Have you seen the Prices!

[Naobi]

Have you seen the prices of metal models at GW? I was looking at the With Hunters HQ's $65 for the inquisitor retinue. $85 for Karamazov! Ridicules!

[Naobi]

Space Marine Codex: $50, Fortress Of Redemption:$165, 40k Rulebook:$96!

[Cryl]

Not really sure what your point is to be honest. We all know this is an expensive hobby and we all accept that, sure it'd be nice if it was cheaper but it's not. If the prices are too high then buy different models and convert, use ebay or worst case don't play at all.

[NealSmith]

A couple years ago the prices were expensive... Now they are getting a little ridiculous...

$58 USD for a LR is a huge jump.

My strategy of buying off eBay and holding may work out. This may actually be a new investment strategy... Buy stuff, don't open it, then sell it a year or so later and make 20%!

[Lord Azaghul]

A couple years ago the prices were expensive... Now they are getting a little ridiculous...

$58 USD for a LR is a huge jump.

My strategy of buying off eBay and holding may work out. This may actually be a new investment strategy... Buy stuff, don't open it, then sell it a year or so later and make 20%!

That's what I do. I just won't pay 'full' retail overprice. Unfornately if you look at a 'model' store gw prices are about in line with them (40-100$ tanks, cars ect)

I think the real tragedy is gw taking advatage of many a yong teenager and young adult with little/ no discpline or restrant, ie rather then saving for their future (or paying all there bills) they spend every last dime on gaming stuff!

I think the biggest thing people need to learn is when to stop buy junk you don't need (espeically when you had a really cool idea!)

[Dosadi]

Welcome to the hobby. You have chosen to participate in a luxury activity. Please note that you are not required by law to participate in this luxury, nor is your survival dependent upon your participation. Most hobbies require the exchange of currency for goods or services. This is not a poor man’s game. Have a nice stay…


Dosadi

[Lord Azaghul]

No disagreement here.

I just thing many a gamer need to learn a little self restraint.

[Col.Gravis]

Welcome to the hobby. You have chosen to participate in a luxury activity. Please note that you are not required by law to participate in this luxury, nor is your survival dependent upon your participation. Most hobbies require the exchange of currency for goods or services. This is not a poor man’s game. Have a nice stay…


Dosadi

Quoted for truth, this is a 'luxury' hobby, no body ever said it was a cheap one.

[DarkLink]

Welcome to the hobby. You have chosen to participate in a luxury activity. Please note that you are not required by law to participate in this luxury, nor is your survival dependent upon your participation. Most hobbies require the exchange of currency for goods or services. This is not a poor man’s game. Have a nice stay…


Dosadi

Bingo.

GW has every right to set their prices however they want to (or however they need to).

We on the other hand, have the right to choose where we spend out money.

[RocketRollRebel]

Space Marine Codex: $50, Fortress Of Redemption:$165, 40k Rulebook:$96!

Rule book is still $57, SM Codex is still $30, Fortress of Redemption is still $99. Not sure where your numbers came from.

Some things have been going up in price for sure but I will argue that GW's plastic kits keep getting better and better and you are still getting a high quality product. I mean look at their new plastics like the Space Wolves Pack kit, and the Space hulk stuff.


Welcome to the hobby. You have chosen to participate in a luxury activity. Please note that you are not required by law to participate in this luxury, nor is your survival dependent upon your participation. Most hobbies require the exchange of currency for goods or services. This is not a poor man’s game. Have a nice stay…


Dosadi

What?!?!Being responsible?!?!? wtfburgerz!?!? haha

[Lord Azaghul]

Rule book is still $57, SM Codex is still $30, Fortress of Redemption is still $99. Not sure where your numbers came from.

Some things have been going up in price for sure but I will argue that GW's plastic kits keep getting better and better and you are still getting a high quality product. I mean look at their new plastics like the Space Wolves Pack kit, and the Space hulk stuff.

I'd guess the AUS dollar...


TO: yes there plastic kits are getting better - then I saw the new demolisher kit- serious lack of detail compared to the old russ - not to mention to 'accesory' sprue.
On the other hand most of the terrain is reasonable priced (execpt the Fortress, any Hill, and the RoB table)

[borginator]

Most third party sites that sell GW boxed sets often offer 20% off GW prices, sometimes more.

