Chaos Bikers

[Lykum]

Again, still new to 40k. Bear with me if my questions are dumb or already addressed, but I swear I looked for the answers before posting.

Anyway, the CSM codex states that the Chaos Bikers may trade a melta or plasma gun for their close combat weapon. However, even after the trade they are still equipped with a bolt pistol which counts as a close combat weapon. So does this line in the codex actually change anything as far as how the Chaos Biker functions? I know in the previous codex, the basic Chaos biker was allowed 2 attacks, so is this potentially a throwback to the previous setup?

Also, is the melta (or plasma) mounted to the bike? I would assume that since it is being traded for the close combat weapon, they can still use the twin-linked bolters mounted on the bike. I would assume this is an either/or situation since firing the bolters and the melta would be freakin sweet.

Lastly, say I still want my Chaos Bikers to have the an extra close combat attack through the mark of Khorne... if I trade the close combat weapon for a melta, can I still take two attacks? I assume that the Chaos Marine bolt pistol isn't a muzzle loader, so they could probably get off two shots with the pistol if Khorne wills it.

Thanks.

[Nabterayl]

Again, still new to 40k. Bear with me if my questions are dumb or already addressed, but I swear I looked for the answers before posting.

Anyway, the CSM codex states that the Chaos Bikers may trade a melta or plasma gun for their close combat weapon. However, even after the trade they are still equipped with a bolt pistol which counts as a close combat weapon. So does this line in the codex actually change anything as far as how the Chaos Biker functions? I know in the previous codex, the basic Chaos biker was allowed 2 attacks, so is this potentially a throwback to the previous setup?
Yes, it means he no longer has two one-handed close combat weapons, and thus cannot claim the extra close combat Attack for having two one-handed CCWs. So a Chaos biker who makes this trade goes from having A1+1 to A1.


Also, is the melta (or plasma) mounted to the bike? I would assume that since it is being traded for the close combat weapon, they can still use the twin-linked bolters mounted on the bike. I would assume this is an either/or situation since firing the bolters and the melta would be freakin sweet.
Technically it's held in the hand, but if you wanted to model the melta/plasma on the bike, nobody would have reason to complain, because the position of the weapon on the model has no in-game effect. A Chaos biker with a melta/plasma gun does indeed have access to both his twin-linked bolters and his melta/plasma gun - but he can only fire one weapon per turn, so he still has to choose whether to fire the bolters or the melta/plasma.


Lastly, say I still want my Chaos Bikers to have the an extra close combat attack through the mark of Khorne... if I trade the close combat weapon for a melta, can I still take two attacks? I assume that the Chaos Marine bolt pistol isn't a muzzle loader, so they could probably get off two shots with the pistol if Khorne wills it.
If you mean two close combat Attacks (which is what the A part of the model's statline refers to, and what the Mark - well, the Icon - of Khorne affects), then yes. Note, however, that if you gave your Chaos bikers the Icon of Khorne and kept the CCW, they would have three Attacks - one base, one for the Icon of Khorne, and one for having two one-handed close combat weapons.

[Lykum]

[QUOTE=Nabterayl;40205]Yes, it means he no longer has two one-handed close combat weapons, and thus cannot claim the extra close combat Attack for having two one-handed CCWs. So a Chaos biker who makes this trade goes from having A1+1 to A1.

Are you counting the bolt pistol as a close combat weapon? Meaning, he has his normal close combat weapon and the pistol, so he gets 2 close combat attacks? The statline for A reads just A1, not A1+1. Basically just like a standard Chaos Marine. So if we disregard the fact that he is a biker for a second and treat him just like a standard CM (besides the bike they have the exact same equipment and stats) how many close combat attacks should he be making?

Not trying to be nitpicky, just trying to understand.

[Cryl]

[QUOTE=Nabterayl;40205]Yes, it means he no longer has two one-handed close combat weapons, and thus cannot claim the extra close combat Attack for having two one-handed CCWs. So a Chaos biker who makes this trade goes from having A1+1 to A1.

