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Just_Me
12-01-2009, 05:53 PM
Let's take a moment to consider "the Assignment," the scale that the Imperium uses to categorize the relative power of psykers. For those unfamiliar with it, here is a summary:

The Assignment (by exponentially ascending level of power):

Average human, no manifestation of psionic power
• Rho
• Pi
Unconscious/extremely low level manifestations, “lucky,” “intuitive” (possibly controllable with sufficient training)
• Omicron
• Xi
• Nu
• Mu
• Lambda
• Kappa
Conscious low level manifestations, “true” psykers
• Iota
• Theta
• Eta
Powerful manifestations, very potent psykers
• Zeta
• Epsilon
Exceptionally powerful manifestations, incredibly potent psykers
• Delta
• Gamma
Truly extraordinary manifestations, among the most powerful living beings in existence (human minds almost always become dangerously unstable at these levels and above)
• Beta
• Alpha
Manifestations so powerful they defy simple categorization
• Alpha-Plus

The Assignment actually does continue to categorize beyond Alpha-Plus, beginning an inverse scaling with Beta-Plus and theoretically continuing to Omega-Plus. No entity beyond Gamma-Plus has ever been observed (or if they have, there have been no survivors), and it is theorized that beyond Zeta-Plus the entity has no need for a physical body and exists as pure psionic force (pos. Emperor and the Warp Gods?).

The Negative-Assignment (bottom end of the Assignment, dovetails into that scale):

Pariah
• Omega-Minus
Blanks or untouchables
• Omega
Minor levels of immunity to psionic effects
• Upsilon
• Phi
• Chi
• Psi
Psionically inert
• Sigma
• Tau


Open discussion here, as one of my professors was fond of saying "just give it some thought and say something intelligent." So no specific question, but just to get us started; we know that this scale is used for humans, but where do some of the alien psykers fall on the Assignment? Where is the average Eldar Farseer or Warlock, or for that matter the average baseline Eldar? How about the other known xenos psykers like Orks? And what kind of levels do the psi "conduits" among the Tyranids operate?

And what about some of our favorite Astartes psykers like Tigrus or Mephiston, or humans like Inquisitors Ravenor, Eisenhorn, or Rex? It seems to me that human psykers are far more unstable and widely ranged than the other psi-active races, exhibiting farther extremes than the other races.

Let's hear what everyone has to say.

entendre_entendre
12-01-2009, 10:05 PM
hmm. i always thought the average SM librarian was a Beta level psyker, but by this scale they'd more likely be Epsilon-Gamma level.
IMO, Tigurius, Mepheston, and the other uber powered SM psykers would be Beta level on this scale.

Alpha level psykers are ridiculously powerful, they've been described as able to snap a titan in half with but a glance, and turn an army upon itself in bloodlust with but a word. seriously, the only ones in the imperium who have even a chance of taking down an Alpha level would be the Grey Knights and the Inquisition (due to the use of blanks). Alpha levels are so powerful, in the warp, daemons fight each other over who gets to possess the poor SOB. "if the average human is a flicker, then an Alpha level is an inferno" (quote 3rd ed MRB?)

I guess the Apex Twins would be at least Beta-plus level (i thought they had their own power level rank, but i can't remember...), i mean they escaped from a freaking black ship, and then from an Inquisition fortress!

As for eldar, Lambda - Theta level for the regular guys, and higher than that for the warlocks and seers.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 07:46 AM
Most Alpha-Plus level psykers have no allegiance save themselves, and they're forces of nature/the warp as much as anything.


Also note, I think all levels of Psyker have similar levels of Blank (IE Pariah, Untouchable, etc). For example. Dark Heresy describes a level of Blank that is considered a low-level or "common" and untrained Blank, whose aura is quite small (on average three meters) and only has a chance of canceling out psychic powers unless they're aimed directly at the blank or include the blank in their effect. In the Ciaphas Cain series, the author described the actual Necron Pariahs, whom had technology to effect non-psykers, but weren't necessarilly so strong that it couldn't be resisted (And furthermore, somehow Jurgen was able to interfere) Meanwhile, Gunner Jurgen is obviously a much stronger Blank, as just being near him can cause some psykers to go into convulsions, and canceled out ALL psychic powers of any kind that effected anyone within his sizeable aura. And then there's the Culexis assassins, whom are the strongest Blanks known, trained with superior technology to let them utilize their Blank powers at their fullest, effecting psykers and non-psykers alike. Clearly several levels of Blank.

Artein
12-02-2009, 10:53 AM
To add something (with a little spoiler from Gaunt's Ghosts), Agun Soric became Beta level psyker and all he was doing was farseeing the future.
On the other hand, Brin Milo also had some psychic potential, probably somewhere around Mu level, maybe Lambda.

