Infiltration of non-GW models into 40k games

[samomoo]

What's the general consensus among the gaming community here on using non-official/non-GW models in your armies? There are some great looking models out there from other companies, and they would fit naturally in with 40k. However, since they are technically non-canon and not GW-issue, they...well, they're not GW. How do you feel about using these models?

Now, I'm not talking about integrating that other games rules along with their models. I'm just talking about using different models with GW rules.

[Haighus]

As far as I'm concerned, it is absolutely fine as long as it is obvious what they are meant to represent (this man is a guardsman for example) and their equipment is WYSIWYG. Generally that means I would say their guns have to be GW, although there are some 3rd party bits that look similar enough (and are usually intended to be versions of GW weapons) that are fine. That is how I see it anyway.

[Katharon]

As long as everything is WYSIWYG and not a model made to take advantage of smaller size, then yeah its fine in my book.

[daboarder]

All my zombies are mantic ones, they are cheaper, better sized, and look fantastic in a horde.

but then I do my gamin in GG

[Joe TwoCrows]

My mate who loves his sq...err, The Emperor's Finest Heavy Gravity Astartes, and has converted an insane number of WFB Dwarves to have flamers, bolters and more flamers, uses Warmarchine Warjacks as his dreads. The scale is a shade better, given the slightly shorter stature of the models, the weapons are in line, and the squ, err, racial fluff makes the 'jack fit right in. He adds a little conversion work, e.g. pasting Aquila's to the torso, so in the end, it's a Barren-pattern dread.

Moral; he makes it work.

[Maelstorm]

Would love to see photos of the Warjack Conversions!

[Houghten]

I've always been fine with it. You just can't use 'em in a GW store.

[White Tiger88]

I've always been fine with it. You just can't use 'em in a GW store.

Depends how well they are hidden in the army >:D

[SaveModifier]

As long as its obvious what they are and they're not going it to game the system, then its fine, lots of companies make some great stuff

[Wolfshade]

Rule of cool I think always works. Though obviously if you are going to be playing in tournaments then it is all down to the TOs rules.

I have once seen a redshirt pull a skeleton out of a middle of large unit as being non-GW. They have keen eyes! (This was in a GW store btw)

[chicop76]

It is noticable. I found myself picking out non gw models in an apoc game before. The old red shirt didn't care at the gw store. Anyway since gw don't make female guard other companies have female guard, etc. I personally don't have a n problem with it. If it is a tournament it should be Wysiwyg and look like it fit with 40k.

I do convert from other companies like Warmachine, but that's due to it being easy to bit order from them, so I do have a few heads and wings from hordes/ Warmachine

[eldargal]

It adds variety and anything that results in more variety in the hobby is good.

[Skullchewer]

I play Orks. Obviously there is a lot of room for customization with Orks, and I buy a lot of third party products (Kromlech, Spellcrow, Maxmimi etc). I always keep the model as close as possible to the same dimensions (For example I will likely be making my own Stompa, as I hate the GW model, but will be using it as a guide for height, width etc), and make it clearly Orky. I've never had any complaints.
Unfortunately my army is not considered eligible for tournaments at my local gaming club, as they insist on at least 75% GW models.
A lot of my standard boyz are modded with third party arms or heads. So no Orks at the tournament, sadly.

I've heard a story, the veracity of which I am a little dubious about, of an Ork player being turned away from a tournament because his army was fitted out with all Necron weaponry. His opponent complained and the ruling was that his army was illegal due to nobody but Necrons being able to use the weapons. Apart from discounting the whole Ork psyk fluff; who cares? If they're clearly Orks holding weapons that are comparable to the Ork counterpart then what does it matter?

I'm starting a Dark Eldar army, and because sometimes I do get the urge to enter tournaments, I'll be restricting any modifications to GW models. For example the Reaper will have grisly trophies, but rather than use third party bits I will be using Vampire Counts Corpse Cart bits.

It's a shame, and a far cry from the late eighties, early nineties where making use of non GW products was actively encouraged. The hobbyist aspect of the game has been squashed out by GW over the years. I hope with the next Ork codex they don't fill all the gaps, it's nice having to improvise (For me at least), although my Wazdakka is totally illegal by tournament standards ;)

[Arkhan Land]

I recently painted up two of the larger demons that reaper makes in the bones series and they fit right in. One example was "Agramon pit fiend" fit right in as a demon prince I mad him some warp forge armour using plate pieces from the FW renegade etched brass pack, gave him a 60mm base, and hes off!

