Warriors of Chaos Killing Machine 2000 point list

[Exemplar Of The Host]

Hi guys

So I recently signed up BoLS so thought I would put my latest list up for discussion for my Warriors of Chaos. Now usually I play with a Daemon allie for some of their character choices as my opponents that I regularly play hate them lol. But this is my pure Warriors list at a semi-comptetive level. There are tweaks needed especially depending on what type of game you are playing but this is it so far:

LORD:
Level 4 Sorcerer of Tzeentch on Disc, Soul Feeder, S4 Breath Weapon, Enchanted Shield, Third Eye, Armour of Destiny, Crown of Command, Sword of Striking

HEROE:
Exalted Hero, Battle Standard Bearer, Halberd, Tzeentch, Other Trickster's Shard, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Shield

Exalted Hero, Tzeentch, Armour of Fortune, Shield, Halberd


CORE:
20x Chaos Warriors, Tzeentch, Shields, Full Command (Hero starts here)

10x Warhounds, Scaly Hide
10x Warhounds, Scaly Hide

SPECIAL:
Warshrine, Tzeentch

10x Chosen, Tzeentch, War Banner (battle standard and Lord start here)

RARE:
Hellcannon

Comes in at 1993

Obviously all Tzeentch army so very powerful with all the ward saves. My Lord is down to 1+ armour and 3+ ward with re-roll 1's on failed ward save, one hero is down to 2+, 6+ and the other is 3+,4+ so they can hopefully go around challenging the hell out of anything and hopefully with the halberds on strength 6 with 4 attacks should do some notable damage.

The warriors should stay long enough to last the game but usually end up being targeted by the magic users, which is fine cause I need one distraction.

Hounds are their to flank and distract and will stay just in range to block charges to the chosen and the warriors.

Chosen are their to feed off the Shrine and continuosly try and reach Daemonhood (done before relatively easily, works even better with fateweaver in the list to re-roll once per turn, so keep casting the shrines bound spell and then re-roll what you want to try and reach double 6)

Hellcannon sits back and fires

Shrine maybe ties up a unit to stop bad magic missiles and targeting spells from being used.

The first list I am facing this with is Vampire Counts, and I have played his list numerous times so I know exactly what he has. Other lists I will face are High Elves, Orc and Goblins, Ogres and Dwarves.

What do you guys think? Are there any weak areas or points that would be better spent elsewhere? Only thing I say is I am avoiding using a Daemon Prince to start with as I have played that list to death lol

[Chronowraith]

I find that lists that rely on a gimmick to function properly often fail pretty reliably. Sure, you can cast the warshrine and occasionally get the spell off and then rarely reach daemonhood. This simply isn't a reliable method as it has too many variables and too many ways to take parts of the equation out of the game. Warshrines are incredibly squishy for WoC and slow as dirt. 10 Chosen are pretty easy to kill off... a 6+ ward isn't going to protect them from focus fire, magic, etc.

The characters in the list are a bit perplexing. Why have a Lord on a disc but put him with the chosen? For the armor save bump? Not worth it. The non-bsb character is pointless. His only purpsoe is either to be turned into a daemon or to "survive". Sure he's a chaos hero and is pretty choppy but a mediocre character geared up a little more efficiently will wipe the floor with him. The warhounds are less than optimal for what you want them to do. You'd be better off with lightly kitted marauders.

This list would be out-deployed, out-manuevered, and once a couple of models are mitigated (hellcannon, chosen) it would have minimal teeth with which to take home victory.

I'll try and be a bit more constructive later.. but I have to go pick up my daughter at the moment so this post is cut short.

[Exemplar Of The Host]

Hi Chronowraith thanks for responding

I'll just make it clear that the army isn't built around the ascend to daemonhood idea. The sub-aim for the chosen is to increase their chance in doing so. The Lord in the chosen unit is to use minimal numbers as Im sure your aware Chaos are slightly expensive so using him enabled the unit he is in to be stubborn thus steadfast thus does not rely on ranks and ranks of models.