I use a host of sites to compare prices and get the best deal. Here's what I frequent:
thewarstore.com
bitzbarn.com -> goto sprue central
bitkingdom.com
maelstromgames.co.uk

Here's an example $57 for the rulebook on GW. On bitkingdom it's $40

[Aldramelech]

Try taking up golf and see how much that costs you! lol

[NealSmith]

I forgot I was talking to people who have probably only been exposed to the GW side of the miniatures hobby. Yes, the other side is getting bad too, but it is much less expensive.

Yes there are plenty of other much more expensive hobbies. I'm not trying to compare apples and oranges here.

Sure GW has the right to set their own prices. I have just as much right to female-dog about it and not buy what they are selling. I think even they are starting to see that the constant price rises are taking a toll since they are now offering their own 10% discount scheme.

[Fizyx]

I think even they are starting to see that the constant price rises are taking a toll since they are now offering their own 10% discount scheme.

Hardly a 10% discount. It will be 9.1% if you buy exactly 150 dollars worth of stuff and use the 15 dollar voucher for a 15 dollar blister, and only goes down if you are not as precise with your purchases. It is not a discount, it is a marketing strategy.

That being said, I don't think GW is overpriced. Expensive? Yes, but not overpriced.

Using totally arbitrary numbers, lets say that that you buy an item from a GW store and they sell it at 100% mark-up (probably lower, but hey) this means a 50 dollar item actually nets the store a 25 dollar profit.

Now, that is at a GW store. In order for GW to make a profit from selling to LGS, they need to sell it to the LGS at a higher price. So the FLGS gets a 25 dollar item for 35 dollars and sells it for the same 50 dollars, this means they will make a smaller profit with a smaller mark-up. Now, in order for LGS to actually sell GW stuff it has to sell it at a reduced price. Now, this means they are cutting their potential profit to increase sales. They give a standard 10% discount, so now they cut their profit even further, from 15 to 10 dollars for a 50 dollar GW product.

Now, lets say GW lowers their prices to match that same discount. GW will not see a significant lapse in profits because they will have taken much of the LGS business, and the LGS can not cover its fixed costs with any lower of a profit margin. What happens? They stop selling GW products.

I'm not saying GW is responsible for keeping these stores in business, but I am saying that GW, by making their prices higher, has made GW products more accessible to FLGS. If GW shut down their retail stores, the prices would increase dramatically. If they lowered their prices, they would lose the business of LGS unless GW cut into their own profits, which not only won't happen, but it shouldn't happen.

This is just one example of why the prices can be high, and only one of many things their financial department takes into account. They maximize profits from in-store sales and third-party retailers.

[Aldramelech]

I forgot I was talking to people who have probably only been exposed to the GW side of the miniatures hobby. Yes, the other side is getting bad too, but it is much less expensive.

Yes there are plenty of other much more expensive hobbies. I'm not trying to compare apples and oranges here.

Sure GW has the right to set their own prices. I have just as much right to female-dog about it and not buy what they are selling. I think even they are starting to see that the constant price rises are taking a toll since they are now offering their own 10% discount scheme.

There are some great plastic sets out there now, and very reasonable too. The Victrix Napoleonic sets are as good as anything GW are doing and at £20 for 60 figures plus flags and rules they are fantastic value. Warlord Games plastic Romans and Celts are competitive and Perry Miniatures plastic Wars of the Roses set is due this month (18 Billmen, 30 Archers +flags per box!) at £15.

So I don't think the Historical side is getting bad, I think things are on the up.

[NealSmith]

Aldramelech - True. I should not have used the term "bad" per se as they aren't terrible. Some of the metal figure ranges are getting "bad"... :)

The historical plastics are interesting. I agree the price is pretty good, but just don't like most of the ones that are available these days. It's also sort of a "Chicken and egg" problem with them. People don't want to invest in them until they get more complete ranges (i.e. Napoleonics particularly) and the manufacturers don't want to spend a ton of money on producing more figures until people really start buying them.

Historicals, in general, are fantastically priced as compared to GW. :)


Another point I wanted to make also. Sure the vehicles are about the same as a plastic model kit, but... How many of those plastic models does one usually "need" to buy? One? How many Rhinos, droppods, Valkyries, etc. would you "need" to buy for some armies?