[Sly]

As long as everything is WYSIWYG and not a model made to take advantage of smaller size, then yeah its fine in my book.

Same here. Especially for Chaos, weapons and models are so varied in appearance that I don't see a problem as long as it's not designed to take advantage of a larger or smaller base size or footprint, or a different overall size. So if you do use any outside sources for minis, you should try to be as faithful to the target model's size as possible.

[The Imperial Fist]

I use pig-iron helmets on my scouts, and some maxmimi terminator shoulder pads, but thats about it. The funny thing is I got both those ideas from GW as they featured models with those conversions on their daily picture feature.

[Grulgor]

They have no one but themselves to blame for third party armies becoming more common, killing the official tournament system should have removed any requirements at all with regard to using GW only. I can't comprehend stores that still enforce a GW only or any % GW rule, so long as it's clear what the model is meant to be then I'd play against almost anything.

[Lord Tothe]

Hell, I'm poor. Proxy whatever you want with whatever you want as long as we're both clear on what's what. Glue some el-cheapo plastic army men to 25mm bases for your army for all I care. Playing the game in a casual setting shouldn't require hundreds of dollars. Unless it's a GW event with GW regs, of course.

[sergentzimm]

Already planning on adding some Deadzone models to my ork army. Hell that is one of the main reason I kickstarted it.

[DocSavage]

I'm still too new to the hobby to venture into that "deep end" of the pool. So far everything has been GW. That said, I'm getting far enough along to appreciate what others have done with proxies and customization. One day, one day...

[Peter Mcbride]

I use other models mixed in with GW, to keep the army from looking too boring ( i play orks, so the more ramshackle diversity the better), but i dont play them in GW as they frown on it. ( they dont want to be advertising someone elses products in their store, which i can respect)

[Muninwing]

Personally, since when I started the GW tourneys near me required a certain percentage of a model be GW parts, I've just gotten into that pattern of thinking. Thus, conversions using WHFB models are great, parts from other models are fine, but entire models feel off.

Then again, I might play a bit of Chaos with WWX Enlightened Hired Hands as cultists, and I nearly got in the Raging Heroes kickstarter to fill out my Vistroyans with kicjass ladies, but by and large I plan my force with conversions of GW models.

[Ezaviel]

I don't have any non-GW models in my armies. Though I have been considering using some Mantic models in my undead army, and have been looking at adding some Victoria miniatures to my Imperial Guard.

I am fine with opponents using non-GW models so long as it is clear what they are and what they are equipped with.

[Skullchewer]

So far 10 have voted against, but not stated why they are against it. I'm curious as to why people would have a problem with it.

[Renegade]

Parts are fine, not so keen on whole models being swapped out. Very rarely are the profiles of the swapped out model similar, there is an advantage and possibly a disadvantage in that, either way it can become a distraction.

The only army I would consider having a good excuse to do this with is Orks, no real excuse for any other army unless going heavily themed and it still has all the details to make it look what is being play look like what is being played.

[Rissan4ever]

As long as it looks cool and I can tell what it's supposed to be, I couldn't care less where the model came from. Variety is good.

[gory_v]

So long as I have an army list in hand and explanations regarding what certain models represent, I'm good. I proxy quite a bit in casual games and I think it should be allowed in tourneys so long as a case can't be made for modeling for advantage. If the non-GW model is smaller than it would normally be, then no, unless you can get a judge to make the ruling that it is given a certain amount of leeway in regards to being targeted. If it's any bigger than I say the player does so at their own disadvantage. I'd be willing to discuss cover and LoS beforehand, but I doubt everyone would be as forgiving.

Regarding weapons, I'm good so long as there's consistency though some effort should be made to differentiate between models wielding the same guns physically that actually represent 2 different weapons within the list.

I'm currently running 3 grav guns in a biker command squad but they're represented by combi-gravs. (From the new tac and stern boxes, actual gravs are on the stern.) I make it clear from the start and it has been fine thus far.

[Gabus]

I voted yes, but that is really only a personal development over the last few years. I got into wargaming in the late eighties, through GW. They installed that chip in my brain that I could only use GW models, and it only recently burned out.

That said, I still cant bring myself to mix models within an army. So, while my fantasy orcs, tomb kings, and empire, and chaos are all 100% GW, i kicked for a Mantic Elf army that I use for both Kings of War, and WFB High Elves. That army is 100% Mantic. So I will use other companies models, but not within an army.

