if 3d printing became successful?

[Xaric]

would we get models from a 3d printer one day and how would people feel about this?

[Morgrim]

One day, yes. I can't predict when though. At least 5 years I estimate. I'm basing this off the fact that several companies use 3D printing to make their masters but in every case once the model is printed it requires painstaking cleaning and adjustments being made with greenstuff before it is ready to cast; if the very expensive high end printing is still poorer quality than metal in rubber mold casting, then the technology isn't going to work for cheap and quick home printing. Or even small quantity garage printing given how slow printing a single model currently is.

Now give things a decade or so and it will be very different but I'm not confident enough to predict what will happen.

[Xaric]

I guess do you remember the film toy solders maybe it will be like that then they would possibly mass produce the models at lower there costs. I found out why GW cost for models have increased and before people think its because GW want more money that's not the 100% truth of it all some friend's who work for GW have had chats with the sculptures at GW hq when going to warhammer world events use a new form of molding process that the benefit is it makes a more detail cast that last longer before deterioration of the molds set in making the molds of the master mold. But the bad side of it makes a higher risk of fail casting that wastes the product about 75% of it i am just guessing estimates can not be reused or salvaged due to it deteriorates. I don't blame GW for the high cost hell they make great models but I wish they wouldn't cost so much but I guess also it is there busyness and they can run it how they like but i've lost so many friend's who can't do wargameing because they simply can't afford it or choose a different game all together like warmachine its interesting but my heart is stuck with warhammer still waiting to have my first apoc game I have the book so all I can do is read about it and due to the xmas holidays the shop I go to is always full of people on the tables so I can't seem to organize a big time slot for a apoc game but when the kids go back to school maybe ill have more of a chance.

[SaveModifier]

3D printing is succesful, just not for model soldier making on a mass scale, and it probably never will be because of inhenant limitations on the technology, its always going to be slower and more expensive than plasdtic injection molding currently used for hard plastic models.

As Morgrim pointed out, companies are now using 3d modelling and printing to make prototypes and proofs and even masters to take molds from for resin casting, but due to the nature of 3d printing and the resolution issues it presents, these require too much time and skill to clean up ready for use.

Bear in mind, with current technologies, GW can produce thousands of models and hour with the plastic injection systems they use, one lone 3d printer would take hours to make what would take seconds, running enough of them the match the scale of injection molding would take up a lot more space and power, which are significant considerations for a business.

Where it could make an impact are in specialist custom parts, a head swap or weapon that is exactly what you like, printed to order, that you can either print off yourself or pick up from a local shop.

People said that home printers would kill off book sales and colour printers would kill off magazines and photographs, neither actually did because the consumer level machines were too slow and expensive to run to compete with the mass production methods, its the same thing here. 3d printing is an interesting technology and no doubt we will see some usefull things emerging from it, but replacing mass produced miniatures or anything like that is very unlikey

[Caitsidhe]

It will make more impact than just custom parts. While it isn't cost effective for Games Workshop or big companies to do the clean up on countless models before shipping, it is perfectly cost effective and simple for the gamer him/herself to do it. I know because I've already printed things myself making use of a high end printer at the University where I worked. It suffices to say that you can't tell the difference between the original and the copy. The clean up time per piece is negligible in small numbers, i.e. the amount a normal gamer would use. Let me assure you they can produce everything being put out right now.

I expect that by "successful" you mean that 3D Printers of a suitable level will become available at a price which isn't cost prohibitive. If this happens, I expect we would see a mirror of what is happening in the music industry. Contrary to all the gloom and doomsayers, music hasn't gone away. Artists aren't starving in the streets. The only thing taking a serious hit is the big companies. Many of the artists now directly market and make use of the new technology. It will go something like this:

1. Rampant Piracy.
2. Price readjustment.
3. Most people will buy direct and print themselves.

Will Games Workshop survive that? Who know? In some shape or form I'm sure their name and brand will, but no they will not exist as the entity you know today. The world keeps on changing. We run to keep up. Some fall behind. The 3D Printer isn't a technology that is going to go away. There are too many big companies (and by that I mean REAL big companies) with a vested interest in them. Games Workshop serves a respectable gamer base. That is NOTHING compared to the market that 3D Printers will serve. They are coming. Winter is coming. It will make way to a glorious spring for the consumer at least.

[Mr Mystery]

It's not just GW though. It could deal a heavy blow to all miniature manufacturers.

Due to 3d printings current slow speeds (no idea if this can be improved upon) it's the skirmish games that are at most risk. You're more likely to attempt an entirely pirated skirmish force of a dozen models than a full scale 40k army, at least in the first instance.

[Kyban]

The companies that roll with it will do the best. They'll have to start selling the 3d model files to print from as IP, you buy the file and then can print those models. They'll have to do it soon though 3D printers are almost there, I've been looking at one for around $3000 that should be able to print good enough quality for miniatures, a little pricey still but I already own more than that in plastic crack.

