IG Armored Battle Group + Tau Firebase Support Cadre (I'm Evil)

[Katharon]

Hello gang, how's it going? So, with the release of the new Tau Firebase Support Cadre and the rules surrounding the fact that you can take a Formation without it counting as your army's Allied Detachment -- there are going to be some interesting lists. It had me deciding to brush up and make some changes to my core Armored Battle Group list to include some Tau goodies. I'll be curious to see the feedback for this list and get people's opinions on what kind of lists they think could take it down.

Cheers!

About the army: My local gameshop goes by the rules that since double FoC is not a requirement for 2K games, that its up to us players to decide how to work that. Most of us stick to single FoC and only double it for tournaments or truly competitive events. As such, this list was written for single FoC (and indeed it is under 2K in points).

HQ

Company Command Tank [220]
Vanquisher variant
Lascannon Hull Mount
Co-axial Heavy Stubber
Anti-grenade Mesh
Beast Hunter Shells


Troops

Battle Tank Squadron #1 [300]
2 x Leman Russ Battle Tanks

Battle Tank Squadron #2 [340]
2 x Leman Russ Exterminator Tanks
2 x Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Battle Tank Squadron #3 [310]
2 x Vanquishers



Allied Formation (Not Allied Detachment)

Tau Firebase Support Cadre


XV88 Broadside Team #1[348]
3 x Broadsides
1 x armed with Twin-Linked High-yield Missile Pods
3 x Twin-linked Plasma Rifles
3 x Advanced Targeting Systems
3 x Counter Defense Systems
3 x Early warning Override
3 x Target Lock
3 x Velocity Tracker
3 x Seeker Missiles

XV88 Broadside Team #2 [272]
3 x Broadsides
1 x Twin Linked High Yield Missile Pod
1 x Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle
1 x Advanced Targeting Systems
1 x Counter Defense Systems
1 x Early warning Override
1 x Target Lock
3 x Velocity Tracker
3 x Seeker Missiles

XV104 Riptide [210]
Twin-linked Plasma Rifle
Ion Accelerator
Velocity Tracker
Early Warning Override


Total Points: 2,000

[Katharon]

I decided to change it to add in more tanks. I have plenty of anti-air, etc, without the Gunship that was there before.

[Katharon]

Updated with the second Broadside team that I would need to legally fit that formation into my army list. *facepalm*

[Katharon]

No feedback? I has the perfect list?

[fedratsailor]

you have to many support systems on the broadsides. each broadside can only take 1 support system, you have way to many on each team.

[Learn2Eel]

Broadsides really don't need or want plasma rifles. You want to be sitting at 30-36" to stay out of range of most small arms fire. And besides, the smart missiles are better guns anyway - four S5 AP5 Ignores Cover Ignores LOS shots at 30" as opposed to one S6 AP2 shot at 24"? No debate whatsoever. Give them Early Warning Overrides and that is all they need - Skyfire is fine, but eight twin-linked shots from each Broadside is generally enough in a squad to put down most fliers anyway. The Riptide is perfectly fine, though I've found that the Skyfire upgrade for it really isn't that great with the Ion Accelerator - it works better with the Heavy Burst Cannon, especially if you don't have markerlights, as is the case with taking the formation. It's something you don't really need, to be honest, and the Broadsides will more than cover any anti-air deficiencies anyway. Personally though, if you have some Vendettas or Vultures around I would be remiss not to mention those!

With the ABG, the big advantage you have is that you aren't forced to take squadrons. This army list wastes that. There really is no point whatsoever to squadron up AV14/13/11(10) vehicles if you don't have to; they are safe enough from being First Blood bait, and with them not being in squadrons they can each target separate units.

Turn the two Troops choice Vanquishers into a second HQ Vanquisher equipped the same as your Warlord Vanquisher, and the other into an Elites choice also equipped the same. Turn the two regular Battle Tanks into the remainder of your Elites choices and give them Infernus Shells. These changes will make four of your tanks far deadlier.
Leman Russ Exterminators are....pretty mediocre, to be perfectly honest. If they work for you then that's all good, just be aware that the generally preferred Troops choices for ABG if you don't want Infantry are Thunderers and Leman Russ Demolishers.