[Grazhnakk]

Our community and hobby is kinda far up the nether regions of GW if we're so uptight over which models go in which army. Look to the wider wargaming hobby (that GW grew out of) and you'll find dozens of manufacturers of historical, fantasy, and sci-fi models. Want to build some armies to replicate Waterloo? You have a plethora of suppliers to work with. This is healthy, and provides a competitive situation that means a single supplier no longer has a monopoly on the hobby.

This is better for the hobby as a whole, even if it's not quite as awesome for the monopole.

[YorkNecromancer]

Cadian heads are second only to Nagash in their ugliness. Stupid, ugly helmets and disproportionately large baby heads. Ugh.

Pig-Iron Miniatures heads all the way.

Also, as a hardcore modeller/painter, why would I deny myself a massive section of the art, just to be precious about some brand I feel little to no actual loyalty towards? If a GW idea is better represented by another company's model (i.e. Khador Sorsha as a Commissar Lord), why bother with GW's stuff?

All that matters is that my army looks good, and unified together, and not a hideous mish-mash of jarringly contrasting aesthetics.

[ersatzgnomes]

I don't so much mind if bits and stuff from other manufacturers are involved, but whole outright figs is just obnoxious, as I like to be able to look across the table, and have a pretty good idea of what something is without having to ask about it.

[Anggul]

Cadian heads are second only to Nagash in their ugliness. Stupid, ugly helmets and disproportionately large baby heads. Ugh.

Whoa whoa whoa, those helmets are Starship Troopers helmets.

I'll agree on the proportions though. I also find it silly that all Cadians and Space Marine Scouts look exactly the same.

[m3g4tr0n]

Never had an issue with it. If it's WYSIWYG, then all is kosher.

[Eljonson]

For WFB yes
( cheaper, and better looking zombies )

For 40k No
( GW just rocks out the goodness)

[Haighus]

I don't so much mind if bits and stuff from other manufacturers are involved, but whole outright figs is just obnoxious, as I like to be able to look across the table, and have a pretty good idea of what something is without having to ask about it.
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/penal-guard-10-man-resin-squad
So how would you feel about these? They have weapons that are easily identifiable as lasguns, and also look the part for a unit that actually doesnt have a GW kit.

[Psychosplodge]

I think bitz and full models are two seperate issues.
I don't like the idea of full models for scale, base size whatever reasons. but 3rd party heads or whatever *shrugs*

[DarkHorseSki]

The GW store near me employs the 75% rule. 75% of the total army had better be GW. I pretty much use that as a guide, but I do use other models to modify my figs. If SCULPTING your own is totally legit, then using parts from other modellers who have the skills to do what I wish to do, should be just as legit. Head swaps, great coats, weapon swaps, vehicles... IF I use a figure that is not GW, I try to GW it up with parts and pieces so that it isn't obvious. I also happen to have several pieces of prototypes that did not make it into the GW inventory, including one of the original Trygon models (which closely matches the epic model upon which it was based.) My prototype Malefactor actually looks BETTER than the kit model that eventually came out. My mycetic spores are made from plasma bug model kits from the Starship troopers game and they look GREAT. There are plenty of greater deamon models that fit perfectly into the game and come from other sculptors.

[Chiefarmorer]

If it looks cool and is easily identifiable, I am all for it. I use a variety of companies for mods (heads, bodies etc.) and some models straight out. No one has complained at a tournament yet, though I do most of my playing in the basement.

[-Prime-]

I am fine with non-GW models as long as they are easily identifiable as what they are meant to represent.

[jakeraven]

honestly i think is cool to have non gw models in your army if it fits the theme and rules of your army (WYSIWYG of course) i think these other companies that make models that fit into 40k or fantasy help GW make better models themselves...my 2 cents anyways

[sfshilo]

Depends on the quality. If it stinks then I have issues. If its well thought out, then game on.

[Rissan4ever]

Depends on the quality. If it Sufis then I have issues. If its well thought out then game on.

Sufis? As opposed to Shiites?

[Aspire to Glory]

Whoa whoa whoa, those helmets are Starship Troopers helmets.

I'll agree on the proportions though. I also find it silly that all Cadians and Space Marine Scouts look exactly the same.

I use catachan heads on my imperial fists scouts, as in my opinion the scout heads are a bit... Down's syndrome'y...

[Griffotronmachi]

If they look cool and fit your armies aesthetic, go for broke! it's your money and your hobby and should be able to play the game and represent the units in your army however you see fit. So long as your opponent doesn't feel cheated and can clearly differentiate between units and their function then it shouldn't be a problem. If you're at a GW run tournament however, show some respect and use the models they produce. It'll save you a headache and waste no ones time.