Anyway, I know this is a "religious war" kind of topic... :)

[Brass Scorpion]

I don't often comment on GW prices on forums because it usually becomes a quagmire of emotion and animosity really quickly. However, the price hikes on metal models in September 2008 and then spring 2009 really pushed the limit of the prices on metal models in an extremely short time-frame. They were already expensive and after two price increases in less than 12 months some of them are simply cost prohibitive. Example, the Space Marine Veterans that went Direct Only were $8 each before Sept. 2008 and they are now $11 US each, making a squad of them enormously costly.

But then, even before these hikes every army had certain units that were just outrageously expensive, hence their rarity in collections and on game tables in any quantity. For Eldar it's Wraithguard, Necrons Immortals and Pariahs, Imperial Guard it's Ogryns, etc. Until those models become more affordable to buy in units they will remain less common in model collections and you won't see a lot of armies built around significant numbers of them.

My Imperial Guard army has one 6-model Ogryn squad built from Ogre Bull conversions. Personally, I'd like to add another Ogryn squad to my army, but as long as they are $20 US each that is not going to happen.

[Gotthammer]

But very few of those manufaturers have to support the number of employees GW has like the staff in stores (and the rent), the writers, artists, designers etc. Not that it necessarily explains all the price differential (metal models - that's a quantity sold issue), but it goes a fair way.

[Lord Azaghul]

Another point I wanted to make also. Sure the vehicles are about the same as a plastic model kit, but... How many of those plastic models does one usually "need" to buy? One? How many Rhinos, droppods, Valkyries, etc. would you "need" to buy for some armies?

Anyway, I know this is a "religious war" kind of topic... :)


Things like the chimera drop pod and rhinos seem like very reasonable prices to me. Even a standard russ tank isn't over the top to me. I think those are more staples of there armies.
Then you look at valks. Shiney new toys - but the guard don't 'need' them. When you jump over to the point cost per $ amount. The old guard box was pretty good. 35$ for 20 lads. But then you look at the SM box. That's alot of money for 5 plastic marines. New guard box 22$ for 10 guys - pretty harsh % increase and no model improvement - but if you play guard you'll 'need' the guys.

One of the biggest qualms I've seem/heard and agree with is 'pricing accourinding to availbity in the army' This is must more true in fantasty, the new skaven kits are very nice, but 58$ for a lords 'mount' (doombell) or the empire great swords 40$ for 1o plastic great swordmen...just because there a special choice? This is in the same breath where gw release 5 coldone knights for 22$ - a good unit size and far cheaper then even human knights who come 8 for 35 (although the break down per model is very comparable). That silly plastic steam tank, just a couple of bucks cheaper then the overpriced metal one! Compare it to that lovely Lizard Stedagdon that had just rolled out and was 44$ Its absolute confusing at times!

I thought 22$ for something (almost all the new kits in the DE army) in the army was a great price point. For me that is the upward limit of an impusle buy. You start hitting 25$+ that pretty much falls into the 'planned' purchases catagory. The higher the price the less likely the impulse buy.

I just don't see the need to raise prices two or three times in a single year, and curtainly not buy 10-15% each time!

[NealSmith]

Fizyx - I'm not sure I'm following your logic. What is your hypothesis first of all? Are you trying to explain why the prices are high? Keep going up? Why there are GW stores?

profit = selling price - cost to produce item

GW maximizes their profit by selling online in their own store (lowest cost). I would argue that the "3rd party" is next (smaller profit/item but they already give the lowest wholesale price to 3rd parties, with not much additional cost - shipping mostly) and third place is the GW store (lots of added cost here).

If the costs are truly going up then I have no problem with the cost of an item going up. I just don't believe that the semi-annual price increases (especially the percentages the they increase...) reflect increases in the cost the actual item.

IMO, they reflect increases in the ancillary costs associated with their business model. I truly believe they'd make more money by shutting down their own stores and investing a little in marketing to players through FLGS, etc. Most people in the world (not the UK) don't live close to a GW store. The two closest to me are approximately 7 hours away each. There are a lot of gamers in our area.

Again this is a "religious war" and I shouldn't have dragged myself into it. :)

[BuFFo]

1) The hobby is actually cheap compared to others like Magic the Gqathering for example. You buy your army once, and never again. Collectible games require you to spend money to keep up with the rules, cards and books.