And what about Sisters of Battle? They're immune to psychic powers to some degree.... I'd say somewhere around Psi....

Melissia
12-02-2009, 11:52 AM
The Sisters of Battle are neither Psykers nor Blanks. The third edition codex specifically says Acts of Faith and the Shield of Faith are not psychic powers. They are something else entirely, perhaps they really are miracles, perhaps they are a sign of the Emperor's favor, or perhaps they are just amazing things that insanely motivated people in power armor are capable of doing in the right circumstances.

Just_Me
12-02-2009, 11:59 AM
To add something (with a little spoiler from Gaunt's Ghosts), Agun Soric became Beta level psyker and all he was doing was farseeing the future..

Ah, yes, I have given that some thought myself. The issue there is that Abnett played fast and loose with psyker ratings in his books (probably because the Assignment didn't formally exist while he was writing them). For example, he calls Ravenor as an Alpha level psyker after his injuries, as opposed to the more realistic rating (Delta I believe) he gave him before that. Although in this case it can be explained away by the fact that Ravenor's life-support systems included powerful psi-boosters that artificially amped up his power.

On the other hand, Soric's ability may appear minor, but on closer consideration is actually very, very powerful, his short ranged precognition was totally accurate down to the most minute detail, something not even the Eldar Farseers can claim. Also, *SPOILER* when he reappears in Only in Death after training and conditioning, he is able to sense the presence of the Ghosts from across the planet and reach out to them, in addition, he was able to obliterate in short order a large group of Blood Pact who would have slain Hark and his people.

As for the Sisters, I had always felt that their resistance was more due to mental fortitude and conditioning combined with faith, rather than any innate ability, though I suppose they might be at least partially selected for their inherent resistance to psykers.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 12:10 PM
They aren't. Essentially, given how it was described in Cain's Last Stand, the teachers and administrators of the Schola Progenium tend to shepherd their female students towards Sororitas roles (Which is why there aren't many female Stormtroopers or Commissars, for example, though they do exist), be they Orders Militant or the various non-military orders. Furthermore, Dark Heresy mentions absolutely nothing about special requirements for psychic resistance-- what's required is a strong will and strong mental fortitude, the ability to withstand their insane training regimen, as well as moral and spiritual purity.

Tyrsday
12-02-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm curious as to whether or not they have ever had Blank Iniqusitors?

Cryl
12-02-2009, 12:24 PM
It's the special guys that interest me when talking about this system. Tigurius has supposedly been in contact with the hive mind, Mephiston has conquered the red thirst (this may or may not be down to psychic ability though), now as Astartes their training is slightly different to that on an inquisition or guard psyker but those two will still sit on this scale.

The 5th edition Space Marine codex says that "should this [contacting the hive mind] be true, he [Tigurius] will have proved himself the most powerful psyker in the Imperium". Assuming this is actually fact and given that it's in a codex we really have to take it as such this puts him at Alpha level.

If the chief librarian of a standard marine chapter, albeit a first founding chapter can achieve this kind of psychic power levels what are we talking about for a Grey Knight Grand Master? Do they require such immense power as an Alpha or Beta level psyker or is the soul binding and ability to resist psychic attacks the most important part of being a GK and does this actually have a relationship to the psychic power the person can manifest?

Then what about Eldrad? His power level is certainly less obvious and more subtle than say Tigurius, Ezekiel, Mephiston or Njal but such is the nature of the Eldar compared to the Imperium. The Eldar codex states "It was Eldrad who thwarted the malefic works of the newly risen Necron gods..." (I'm assuming this means the C'tan as there's not much else it can mean) and "It was Eldrad who prevented the Hrud infestation of proud Saim-Hann..." This has got to put him at least at the same power level as Tigurius perhaps less in some ways but certainly more in others, again probably an Alpha level psyker.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 12:45 PM
A grandmaster grey knight is far beyond any librarian in psychic skill and talent. Regardless, I think you should read Dark Heresy and get an idea on just how different the various TYPES of psykers there are. Dark Hhresy mentions only five, and they vary widely in powers-- Biomancy, Pyrmancy, Divination, Telepathy, and Telekinesis.

Biomancy is the control over the body. Biomancers can regenerate wounds, create torrents of bioelectrical power that emanate from their bodies, enhance bodily functions such as strength, and so on and so forth. They shape the flesh and bodily functions to their whims, and to the most powerful biomancers, body and will are one in the same.

Divination is very much like it sounds. Diviners (Seers, etc) do more than just predict the future, they also deterimine the nature of people's souls, react with supernatural speed, locate people and items regardless of where they're hidden, strike iwth unerring accuracy and literally read items to see who is connected strongest to those items.

