2k Daemon Help wanted!! (3 Lists)

[White Tiger88]

Ok so i can't pick a list.....with Bela'kors new rules there is to much fun to be had! Any suggestions would be great guys. These lists are simply to hard for me to pick from! (Plus i haven't played in a few months!)

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List #1
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Hq 505
===
Bloodthirster 290
Greater Gift x2

Herald of Khorne 85
Lesser Reward, Greater Locus of Fury

Herald of Slaanesh 65
Lesser Reward,Lesser Locus of Grace

Herald of Slaanesh 65
Lesser Reward,Lesser Locus of Grace

Troops-480
=======
20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

15 Demonettes 140
Alluress

15 Bloodletters 155
Bloodreaper


Heavy Support 360
========
Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm

Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm


Allies 653
======

Hq 350
====
Bela'kor, The Darkmaster 350

Troops 133
------
6 Chaos Spacemarines 133
Meltagun,Rhino

Fast Attack 170
------------
Heldrale 170
Baleflamer

1998

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List #2
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Hq 545
===
Bloodthirster 290
Greater Reward x2

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Troops-555
=======
20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

Heavy Support 360
========
Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm

Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm

Allies 540
======

Hq 125
====
Warpsmith 125
Gift of Mutation

Troops 130
------
5 Chaos Spacemarines 130
Plasmagun,Rhino,Dirge Caster

Fast Attack 170
------------
Heldrale 170
Baleflamer


Heavy Support 115
------------
5 Havocs 115
4 Autocannons

=====
List #3
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Hq 605
===
Bela'Kor The Dark Master 350

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Herald of Khorne 85
Lesser Reward, Greater Locus of Fury


Troops-525
=======
20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

15 Bloodletters 155
Bloodreaper

Fast Attack 80
=============
5 Flesh Hounds

Heavy Support 360
========
Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm

Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm

Demons:1490

Allies 430
======

Hq 130
====
Warpsmith 130
Gift of Mutation,Meltabombs

Troops 130
------
5 Chaos Spacemarines 130
Plasmagun,Rhino,Dirge Caster

Fast Attack 170
------------
Heldrale 170
Baleflamer

2000

[Katharon]

I don't like any of them because of the non-fluffiness. That said, do you even need allies? CD are already really strong on their own. Also, if you're doing double FoC, then your allied detachment would also have to be double two; which means +1 HQ & Troop.

[White Tiger88]

I don't like any of them because of the non-fluffiness. That said, do you even need allies? CD are already really strong on their own. Also, if you're doing double FoC, then your allied detachment would also have to be double two; which means +1 HQ & Troop.

non-double force slot.

[Katharon]

#2 then. Larger bodies of troops means longer survival and you can't go wrong with two Soul Grinders.

[chicop76]

If you could tell me what balakor does I can form an opinion. However I think the second list is probably the better one.

3 needs more hounds and khorne works if you deep strike them in.

Also 5 marines seem rather easy to kill off.

Not to mention I favor greater and exalted on my bloodthirster, love riftbringer a lot and the possibility of a free extra attack or strength 8 range weapon.

[chicop76]

Oh if you are taking an alluress in each squad it wouldn't hurt to give them lesser or greater rewards. I know you have heralds. The thought of extra ap 2 weapons is rather good on top of rending. Also it helps in challenging when you don't want your herald to possibly die and your alluress can pick up the slack. Although beguilement helps with that. For example Alluress withap 2 sstrength 4 weapon goes for challenge which cannot be declined and the herald with daemonettes eat away the squad.

I am also a fan of the ws dropping banner and taking a slaanech herald psyker.

[DWest]

Be'lakor is the Exalted Prince of Trolling . . . he doesn't adhere strictly to either CSM or CD rules, but he has the standard Daemon Prince statline, +1 Ld, Eternal Warrior, M3 and knows all of Telepathy. If at least one enemy unit fails Morale during their turn, he gets +d3 warp charge at the beginning of his next turn, and he has a named Greater Etherblade that grants Armour- and Flesh-bane.

In short, he sounds like one of those "too good to be true" kitchen gadgets from the late-night infomercials, but with the possibility to actually pull it off.

[chicop76]

He has shrouding, fearless, eternal warrior, plus 4 invulnerable and a 6 plus save. Yeah is all I got to say.

Reading his online stuff I wouldn't take him as an HQ Daemon choice since he only makes it easier to fear armies which too many armies are immune to fear and it doesn't matter to fear Tau for example since you are mostly ws 5, unless you are facing a ws 3 tau unit.

Anyway he is more of a 2k daemon army choice or a CSM ally choice which I understand why you want to take allies now. Yeah I think I will get this guy. He either have a three plus jink save or a two or three plus cover save if he is in most terrain. I get insibibility on demand, one of the most broken powers in the game, so 4 plus cover saves in the open.

If I used him I would probably have cultists and a hellturkey. However since he cost so much I would probably have a unit of cultist with him. Fateweaver is a no brainer and Loc and a Tzeentch price heavy. That would be 4 MCs though which is arond 1300 points. Nah probably go with LoC, Weaver, and the new guy with cultists. Thinking about it more I think maybe horrors with heralds. Sadly I think 2 horror squads with heralds on this one.

[chicop76]

Be'lakor is the Exalted Prince of Trolling . . . he doesn't adhere strictly to either CSM or CD rules, but he has the standard Daemon Prince statline, +1 Ld, Eternal Warrior, M3 and knows all of Telepathy. If at least one enemy unit fails Morale during their turn, he gets +d3 warp charge at the beginning of his next turn, and he has a named Greater Etherblade that grants Armour- and Flesh-bane.