I spend more on Dungeons and Dragons since starting it back in 86' than I have on 40k since starting it back in 88'. Why? I bought my Dark Eldar once, for example, but I have 4 editions worth of books with my DnD hobby. Magic the gathering? Forget it.... Making a good deck costs hundreds initially, but every few months you need to buy new cards, and dump old cards....

2) If a model is expensive through GW, there are a million online ways of getting models cheap. My favorite? Bartertown.com. Second favorite? eBay. I haven't bought a single GW model at retail since around 2001ish, and I own 17 40k armies, most of which I have bought since 2001.

[RocketRollRebel]

Things like the chimera drop pod and rhinos seem like very reasonable prices to me. Even a standard russ tank isn't over the top to me. I think those are more staples of there armies.
Then you look at valks. Shiney new toys - but the guard don't 'need' them. When you jump over to the point cost per $ amount. The old guard box was pretty good. 35$ for 20 lads. But then you look at the SM box. That's alot of money for 5 plastic marines. New guard box 22$ for 10 guys - pretty harsh % increase and no model improvement - but if you play guard you'll 'need' the guys.

One of the biggest qualms I've seem/heard and agree with is 'pricing accourinding to availbity in the army' This is must more true in fantasty, the new skaven kits are very nice, but 58$ for a lords 'mount' (doombell) or the empire great swords 40$ for 1o plastic great swordmen...just because there a special choice? This is in the same breath where gw release 5 coldone knights for 22$ - a good unit size and far cheaper then even human knights who come 8 for 35 (although the break down per model is very comparable). That silly plastic steam tank, just a couple of bucks cheaper then the overpriced metal one! Compare it to that lovely Lizard Stedagdon that had just rolled out and was 44$ Its absolute confusing at times!

I thought 22$ for something (almost all the new kits in the DE army) in the army was a great price point. For me that is the upward limit of an impusle buy. You start hitting 25$+ that pretty much falls into the 'planned' purchases catagory. The higher the price the less likely the impulse buy.

I just don't see the need to raise prices two or three times in a single year, and curtainly not buy 10-15% each time!


I agree. Certain things seem very reasonably priced (rhinos,drop pods, clan rats, DA bike squads ect) while somethings seem nuts like $50 for a hellhound?!?!

[rkiviman]

Any hobby you choose requires an outlay of cash!! Doesn't matter if its fishing, hunting, reading a great book or in this case buying Gameworks products. It's your choice on where you spend your hard earned dollars. So, be wise about it. Gameworks products have gotten better and better. Their worth the investment and time. If you build models of any other kind you will see their prices are pretty much in-line with similar products. If you buy 1/35th scale armor you're going to pay 60 to 100 US dollars for them. If you buy minatures in the 25 mm range prices can run about the same as Gameworks for much poorer quality mini's. There are alternatives such as E-bay's auctions. So, just be wise and search out where you can buy Gameworks products for the best price that suits your budget. After all hobbies are meant to be enjoyed not to go broke on them. :eek:

[Dark_Templar]

Rule book is still $57, SM Codex is still $30, Fortress of Redemption is still $99. Not sure where your numbers came from.



Please consider there are other nations out there and we are not required to convert everything into US currency for the convenience of others.

OT though, I understand that this is an expensive hobby, and therefore look online for the best prices. Many online stores offer 20% off retail, but for smaller items I will still purchase from GW, as I like to support them directly where possible, and I know their customer service has always been great for me.


Edit: The other option is to proxy minis and use bottlecaps, cigarette butts, used syringes, and other plentiful household items...

[Fizyx]

Fizyx - I'm not sure I'm following your logic. What is your hypothesis first of all? Are you trying to explain why the prices are high? Keep going up? Why there are GW stores?



All I am trying to say is there is a LOT more to maximizing profit than a simple intro to econ supply/demand curve can explain. Obviously GW is trying to maximize profit. If it were not, no one would invest in it. However, maximizing profit does not simply mean overcharging for items. The pricing points are probably closely analyzed to see how all three types of sales (GW online, hobby center and LGS retail, both online and in-store) will be impacted.

Basically people make it sound like GW is this evil company that is trying to make as much money as possible, when in reality they are a company trying to maximize profits like every other for-profit company should be. In the profit maximizing scheme they end up creating hobby centers, which many of us are lucky to be playing at. The main one I play at will probably be open for a very long time because they have an amazing staff that pull in a LOT of business.

