...

Still, I suppose I could use a house rule.

If we go by the precedents set by those units that do have special rules to cover this, then it seems that pistols become twin-linked and assault weapons get twice as many shots.

[RocketRollRebel]

Only if the Captain had a rule doing so, which he doesn't. :o

and I suppose that he wouldn't get to fire both of them at the same time either... Outside of looking like a total bad *** (Clint Eastwood marine anyone?), there is no point in taking them then I suppose.

[the smeer]

It is sort of covered in the rules;
with 2 pistols you get an additional attack in close combat.
and you can't fire 2 stormbolters or bolters for that matter as they are 2-handed weapons.
What you don't get with the 2 pistols is the re-roll, but you could make that a houserule.

A captain (in terminator armour) i could see wielding 2 stormbolters though (and looking cool doing so).

There are no rules for a marine to wield and fire 2 guns, but there are ways around this:
the simplest way is to use the rules for Kantor, with your own custom dual stormbolter wielding captain.
The rules for Dorn's Arrow are S4 assault 4, representing the 2 guns, and you get a powerfist and other stuff to boot.
You could even model your sternguard (scoring units under Kantor) with dual boltguns/pistol representing the special sternguard ammo effects or/and plasma-melta-flamepistol and boltpistol combinations as combi-weapons.

Or use rules for Vulkan with a captain modeled with 2 Heavy flamers representing the gauntlet of the forge (mastercrafted heavy flamer) and the spear of vulkan (as the intense heat of the 2 weapons can be focused in CC by the skill of the captain, think ork burnas) easily.
Add heat resisting armour for his mantle, and you've got a unique looking captain.
The master-crafting and twin-linking afforded by Vulkan can also be modeled with dual weapon wielding marines.

These are some examples, but with a little creative thinking a lot of existing troop types and options can be modeled (and perform) the way you like.