[Katharon]

Broadsides really don't need or want plasma rifles. You want to be sitting at 30-36" to stay out of range of most small arms fire. And besides, the smart missiles are better guns anyway - four S5 AP5 Ignores Cover Ignores LOS shots at 30" as opposed to one S6 AP2 shot at 24"? No debate whatsoever. Give them Early Warning Overrides and that is all they need - Skyfire is fine, but eight twin-linked shots from each Broadside is generally enough in a squad to put down most fliers anyway. The Riptide is perfectly fine, though I've found that the Skyfire upgrade for it really isn't that great with the Ion Accelerator - it works better with the Heavy Burst Cannon, especially if you don't have markerlights, as is the case with taking the formation. It's something you don't really need, to be honest, and the Broadsides will more than cover any anti-air deficiencies anyway. Personally though, if you have some Vendettas or Vultures around I would be remiss not to mention those!

I went with the plasma guns on the broadsides because of the enemy units I expect to be hunting them -- such as deep striking terminators. Because of its higher strength and AP, I like it a lot. But I understand what you mean.

Ion Accelerator is, imho, one of the most versatile weapons that the Riptide has -- plus if I can hit something with it on the Skyfire mode then that flier in question will be going down.



With the ABG, the big advantage you have is that you aren't forced to take squadrons. This army list wastes that. There really is no point whatsoever to squadron up AV14/13/11(10) vehicles if you don't have to; they are safe enough from being First Blood bait, and with them not being in squadrons they can each target separate units.

You're quite right. I wrote this first with four or five squadrons (ABG by itself with no allies, etc) so part of that mentality stemmed into this list. With that in mind, I will be breaking the squadrons up to take advantage of the six Troop slots I have open.


Turn the two Troops choice Vanquishers into a second HQ Vanquisher equipped the same as your Warlord Vanquisher, and the other into an Elites choice also equipped the same. Turn the two regular Battle Tanks into the remainder of your Elites choices and give them Infernus Shells. These changes will make four of your tanks far deadlier.

But that would leave me with no troop choices and expensive tanks. The points have to come from somewhere. I might make a 2nd HQ vanquisher, but maybe not. Depends.



Leman Russ Exterminators are....pretty mediocre, to be perfectly honest. If they work for you then that's all good, just be aware that the generally preferred Troops choices for ABG if you don't want Infantry are Thunderers and Leman Russ Demolishers.

Exterminators are awesome. You must not use them very much. They work wonders in being able to take down both fliers (when I'm desperate for those twin-linked heavy 4 autocannon shots to hit and take off the last Hull Point on a flier) and light tanks -- and when matched with heavy bolter sponsons they can put out a decent anti-infantry barrage as well (though not nearly as well as Punishers, which I like to use for that roll).

I don't like Demolishers or Thunderers for ABG lists because of the range. The whole purpose of my list is to kill everything really dangerous before it gets within two feet of me and then whittle down the rest.

[Learn2Eel]

I went with the plasma guns on the broadsides because of the enemy units I expect to be hunting them -- such as deep striking terminators. Because of its higher strength and AP, I like it a lot. But I understand what you mean.

Ion Accelerator is, imho, one of the most versatile weapons that the Riptide has -- plus if I can hit something with it on the Skyfire mode then that flier in question will be going down.

You're quite right. I wrote this first with four or five squadrons (ABG by itself with no allies, etc) so part of that mentality stemmed into this list. With that in mind, I will be breaking the squadrons up to take advantage of the six Troop slots I have open.

But that would leave me with no troop choices and expensive tanks. The points have to come from somewhere. I might make a 2nd HQ vanquisher, but maybe not. Depends.

Exterminators are awesome. You must not use them very much. They work wonders in being able to take down both fliers (when I'm desperate for those twin-linked heavy 4 autocannon shots to hit and take off the last Hull Point on a flier) and light tanks -- and when matched with heavy bolter sponsons they can put out a decent anti-infantry barrage as well (though not nearly as well as Punishers, which I like to use for that roll).

I don't like Demolishers or Thunderers for ABG lists because of the range. The whole purpose of my list is to kill everything really dangerous before it gets within two feet of me and then whittle down the rest.

Fair enough if you expect those units regularly. Just be aware that Riptides and the rest of an ABG do deal with those units well enough anyway.