I do have some questions about some prices, but I am going to trust that their intentions are not malevolent, but rather based on good business models. Does that make me naive? Maybe, but the less time I spend complaining about prices is more time I spend having fun.

[Melissia]

Have you seen the prices of metal models at GW? I was looking at the With Hunters HQ's $65 for the inquisitor retinue. $85 for Karamazov! Ridicules!

Try paying for an entire army as metal. Assuming you can.

[Commissar Lewis]

2) If a model is expensive through GW, there are a million online ways of getting models cheap. My favorite? Bartertown.com. Second favorite? eBay. I haven't bought a single GW model at retail since around 2001ish, and I own 17 40k armies, most of which I have bought since 2001.

Bartertown? Alright, awesome name. Does Tina Turner run it and/or does it have Thunderdome?

(Mad Max joke)

[RocketRollRebel]

Please consider there are other nations out there and we are not required to convert everything into US currency for the convenience of others.

OT though, I understand that this is an expensive hobby, and therefore look online for the best prices. Many online stores offer 20% off retail, but for smaller items I will still purchase from GW, as I like to support them directly where possible, and I know their customer service has always been great for me.


Edit: The other option is to proxy minis and use bottlecaps, cigarette butts, used syringes, and other plentiful household items...

Yeah my apologies. I am american so by that logic we are the ONLY nation around lol. But no seriously my bad, the thought didn't cross my mind.

[Melissia]

You don't have to change everything into US currency, but at least make it clear which currency you're using. I usually type in USD when referring to the United States Dollar (not the American dollar, there's two countries in America that use Dollar for their currency and they aren't worth the same, so don't say American dollar).

[BuFFo]

Bartertown? Alright, awesome name. Does Tina Turner run it and/or does it have Thunderdome?

(Mad Max joke)

Bartertown has its own set of rules, it takes some getting used to. :eek:

I can regale you with tales of the transactions I have done there, but one that sticks out is when I spent around 50 bucks for 3 dreadnoughts and about 80 marines of various editions and chapters.

Oh, another one was buying 60 old necron warriors, 20 something old immortals, 20something old destroyers, and 20 something old scarabs for about 150 bucks. :D

Oh, another one was a 1250 sisters of battle army for around 70 bucks, which was all sisters on foot, no inquisition, no vehicles, just good old metal sisters on foot.

Oh, another one was when I traded 2250 points worth of Ogre Kingdoms for 3500 points worth of dwarves.

45 various Harlequin models from the 80's for 45 bucks.

Wow.... lol .... I could keep going, but I'll stop or I'll be at this all day! I am sure you get the idea. ;)

[Limey El'Jonson]

Most third party sites that sell GW boxed sets often offer 20% off GW prices, sometimes more.

I use a host of sites to compare prices and get the best deal. Here's what I frequent:
thewarstore.com
bitzbarn.com -> goto sprue central
bitkingdom.com
maelstromgames.co.uk

Here's an example $57 for the rulebook on GW. On bitkingdom it's $40

I wouldn't use Bitkingdom. I paid for a Fortress of Redemption in November, and I still haven't seen it.
The service is flaky at best. He forgets about your orders, doesn't ship them for days on end when he DOES have the product, despite repeated phone calls, emails and chats. When I did get a Fortress from my wife for Christmas, I emailed him AND chatted in GMail with him about swapping my order to a Strongpoint. He hasn't ordered the strongpoint, claims to have the individual pieces to make up the strongpoint (ie two bastions and three defense lines) but STILL hasn't shipped.

It's the last time I'm buying anything from him. :mad:

[therealjohnny5]

That's what I do. I just won't pay 'full' retail overprice. Unfornately if you look at a 'model' store gw prices are about in line with them (40-100$ tanks, cars ect)

I think the real tragedy is gw taking advatage of many a yong teenager and young adult with little/ no discpline or restrant, ie rather then saving for their future (or paying all there bills) they spend every last dime on gaming stuff!

I think the biggest thing people need to learn is when to stop buy junk you don't need (espeically when you had a really cool idea!)

but then self control is something extremely lacking in most people, those involved in such a hobby as ours not withstanding...

