Void Shield Generator Exploit!

[interrogator_chaplain]

Well now, everyone's reading Escalation and freaking out about D Weapons and I'm just sitting here reading Stronghold Assault. And you know what I've found? A little thing called a loophole, and not just a small one, this could be a potentially huge exploit.

For those of you with the book, mosey on over to pg.31. For those of you who don't have it, I'll lay it out here:
Picture: Forbidden by the Inquisition
Void Shield Generator (Cost: 1 unmodified Dark Angels Land Speeder)
AV:13
Access & Firepoints: None
Weapons: None
Special Rules: Projected Void Shields: Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect. (Measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator Building.)
Options:
-May take up to two additional projected Void Shields (Cost: 1 Missile Launcher with Flakk Missiles)
-May take items from the Obstacles list.

(I'm not going to get into the specific rules of the void shield but it's basically AV12, 1 Hull Point and if lost roll on the controlling players turn, 5+ to restore it.)

To going through those items there, what exactly don't you see? Everything should be there, and it pretty well would be. Except for we don't have a standard model for a Void Shield Generator, or any pictures to go by.

What the book doesn't provide us with is a baseline measurement of the dimensions of this building.

"Are you thinking what I'm thinking Pinky?"

"I think so Brain, but how are we going to teach a walrus to play the saxophone?"

No, my friend. I'm thinking about a gigantic 2'X1' Void Shield Generator building that's what I'm thinking. Take a look again at those rules: "Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect. (Measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator Building.)"

Or hell, you could make a building that spans the entire length of your deployment zone. And get yourself a foot-long bubble of AV12, 3 Void Shield goodness off your first turn.

Not to mention that the Void Relay Network allows you to take up to 3 Void Shield Generators. In doing so you could set yourself up a meaty advance defence with up to 9 AV12 Shields standing in between your opponent and you. For the exact same cost as one Godhammer-pattern Land Raider and a stock Land Speeder.

So, is this building the size of a city block? Or is it the size of a barn owl clinging to a country fence? I'm not sure about you guys, but a hefty 2 foot large building providing cover and 3 Void Shields (That can stop a strength D shot in its tracks mind you.) sounds pretty dang good to me.

Revenant Titan? What-me worry?

[Katharon]

You know that little voice in the back of your head that says "Hey buddy, maybe we shouldn't be a douche?". I think you smothered yours. That said, they guys at GW did drop the ball on this one. They should have provided some basic dimensions, especially when they don't provide a model for it.

However, I would say that, as general nice-guys rule, the building in question should fit the description (have battlements but not fire or access points) and be roughly the size of the "Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker." Otherwise, this will just get out of hand really quick.

[interrogator_chaplain]

I'm not saying I'm going to do it, it just sounds pretty dang good. I've got an idea for one that's 7" long by 5" wide and 5" tall including battlements.

I just found this little exploit and wanted to share with the group. :D

I play Dark Angels, not Taudar or fielding Trip-Tides. I just thought for once I could show up with a rather smug look upon my face. (Because I definitely don't get to do it often.)

[crazy_irish]

I think it is great, for any army. I think i'll use it for my dark eldar to cover my advance and its the perfect answer to D weapons and D weapons are the perfect answer to screamer star so is everything fixed?

[Denzark]

For an 'Assault on Hoth' style themed game, I wouldn't care how big it was as I get to quote General Veers as I shout 'Target - maximum firepower!'

For anything else I would think the individual was being a bellthronk and would respectfully decline to play him.

[Timmoth]

If you go by Forgeworld standards they have void shield generators on the Titan models, about the size of a coin.
The power supply isn't defined though, but the Titan hull piece that contains the plasma reactor is only a few inches at most, and I doubt anything that big would be needed for powering just the shield itself.

[epicwargamer]

(Measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator Building.) That is from a Point on the building. Points are the size of Periods. So like, from the kitchen. Im pretty sure the point does not move around.

[GravesDisease]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[dwez]

Ideally it should have stated building size - small [6"x6"], medium [9"x9", although a Bastion is classed as Medium and is smaller than this!] or large 12"x12". Without clear instructions this is the only guidance we've got.