[Proiteus]

I originally used several non-gw parts for my Pre-heresy Thousand Sons terminators plus a scibor model for Magnus (seen in the attachment) but at the time I had more options for tournaments as Maelstrom Games was still going strong and there was no end of tournaments that weren't fussed about manufacturer, but as we all know Maelstrom Games shut down.

So I decided to try using these terminators at a small store v store tournament at Warhammer world, within 10 minutes of getting the models out I was asked "do you have any alternative models?" I said no and asked if it would be okay to use them this once? They refused and told me to remove them and got me some Black Reach terminators to acts as poor proxies for my Grey Knight terminators for the rest of the day, this strictness I didn't expect I thought given how small the event was I be allowed to use them just once; clearly not!

Since that day I've used purely GW models and parts with a few rogue trader parts here and there due to the fact nearly all events I attend are GW and I see no point in having a model I can only use at my gaming club.

[Daredevil]

I have some non GW miniatures. In my opinion they suffer in comparison so bits, go ahead. Models? No thank you. What is entirely worse is the number of people at my club who will shamelessly play models without arms or heads week in week out. Show some pride for your hobby.

[The Imperial Fist]

I use catachan heads on my imperial fists scouts, as in my opinion the scout heads are a bit... Down's syndrome'y...
Amen to that....

[A.j. Heiskell]

I use GW standard Orks, except when I want to add cybernetic parts to them (being a Big Mek led army). For variety's sake, I step outside the bounds for cybork parts.

[Orange]

I have no issue with someone or myself using models from companies that are not Games Workshop to represent figures and vice-versa as long as the model is clearly within the defined proportions and can be recognized as such (ie: your demon is not a Broadside). I think it creates a level of diversity, which Games Workshop is clearly trying to get across by allowing players access to the strongest models in each army with the new Formations, where players will have mixed bags and allow them to expand and enter armies by seamlessly transitioning from one to the other.

I could add the new Stormwing Formation to my existing Farsight Enclaves army right now to help my Tau get over the AV 13/14 bump and then if I ever decide I want to play Space Marines I can add the Formation to my new army and I would already have ~500 points of models readily available to me to start playing with and even could use my Tau and their Firesupport Cadre Formation so I could have two armies just by adding an HQ and two-four Troop choices. As much as I see this as a great way for Games Workshop to make money, I also see it as a way for players to be able to inexpensively add models to their collection and field two or three armies for mid-sized/standard sized games very quickly.

And with that being said, by having models that can play as different miniatures to keep with the "fluff" of an army if that is what you are interested in then find something that will allow you to do so. I mean after all, it is a game/hobby and you're supposed to have fun with it and the only people who should care are the staff at Games Workshops whose only interest is putting their own models into their display cases at the stores.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

after seeing how the ard boyz tournamnt went with players having unpainted unassembled armies Gw can sit on it and rotate. i use what i want when i want and if they have a problem with that then on well. if i do not attend or play in their events do you honestly think that hurts my feelings? any tournament i have gone to is all held by locals and gaming groups. not a bunch of red shirts. heck i remember i think i said dammit in the baltimore battle bunker once... got a lecture and told him where to shove it and left with out spending a dime. its this crap that makes GW a bunch or twits.

I have bits from scibor from and a ton of other designers is it my fault gw doesn't release a quality product or half the product line for some armies.... No it is not if i choose to buy conversion parts then you can choose to play me or choose not to just like i can choose to tell the store you refused to play me because you didn't like my kromleck ork nobs or because you didnt like my chapter house conversion for the stormraven. heck for christmas i expect to have carapace vets from dreamforge... if you don't want to play that's not my problem honestly. does that make me a jerk probably do i care not at all. 3rd party miniatures fill in gaps they fill in armies in creative ways. i am sorry but i do not want to look across the table and kill nothing but cadians.... GW if you don't like it find some one who cares because i dont :)

[generalchaos34]

My belief has always been "if they won't make the model, why should i be penalized for converting?" I recently got a Harlan Versh from War Machines because its an awesome model that says "Hi. Im an Inquisitor" and the fact that theres only 3 currently produced models for an HQ that literally has thousands of ways to gear and no models for any of the gear? That said, most of my non GW stuff is mostly bits, but its mostly because its stuff that they simply won't make (like easy to get carapace armor) or stuff that simply does not exist (like half of the original DE line and most of the tyranid stuff!) Ive used non GW helmets and rifles for my Vespid/ Boba Fett Auxiliaries conversion, i have tons of maxi mini melta guns, roman "skirts" and head crests for my Ultras, and i use a mantic forge father canon for my Thunderfire because $50 for a tiny mini is too much. I plan on using Victoria miniatures to make a lovely cold one or motorcycle Praetorian rough riders, because current rough riders are lame and extremely overpriced.