[Vorlon]

I have to disagree with the idea that this is an expensive hobby. 40k has a low to moderate initial "buy in" an afterward there is no required upkeep beyond expanding your army when you are ready/able to do so. Here is a comparison to other hobbies ive tried.
1. Paintball $1600 for a gun + High Pressure tank + accessories.....around the same as a reallly nice 40k army....then you factor in $70-100 for a case of paint which will usually last a day or so...play twice a month and you see how fast it adds up.
2. Archery....$300-750 for a riser (the handle thingy) $200-600 for limbs (the springy things) plus a sight/accessories/ $50-200 for a dozen arrows (which break when they hit anything other than a target) + range fees + coaching fees...yah
3.Computer gaming Computer + cost of games + cost of upgrades + subscription fees ect ect ect.

With 40k you are never required to "upgrade" your models....paints are dirt cheap....you can use stand ins or kit bash/convert your own stuff....and there are paper templates for many of the more expensive models out there.

Does GW over charge for some things? Yes...Are they a corporation in a capitalist world whos soul purpose is to make money...Yes

Just my opinion...yours may vary.

[entendre_entendre]

I have to disagree with the idea that this is an expensive hobby. 40k has a low to moderate initial "buy in" an afterward there is no required upkeep beyond expanding your army when you are ready/able to do so. Here is a comparison to other hobbies ive tried.
1. Paintball $1600 for a gun + High Pressure tank + accessories.....around the same as a reallly nice 40k army....then you factor in $70-100 for a case of paint which will usually last a day or so...play twice a month and you see how fast it adds up.
2. Archery....$300-750 for a riser (the handle thingy) $200-600 for limbs (the springy things) plus a sight/accessories/ $50-200 for a dozen arrows (which break when they hit anything other than a target) + range fees + coaching fees...yah
3.Computer gaming Computer + cost of games + cost of upgrades + subscription fees ect ect ect.

With 40k you are never required to "upgrade" your models....paints are dirt cheap....you can use stand ins or kit bash/convert your own stuff....and there are paper templates for many of the more expensive models out there.

Does GW over charge for some things? Yes...Are they a corporation in a capitalist world whos soul purpose is to make money...Yes

Just my opinion...yours may vary.

QFT

hell, the age of cheap video games (~$30/35) is over. now they're going back up to pre-playstation prices ($55-70 CND).

[Sitnam]

hell, the age of cheap video games (~$30/35) is over. now they're going back up to pre-playstation prices ($55-70 CND). Its hardly over IMO, just taking a break. With media such as HD-DVD's and Blu ray, these new media just have to be broken in. Once those media become the prime source for home movie releases (getting out of the DVD era) then I believe the costs to produce games would go back down. Plus, wii games and PC games are still $50 USD for the most part, and that is only for brand new releases. I bought Saints Row 2 and Soul caliber 4 for around forty dollars altogether as used.

[Dreg Warpspawn]

Hi there Naobi!

Yes, some 40K stuff is truly pricey. I am learning a little about discipline because of it. See, I'm the kind of person who can't say 'no' to myself. I've been through at least a dozen full sized fantasy and 40Kaos armies in my time, though admittedly the ones I bought years ago didn't cost so much.

There are things we -must- have, aren't there? Ha ha! I mean, I don't -need- a Forgeworld Keeper of Secrets, but every day I go to their website and oogle her, and sigh despondantly...the pressure will get to me, and I'll get one oneday even though for the price I could buy a GW Keeper of Secrets, 2 Fiends, and 30 Daemonettes...

In the end, I hope you have a close circle of friends to game with. If you only play very competitive or tournament games, there is a heckuva lot more pressure to field the most killer configurations. But friends, ah, they are irreplaceable. I only have 750 pts of Slaaneshi Daemons, but my friends happily play smaller games to fit my army, and use the relative weakness of my army composition to experiment with different army builds they might not have used against a stronger player.

Things are expensive, but I'm having fun. The only reason I whine about cost is I love the products and the game so much:)

May you find peace, and be surrounded by true gamers, true friends:)
Dreg

[ColCorbane]

I've got to say, compared to how much my family and friends spend on fishing, paintballing and banger racing, my hobby is cheap as hell!

Now, if you're going to buy every new thing that GW releases, it's going to get expensive but if you concentrate on one army, once you've got it your ongoing costs for years is going to be next to nothing! It's down to you how much you spend, and if you don't like it, don't buy it.

On the historical side, yes, they are a hell of a lot cheaper, but then none of these companies have to support a wide range of stores around the world in key commerical areas at are empty 80% of the time because the customer base is in school, so obviously the historicals can produce products with a lower cost and still make a profit.

