Stormtroopers! When? Where? Why? and How?

[bonedale]

It seems widely understood that STs are expensive, lackluster, and not to mention, in competition for a position on the roster with PBS.... BUT does anyone use them? and use them well?

I'm trying to purge myself of super humans in my IG list, so with GKs leaving, I am thinking of STs in Vendettas to balance with Vets in Chims. The Vets can plow forward taking on main offensive operations, and the Vendettas can move in later (after popping armor duties) strategically drop these fragile expensive suckers in positions to take advantage of their AP3 abilities. I see putting them in places where the Vets got too close to MEQs, etc.

I like the idea of STs, like the looks of them, and even hope for plastic some day. But I can never seem to commit the points to them. Keep in mind, this post is trying to find a way to use STs well for a characterful addition to my force.

[Faultie]

The points are tough to justify, but if you just accept you're going to blow a lot of points on them, they're pretty useful. Worth 16pts a piece? Probably not, but I get good mileage out of them, particularly against MEQ armies, where the AP3 isn't wasted.

I run a few minimum units to max out the special weapons, and do enjoy re-rollable deepstriking with either Meltas or Flamers. Still, I think that Stormtroopers are too situational and tough to field such that they are worth the opportunity cost paid.

They are cool looking, and very cinematic, though!

[BuFFo]

... this post is trying to find a way to use STs well ...

There is only one way to use Storm Troopers well from what I have personally seen.

Stick them in a Valk/Vendetta or Chimera, fly/drive over to a non-Necron, non-Plague Marine MEQ unit, drop them next to it, and hopefully be able to wound them with your strength 3 shots.

Or just straight Deep Strike them. Either way, remember, your Storm Troopers are a weak glass cannon at best. They are like Vespids... They may or may not do their job, but they will must assuredly die fast.

Anything else, Veterans can do at a much cheaper cost.

[MVBrandt]

100 points for 10 vets w/ 3 meltaguns
105 points for 5 storm troopers w/ 2 meltaguns and 3 hellguns

If you're doing a melta+heavy flamer chimera spam army, there's actually some legitimacy to "bulking up" with suicide stormtrooper chimera vet squads. They can outflank in their chimeras if ever required, and even if you don't do that, you can use the stormtrooper chimeras to screen your scoring veteran chimeras. If they don't get ganked, they're really point and shoot units. Whereas in objective missions you can't just suicide the vets at things helterskelter, you can do just that with the stormtroopers, chucking that chimera 12" forward on turn 2, spinning and hopping out, and meltagunning a land raider or something w/ the stormies. Who cares if the 5 of them get ganked thereafter? Plus, you've got another chimera even if they do get ganked, which is a useful heavy flamer/multilaser combo anytime you take it.

[Droofus]

I use two squad of 5 with meltas in my infantry horde list. It's bland and a bit unoriginal, but they are very reliable for a deepstriking suicide unit. A little while ago they dropped in on the same turn and each squad exploded a defiler. Tore the heart out of my opponents shooting and were well worth the points expenditure.

They've also been able to dismount nobz and terminators before they reach my lines, which is a major bonus.

Also, it's worth remembering that you have to declare their mission before the battle, not at the time of army list creation. If you suspect Mystics, then you can change them to "Behind Enemy Lines" and outflank them instead. Useful!

[Lord Azaghul]

Outflanking in a chimera…but since I min-squad these guys its hard to justify a chimera for 5 lads.
The DS option works, ok, but I feel like I’m dropping SM without the DP.

[bonedale]

What are the best ways to improve their shooting phase? S3 makes it hard to get any benefit from AP3 in any size squad. Like any unit in IG they can benefit from weaken resolve on their target unit, but is there a way to get them re-roll to hit?

[Lord Azaghul]

What are the best ways to improve their shooting phase? S3 makes it hard to get any benefit from AP3 in any size squad. Like any unit in IG they can benefit from weaken resolve on their target unit, but is there a way to get them re-roll to hit?

Sorry nope. GW FAQ'd hotshot lasguns are not lasguns, so orders don't work.
I think the only really use for them is the apoc valk/St data sheet, but you end up paying even more points for the special benefit of shoot, run and shooting again.

I've got 20 of these metal lads and I would like to find an effective and reliable use for them in my army...still trying.

[MVBrandt]

Lord A, while you can't first rank second rank the hotshots, you certainly can twin-link them against monsters and vehicles ... not super useful, except against things like fexes and demon princes and other base 3+ armor saving types.

Still, I think it's best to think of them as carapace armored vets with 2 meltaguns for relatively cheap, and another way to get a chimera into your lists. As some have mentioned, you can always deep strike them and leave the chimeras as "shields" for your other units, outflank them in their chimeras, etc.

[Melissia]

Most people that use them tend to do so as a cheap deep striking unit to hit the rear armor of the most valuable vehicle the enemy has. Personally I wouldn't.

And let's not even get started on ISTs.

[Lord Azaghul]

[QUOTE=MVBrandt;38810]Lord A, while you can't first rank second rank the hotshots, you certainly can twin-link them against monsters and vehicles ... not super useful, except against things like fexes and demon princes and other base 3+ armor saving types.

[QUOTE]

I left that option out on purpose because most game if you're using there speical abilities they are out of range of orders anyhow, besides not many AV 9 vehicles out there!;)

[MVBrandt]

I was more referring to monsters.

I don't think it's their orders that really make them *all* that valuable, other than fluff and the occasional deep strike or outflank to nail that key target. It's the capacity to get yet more relatively cheap melta+chimera onto the board.

[Lord Azaghul]

I was more referring to monsters.

I don't think it's their orders that really make them *all* that valuable, other than fluff and the occasional deep strike or outflank to nail that key target. It's the capacity to get yet more relatively cheap melta+chimera onto the board.

