Are GW playing to the Veterans?

[Denzark]

Hello Chaps

I was considering the sheer amount of non-plastic crack coming out of GW at the mo. Codexes, supplements, warzones, apoc, Escalation, Stronghold etc. And then it occurred to me. How many conversations do we have on BoLS and around the other bazaars, where we are indulging in a spot of GW bashing.

And then someone will say: "Well I have 1 million points of unpainted Blood Angels, I never need to buy from GW again'. How true - maybe there is a saturation point - if you look at 70K+ entries on Ebay for 40K stuff, the market is there.

So I got wondering. Is all the books, whether e- or not, an attempt to tap into this. Aha! You have stopped buying into miniatures, but who wouldn't dig a bunker assault supplement. You can't play Apoc all the time - why not squeeze a superheavy into the game, requiring another £30 book?

What do you think, is this a deliberate ploy or the side effect of some undisclosed change of tactics in Nottingham?

[Wolfshade]

I had not considered that. It does seem to be an interesting move, plus it gives extra spice with all thses different missions and what-not.

[Psychosplodge]

You may be right.
Until I work through my backlog there's no reason for me to add to it (unless something really takes my fancy) but the Black Library is making money off me at the moment.
Also I would imagine the skill set to write books is more widely available than the skills to sculpt new stuff.

[Wolfshade]

I would also imagine in terms of "splash" they would have a better cost/price ratio.

After all alot of these ideas that they put into the books in terms of new rules are quite minimal and may have appeared in previous rule/codex testing and even some narrative games played in-house.

[Mr Mystery]

They're easier to get on the shelves than new models, and let us do more things with said models, so you may well be on to something.

But there's also an argument that because it encourages gaming activity, it aids in the retention of noobs. Plus, whereas some parents may not be keen on buying models every month, it's a thankfully rare parent who doesn't want to buy their child a book!

[Eberk]

How many players with 1 million points of unpainted Blood Angels will NOT buy multiple boxes of new Blood Angel models when GW releases new tanks/units/characters ? Or will NOT start a new army ?

With all the new Codexes, Supplements, etc... these are the 40K happy times.

[Denzark]

A fair point Eberk. But I think there is a fair body of players who will just buy the new stuff. So a marine player gets his flak tanks, centurions and a storm raven. New tacticals are nice but superfluous. A Dark Angel Player gets some RW knights but no new terminators to go with his 60 DW minis. Me being Chaos, has some Helturkeys added in to a 20 year force.

That sort of thing. Whereas I must opt in to new book purchases which keep me ticking over and may mean I drop some money on new 'interative' terrain pieces.

As I said, maybe it is just atotally unrelated coincidence, but there has been a certain level of vocal locals claiming they don't need new stuff, but the books are gold.

[Wolfshade]

At the BA splash I picked up the brand new models so libby dread, astrorath, stormraven, sanguinagry guard...

But I shan't start a new army till I have painted what I have...

Certainly the terrain is more interessting to me...

[Sainhann]

Yes I am one of those who don't need to buy any more miniatures and if I did it wouldn't be from GW.

But I won't buy any of their new books either because they like their miniatures are overprice for what you get.

To buy every single new Codex they have right now would cost me over $400 and for what?

A new updated army list and a few new rules.

Not worth $55 per book and with GW that price is only going to go up in price in the future.

So it is only a matter of time before they are $75 and then $100 per Codex.

[Mr Mystery]

Good lord! It's as if our hobby is some sort of luxury!

[Wildeybeast]

Yes I am one of those who don't need to buy any more miniatures and if I did it wouldn't be from GW.

But I won't buy any of their new books either because they like their miniatures are overprice for what you get.

To buy every single new Codex they have right now would cost me over $400 and for what?

A new updated army list and a few new rules.

Not worth $55 per book and with GW that price is only going to go up in price in the future.

So it is only a matter of time before they are $75 and then $100 per Codex.

Why on earth would you buy every codex? That would be incredibly expensive, not to mention rather daft.

