Could Mephiston be a perpetual? Who else....

[Blood Shadow]

It just occurred to me that Mephiston's coming out the otherside of the Black rage....he's a master psyker....he came back from certain death....he was swiftly exfiltrated by the Eldar I believe.....

Some similarities with some of the heresy story lines could make a neat revelation.....

Who else in the 40k universe might be one of the perpetuals? Saint Celestine is it? The grey knight justicar dude? The Black Templar chaplin Grimaldus?

Any others?

[Katharon]

The word "perpetual" was created by the Horus Heresy authors to describe the few, select individuals who may or may not be descendants of the Emperor. They are characterized by a number of different ways, not all of them being psykic. While there are some active within the 31st millenium, there are no known "perpetuals" active in the 41st millenium.

Mephiston is not a perpetual. He is an Astartes and a powerful psyker, that is all. He overcame the Red Thirst (Black Rage) through forced deprivation. His mind and psyche were pushed to their absolute limit -- a position from which there are only two options: either he would conquer the Rage or it would consume his mind. He conquered it and by this ascendance through the binds of the Red Thirst, he became far more powerful than your average Blood Angel -- his gene-seed apparently altering his physiology to the point that he became stronger and faster. All of that combined made him what he is today: the Lord of Death.

Saint Celestine is, as her name implies, an Imperial Saint. She is what she is because her physical being is endowed with a small spark of the God-Emperor's power.

Justicar Thawn might be a perpetual, but it is far more likely that his resurrection ability is another gift granted via the Emperor or his own psykic potential. There are other examples of this same resurrection ability other than just Thawn, which leads me to believe that he is not a perpetual.

Grimaldus is definitely not a perpetual. He is simply an Astartes, which means all that that means when you say that a man is an Astartes -- and therefore no longer a man.

[Blood Shadow]

Nice words, I'm familiar with the current 40k canon, I was more thinking since the introduction/ use of perpetuals in the 30k universe ....would it be cool if?

So I know its not canon now, but which characters have storylines which could be retconed to fit the principle.....though I take your points as being its not something you'd like to see...

[Cpt Codpiece]

if any marine is a perpetual (sensi or whatever title you choose) it would be dante...... the old codger is knocking over a thousand years as an astartes and he's still swinging his axe like a young 'un.

mephiston is just an everyday bad-donkey ;P who will no doubt loose his monstrous creature profile when the dex gets ner... re weritten.

[Anggul]

and he's still swinging his axe like a young 'un.

Which is to say, very slowly. ;)

[euansmith]

Which is to say, very slowly. ;)

:D :D :D

Why does this forum not have a like button?

[energongoodie]

Great idea Blood Shadow :)

[Houghten]

Justicar Thawn might be a perpetual, but it is far more likely that his resurrection ability is another gift granted via the Emperor or his own psykic potential. There are other examples of this same resurrection ability other than just Thawn, which leads me to believe that he is not a perpetual.

According to the Eldar in the short story The Ghost Halls (http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/the-ghost-halls-ebook.html), Anval Thawn is a Perpetual.

[Katharon]

According to the Eldar in the short story The Ghost Halls (http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/the-ghost-halls-ebook.html), Anval Thawn is a Perpetual.

Does it state that explicitly?

[Houghten]

"The mon-keigh have found the last Perpetual. Anval Thawn has ascended to the ranks of the Grey Knights."

[Blood Shadow]

How about the sanguinor? He's supposed to be heresy era guy...pops up when needed...would be cool if he was a perpetual with Oll Persons blade....would explain his ability to show up when needed....

[Nurglitch]

No, Mephiston is possessed by a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh, a Keeper of Secrets. Take a look at the Chaos Daemon's 5th edition codex, particularly the entry for the Keep of Secrets, and Mephiston's entry in the Blood Angel's 5th edition codex.

The amusing thing is that in his 2nd edition version, he had the profile of a Warhammer Fantasy Battle Vampire Lord from the Undead army book.

[Dalleron]

Agree that Meph is more daemon than perpetual, going off the current codex. Look at that statline, looks a lot like a greater demon. the Sanguinor is some stupid BA thing that need not exist.

People talk about how old Dante is, but look at Eldrad. He was alive in the HH, and with some handy dandy ret conn-ing is still alive today. That makes him over 10k years old. Unless there is some other Eldrad that I'm aware of.

[Cpt Codpiece]

i missed the demon retcon :( gonna have to get a hold of a copy to have a peruse myself....... meph is fulgrim!!!!!

as for sanguinor, yeah he doesn't make sense, another 'lets get a heresy link'. but supposing he is indeed the 10k+ old dude GW hint at...... he could be in a warp rift like LotD and appear out of nowhere, to go back again when he's done (like that PoS GK).

eldrad is eldar though they are all like that, and he was half crystal anyway. as for him being dead.... the story got rewound and he is alive...... just like tycho

[Katharon]

I think Mephiston is more likely walking along the fine edge of a blade. One misstep and he will be a daemon prince.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I think Mephiston is more likely walking along the fine edge of a blade. One misstep and he will be a daemon prince.Agreed - the current fluff seems to hint he's in a dangerous position, but is not yet "corrupted".

[bfmusashi]

How can Thawn be the last perpetual? Where do they go? Is it like Grimoire of the Rift and he has to switch his class to Heritor?

[Houghten]

I think it's more like "the last to be discovered."

If some ancient Eldar prophecy says there are X Perpetuals, and they already know the locations of X-1 of them...