Which is unforutatly where ST fail. Vets are the better buy...now if ST could take 3 speacial weapons...

[MVBrandt]

Now what if you already are fielding 6 melta chimera vet squads, and just happen to want close to 3 more ... :)
Basically, ST are for the spammer in us all.

[BuFFo]

Now what if you already are fielding 6 melta chimera vet squads, and just happen to want close to 3 more ... :)
Basically, ST are for the spammer in us all.

Massively agreed :D

[mrphatman]

what i normaly do is put a whole squad with a prmis pyker in a vendeta,deep strike them against space marines ( cause thats all i play against:mad:) close anouf to rapid fire and have the pyker protect them with the shroud, i killed about 7 marines one time, while the vendeta takes care of any tanks on the board,but i can see the usefullness of haveing meltas in them(never occured to me to use them:p)always thoat that the more hell guns the more ap 3 stots i'd get,my suggestion is to only ever use them against meq lists and have a primis pyker to protect them. any other time would be a waste of points, hope that was helpfull:cool:

[Just_Me]

What are the best ways to improve their shooting phase? S3 makes it hard to get any benefit from AP3 in any size squad. Like any unit in IG they can benefit from weaken resolve on their target unit, but is there a way to get them re-roll to hit?

You can actually, Forge World's Long Range Ground Scanner. While it's not super reliable, it is cool and has the bonus of being something you don't see every day.

[Old_Paladin]

Stormtroopers are just one of those units that make you wonder why they bothered with them.
You hate to upgrade their guns because, lets face it, you're already paying 5 points for the hot-shot pack. I actually think Inquisitorial Stromtroops are better (well, not witchhunter ones; sisters are better).

In fact, they are only useful against one army, in my mind. Tau!
They have enough expensive, but small, elite units that Stormies might actually do something. Stealth suits? T3 3+ save; a unit of 10 non-upgraded stormies will do ~7-8 wounds in rapidfire range. Even Crisis suits, you can get in about 4 wounds and kill two (or just that Monat commander).

[Melissia]

WH and DH ISTs are pretty much the same save for a few things the sergeant can equip... ISTs are just plain bad for the most part.

[bonedale]

I think the Hot Shot Lasgun has its place obviously, but I do agree it's not something you want to replace with meltas. Maybe one unit of STs can sit behind a few Vet squads ready to shoot up a MEQ unit getting too close.

But again, I would rather have a PBS sitting back doing the same support roll.

The Hot Shot Lasgun needs to be assault 3, 18". Then I would take them.

[DarkLink]

WH and DH ISTs are pretty much the same save for a few things the sergeant can equip... ISTs are just plain bad for the most part.

Yeah... everything IST's do, Sisters of Battle do better. The only real use I can think of for IST's is suicide melta squads, and I haven't had much luck with those so far (it may have to do with the fact that my Sister's Eviscerators have killed more vehicles than all the meltaguns in my army combined:(, rendering suicide melta squads useless for me).

[Majorcrash]

dont feel bad, they arnt that useful in IG armies either. Yea sure they land shoot up a SM squad kill one then become a speed bump as the SM's move on to the rest of your army.:D

[Xas]

I like ST and use them to good effect.

What you have to realize when useing them is to NOT do the n00b mistake of thinking "do they make their points back?". this nonsens question is only half viable for frontline combat units but ST are specialisits.

you use them as a scalpell to strike where you need them and when you need them.

my most liked unit is as follows: 250pts, chimaera with hull heavy bolter and turret heavy flamer. 10 ST, power weapon, 2 meltaguns.
depending on what they do they either choose infiltrate+pinning or scout and move trough cover. first is used for outflanking with the chimaera and second if they deploy normally and use the scout.

if you factor in the 4+ armor and the special mission (roughly equal to a veteran skill so 30points) it is only another 30 points for the ap3 AND cc&pistol. you do loose 1 special weapon, the heavy weapon and scoring status but you hardly ever should end up intact on an uncontested objective either.


tactic a)
outflanking and establishing a perimeter. usually they are accompanied by either penal legion and sentinels (AC&HK) or some troops in a vendetta/valkyrie (which basically outflanks, trows them out and then goes its own way, killing tanks). the bs4 meltaguns in the chim cause preassure and play heoes while the troops support and stay behind so they can claim the objective if the detachment suceeds. an astropath is vital here so you get most of them at the same side (so 2 troops for the 1 ST is a very good idea).

tactic b)
scout with your chimaera in a good position. this works well in jonjunction with 2+ flying transports which also carry hard hitting infantry (melta vets, straken, rending penals). the 12" move of the chimaera can get you in a very good starting position to use your 2 meltas from the hatch. if something turns up that must be destroyed you have a good chance to be able to deal with it. usually your oponent will only see just another chim but with only 2 meltas instead of 3. especially deamon princes (not tzeentch) and assoult squads have learned to fear my ST. with a bit of luck you can deal 2 wounds to the prince or even kill him (add in some multilasers/atocanons and he is done) or reduce a marine squad to a manageable number in assoult. also remember you can fire pistols and assoult with 3A per modell and your 4+ save to help. any sort of dedicated shooting unit can be under serious preassure by a scouting ST chimaera.


last but not least they are golden VS tau and eldar. both of them have so many so annoying 4+/3+ save modells which you can easily shoot to bits thanks to t3 :). and even though it has t4 crysis HATE ap3 laserguns.

[SandWyrm]

As others have said, your best bet is 5 Stormies with 2 x melta. Take 2 units and drop them in to kill whatever armor you can't otherwise take care of on turn 2 or 3. Take an Astropath too!

Used this way, Stormies are extremely reliable. Maybe even too reliable, as they never do more or less than drop, kill the target, and then suck up fire as they die.