Finally, as a shareholder, I'd wish people would stop basing how much profit GW makes on the cost of a box set. It's far more complicated than that and the truth of the matter is that GW doesn't make massive profits and the people who own it (shareholders like me) get next to nothing if not nothing at all some years.

[david5th]

Welcome to the hobby. You have chosen to participate in a luxury activity. Please note that you are not required by law to participate in this luxury, nor is your survival dependent upon your participation. Most hobbies require the exchange of currency for goods or services. This is not a poor man’s game. Have a nice stay…


Dosadi

Right on the money with that. ( No pun intended. )

[ColCorbane]

From Tom Kirby re Product Pricing ......

Question ....

Greetings, I am a relatively new investor to the GW hobby. Obviously, it does quite
well. I am wondering about the pricing though. I have been to the GW stores, and the pricing seems quite high. Are there plans to raise or lower these prices in the future? I understand that the fan base is the lifeblood of this operation, but this base must not be alienated.

If prices are too high, I fear that many people will become alienated and quit the hobby, and many people will not even join it. Particularly younger children whose parents no doubt fund their Warhammer purchases, considering adult logic i.e.:" All this money for this little piece of metal". Good pricing is necessary for a new fan base.

However, lowering prices too much could very well cause the undesired effects of losing money, despite higher levels of customer happiness. I would not recommend raising the prices much more, the gamers must have faith in Games workshop's commitment to them.

Tell me, what sort of financial overhead does GW have? Are the prices high
due to massive overhead costs? Or just to ensure good profits?

Answer ....

You are right to say that if prices are too high people will be alienated. The fact that we have been recruiting new Hobbyists over many, many years, that we are seeing excellent growth around the world with good retention of hobbyists is pretty conclusive proof that they are not. Making miniatures is not a simple process and so our R&D costs are high - you’ll see plenty of detail on this in our financial report (on this web site). Also, our miniatures are the best in the world and we believe in charging premium prices for our premium products and services.

What we are selling is a hobby – not toys and not a pass-time. Committed gamers and collectors and modellers know they get wonderful value for money from Games Workshop products. Far better value, I suggest, than from similar amounts of money spent on meals out, sports events, boozy nights in the pub. Go to the cinema and you can have an hour and a half of fun. Buy Warhammer and you can enjoy it for the rest of your life! Tom

[BuFFo]

And he is 100% right.

[Lord Azaghul]

QFT

hell, the age of cheap video games (~$30/35) is over. now they're going back up to pre-playstation prices ($55-70 CND).

I don't think I agree with that. Games are still pretty cheap. I remember when NBA Jam came out for the Super Nintendo, back around 1990. The same was 120$ USD, and that's 20 years ago!

[BuFFo]

I don't think I agree with that. Games are still pretty cheap. I remember when NBA Jam came out for the Super Nintendo, back around 1990. The same was 120$ USD, and that's 20 years ago!

I hope you are being sarcastic!

[Lord Azaghul]

I hope you are being sarcastic!

No I'm dead serious. Wal-mart actually had the game price that high when it first game out.
I don't find 40-50$ USD that high for a game...BUT the last game I actually bought was Halo2... I don't really buy video games anymore.

[Mike X]

No I'm dead serious. Wal-mart actually had the game price that high when it first game out.
I don't find 40-50$ USD that high for a game...BUT the last game I actually bought was Halo2... I don't really buy video games anymore.

The prices of video games have been going down since the '80s. They only jump up by about $5 every time a new console unit is released, but then soon after continue to drop down.

I remember $100+ video games for the NES, way back in the day.

Nowadays though, you can get games for $20-$60 (or $70-$100 if it's a collector's edition).

[Idaeus]