The Ion Accelerator is definitely the best weapon option for a Riptide, however, it isn't the best for Skyfire. Taking down fliers with a BS3 model that doesn't have re-rolls lends itself better to a higher rate of fire gun, which is where the Heavy Burst Cannon comes into play. If you had Markerlights, it would be a non-issue, but even then the Heavy Burst Cannon would still win out - particularly with a Nova Charge. The success of such a battle-suit was seen with the Nova winning Tau list with several Riptides, though of course that is an entirely different beast. The Riptide in general without Markerlights is a mediocre at best anti-flyer model. You will average one or two hits with an Ion Accelerator and even against an AV10 flyer you are only likely to get one damage result. Hardly the stuff of legend I think.

Good stuff!

You would still have the two Exterminators as Troops choices, would you not? Battle Tanks and Vanquishers are simply far better as Command/Commissar tanks than they are regularly. Give Battle Tanks Infernus Shells, give Vanquishers hull lascannons, co-axial heavy stubbers and Beast Hunter Shells. Job done. You now have two Battle Tanks that make absolute mince meat of any squad with a 4+ armour save, and three Vanquishers that annihilate any tank or monstrous creature on the field. Trust me. With the points you drop on the Tau formation, you will want to make these changes.

I know how Exterminators perform, and they really aren't that good. They are supposed to be "autocannon tanks", but the reality is that a Vanquisher does the job of destroying any tank far better. Commissar Battle Tanks with Infernus Shells annihilate light infantry far better. In an ABG list, they don't have a place because of the amazing Commissar Battle Tanks and Command/Commissar Vanquishers. As for hunting fliers, that is what your Tau are for, and the Tau do it far better - even when you take Skyfire off of the Riptide! And besides, I simply don't understand why you would want Exterminators when you have HYMP Broadsides that put out more shots, are significantly cheaper per model and can actually take either Skyfire or Interceptor.

Thunderers and Demolishers are the best value Troops choices for the ABG because they can actually scare the pants off the opponent. Leman Russes really aren't that scary in terms of firepower, that is until you take the Commissar and Command exclusive upgrades the ABG gives to Battle Tanks and Vanquishers. Thunderers and Demolishers work to take the heat off off those tanks by being 'forward elements' and having S10 AP2 Ordnance Large Blast guns. No sane opponent ignores those guns, which means no sane opponent will try and take your Command and Commissar Tanks while the Thunderers and Demolishers are attacking them. Think of them as road-blocks to the "real ordnance" and you will see what I mean. They are the most consistent and appropriately costed performers out of the regular Leman Russ tanks, especially when you take Pask out of the equation.

Understand though that these thoughts are from a strictly competitive sense of view. I don't know how your meta is but if, for example, you were to take this list to a tournament then you will find that the Beast Hunter Vanquishers and Infernus Battle Tanks will be the real heavy-weights, that and the Exterminators are simply filler that step on the toes of the Broadsides and are outclassed in every sense by the other tanks.

[Katharon]

I'm aware of the various tactical advantages that the Demolishers and Thunderers provide, but my play style and tactics lend me more strength in terms of that extra range. Even in a competitive environment, at least that which I have participated in, it hasn't proven to be a detriment - yet. Few people have come up with any clever counters to my ABGs in the past, and when they did I just changed tactics or deployment methods to deal with them.

As they say, no plan survives contact with the enemy. ^_^


Thanks for all the feedback by the way. I appreciate it. Once I get the list re-written, I'd like another look at it from you.

[Learn2Eel]

That's fair enough. See, I don't mean to say Exterminators and the like aren't without uses, they certainly do have them. After all, every meta and play-style is different. If they work better for you, that's awesome!

No worries! I'd like to :)

[Anggul]

you have to many support systems on the broadsides. each broadside can only take 1 support system, you have way to many on each team.

I'm curious about this too. Does the formation allow you to take as many as you want or something?

[fedratsailor]

no, you take the models and rules straight out of the codex, and in the codex it states only 1 support system.

[Katharon]

That's my mistake. I have the digital version of the dataslate and its kind of intermingled with the other details. So yeah, just one of each system. I'll have to go back and re-write it when I do the shift. Shame, I'd have loved to have those systems all on the same machines.