Someone suggested on my blog that the DoW Plasma Generator template I made would make a decent VSG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGsqeTzHm0U/T4QUK_j5InI/AAAAAAAACXQ/RrI6_rwzt8M/s1600/115-P1050307.JPG

Isn't gaming for advantage so should appease your opponents. Anyway, .pdf template to make your own is at the bottom of this page [with all my other templates] http://40kaddict.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/terrain-is-everything-standard-template.html

[Badtucker]

i noticed the void shield comes with battlements. so its more likely to be on par with one of the sections of the fortress of redemption, the bits with the missiles attached.

[Katharon]

i noticed the void shield comes with battlements. so its more likely to be on par with one of the sections of the fortress of redemption, the bits with the missiles attached.




However, I would say that, as general nice-guys rule, the building in question should fit the description (have battlements but not fire or access points) and be roughly the size of the "Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker." Otherwise, this will just get out of hand really quick.

Done been said.

[Badtucker]

hah yes! sorry :D

[daboarder]

the void shield trick is cute.... until a revenant jumps over the damn thing and nukes you anyway

[Black1705f]

I would just like to remind certain people that less than 6 months ago I posed the question about point costs for certain fortification items that at the time did not have any rules. Not only was I told that such a question was stupid it was suggested that I was an idiot for even asking. Not only did they give all of the original Wall of Martyrs point values they received special rules. As if that wasn't enough they come out with even more fortifications, but don't worry you can simply step on them with your Apocalypse vehicles that are totally legal now. I seem to recall people telling me that it isn't GW's job to, "Spoon feed" me with rules...but now we just got fed a shovel full of crap to wash down with a tall glass of wtf.

By the way I can't wait for the private message apologies to start coming in that I'll never get.

Allow me to refresh some memories:

they're not a fortification mate.....

How do you think a wall of martyrs is anything different to a bunch of ruins.......I mean SOMEONE has to bring the terrain right?

I mean if you show up to a game and want to drop a martyr on your side of the table, GREAT! but I'm getting at least a crap tonne of ruins to ensure their is a balance, or we're running them through both zones....


So you want a points cost for one piece of terrain, and allege this is a failure on GW's behalf....but not other pieces, for seemingly arbitrary reasons?

Defence emplacements are just terrain. That's it.

Want to use them as a fortification? Use them as Aegis Lines.


Hello Brick Wall.

My name isn't Mr Mystery, but an online Pseudonym, but it will suffice.

Did you know, the Wall of Martyrs doesn't actually do anything beyond giving a pretty standard cover save? Well, it's true!

It seems its been included in Apocalypse formations purely for aesthetic reasons. After all, any strong point would look rubbish, and indeed be rubbish with whacking great holes in it, instead of firing steps and that....


Yes, it is wrong to ask for a points value because they are TERRAIN, not fortifications. How can you tell? Because they aren't in the Fortification section. Bunkers and trench lines are both in terrain section, with generic rules to accompany them. Bunkers are AV14 and trench lines give a 4+ cover save.


First of all THEY AREN'T FORTIFICATIONS! For ****s sake. They are terrain. They are terrain you can include WITH the listed fortifications as part of the formation so you can have a nice little complex set up without having to hope your opponent will play along and place the terrain where you want it to go. They don't cost anything because THEY NEITHER HAVE NOR NEED A POINTS COST!

They ARE NOT PURCHASED as part of a formation, they are included in the formation IF YOU WANT. They aren't purchased becuase THEY DO NOT HAVE A POINTS COST.

You can include the WoM terrain with your fortifications as part of a formation. You do not have to pay for them, because they have no points cost. They have no points cost because they are terrain, not fortifications. That is all.

I'm done, you're going on my ignore list.



you have to be trolling right?

I mean really?

[interrogator_chaplain]

For what it's worth, I've always felt that the WoM deserved to have rules and be taken as a Fortification option. Had I seen the exchange, I'd have been in your corner.

[Katharon]

For what it's worth, I've always felt that the WoM deserved to have rules and be taken as a Fortification option. Had I seen the exchange, I'd have been in your corner.

Seconded. Talk about jumping down someone's throat.

[Gir]

I would just like to remind certain people that less than 6 months ago I posed the question about point costs for certain fortification items that at the time did not have any rules. Not only was I told that such a question was stupid it was suggested that I was an idiot for even asking. Not only did they give all of the original Wall of Martyrs point values they received special rules. As if that wasn't enough they come out with even more fortifications, but don't worry you can simply step on them with your Apocalypse vehicles that are totally legal now. I seem to recall people telling me that it isn't GW's job to, "Spoon feed" me with rules...but now we just got fed a shovel full of crap to wash down with a tall glass of wtf.