[ChacoStylez]

I for one hunger for diversity. I can't wait for my Toughest Girls in the Galaxy Jailbirds to come in to add them to some Catachans.

The women of the 41st millennium need to be given some spotlight, Lt. Mira from Space Marine comes to mind. If GW or FW doesn't want to represent some kicks *** women, then I have to look elsewhere, what's a hobbyist to do, convert wyches?

[Ursa]

Fight the Power!

If you can make the model WYSIWYG and there is no question what the model is and the size is similar GO FOR IT!

I use quite a few Reaper minis for my Dwarves because their characters are much cooler and they have female dwarves.

For 40k I have NO problem with people using non GW models but they must be similar in size and have to be sci ti. No Mr Potato Head stompas please.

[Katharon]

No Mr Potato Head stompas please.

Some of the best Ork Stompas I've seen are modeled on the Mr. Potato Head toy. Why do you not like it? If its well done, the conversion looks downright BAMF.

[knas ser]

So long as it's not confusing during play and it's roughly the right size, by all means proxy what you like. It's a very expensive hobby. If you're not using official models, that's GW's problem, not mine. ;)

EDIT: That said, I voted 'no' in the poll above because it seems to be phrased as to whether I will use proxy models, rather than whether I care if my opponent does.

[knas ser]

So far 10 have voted against, but not stated why they are against it. I'm curious as to why people would have a problem with it.

The poll says would you use non-GW minis in your army, not whether you'd have a problem with someone else doing it. Most likely that.

[Sainhann]

I use 1/35th scale M2 Bradley's for my Chimeras and use a different 1/35th scale vehicle for the Cmd section.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Unfortunately my army is not considered eligible for tournaments at my local gaming club, as they insist on at least 75% GW models.

This I think is total BS. I have no issues with GW (or PP or anyone else) insisting that the tournies they fund use only their stuff or scratch built as in sculpted yourself. But a persentage. It should be either GW only or open slather...

[Lord-Boofhead]

I plan on using Victoria miniatures to make a lovely cold one or motorcycle Praetorian rough riders, because current rough riders are lame and extremely overpriced.

Has she got the legs and lances back up on the site?

[Katharon]

If you're looking to field a lot of Rough Riders, then I would point you towards the Perry Twins. (http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?products_id=2397) That first link or a horde of their Napoleonic cavalry models would look awesome. In fact, once I get around to saving money for it, I plan to make three squads of Rough Riders from Perry's models.

[Lord-Boofhead]

I'll have a look, its more I was looking for legs that fitted in with the rest of my Savlar Chemdogs army...

[Lexington]

My Ork army's vehicles are made up exclusively from Tamiya and Italeri 1/35th scale models - cheaper and more detailed than GW's offerings, and they give it a distinct appearance. So, yes. Definitely.

[The Sovereign]

All of my stuff is strictly GW, because I have severe hobby OCD. That said, I don't mind or blame others for accenting their armies with non-GW stuff.

[Blackcloud6]

I've never liked the use of WWII or current day armor kits in WH40K. They look like, well, modified WWII armor kits and just don't seem to fit in.

[Katharon]

I've never liked the use of WWII or current day armor kits in WH40K. They look like, well, modified WWII armor kits and just don't seem to fit in.

Have you ever taken a look at the Valhallans, Death Korp of Krieg (WWI), Armageddon Steel Legion, or Harakoni Warhawks? WWII models fit quite nicely into the other models so long as they are 28-30mm in size and are equipped with either GW-lasguns or well modified green stuff analogs.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

picking up some of dream forges troops hopefully for christmas they will become my veteran guardsmen with carapace. honestly i do not feel sorry for GW on this one. You don't make models for actual models let alone upgrades and weapons it's only fair that if someone else picks up the slack then so be it. i know i will have no problems using them to represent carapace.

[Morachi]

Part of the buzz for me is seeing new models (non-GW), keeps the spice in the hobby :)

Plus, i'd be a massive hypocrite not allowing them on the table given just how many i've accumulated from various sources over the years. My hat goes off to the Russians though, my god they know how to sculpt sensational miniatures - often with more detail than GW can muster (all in their spare time!). Example below;

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