As for the op, I think it's just trying to cater to all markets, rather than a change of direction. They have always been and will always be, a miniatures company. There are players who have so many miniatures that they really don't know what to do with them and won't buy any more, but will invest in exciting new ways to use said miniatures. The new books let them do so quickly and easily, without adding anything else. (I note that with the exception of Apocalypse, none of the 40k additions have required any new models to be released.)
But there will always be people who want new shiny plastic crack regardless of how many models they already have. How many people have ever actually stuck to the vow not to buy anything new until everything you have is painted?

[Houghten]

Why on earth would you buy every codex? That would be incredibly expensive, not to mention rather daft.

Hello, I'm Daft.

I like to memorise all the things, and for that I need all the Codexes.

Though as they get more expensive, they have eaten up a significantly larger portion of my gaming budget...

[Denzark]

Yes I am one of those who don't need to buy any more miniatures and if I did it wouldn't be from GW.

But I won't buy any of their new books either because they like their miniatures are overprice for what you get.

To buy every single new Codex they have right now would cost me over $400 and for what?

A new updated army list and a few new rules.

Not worth $55 per book and with GW that price is only going to go up in price in the future.

So it is only a matter of time before they are $75 and then $100 per Codex.



Umm ... How are you going to stay current with the rules - just use torrents so the price increases cover a little bit extra to account for pirates? Or are you opting out at the end of 6th? If so why invest any time on this forum? Time is money right?

[Mr Mystery]

Hello, I'm Daft.

I like to memorise all the things, and for that I need all the Codexes.

Though as they get more expensive, they have eaten up a significantly larger portion of my gaming budget...

I'm daft too! Every Codex, every Army Book.

They're worthwhile reads, especially on the lav!

[Wildeybeast]

Ok, I can't tell whether you guys are being serious or not. If you are, then fair enough. By all means, buy all the books you like. But moaning about the cost of buying all the books when you only need to ones for your army is just plain daft.

[Mr Mystery]

Neither joking nor moaning?

[Sainhann]

Good lord! It's as if our hobby is some sort of luxury!

Well with GW today it is.

I could not afford to replace any of my current armies since doing so would mean forking over quite a bit of money.

[Sainhann]

Umm ... How are you going to stay current with the rules - just use torrents so the price increases cover a little bit extra to account for pirates? Or are you opting out at the end of 6th? If so why invest any time on this forum? Time is money right?

I am not staying current and have move onto other set of rules that put GW 's to shame.

[Sainhann]

Ok, I can't tell whether you guys are being serious or not. If you are, then fair enough. By all means, buy all the books you like. But moaning about the cost of buying all the books when you only need to ones for your army is just plain daft.

You are correct and the reason why it is just plain daft is the cost.

But many gamers have mroe than one army and quite a few have all of them.

So what are they going to do?

Just for 40K I have:

Eldar
Orks
Imperial Guard
Dark Angels
Regular Marines

That is five armies right there and at $55 per Codex that would mean $275 at least.

Plus add in the Imperial Guard Codexs for major regiments that would be another $55 plus another for the Eldar Craftworld.

So 7 Codex's minimum for $385.

Not all but what I would need to buy just to play my armies.

Oh and quess if I did I would have to fork over even more in just a few years.

[Mr Mystery]

Which is precisely why I have a job....

[Darren Richardson]

How many people have ever actually stuck to the vow not to buy anything new until everything you have is painted?

Guilty as charged!

My grandparents gave me some money last week as a thank you for helping them this year with their declining health and such, especially for me to buy some more figures for my space marine army I have been trying to put together now since 3rd edition came out!

I now own almost half a Space Marine company and still haven't been able to get a decent colour scheme sorted out, I've been stripping them down because it didn't work......

As for these mini E-Books, I might buy a couple if they put out any interesting ones that I could use.

[His_Dudeness]

I’m very tired of people complaining about our hobby. I have friends who are into cars. TBH we got off relatively cheap with toy soldiers. And it’s only expensive if you look at it as a whole. Sure your 1mil pts. of BA plus books and paints and and and cost x but did you drop that all at once? Try rebuilding a car with only a few hundred bucks a month.

But I guess that’s what the interweb is for. Complain and hate on something you can’t stand but for some reason can’t stop reading or posting about.

[Wildeybeast]

You are correct and the reason why it is just plain daft is the cost.

But many gamers have mroe than one army and quite a few have all of them.

So what are they going to do?