The vampire counts army i am facing first has one decent character, vampire lord. The exalted heros are their as a back up to avoid using my lord in a challenge. The lord is in the unit to buff them then move out of the unit at a later stage to avoid being challenged or targeted. The main idea was to play around with trying to make stuff survivable, the characters are going to be taking lots of kills mate. The bsb provides what slaanesh would allow, warriors are tough anyway so vs vc's they are practically gaining nurgles ability, plus they have 2 attacks base with the warriors and chosen and combat buffs so they are basically attacking with just under khornes ability so it's a list that to me incorporates all the 4 marks but all with ward saves. In my experience a 6+ ward is better than nothing, I've run this list with the warriors as nurgle with festus in their and 6+ regen worked just as well. Chosen are going to sit behind warriors and either flank to lose rank bonus or be a tarpet for the lord.

And I would like further explanation on how the shrine is squishy with a 4+ armour and 3+ ward save??

[Chronowraith]

Okay, a few comments.

The lord only passes on stubborn because of the crown of command. You could give the crown to either of the exalted heroes and it will still serve the same purpose. This would free the lord up to take advantage of the mobility offered by the disc. Sticking him on a disc and then throwing him in a unit is largely a waste of points as, at that point, the only benefit are the 3S4 WS3 attacks and the +1 armor save. Given that he displaces two chosen (discs are monstrous mounts and thus on a 50mmx50mm base) you are giving up more than you gain at that point.

As a side note, versus Vampire Counts WoC shouldn't need to rely on Steadfast. They should be winning the fights minus the vampire lord and even then... an exalted hero can give him a run for his money.

My bad. I always forget about the 4+ ward on the shrine. Nonetheless.. I've never been a fan because it's horribly slow and the bound spell almost always gets dispelled (or you never have enough power dice).

Why so afraid of having the lord be challenged? He's actually good in combat and has the defenses to withstand a pretty intense attack.

When you say the BSB "provides what Slaanesh would allow" I assume you are talking about immunity to psychology? That doesn't really make them anymore killy. I'm not sure what buffs you are talking about that provide "khorne's ability". Shrine? Lore of Metal? I'm not seeing anything that gives +1 attack.

Personally I'd at least drop the non-bsb exalted hero for more chosen. I'd likely split the wargounds up into three units of 5 with vanguard. I, personally, would drop the warshrine. Points would then be used on bloodcrushers or a chimera or possibly a chariot or two.

[Ben_S]

I'm a very novice WoC player, but I've spent a lot of time reading up on and talking about them, so I have some idea of the 'conventional wisdom'.

Your Lord, aside from anything else, is illegal because he has two pieces of magic armour. And doesn't flying mean he can't join a unit?

Neither Chosen nor Warshrines are highly regarded, unless you just have them for fluff rather than competitiveness. If you do want to run them, I'd put in more than ten Chosen, since a unit that size isn't much good for anything.

Conversely, ten dogs in a unit seems over the top. They're still just chaff, so why not split each unit into two fives? And buy vanguard, rather than scaly hides.

Hallcannon is fine, especially since you have a slow, footslogger list, but everyone raves about how awesome Skullcrushers are, so they would be the obvious Rare choice for a killy list.

[Chronowraith]

I agree with all of Ben's comments and that's largely what I was aiming at in my above posts.

10 Chosen are pretty pointless. Especially if you aim to have them flank charge and take away rank bonuses as all the opponent has to do is kill a single model and the rank bonus is gone (or three with characters in the unit). Not hard to do.

As Ben pointed out.. two armors is illegal. If you want the ward just buy the talisman... it's cheaper and then you get to keep your chaos armor which offers a better armor save. (Good catch Ben).

As for the flying character in a unit..he's fine. Characters can't join flying units but there is nothing indicating the opposite other than the obvious downside of paying points to give them flying and being unable to fly.

[Exemplar Of The Host]

Well, after the criticism received on a poorly constructed list they actually did pretty well.
The game ended in a win for me and very little casualties , overall all dogs and 8 warriors and a hero from a crappy challenge.