In short, he sounds like one of those "too good to be true" kitchen gadgets from the late-night infomercials, but with the possibility to actually pull it off.

What is the point of the plus one strength if he has fleshbane, guess it's for the armour bane when he decides to take out vehicles.

[DWest]

I would assume it's for Armourbane, although since he's an MC, he could just Smash and make it 10+2d6, yes?

[chicop76]

I would assume it's for Armourbane, although since he's an MC, he could just Smash and make it 10+2d6, yes?

If he doesn't smash it's 7+2d6 unless he has furious charge. Which would easily take out 12 and under vehicles with on average would pen armour 13 vehicles. Which means you want to smash 14 armour and maybe 13 armour.

[chicop76]

Thinking about it some more he would have a three plus cover save and he can easily give another flying daemon a plus two cover save. Not even mentioning that true names would give this guy a 2 plus save.

It seems like this guy is an extra screw you at space marines since grav weapons do nothing to him.

Like I said before I am thinking if it is worth while to even trying to field him in a Daemon army. He is a good choice for CSM to run with the Mace prince.

G he more I look at him the more I have to look at cultists or CSM. I really don't like giving up my re rolling warp storm rolls, or the chance to roll on the daemon chart for better abilities. His price tag isn't bad once you think about it. The issue However is to him to really fit in a good Fateweaver list you have to take him as an ally, which makes him really 400 points.
I tried the whole alliance thing, but it seems to take away from the daemon list as a whole.

In a mono Tzeentch list I think CSM allies isn't a bad thing. I would love to run with oblits to help with shooting and with a hellturkey. Even in an 1850 game daemons and csm good options is not cheap. For 250 I can field a Tzeentch Herald and Horrors that can pump out 8-48 strength 6 ap 4 shots that can easily be twin linked which is a decent deal. Paying 100-200 points more for one model is a hard sale.

I personally not a fan of the flying circus since some armies can easily deal with it. Relying on 6 models to win a game and can only engage 6 models at a time is not going to win all the time. Sure a Bloodthirster can wreck shop, but in an average game he is likely to kill 4-5 units. When facing Tau, Guard or other armies 4-5 units might not even justify the Bloodthirster cost if it was only 250 points at the end of the game.

As a Tau player Invisibility isn't a big deal and mcs are easily wounded on 5s for the huge bulk of my army and good luck at getting cover saves. Even as a flyer good luck staying in the air with 20 plus units shooting at your flyers. Not saying a prince can't get in my lines. Just saying unless that thrister or black mace prince have a two plus invulnerable save its good as dead. Majority of the time I kill off the true names bearer, so when said thirster or mace prince kill one unit of fire warrors or kroot, I use them as shields to prevent my important stuff from getting assaulted. The following turn you are not flying and out in the open within triple tap range.

Vector strikes doesn't really work since I can shoot you down several times. I do fear hounds and screamers though.

All that being said I can see two mcs in an army or even at max three. The problem with this guy is he really is an akward fit for Daemons. If you are taking him he hurts the weaver trait. All that said I don't see why you need to take a thirster with this guy. A loc would be nice. I am thinking Skarbrand and this guy as a CSM ally. Skarbrand cheap cost off sets the cost of taking this guy. Also if you keep Skarbrand in cover he can easily get plus two cover saves.

[Katharon]

If he doesn't smash it's 7+2d6 unless he has furious charge. Which would easily take out 12 and under vehicles with on average would pen armour 13 vehicles. Which means you want to smash 14 armour and maybe 13 armour.

Seeing as how all but one vehicle (and three IG tanks that are AV11) are AV10 in their rear where you hit, there really shouldn't be any problems with him just using his normal attacks.

[chicop76]

Seeing as how all but one vehicle (and three IG tanks that are AV11) are AV10 in their rear where you hit, there really shouldn't be any problems with him just using his normal attacks.

Landraiders and Monoliths. Other than that he doesn't need to smash.

I was thinking I might use the flaming chariot with this guy since I can give the chariot plus two cover saves.

[White Tiger88]

Um bit off topic here.....

[White Tiger88]

Anyhow looking at this for 2k, seems balanced and rather fun.

Hq 545
===
Bloodthirster 290
Greater Reward x2

Herald of Khorne 85
Lesser Reward, Greater Locus of Fury

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Troops-555
=======
20 Demonettes 195
Alluress,Lesser Reward

20 Demonettes 195
Alluress,Lesser Reward

15 Bloodletters 165
Bloodreaper,Lesser Reward

Heavy Support 360
========
Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm

Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm


Allies
======

Hq 125
====
Warpsmith 125
Gift of Mutation

Troops 130
------
5 Chaos Spacemarines 130
Plasmagun,Rhino,Dirge Caster

Fast Attack 170
------------
Heldrale 170
Baleflamer


Heavy Support 115
------------
5 Havocs 115
4 Autocannons


2000

Or

Hq 605
===
Belakor The Darkmaster 350

Herald of Khorne 85
Lesser Reward, Greater Locus of Fury

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Herald of Slaanesh 85
Lesser Reward,Exaulted Locus of Begilement

Troops-535
=======
20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

20 Demonettes 185
Alluress

15 Bloodletters 165
Bloodreaper

Fast Attack 80
=========
5 Khorne Hounds 80

Heavy Support 360
========
Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm

Soul grinder 180
Nurgle,Pelghm


Allies
======

Hq 120
====
Warpsmith 120
Gift of Mutation

Troops 130
------
5 Chaos Spacemarines 130
Plasmagun,Rhino,Dirge Caster

Fast Attack 170
------------
Heldrale 170
Baleflamer


2000