Just for 40K I have:

Eldar
Orks
Imperial Guard
Dark Angels
Regular Marines

That is five armies right there and at $55 per Codex that would mean $275 at least.

Plus add in the Imperial Guard Codexs for major regiments that would be another $55 plus another for the Eldar Craftworld.

So 7 Codex's minimum for $385.

Not all but what I would need to buy just to play my armies.

Oh and quess if I did I would have to fork over even more in just a few years.

I have six armies for two systems, so I know it isn't cheap. But if you buy them on a month by month basis, it becomes more manageable. You may get the best part of two years between codex releases. You could also think about how much you playing with each of those armies and prioritise those armies you play with most. You probably aren't making the best use of that many armies, and you only need books for one or two of them. You don't have to have all the books to enjoy the games.


Guilty as charged!

My grandparents gave me some money last week as a thank you for helping them this year with their declining health and such, especially for me to buy some more figures for my space marine army I have been trying to put together now since 3rd edition came out!

I now own almost half a Space Marine company and still haven't been able to get a decent colour scheme sorted out, I've been stripping them down because it didn't work......

As for these mini E-Books, I might buy a couple if they put out any interesting ones that I could use.

Yeah, I often used to make that vow, but plastic crack is just too tempting. Now, I jut try to go as long as possible without buying stuff, before the craving takes hold again.

[Deadlift]

The amount enjoyment I get out of the hobby and the wonderful friends I have made thought it is priceless to me and worth every penny.
I don't always agree with GWs pricing but for the most part I can't complain as the minus points are far out weighed by the plus.

[Houghten]

Ok, I can't tell whether you guys are being serious or not. If you are, then fair enough. By all means, buy all the books you like. But moaning about the cost of buying all the books when you only need to ones for your army is just plain daft.

I haven't moaned! "They have eaten up a significantly larger portion of my gaming budget" is merely an observation. There will come a time when I have to sit up and say to myself, "OK, Daft, this is getting silly. If you keep buying every Codex you're never going to buy another model, and what's the point of that?" and on that day I will haz a sad, and might even moan. But I'm not moaning yet.

[Katharon]

Gamesworkshop has not (since probably its first year or two) ever "played" or marketed itself to veterans. In fact it has made every effort to push towards new players and people just now coming into the hobby. A friend that works at the only two stores in Tokyo told me that he was trying to sell a box of paint to a player when his boss told him afterwards "don't bother with that, just focus on selling starter sets." They know that once someone has the starter set that they will then be more inclined to purchase more later. Ergo, more starter set sales = more net profit long term.

[Wolfshade]

Or more importantly, more starter sets = more wargamers huzaah!

[Denzark]

I am not staying current and have move onto other set of rules that put GW 's to shame.

Again, why are you wasting your precious time reading and contribtuing to GW-related threads - does the community you have movedonto not have anything worth talking about - or can you just not resist slating GW?

Any why would GW be 'ashamed' of their ruleset? When it is clearly hugely popular - thus implying it delivers a level of satisfaction to many. 'Shame' should be reserved for things like when one is caught touching one's self inappropriately, or hanging out the back of a goat or some such.

[Arkhan Land]

if theres any truth to the idea of GW site section/net app for their e-releases, could you imagine how much money theyre going to make off the 10 seconds of intro add for whatever latest movie that youll have to watch while it starts up. Every new Transformers movie or what have you could be folding money for GW without selling a goddam thing just because you need to log in

[Katharon]

if theres any truth to the idea of GW site section/net app for their e-releases, could you imagine how much money theyre going to make off the 10 seconds of intro add for whatever latest movie that youll have to watch while it starts up. Every new Transformers movie or what have you could be folding money for GW without selling a goddam thing just because you need to log in

Just imagine if they teamed up with Disney to develop a table-top Star Wars game (not the current one) based on WH40K-style rules? I'd buy that. I'd buy that quick.

[Wildeybeast]

I haven't moaned! "They have eaten up a significantly larger portion of my gaming budget" is merely an observation. There will come a time when I have to sit up and say to myself, "OK, Daft, this is getting silly. If you keep buying every Codex you're never going to buy another model, and what's the point of that?" and on that day I will haz a sad, and might even moan. But I'm not moaning yet.