Pyromancy is ismilarly a bit more straightforward. They manipulate fire in all its forms, able to do htings like throw fireballs, cause fire to sputter and die out (indeed, they can cause flamers and meltaguns to cease to work), encase their body in flames, create blinding flashes of light, and, with great willpower and courage, create a fire so pure and hot that it can burn the warp itself, burning daemons as if they were mortal and burning through all armor and toughness as if it were nothing.

Telekinetics are capable of using their minds to create force, manipulate objects, and so on. This includes things such as roughly shoving someone, creating a bolt of pure energy and throwing it at someone, something intricate as pulling the pin off of a grenade in someone's pocket, or something as blunt as a psychic shield which can block lascannon shots.

Telepaths are capable of reading and controlling the minds of others. animals, humans, and xenos alike. They can also inspire their allies with courage and fearlessness, project their disembodied minds out to scout, create a sort of invisibility by wiping their existence from the minds fo those nearby, create terror and mental shrieks that distract and terrify enemies, and so on and so forth.


And these are by no means the only ones, jus the ones that Dark Heresy gives game mechanics for.

Nabterayl
12-02-2009, 12:46 PM
Grand Master is just a rank. I think it's a mistake to peg it to any kind of biological status. We can assume a grand master is a powerful hero, but heroism doesn't make you a powerful psyker - you either have the raw potential to be a powerful psyker, or you don't. As Gav Thorpe said in his "Using Space Marines" article for inquisitor, "Grey Knights are not powerful psykers as individuals, it is the group psychic ability of a squad that gives them power, focussed through the squad leader."

I take this to mean that, while some Grey Knights are powerful psykers as individuals, it's not a requirement for recruitment. Hence it's possible that a Grey Knight of merely modest psychic potential could achieve the rank of grand master, just as it's possible that a Grey Knight of immense psychic potential could be a mere squad member - we can't infer anything about a Grey Knight's individual psychic potential on the basis of his rank alone. Even on the tabletop, not all Grand Masters can match the psychic potential of a squad (i.e., you don't have to buy psychic powers for a GM, which, fluff-wise, is the same as saying that individual GM doesn't have the power).

Gotthammer
12-02-2009, 12:54 PM
Eldrad might not be the most powerful psyker, but being Eldar he'd have more control over his powers and understand how to use them better.

As for Weirdboyz, they draw their power from da waaagh, so while some would be more able to channel it better they'd need a big waagh going on to get up to Alpha levels.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 01:13 PM
But they have very deadly powerss when they do have a huge WAAAGH!. A certain weirdboy that can turn entire armies into squigs, for example.

Nabterayl
12-02-2009, 01:21 PM
We also see weirdboyz occasionally loosing lance strikes in naval combat, which, while not exactly folding a titan in half with a thought, is still pretty damn impressive. We also hear of weirdboyz navigating the warp (though perhaps in an unconventional fashion, as your average Waaagh! doesn't particularly care where it ends up), which is almost a requirement for some of the more famous Waaagh!s (e.g., if Ghazghkull didn't have weirdboyz who could navigate the warp, the odds of Third Armageddon happening would be astronomical).

Gotthammer
12-02-2009, 01:35 PM
True, but we've also seen plenty of weirdboyz' heads explode from too much waaagh-juice. My point was that they may be Alpha plus, but until there is a big enough waaagh going on they are limited. Similarly a Theta level Weirdboy getting stuck next to Ghaz would find his head exploding rather quickly.

Nabterayl
12-02-2009, 01:41 PM
That's true enough. On the other hand, correct me if I'm wrong, but the assignment scale doesn't actually say anything about control, does it? I mean, an untrained human alpha-level psyker would probably just kill himself (and possibly everyone else on his planet), right?

So leaving the control issue aside, the psychic potential of the Waaagh! seems pretty huge - at least as huge as any other race we've talked about so far, though in its own orky way.

Which actually raises an interesting question - to what extent are individual weirdboyz different from each other in actual power level? Since a weirdboy is mostly (only?) a conduit for the Waaagh! to manifest itself in particularly spectacular ways, are we justified in saying that weirdboyz are best differentiated by their ability to control* their psychic manifestations, as opposed to their individual psychic potential? If true, that would seem like a major difference between ork psykers and other races' psykers.

* By "control" I mean "withstand" as much as "choose the type of." I think the fluff is pretty clear that even the most powerful weirdboyz have much less control over how their psychic powers manifest than is typical with other psykers. On the other hand, I imagine it takes quite a bit of "control" to channel a psychic lance strike and survive the experience, even if you can't necessarily "control" your powers by deciding, "I'm going to manifest a psychic lance strike now."

OnFyre
12-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Are you saying that Tau as a race are inert, or that anyone who is inert is classed as a Tau?

