Musical Wounds - what the hell?

[Denzark]

Hey chaps.

A question. I hear a lot about musical wounds, particularly Nob bikers. But I fail to understand the perceived benefit of different equipment. Surely wounds are allocated across a whole unit, one to each before going back to those who already have one allocated? Can't see any clever tricks to be had, but if someone can explain with words of one syllable and a page reference I would be muchly obliged to you...

[Culven]

The trick only works with multi-wound models. By having each model different, there will be multiple groups of one model. Even if each group took one wound (after saves), there would be no casualties. If there weren't different groups, then the unsaved wounds would be piled onto one model in the group until it would be removed as a casualty and then the next model in the group would receive the same.

For example, if one had a unit of 2 two-wound models with two wounds on the unit:
If identical, one would be assigned to each model, saves would be attempted for both models at the same time (as they are a single group) and if both fail, one model would be removed as a casualty.
If different, one wound would be assigned to each model, saves would be attempted for each model (as they are now separate groups) and even if each failed their save, the worst outcome would only be one wound suffered by each.

This use of the wound allocation rules will help keep more models in the unit for longer.

[miteyheroes]

Surely wounds are allocated across a whole unit, one to each before going back to those who already have one allocated?

Nope. If you suffer 2 wounds to a squad of identically armed nob bikers, you take off 1 model.

BUT if you have each nob biker armed individually and suffer 2 wounds, you have 2 models each on 1 wound instead. So your squad can soak up more wounds before loosing any models (and thus combat effectiveness).

[MarshalAdamar]

The main benefit of this tactic is for models with multiple wounds.

If you have 5 Nobs all with different war gear

And they take 4 wounds, if all the models were the same you would lose 2 whole Nobs.

Because you have to remove whole models FROM MODELS THAT HAVE THE EXACT SAME WARGEAR, EQUIPMENT AND STATS.

So because the Nobs are all different you can assign one wound to EACH.

4 Nobs take 1 wound but because they have two wounds you lose NONE.

Pretty powerful stuff when you assault with Nobs but your opponent goes first. In stead of only having 3 Nobs to attack back with you have all 5 and those to Nobs that were not killed give you an extra 8 attacks.

Also if you have a wounded Nob in the unit and all the Nobs are different you can pawn off insta kill wounds.

If an attack causes instant death you must first remove a whole unwounded model from models with the same war gear, equipment and stats.

SO because all the models are different you assign the wound to a Nob with one wound. And because there are no other SAME models the wounded Nob is the only available casualty.

[DarkLink]

And you can use it to minimize incoming damage. Let's say a unit rapidfires the Nobz, and has two meltaguns. Those meltaguns will insta-kill the bikers. But if the bolters cause enough wounds, then you can put the two melta shots on the same model, minimizing your losses. Only one Nob is killed, rather than 2.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

That particular version of the technique works well when you have a unit of single-wound models, as well.

I have heard of many people not firing their standard weapons and only firing their strong stuff at squads like this, however, in order to ensure that every wound is a worthwhile wound on a separate model, giving you no scrubby bolter or lasgun wounds to play with stacking.

[Tarrandus]

That particular version of the technique works well when you have a unit of single-wound models, as well.

I have heard of many people not firing their standard weapons and only firing their strong stuff at squads like this, however, in order to ensure that every wound is a worthwhile wound on a separate model, giving you no scrubby bolter or lasgun wounds to play with stacking.

Yeah, that version can be as annoying as heck. It comes up a lot when I run genestealers. As soon as you cause enough wounds, you end up killing less models. :rolleyes: If I fight 5 marines and get 4 rends and 6 wounds, They can double stack rends so only 2 die outright, and the rest of course, pass their saves. Seems I would kill more if I hadn't caused extra wounds.

[BuFFo]

That particular version of the technique works well when you have a unit of single-wound models, as well.

I have heard of many people not firing their standard weapons and only firing their strong stuff at squads like this, however, in order to ensure that every wound is a worthwhile wound on a separate model, giving you no scrubby bolter or lasgun wounds to play with stacking.

Very true....

Sometimes, I will only fire my Chem Cannon and ignore my Heavy Flamer on my Bane Wolf because of clever stacking...

[Culven]

Yeah, that version can be as annoying as heck. It comes up a lot when I run genestealers. As soon as you cause enough wounds, you end up killing less models. :rolleyes: If I fight 5 marines and get 4 rends and 6 wounds, They can double stack rends so only 2 die outright, and the rest of course, pass their saves. Seems I would kill more if I hadn't caused extra wounds.
You may want to make sure that your opponents are applying the rules correctly. I still run into players who mistakenly believe that the model to which the wounds were assigned is the only one which can be a casualty for them, when in fact wounds on the entire group, will be spread amoungst all models in the group.

For example:

5 Marines (including a Sergeant, Special Weapon, and 3 Grunts). 6 regular wounds and 4 Rending wounds. Each Marine will be assigned two wounds. Lets say that the Marine player really wants to keep the Sergeant and Special weapon. They will be assigned two non-Rending wounds each. The remaining wounds will be assigned to the 3 grunts. Move on to attempting Saves by group. The Grunts don't have a Save against the Rending, so all three die due to the Rending wounds, the Sergeant attempts Armour Saves, and the Special Weapon attempts Armour Saves. If either of them fails a Save, they are removed as a casualty.

[Tarrandus]

You may want to make sure that your opponents are applying the rules correctly. I still run into players who mistakenly believe that the model to which the wounds were assigned is the only one which can be a casualty for them, when in fact wounds on the entire group, will be spread amoungst all models in the group.

For example:

5 Marines (including a Sergeant, Special Weapon, and 3 Grunts). 6 regular wounds and 4 Rending wounds. Each Marine will be assigned two wounds. Lets say that the Marine player really wants to keep the Sergeant and Special weapon. They will be assigned two non-Rending wounds each. The remaining wounds will be assigned to the 3 grunts. Move on to attempting Saves by group. The Grunts don't have a Save against the Rending, so all three die due to the Rending wounds, the Sergeant attempts Armour Saves, and the Special Weapon attempts Armour Saves. If either of them fails a Save, they are removed as a casualty.

Kewl, I though the double stack always looked fishy but I just went with it. I've got a 4th ed, but I don't actually have a 5th ed rulebook so I can't easily double check on rules things. Sounds like they're doing what you said in the first part, treating each model as its own group. Thanks dude :D

[Nabterayl]

Kewl, I though the double stack always looked fishy but I just went with it. I've got a 4th ed, but I don't actually have a 5th ed rulebook so I can't easily double check on rules things. Sounds like they're doing what you said in the first part, treating each model as its own group. Thanks dude :D
Mind, the sergeant and special weapons guy are their own groups. So if he wanted to he could put two rending ones on each and have the three grunts take, collectively, six saves.