Sorry, I was trying to suggest you were moaning. That was more aimed at other contributors.

[Panther Berg]

Yes I am one of those who don't need to buy any more miniatures and if I did it wouldn't be from GW.

But I won't buy any of their new books either because they like their miniatures are overprice for what you get.

OK, so you are pretty much done giving GW your money.

Who are you playing with? Others who have the books and share the information? People who aren't interested in an evolving game? Or just yourself?

[40kGamer]

Hello Chaps

I was considering the sheer amount of non-plastic crack coming out of GW at the mo. Codexes, supplements, warzones, apoc, Escalation, Stronghold etc. And then it occurred to me. How many conversations do we have on BoLS and around the other bazaars, where we are indulging in a spot of GW bashing.

So I got wondering. Is all the books, whether e- or not, an attempt to tap into this. Aha! You have stopped buying into miniatures, but who wouldn't dig a bunker assault supplement. You can't play Apoc all the time - why not squeeze a superheavy into the game, requiring another £30 book?

What do you think, is this a deliberate ploy or the side effect of some undisclosed change of tactics in Nottingham?

I think you are spot on... I've mentioned this same idea in local circles for months as GW has ramped up rules production. Us RT vets have lived through many versions of the same models as design quality improved, then the slow transition to plastic... but at some point the market will get saturated. Honestly, how many times can you resculpt the exact same model until you no longer make a profit from releasing it? On the flip side how many books can you sell to people when the rules change? Personally I'm digging the new strategy and enjoying all of the fluff and rules while they last...

[GCGordon]

That's a bad comparison...if I rebuild a car, there's a good chance I can sell it and make a profit!

And knowing friends of mine who do rebuild cars, it's much more then a hobby...it can become an obsession, especially if you're looking for that part you need for that '57 Chevy!

[Chadddada]

Yes I am one of those who don't need to buy any more miniatures and if I did it wouldn't be from GW.

But I won't buy any of their new books either because they like their miniatures are overprice for what you get.

To buy every single new Codex they have right now would cost me over $400 and for what?

A new updated army list and a few new rules.

Not worth $55 per book and with GW that price is only going to go up in price in the future.



Good luck finding someone that will want to play you w/o an updated list / army codex.

[Orange]

Which is precisely why I have a job....

Seriously +1 to this.

[Denzark]

Can I just add for the benefit of the tape, I didn't start the poll; not sure I'd go as far as to say new gamers ain't the #1 priority - it just certainly seems a lucky coincidence us RT vets are getting something to stick our teeth into for a change!

[Kevin48220]

I'm relatively new to the game (started with 6th), and I'm getting a lot more than overwhelmed with all of this. Every release is changing things around, and the constant addition of new rules to individual armies and the game as a whole is getting to be a bit much. I don't have as much time to play as some, and I'm still working to really get my codex and the main rules down. Now, I'm looking at two more rulebooks and maybe eventually having to add the superheavy models to my army to keep up with everyone else tactically.

It's not a matter of cost for me. I know the game is expensive, and that's fine. I choose to play it and do the hobby end of it as well. It's fun. But, it's hitting the point where I can't keep up with it. Adding formations that don't count as allies for FOC purposes, or other detachments (like Inquisition, if I get the rules right on that), and now superheavies, and new fortification rules--it's all getting to be too much to take in.

That's just my experience; I don't mean this as a GW hate post, it's not one of those. It's just the experience of a more casual new player who's getting a bit fed up with the constant changes and updates, and wishes the rules set would stabilize for a while so he can get a handle on things. If this keeps up, I may just switch over to WFB, which seems to be a good deal more stable on the rules end of things.

That being said, I also respect the opinions posted here from those who are really embracing all the new stuff. That's awesome, and it sounds like you are enjoying it all. I'm just saying my experience as a new player is a bit different, and I voted on the poll that they are gearing 40K more to veteran players than new players at the present time. Again, just my opinion.

[The Imperial Fist]

Why on earth would you buy every codex? That would be incredibly expensive, not to mention rather daft.


Back just a couple of years (4 at most) ago when a codex was £8-£12 I used to buy them all. The background was interesting to read and it meant you were able to know thy enemy. Now they're all £30-£35, it's put me off doing that any more.