[Caitsidhe]

Speed is an issue; I agree wholeheartedly. However, speed is never really an issue for long. Speeding up a process has never really been a problem for technology. They are already faster than they used to be, and I expect that is one of the things a lot of time and energy is being directed upon. They have already cracked making the things able to do as much detail as required. They really don't cost a lot to produce. It is just a matter of speed. I'm far more optimistic about speed and see it solved within a year or two at most. New industries respond quickly to problems which prohibit sales.

And yes, I agree it will hit companies across the board. I believe, as with the music industry, that piracy will be rampant and UNSTOPPABLE. Eventually the games industry will accept this (as the music industry did) and attempt to change its model in time. Had they been faster, I think the big companies could have kept their boot to throat control. The same thing will happen here. It will be bad for any company try to keep absolute control of their product to manipulate profit, but great for artists and companies who direct market and/or go with the flow. For better or for worst, the genie is out of the bottle. There is no stuffing it back in. It is my belief that our current blitzkrieg by Games Workshop (a serious shift in their market policies of the past) is related. They are just as aware (far better educated in fact than the general public) of what 3D Printers can and will do.

[Arkhan Land]

No lies Ive totally copied big aquillas from time to time to use for imperial terrain, it aint hard. Im currently in the middle of trying to cast a dead rat on a piece of pizza for a friend of mines record label. its easy as pie.
The world of reproduction is already alive and well in the hands of the chinese/russians, what would be cool is if 3-d printing made it more feasible for individuals not to copy the work of others, but to create works of their own! If I had a 3-d printer right now I would be making all sorts of dumb stuff that didnt exist already, bits that hadnt been gribbled or made, maybe even whole vehicles for which no kit exists right now. Or I could even be drafting myself in as a commisioned officer in my IG army. Screw copying models of the primarchs, I want to make 28mm mini-versions of myself to lead my chapter!

that said yes, there would be mad copiers, im just trying to give an alternate point here.

[Mr Mystery]

Not sure the piracy would be on the same scale as music and film...

Music and film? Everyone likes that sort of stuff. And to nick it, you just need a computer of some kind. Most people have those in the western world.

But 3D Printing piracy? For the general bloke in the street.....theres really not that much need to have your own 3D printer at home. Reckon we'll see them in the High Street, no problem. But if they can't proliferate into the home the price won't come down to the point where they'll proliferate just by being cheap.

Then there's also the pretty big assumption that people are inherently dishonest. Not everyone with a 3D printer will be looking to make pirated stuff, just as not everyone goes around downloading their media library on the free.

[Caitsidhe]

Not sure the piracy would be on the same scale as music and film...

Music and film? Everyone likes that sort of stuff. And to nick it, you just need a computer of some kind. Most people have those in the western world.

But 3D Printing piracy? For the general bloke in the street.....theres really not that much need to have your own 3D printer at home. Reckon we'll see them in the High Street, no problem. But if they can't proliferate into the home the price won't come down to the point where they'll proliferate just by being cheap.

Then there's also the pretty big assumption that people are inherently dishonest. Not everyone with a 3D printer will be looking to make pirated stuff, just as not everyone goes around downloading their media library on the free.

Actually they can and in the same way. All it takes is a 3D Scanner and the specs to any model are instantly transferable in the same way a song is. People just print at their end. Will it ever be on the scale of the music industry? No. There aren't that many gamers. Will it proportionally be on the scale within the gamer population? Yes. I suppose one possible boost to the hobby (and remember I don't define the hobby by the companies but by the players) is the price barrier to playing will drop. We might get a lot more people.

[Mr Mystery]

Only if I've already invested in a 3D Printer. And outside of us nerds, they may not have the demand to make it into most peoples houses. 3D Print shops in the High Street? Yep. That I can definitely see, ala photocopiers used to be.

And without the proliferation in the home, the price won't benefit from economy of scale. Indeed, any printer capable of not producing crappy detail miniatures is likely to be at the upper end, further restricting the potential of piracy.

It's not that it's definitely out of the window, but the technology does face hurdles not faced by other mediums. Scanners and Printers? Pretty common, as they're universally useful. But 3D printing? Useful, but not universally. Leastways not until the price comes down significantly. Lower price = proliferation, but proliferation requires lowered price. Lowered price requires proliferation. Chicken and Egg, and one that will go on and on for the time being :)

[Psychosplodge]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2mg9jes.jpg

found on tumblr (http://daaurpoj.tumblr.com/post/74657375935/leman-russ-made-using-a-3d-printer)


Leman Russ made using a 3D printer.

[Mr Mystery]

Looks it too.....

[Psychosplodge]

True.
But is that the printer, or the designers fault?
Looking at that its makes me think larger kits are going to be affected a lot sooner than I personally anticipated.
The smaller ones are probably safe for a good while yet.

[Mr Mystery]

Probably a bit of both.

The designer is limited by the technology, but needs to be able to push that technology as far as it can go.

That one above, whilst not a travesty, does stick out as a ropey knock off. And I dread to think how long it took to print!

[Psychosplodge]

Probably in the region of forever.
It's still fairly recognisable as what its supposed to be.
It's better than I thought they could do.

[Necron2.0]

Just for clarity, when we're saying, "If 3D printing became successful," what do we mean? Bear in mind that many of the master minis for companies like Raging Heroes, Kingdom Death and even Citadel are 3D printed anymore.