The shrine did fine apart from a poorly judged charge on my part but it still survived. I managed to get my bound spell off 4 out of 5 times buffing the chosen incredibly down to strength 5, 4+ ward and +1 attack which enabled me to wipe out 20 ghouls in 2 turns taking no casualties back.

The warriors struggled a bit but dealt with a triple charge which included 6 crypt horrors and the war hounds tied up the annoyances like bats and ethereal crap.
The cannon worked 50/50 and managed to assist in killing the horrors and some skeletons.

I still like my lord set up but require some explanation to how he is taking two magic armours? An enchanted shield is a shield in all respects. As for flying he didn't join the unit this time in the end but is fine to do so if he chooses. Against the vampires I like this list as it's a grinder for combat nothing else. Even though warriors are twice as strong hordes of zombies and skeletons with invocation bringing them back is a pain in the *** and almost impossible to force the entire unit to crumble through instability.

Against other armies yes I would change it but from that result it's a list I would use again.

Just want to point out too that these lists aren't for tournament rubbish they are merely fun games with an aim to improve list building and trying out units that others say are useless.

Personally the war shrine is a great addition and not expensive, skullcrushers are about as boring as a flying level 4 wizard with purple sun

[Chronowraith]

Just because a list performs well doesn't mean it's a great list. Opponent's make mistakes, their list may be sub-par, and the dice are always random... nonetheless, I'm glad it worked out for you. Additionally, it helps that the augment spell from the warshrine was applied incorrectly.

The entire unit from the Chosen would not be affected by the bound spell from the warshrine. First, the spell specifies that it only affects d3 models. Secondly, it states that only models with the "Eye of the Gods" special rule can be affected. Lastly, they have to be within 12". The most important of these is the second as the only model in the Chosen unit (other than any characters attached) that posses the "Eye of the Gods" rule is the Chosen Champion. In your army there are only 5 models that could be affected by the bound spell: Sorcerer Lord, Exlated Hero BSB, Exalted Hero, Chosen Champion, and Chaos Warrior Champion. Just an FYI. This is commonly misplayed with the new book because the previous book did allow the chosen to roll again and again as they killed off units (if I remember correctly, it's been awhile).

My previous points were simply that your chosen list is not the most efficient for an "all-comers" list. Facing off against Dwarfs, Skaven, Empire, or even Dark/High Elves would present a different challenge. I always gear my lists as "all-comers" as it reduces the number of models I have to buy and makes the game more enjoyable since I have to adapt my tactics to a new opponent rather than adapt my army list.

Yes, the Enchanted Shield is a shield in all respects. Just like the Armor of Destiny is heavy armor in all respects. However both items are found in the Magic Items category of Magic Armor. You get one item per category as per the balance of power rule on page 303. It should also be pointed out that using a magic shield with a hand weapon of a magic weapon with a shield denies the user a parry save (as per page 306, last bullet item).

I find skullcrushers way more evocative and interesting than the warshrine, but that's a personal choice. Again, I never said the warshrine was useless, only that I find it subpar to other units in the special category (largely because it's so random and... slow). I'd much rather take Knights, Gorebeast Chariots, Chimera, Dragon Ogres, or even more chosen.

[Exemplar Of The Host]

Well thank you for your input anyway it's been helpful :-).

Btw chosen the unit take the benefit from the first roll before game starts not D3 models it's the unit, then subsequent it's the champ and I wrote the stats down wrong in the previous post. Whole unit received +1 attack and the champ got the increased ward etc

I've had very bad luck with knights in the past and I find that 5 are simply not enough, especially if targeted with lore of metal and the like they just die far too quickly so I'm looking at the best way to re run these as for 10 would be around 500 points

[Mr Mystery]

Main concern is that your army is pretty dinky, even for Warriors of Chaos.

Should things go belly up in HTH (and they do!) you'll lose a fair chunk of your force in one fell swoop.

Are you sure this is the correct points cost?