[Mr Mystery]

Lot more than 4 years mate....

[The Imperial Fist]

No, as I was still at uni when I bought some of them and the bigger one's were £12 then and the smaller ones £8. I only started there 4 years ago and I got Necrons (old version) and Tyranids at £12. I felt physically sick when I went in a couple of years ago to replace C:BT and saw it and the rest were then £20. Decided I'd just root around my storage unit until I found it after that :-/

[Darren Richardson]

I'm relatively new to the game (started with 6th), and I'm getting a lot more than overwhelmed with all of this.....
.....But, it's hitting the point where I can't keep up with it.....
.....it's all getting to be too much to take in.

Aaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddddddddd thats why I quit collecting CCG's Ladies and Gentlemen, too many sets each year with too many cards to collect.

That's why I ONLY stick with one army for each system and no more.

[Mr Mystery]

No, as I was still at uni when I bought some of them and the bigger one's were £12 then and the smaller ones £8. I only started there 4 years ago and I got Necrons (old version) and Tyranids at £12. I felt physically sick when I went in a couple of years ago to replace C:BT and saw it and the rest were then £20. Decided I'd just root around my storage unit until I found it after that :-/

Four years ago we were into 5th Edition. Most codecies went to £15 around 4th Ed (increased content). Marine one if memory serves was a bit more expensive (£20 when others reached £18).

Now of course, full colour, hard back. That's more expensive to produce, and a better product all in all due to the binding used.

[Lord-Boofhead]

To buy every single new Codex they have right now would cost me over $400 and for what?

No one, GW least of all expects you to do that though. Just buy your 'dex and stop whining. Or alternative if you hate the hobby so much the door is over there...

[Lord-Boofhead]

You could also think about how much you playing with each of those armies and prioritise those armies you play with most. You probably aren't making the best use of that many armies, and you only need books for one or two of them. You don't have to have all the books to enjoy the games.

Yeah I torrent the new books so I can swot up on my opponents forces and so I can plan Lists out but once I have enough troops on the table to play in a Tournt I buy the physical copy. For example I have a box full of Orcs and Gobling for wfb that I have had since 4th ed but I won't buy the Codex until I have enough of the buggers painted to get them on the table..

[Lord-Boofhead]

I could not afford to replace any of my current armies since doing so would mean forking over quite a bit of money.

Who is expecting you to replace the mini's in your army? I started in 1994 and still use minis I bought then. Hell I have an IG army that uses Squats as Infantry, minis that came out BEFORE I started playing.

[Lord-Boofhead]

But many gamers have mroe than one army and quite a few have all of them.


So your argument is that people who have enough money to afford 'ALL OF THE MINITURES!!!!!' can't afford to buy a new book now and then. Yep. Sounds like a rational argument...

[Kevin48220]

Aaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddddddddd thats why I quit collecting CCG's Ladies and Gentlemen, too many sets each year with too many cards to collect.

That's why I ONLY stick with one army for each system and no more.

I had to laugh heartily at your post, because you and I quit CCG's for the same reasons!

But your point is well taken. I've had a few days to step back and look at all of it. In a way, it is like the CCG thing. I don't know if it's even possible to know all the rules, or all the combos, or all the things that are possible. Your post was really helpful, in that it reminded me that it's not so much about knowing all the rules off the top of my head.

I only need to know my own stuff really well, and there are books/ebooks/what-have-you for all the rest.

[Lexington]

What do you think, is this a deliberate ploy or the side effect of some undisclosed change of tactics in Nottingham?
Probably a negligible side effect of GW's overall mandate to maximize the revenue stream provided to them by your average game of 40K. If they sell it, it has specific rules (conversely, if it doesn't have a model to sell, it don't got no rules), and the restrictions on what can be taken in a game are being continually loosened to the point where it's easy to wonder why they even bother with FOC anymore. Makes more than enough sense as business logic, and in a lot of ways, it's given us an game that much more accurately represents the large and varied battlefields of the 40K universe (yay, Allies!). The unfortunate side effect, however, is that the clear priority of sales over quality when it comes to rules development has left the once-promising 6th Edition as a complete joke when it comes to the business of playing a game that's even slightly competitive.