Armorbane and Primary Weapon

[This Dave]

Armorbane lets the model roll 2d6 for armor penetration. The Primary Weapon rule for SH vehicles says you may roll 2 dice and pick the highest for armor penetration. So what happens if you have a SH vehicle with a Primary Weapon that has Armorbane, such as the Macharius Vanquisher? Do you Roll 2d6 twice and pick the highest roll, just applying the Primary Weapon rule to the Armorbane roll? Or do you roll 3d6 and take the highest two, taking the Armorbane rule and applying the PW rule to one of the dice? Or is it a third way I haven't thought of?

[Deathscythe91]

Sounds like you would just roll 2D6 twice and keep the highest result.

[Asuryan]

i would roll 2d6 twice and take the highest combined roll.

[Wolfshade]

Just 2D6 and pick the highest.
Both rules say the same thing, if the wording used was "an additional D6 then pick the highest" then you can get your 3D6. In this situation any primary weapon is also armourbane.

Consider if it were Ordinance also, three rules allowing you to roll 2D6 and pick the highest.

[Haighus]

Just 2D6 and pick the highest.
Both rules say the same thing, if the wording used was "an additional D6 then pick the highest" then you can get your 3D6. In this situation any primary weapon is also armourbane.

Consider if it were Ordinance also, three rules allowing you to roll 2D6 and pick the highest.
Armourbane isn't 2D6 and pick the highest though, it is 2D6 and add the results together. They are different effects.

[DarkLink]

You roll two sets of 2d6, pick the highest.

[Houghten]

What weapon even has both of those rules?

[chicop76]

You can't re roll a dice. If you roll twice you are re rolling the same die. Makes sense what Link said. The rule is in the beginning pages of the book next to tlos and explaining the difference between a turn and a game turn.

[Wolfshade]

Having slept on it I see where DL is coming from, at one point I was thinking a roll 3 pick the two highest, but no I think the 2 2D6 pick the highest is the way forwards. Those these are additional dice not re-rolls strictly speaking

[daboarder]

Having slept on it I see where DL is coming from, at one point I was thinking a roll 3 pick the two highest, but no I think the 2 2D6 pick the highest is the way forwards. Those these are additional dice not re-rolls strictly speaking

be careful though, you need to roll two sets of 2D6 and pick the highest set, not 4D6 and pick the highest two

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

You're effectively gaining two attempts at punching through the armour, so rolling two separate lots of 2D6 is what you need to do. And as daboarder says, make sure it's not just a single group of 4D6.

[AirHorse]

Definitely fine with the general consensus on this, but I wanted to look up my book for armourbane having read this(which I don't have at work :(). Does armourbane say you roll 2d6 or does it say you add an additional d6? I cant remember. As if its the later it might be that you should roll 2d6 pick the highest(for primary weapon), then add an additional d6 for armourbane.

But as I said I cant see my book just now so its probably just my memory that sucks and two lots of 2d6 pick the highest is probably right :)

[This Dave]

What weapon even has both of those rules?

There may be others but the Macharius Vanquisher has both rules for its Vanquisher cannons. Which was fine when Primary Weapon just meant it was harder to damage but got a little wierd now.

[DarkLink]

Tank Hunters with Ordinance works the same way as this.

[Houghten]

There may be others but the Macharius Vanquisher has both rules for its Vanquisher cannons. Which was fine when Primary Weapon just meant it was harder to damage but got a little wierd now.

Doesn't.

It had both rules back when Primary Weapon was as you stated (and back when it was a rule instead of a type), but as of Imperial Armour Apocalypse (the post-6e version) it's just Heavy 1, Armourbane, Twin-Linked.

[This Dave]

Doesn't.

It had both rules back when Primary Weapon was as you stated (and back when it was a rule instead of a type), but as of Imperial Armour Apocalypse (the post-6e version) it's just Heavy 1, Armourbane, Twin-Linked.

And in Imperial Armour Volume One Second Edition (the newest version) in the weapon summary the Macharius Vanquisher Battle Cannon has both Armorbane and Primary Weapon in its listing. I believe this is the newest version of the rules for that vehicle.

[dasher03]

Armorbane lets the model roll 2d6 for armor penetration. The Primary Weapon rule for SH vehicles says you may roll 2 dice and pick the highest for armor penetration. So what happens if you have a SH vehicle with a Primary Weapon that has Armorbane, such as the Macharius Vanquisher? Do you Roll 2d6 twice and pick the highest roll, just applying the Primary Weapon rule to the Armorbane roll? Or do you roll 3d6 and take the highest two, taking the Armorbane rule and applying the PW rule to one of the dice? Or is it a third way I haven't thought of?
If you read the rules atrociously literally, then I don't think you should get a reroll for armourbane at all. The rule armourbane simply states that you roll 2d6 for armor penetration. Depending on the exact wording of the Primary Weapon rule (you say it "may" roll 2 dice and pick the highest) perhaps there is no bonus to be gained. It's a roundabout way of giving you the option, which doesn't make sense, but hey. Words.

[DarkLink]

That actually is a good point. However, you still have a conflict between the two rules where one says to keep both dice, and the other says to keep only one.

[mikeramos]

And in Imperial Armour Volume One Second Edition (the newest version) in the weapon summary the Macharius Vanquisher Battle Cannon has both Armorbane and Primary Weapon in its listing. I believe this is the newest version of the rules for that vehicle.

Sorry Dave it's not the most current one

[Houghten]

The big hint that it's not the most current one is the Structure Points instead of Hull Points.

[This Dave]

Well damn, you guys are right. Wish they'd put a bigger date somewhere in the book besides the tiny one in the copyright notice.

Never mind then, that makes the tank straightforward to use.

[david5th]

I've got IA V1 2nd Ed IG.

The blast shell round does have the primary weapon special rule HOWEVER the Ap shell does not.

[mikeramos]

I've got IA V1 2nd Ed IG.

The blast shell round does have the primary weapon special rule HOWEVER the Ap shell does not.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the new apocalypse book come out after it so then the ones in IA vol 1 2ed. are not the current rules

[This Dave]

It did indeed come out after. One thing that confuses the issue a bit is that the Forge World list of what is Escalation legal says both the new IA Apocalypse book as well as IA 1 2nd edition as where to find the rules for the Macharius Vanquisher.

The Primary Weapon rules work just fine for the blast shells since it basically turns them into a giant Battlecannon. It's with the Armorbane rule for the AP shells that the Primary Weapon rule got weird.

[david5th]

They're the current rules for that model as it doesn't appear in the new Apoc book. :)

[This Dave]

They're the current rules for that model as it doesn't appear in the new Apoc book. :)

Not the actual Apocalypse rule book. They're in the New Imperial Armor Apocalypse book. And in that book all the Macharius variants except for the Omega lost the Primary Weapon rule for their main guns.

[DarkLink]

It is in the 2013 Imperial Armour Apocalypse. I'm looking at the entry right now.

[Archon Charybdis]

It did indeed come out after. One thing that confuses the issue a bit is that the Forge World list of what is Escalation legal says both the new IA Apocalypse book as well as IA 1 2nd edition as where to find the rules for the Macharius Vanquisher.

Likewise the Eldar vehicles got their rules updated in the newest IA:A (read both strength reduced and points increased), but the FAQ says to either reference IA:A or IA11. So I'm totes taking the OLD Cobra with the gun that was both waaaay better and 100pts cheaper.

[david5th]

Yeah i've just noticed that difference in the 2 books.