Are you counting the bolt pistol as a close combat weapon? Meaning, he has his normal close combat weapon and the pistol, so he gets 2 close combat attacks? The statline for A reads just A1, not A1+1. Basically just like a standard Chaos Marine. So if we disregard the fact that he is a biker for a second and treat him just like a standard CM (besides the bike they have the exact same equipment and stats) how many close combat attacks should he be making?

Not trying to be nitpicky, just trying to understand.

A biker or regular CSM has 1 attack on their statline. They gain a bonus attack for having a bolt pistol and CC weapon which is what the A1+1 Nabterayl mentioned was intended to show. If they replace either the pistol or the CC weapon for something that is not a one handed CC Weapon (or a powerfist / thunder hammer but they're exceptions) then they will not gain the 'bonus' attack leaving them with 1 attack only. Obviously if they charge they gain the bonus attack for that regardless.

Does that help clarify?

[Culven]

Are you counting the bolt pistol as a close combat weapon? Meaning, he has his normal close combat weapon and the pistol, so he gets 2 close combat attacks? The statline for A reads just A1, not A1+1.
A model's statline won't typically show bonus attacks for equipment. In this case, CSMs have one Attack on their statline. Most have a Bolt Pistol and CCW. Since Pistols are treated as a CCW in combat, this will grant +1 Attack in combat. If the Bolt Pistol OR CCW is replaced, then the model will no longer have the two CCWs necessary for the bonus attack.

[Lykum]

[QUOTE=Lykum;40263]

A biker or regular CSM has 1 attack on their statline. They gain a bonus attack for having a bolt pistol and CC weapon which is what the A1+1 Nabterayl mentioned was intended to show. If they replace either the pistol or the CC weapon for something that is not a one handed CC Weapon (or a powerfist / thunder hammer but they're exceptions) then they will not gain the 'bonus' attack leaving them with 1 attack only. Obviously if they charge they gain the bonus attack for that regardless.

Does that help clarify?

That helps a lot. Thanks. Is there some place in the rule book that I can point to this if/when someone calls me out?

More questions just to make sure I am totally grasping this... What about the case of my Khorne Berzerkers? They have A2 in their statline, plus a bolt pistol and CCW, so are they a A2+1 (3 close combat attacks)?

This is good to know this since I am basically trying to figure out the exact role I want my bike squadron to play. I see them as either tank killers equipped with melta, or a fun and easy way to slaughter smaller groups of infantry. If I go the route of infantry killers I was thinking of adding the Icon of Slannesh to boost the initiative since they already have 2 attacks.

My wife plays as Tau, so I have never been really hurting for extra close combat attacks against the Kroot, but this is all good to know for when I make the 3 hour drive to the closest gaming store in San Antonio.

[Nabterayl]

That helps a lot. Thanks. Is there some place in the rule book that I can point to this if/when someone calls me out?
Page 37


More questions just to make sure I am totally grasping this... What about the case of my Khorne Berzerkers? They have A2 in their statline, plus a bolt pistol and CCW, so are they a A2+1 (3 close combat attacks)?
Yes, they are.

[Lykum]

Rockin! Thanks!

I can't belive I overlooked that now. I think the fluff part of 40k is what makes it fun, but it makes it really tough to sift through what you need to know.

[Culven]

This is good to know this since I am basically trying to figure out the exact role I want my bike squadron to play. I see them as either tank killers equipped with melta, or a fun and easy way to slaughter smaller groups of infantry
I am considering Bikes armed with Meltaguns to pop Transports, have another unit thin out the squad that just fell out ot the Transport with some shooting, and then assault the remnants with the Bike squad. Icon of Khorne could be useful for this. For a mobile shooty unit, I would probably go with the Icon of Nurgle to make them T4(6).

[Cryl]

Rockin! Thanks!

I can't belive I overlooked that now. I think the fluff part of 40k is what makes it fun, but it makes it really tough to sift through what you need to know.

Hey I know the feeling, I remember wondering all sorts of things when I started to play again... it's amazing how quick you start to take rules that like for granted though, glad we could help