I'm from England so use £. The $ pricings seem high to me so I did some maths! 1£=1.6$ earlier there was a complaint about the sm codex being 30$ but in fact in the Uk it costs more 18£=32$. I was surprised as many GW products I have say made in the UK, although codexes are made in China. I know prices are relevant to what else you can buy for the same amount but it was strange to me a UK company has cheaper pricea abroard. Can I ask where you in the US products are made and do GW have a production site there.
A second point that annoys me is the ununiform pricing for similar models. In addition some sets are bad value for money or popular product don't get made in plastic, I just don't understand it.
For example as an SM player when buying a assault squad you get enough parts for 5 jump pack assault marines and also half a non jump pack model. I like bitz but some such as spare chests and arms are useless without legs! Example 2 if they made a plastic dreadnought at 15£/24$ sureley such a iconic model would sell more. Selling 10 at 15£ is better than 2 at 25£.
Sorry about the ranting but I'm almost done. The 2 things that annoy me most are the price of accessories especially paints, I would rather pay more for models than the boring but essential neccessities. Finally kits made into plastic should not cost the same as the metal original (lotr players know what I mean here-see fellbeast).
Do you agree changes should be made to the above and is there any evidence this is happening with new releases? I may write a letter with some friendley suggestions and less ranting to GW. Comments much appreciated, sorry for long post.

[Lord Azaghul]

[QUOTE=Idaeus;50121]

. Finally kits made into plastic should not cost the same as the metal original (lotr players know what I mean here-see fellbeast).
Do you agree changes should be made to the above and is there any evidence this is happening with new releases? [quote]

In fantasy they are starting to charge for PLASTICS the same as metal, and also by what slot it takes in the army. I'm seeing alot of special choices running 41.25USD for 10 plastic figures. That is too much for what you get.

[Muras]

Try taking up golf and see how much that costs you! lol

That's one thing I try to tell people when they try to convince me this is expensive. Try taking up motor boating, skiing, or tons of other hobbies. They are luxury activities as well and this one is far from one of the more expensive ones, though still not one of the cheaper ones either. Price per amount of time I spend on it though cannot be beat.

[Akimbo Lizard]

QFT

hell, the age of cheap video games (~$30/35) is over. now they're going back up to pre-playstation prices ($55-70 CND).

QFE, this is so true, I just bought a game for 60 bucks and now I'm thinking " I could of bought a nice shiny Landraider for that xD

[therealjohnny5]

That's one thing I try to tell people when they try to convince me this is expensive. Try taking up motor boating, skiing, or tons of other hobbies. They are luxury activities as well and this one is far from one of the more expensive ones, though still not one of the cheaper ones either. Price per amount of time I spend on it though cannot be beat.

i agree with you here man, my problem is the poor kids parents. As an adult i can control what and how i buy, but we all know kids. I mean i remember when i started playing WFB back in like 3rd or 4th ed i was a teen but still had no money and how difficult it was to make a coherent army. This is an expensive hobby targeted at youth supposedly but you have to have a job to afford it!

I mean i don't have as much as a lot of people here, but at times i think about the money i sank into this and wonder. :) I've noticed too that a lot of people in this hobby have a, to varying degree, obsessive personality. Admittedly the hobby lends itself to it since we paint and it's competitive gaming all rolled into one. I certainly include myself in this. I've always been an all or nothing kind of guy. and it's interesting how we are drawn so strongly to the collecting and gaming. I never used to consider myself all that competitive but i know my group is pretty intense at times...but then thats part of the fun i guess.

Pricing and investment certainly affects my reasoning when i consider my next army as i'm finishing up my SM army. I don't want to go OD on my next army like i have with marines. and the expense is a large reason fo that. I have to say though honestly i've been moving more and more to buying from other places than the FLGWS because of price. For instance i needed 6 bikes, and 3 attack bikes for my 6th co addition, and of course went with the Ravenwing set bc you save so much at $90USD from the website, but i did some searching and found it on Amazon for $65...uh....hello? AWESOME. i'm almost at the point where i hate to buy anything from the FLGWS directly but it sucks bc i used to manage retail and i know how important sales are and i know and like all those guys there, but can't always rationalize that kind of support...

[Muras]

You could say the same for nearly every other retail store that has an online competitor though. How many of you have a Netflix subscription? Do you still rent from Blockbuster? They're struggling due to that. Amazon has sales greater than any local bookstore and a number of them like Borders are struggling due to the discounted sales. The reason I'm more likely to support my FLGS by paying full retail is that they provide extra service above and beyond just selling me the item. They put time effort and money into good tables and a nice environment that can be really nice when I go into a nice cool store on a hot summer day or vice versa in the winter. When I think about what they do for me, it seems much more worth the extra 20% or so most of the time.

[therealjohnny5]

Perhaps that's part of my hang up. I have only ever played one game in store. I don't paint there either. I'll go in to chat for a bit or pic something up but most of my hobby and gaming time is at my place. So perhaps I don't fully appreciate the environment like I could.