[Katharon]

LIST NUMBER ONE

Armored Battle Group

HQ

Company Command Tank [215]
Vanquisher
Hull Lascannon
Artificer Hull
Beast Hunter Shells

Company Command Tank [215]
Vanquisher
Hull Lascannon
Artificer Hull
Beast Hunter Shells


Elites

Commissar Tank [215]
Vanquisher
Hull Lascannon
Artificer Hull
Beast Hunter Shells

Troops

Battle Tank Squadron [150]
1 x Leman Russ Battle Tank

Battle Tank Squadron [150]
1 x Leman Russ Battle Tank

Armored Fist Squad [105]
AFS with Chimera Transport


Fortification

1 x Void Shield Generator [75]
1 extra void shield


Tau Firebase Support Cadre Formation (874)

Broadside Team #1 [332]
3 x Broadsides
1 x Plasma Rifle
3 x Velocity Tracker
6 x Missile Drones

Broadside Team #2 [282]
3 x Broadsides
3 x High Yield Missile Pods
3 x Counterfire Defense System
6 x Missile Drones


Riptide [260]
1 x Ion Accelerator
1 x Counterfire Defense System
1 x Velocity Tracker
2 x Shielded Missile Drones


Total Points: 1,999


LIST NUMBER TWO


Armored Battle Group

HQ

Company Command Tank [215]
Vanquisher
Hull Lascannon
Artificer Hull
Beast Hunter Shells

Company Command Tank [215]
Vanquisher
Hull Lascannon
Artificer Hull
Beast Hunter Shells

Troops

Siege Tank Squadron #1 [230]
1 x Leman Russ Executioner
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Camo Net

Siege Tank Squadron #2 [230]
1 x Leman Russ Executioner
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Camo Net

Siege Tank Squadron #3 [230]
1 x Leman Russ Executioner
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Camo Net

Tau Firebase Support Cadre Formation

Broadside Team #1 [332]
3 x Broadsides
1 x Plasma Rifle
3 x Velocity Tracker
6 x Missile Drones

Broadside Team #2 [282]
3 x Broadsides
3 x High Yield Missile Pods
3 x Counterfire Defense System
6 x Missile Drones


Riptide [260]
1 x Ion Accelerator
1 x Counterfire Defense System
1 x Velocity Tracker
2 x Shielded Missile Drones

Total Points: 1,994


LIST NUMBER THREE


Armored Battle Group

HQ

Company Command Tank [230]
Vanquisher
Hull Lascannon
Artificer Hull
Anti-Grenade Mesh
Beast Hunter Shells

Company Command Tank [230]
Vanquisher
Hull Lascannon
Artificer Hull
Anti-Grenade Mesh
Beast Hunter Shells

Troops

Siege Tank Squadron #1 [220]
1 x Leman Russ Punisher
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Camo Net

Siege Tank Squadron #2 [220]
1 x Leman Russ Punisher
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Camo Net

Siege Tank Squadron #3 [220]
1 x Leman Russ Punisher
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Camo Net

Tau Firebase Support Cadre Formation

Broadside Team #1 [332]
3 x Broadsides
1 x Plasma Rifle
3 x Velocity Tracker
6 x Missile Drones

Broadside Team #2 [282]
3 x Broadsides
3 x High Yield Missile Pods
3 x Counterfire Defense System
6 x Missile Drones


Riptide [260]
1 x Ion Accelerator
1 x Counterfire Defense System
1 x Velocity Tracker
2 x Shielded Missile Drones

Total Points: 1,994

[Katharon]

Three new lists. I've got a game coming up this weekend, so I'd like to get as much feedback on which army I should take. (Friend of mine is lending me his Tau models for me to field the formation)

[energongoodie]

Forgive me but do you not have to capture objectives in the games you and your chums play?
The lack of true troops choices would make me nervous.
Or is your plan to blow everybody off the board and negate the need to hold objectives? :)

[Katharon]

Or is your plan to blow everybody off the board and negate the need to hold objectives? :)

Bingo. Also, the Riptide and Broadsides are denial units, so if I really have to get desperate I can gun for a tie.

[Scripts]

Are you staying with the SMS weapon option on the riptide, or changing it to plasma or fusion? Its probably best to stay with the sms, since its twin linked and has the most range.

[Katharon]

Are you staying with the SMS weapon option on the riptide, or changing it to plasma or fusion? Its probably best to stay with the sms, since its twin linked and has the most range.

Unless I post that one of its weapon replacement options was taken, then the original stock weapon is the one I am taking. And yes, I am staying with the SMS.