By the way I can't wait for the private message apologies to start coming in that I'll never get.

Allow me to refresh some memories:

Nothings really changed. They can still be used as terrain like all the other fortifications. There's just now (poor) rules to take them as fortifications.

Having the rules is nice, but it was definitely not needed.

[DarkLink]

Seconded. Talk about jumping down someone's throat.

I would read the whole thread for yourself before jumping to conclusions. Eldargal, for example, usually only goes off on someone if they're really being a troll. Unless it comes to feminism, and then she'll go off on anyone who doesn't agree that the entire world is sexist.

[Nabterayl]

the entire world is sexist.
I knew you'd come around!

[Black1705f]

Yeah sure, just asking if GW is planning on giving some models rules or points is trolling. Go ahead and read the original thread and see for yourself. Also look at all posts with admin edits and tell me who was being the troll there. Some of you people are ridiculous. You don't know the answer to something so you simply make it up, speculate or act like the question is worth asking and then act like its gospel. All I ever asked is if it was possible they would ever come out with points and/or rules for some models and wow they did in a dedicated supplement no less. Now you're going to say well yeah but they weren't needed. Needed or not they made them and I seem to recall someone stating that it would never happen.


I can guarantee you they will not, because it is not needed.

Original thread for those who don't like reading out of context:
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?34325-New-Apoc-Terrain-Fortifications-Rules-Questions

[interrogator_chaplain]

Hrmm.. In context I do have to say that the negative response there might have been your defensive and the rather prickly nature of the replies you gave. I understand it's difficult when you don't get the on the spot responses you're expecting, but that doesn't mean you should start working in some of the language you used.

Granted overall your question was valid, but the way's in which you asked came off rather aggressive. But given the time and information people were given, not knowing the whole picture and grand scheme of things, it is forgivable that they could see it as just a terrain piece.

I should point out however, that under the "New Building Rules" that come with Stronghold Assault, you can play the terrain pieces as just "terrain pieces" that start the game as unclaimed and can be claimed by either side. Whether you use the rules for the neutral terrain (I.e. For an unclaimed Fortress of Redemption) is up to you and your opponent.

[Eberk]

I was also in the corner of asking for point values and I am happy I got an entire book with fortifications. It is exactly what I wanted.

But please let's not go into there again, things have been said and some were indeed not very correct (both corners) but it is in the past.

I just want to be happy with my fortifications book and play lots of sieges ;-) and off course I will also use those WoM models as 'just terrain'

[Black1705f]

I was also in the corner of asking for point values and I am happy I got an entire book with fortifications. It is exactly what I wanted.

But please let's not go into there again, things have been said and some were indeed not very correct (both corners) but it is in the past.

I just want to be happy with my fortifications book and play lots of sieges ;-) and off course I will also use those WoM models as 'just terrain'

I remember the conversation quite well and I remember jumping into it while they were beating up on you. I thought it was a very valid question and didn't understand the response you (we) were getting. I will be more than willing to take responsibility for my actions and freely admit my commentary and language was inflammatory, but I also was called an idiot for even asking a valid question. I noticed looking back a lot of admin editing took place in some of those posts to clean them up and they weren't my posts. I will gladly apologize to anyone who felt singled out or directly offended by my efforts to defend my right to ask a valid question. Of course I do not expect and certainly won't receive any in exchange, because people using the anonymity of the internet do not do that. I'm sure I won't even get a, "I guess I was wrong about that". Too many meaningless debates take place on rules issues for this game that frankly no one really knows the true answer to, but instead personal opinions get passed of as answers. I read these debates and all I can think of is, "Dang that's a good question".

Now back on topic the new book certainly expands the use of "purchasable terrain" I'll call it. The new building rules appear to just be additions and clarifications if I'm not mistaken? The book didn't really discuss combat with and inside buildings like the BRB so I'm assuming those rules are still in use. I'm also curious what these new super secret pieces are going to look like. Void shields are usually powered by Titans or Star ships so they could be pretty big.

[DarkLink]

I knew you'd come around!

We're probably all racist, too , but we don't have a Crash Course in Race Relations thread;).

[Nabterayl]

I have it on extremely good authority that everyone's a little bit racist.

[Mr Mystery]

I expect we'll be seeing the models in the next couple of months.

[Denzark]

We're probably all racist, too , but we don't have a Crash Course in Race Relations thread;).

Thank French connection uk.