[Katharon]

Personally, all this recent lore regarding perpetuals is ridiculous to me. I'd be much more happier with them going into detail about the Illuminati and the search for the Star Child.

[bfmusashi]

If something isn't ridiculous it doesn't belong in 40k (or any science fiction really).

[StraightSilver]

Don't quote me on this as I don't have my Realm of Chaos books handy (am bored at work..) but wasn't The Emperor created by the sacrifice of 8 Anatolian Shaman? They combined their essence into one human body?

I believe then that there would be 8 Perpetuals at any one time, the souls of those Shaman who can occupy a human host and effectively are immortal as they have transcended human form?

It also relates back to the Octed which makes a nice kind of symmetry.

What I don't understand though is how Vulkan is a Perpetual, as he was "created" by The Emperor, unless he somehow trapped a Perpetual in a Primarch's body? Or I may be misunderstanding what the perpetuals are?

If we were retconning I would like to say the Lucius the Eternal was a Perpetual, but is now usurped by Chaos which has a nice twisted irony to it.

[Katharon]

Don't quote me on this as I don't have my Realm of Chaos books handy (am bored at work..) but wasn't The Emperor created by the sacrifice of 8 Anatolian Shaman? They combined their essence into one human body?

I believe then that there would be 8 Perpetuals at any one time, the souls of those Shaman who can occupy a human host and effectively are immortal as they have transcended human form?

It also relates back to the Octed which makes a nice kind of symmetry.

What I don't understand though is how Vulkan is a Perpetual, as he was "created" by The Emperor, unless he somehow trapped a Perpetual in a Primarch's body? Or I may be misunderstanding what the perpetuals are?

If we were retconning I would like to say the Lucius the Eternal was a Perpetual, but is now usurped by Chaos which has a nice twisted irony to it.

The original creation story for the Emperor was that hundreds of ancient Earth's shamans came together in a conclave and decided to sacrifice themselves in order to join together their powers and essence in order to make a singular being capable of protecting mankind as each individual shaman had been doing for time immemorial. The reasoning being that previously shamans would be reborn and return to serve their respective tribes, but due to the rising tide of Chaos, daemons preyed upon the souls of these shaman and the cycle of rebirth was being broken. By sacrificing themselves, they could ensure the creation of an immortal being unlike anything ever seen before or since.

None of the Primarchs are perpetuals -- they might have immortality due to the nature of their creation. Even a standard space marine could possibly live forever, but due to the nature of their occupation (see: grimdark warfare), none live longer than a few centuries to a few millenia (not counting CSM, they like to stay in the Warp or Eye where time has no meaning). I also do not count Dreadnoughts in this because they are supported via artificial means and hibernation sleep.

Lucius is not a perpetual either. He is simply a CSM who has gained the favor of Slannesh. You might even say that he is cursed.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

None of the Primarchs are perpetualsA recent development in the Heresy series was revealing that Vulkan's a perpetual. Kinda odd. I'm not that crazy about the perpetuals as a concept, to be honest.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

They're an odd new thing, and old at the same time see (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Illuminati).
If they are both the old and new combo then all is awesome!

[Katharon]

A recent development in the Heresy series was revealing that Vulkan's a perpetual. Kinda odd. I'm not that crazy about the perpetuals as a concept, to be honest.

What book?

[bfmusashi]

Vulkan Lives!

[Wolfshade]

Vulkan Lives!
That should be exclusively said in the voice of Brian Blessed.

[bfmusashi]

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who heard that in their head when the title was announced.

[Bob821]

That should be exclusively said in the voice of Brian Blessed.

A good point well put.

[Lord-Boofhead]

How about the sanguinor? He's supposed to be heresy era guy...pops up when needed...would be cool if he was a perpetual with Oll Persons blade....would explain his ability to show up when needed....


My theory is the The Sanguinor is a creation of the Collective Unconsciousness of the Blood Angels and their Successors ...

[Katharon]

We already know what the Sanguinor is, if you paid even sparse attention when reading "Fear to Tread."

[phil035]

I personally think that with all the new books and meta in the books I'd say that all prmarchs are perpetuals but the only comfired one is vulkan, seeing as though that gulliman is recovering from his mortal wound even though he is in a stasis feild(only primarch that can think off that has fluff in M41) and the lion lasting wihtout a scratch on a death world for several years but primarchs have recovered from titan blasts to the face and come back so i'd say that they will can come back from the dead. everything bar decapitation can be covered from, but after the death of primarchs there bodies have usually vanished or in the case of Alpharius cannot be confirmed

[Vash108]

We already know what the Sanguinor is, if you paid even sparse attention when reading "Fear to Tread."

I never did read it what did he wind up being? can PM me so no spoilers.

[xKonradCurzex]

SPOILERS
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Vulkan is a Perpetual

[ElectricPaladin]

I never did read it what did he wind up being? can PM me so no spoilers.

PM me, too? I'm deeply curious.

As for myself, I don't believe that Mephiston is either. We know that he's not possessed, because we have scenes from his point of view. A possessed being in 40k is aware of his state, because the daemon is in charge. Instead, I think that he's exactly what the books say he is: a transcendently powerful psyker with an Asarte's posthuman body. A nigh-perfected transhuman being who could possibly kick his own *** into daemon-princehood.

Mephiston doesn't need to be anything other than what he is to be a total badass.

[Kami Alan Cheale]

Personally, all this recent lore regarding perpetuals is ridiculous to me. I'd be much more happier with them going into detail about the Illuminati and the search for the Star Child.

i do agree but it is nice to see that gw is still trying to fluff out the core story