Nabterayl
12-02-2009, 02:35 PM
I believe he's saying that anybody who is more inert than somebody classified "sigma" but less inert than somebody classified "psi" is classified as "tau" (the letter). Tau (the race) might very well be classified as tau (the letter), though.

Which would mean the Tau (empire) is run by tau (the race) who are tau (the letter) ;)

OnFyre
12-02-2009, 02:58 PM
Which would mean the Tau (empire) is run by tau (the race) who are tau (the letter) ;)

Heh, that's what I thought. No Tau can be a psyker, but I doubt they could make so many friends if they had blank powers.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 04:19 PM
And Tau aren't blanks. That is a capability unique to humans.


The difference between individual weirdboyz is one of experience. If a Weirdboy is very experienced, older, has a lot of battle experience, etc... then they can handle a larger amount of WAAAGH! without their heads epxloding. These are known as warp'eads IIRC.

Duke
12-02-2009, 05:41 PM
First off: great thread!

Mostly I wanted to say that hearing Melissa talk about Dark heresy really makes me wish that I had a group to play with... Oh well.

Duke

Kahoolin
12-02-2009, 05:41 PM
I have a theory for the Sisters of Battle. We know control over psychic abilities is enhanced by training, and this training often takes the form of certain formulae, so you get things like Chaos rituals, Banishment prayers, and Hexagrammic wards. Presumably these things enhance the power of psykers by focussing their minds in a certain direction to create an effect that is planned or at least expected.

Maybe Sisters of Battle are ordinary (i.e. non-psyker, non-blank) humans who through the use of group rituals are able to manifest a miraculous effect using their souls. I know various sources say that faith isn't psychic power, but even non-psyker humans have souls visible in the warp. If an average soul is incapable of psychic powers, so is a group of average souls, but that is not to say that they couldn't make something that is more than the sum of it's parts when working together in complete harmony.

Perhaps discipline, faith and prayer exercises create a state of harmony in the sister's average souls that allows them to perform great feats that don't register as psychic because none of the individuals involved are psychic. Perhaps ordinary squad sisters can only channel the soul-power as a group, perceiving it as a prayer to the Emperor that is granted, and Palatines and Canonesses have learned over many decades to channel the power as individuals, perceiving it as the Emperor's glory working through them. But it only works because they think it comes from outside them - if they thought it was coming from their own souls, and it still worked, then they would be psykers.

*Shrug* Just a fun theory.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I've always wondered, how come priests aren't Faithful? Is Faith a power only females can access for some reason?

imperialsavant
12-02-2009, 05:48 PM
Most Alpha-Plus level psykers have no allegiance save themselves, and they're forces of nature/the warp as much as anything.

SNIP*****
Meanwhile, Gunner Jurgen is obviously a much stronger Blank, as just being near him can cause some psykers to go into convulsions, and canceled out ALL psychic powers of any kind that effected anyone within his sizeable aura.

Maybe it also had something to do with his sizeable odour !:D

Kahoolin
12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
Maybe it also had something to do with his sizeable odour !:DHeh, I got the feeling Jurgen's "odour" was mostly how non-psykers felt his blankness - He made them feel queasy so they got confused and thought he smelled bad.

Nabterayl
12-02-2009, 06:08 PM
EDIT: Oh yeah, I've always wondered, how come priests aren't Faithful? Is Faith a power only females can access for some reason?
I don't think there's any reason to assume it's tied to gender. I think it's just that "priests" as a whole don't have the level of fanaticism that the Sororitas, as a whole, do. There are many more stories of corrupt, self-servicing, or just plain just-in-it-for-the-money priests than there are of Sororitas (of course, to be fair, the Imperium probably has a lot more priests than it does Sororitas, and you don't have to go through a schola progenium to be a priest - so the priesthood is not indoctrinated as early, and there are more apples to go bad).

At the same time, I don't think it would necessarily be un-fluffy to have any given priest pull off an Act of Faith. I think it's made pretty clear in Faith and Fire that the Sororitas don't think of their Acts of Faith as "abilities." It's not like sisters attend training as to how to heighten their reflexes through faith, or like a sister who is captured and disarmed can just flip a switch and become stronger than a space marine. That's just a game mechanic. The actual process of performing an Act of Faith seems to be more akin to this: a sister sees a need to do something she has no reason to believe she can do by her own power. She believes that the Emperor will provide, and she really means that - it's not shorthand for "I can do it because I must" or "I'll get lucky." She proceeds to do the impossible. But she (and likely all of her sisters) is nonetheless amazed that she pulled it off; she views it as literal divine intervention, which strikes her with awe.

None of that is logically restricted to a Sororitas, even if, for gameplay purposes, Sororitas are the only ones with an institutional depth of faith great enough to justify making it an army mechanic.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 07:05 PM
They aren't psychic to psykers, either, because Inquisitors have studied such "miracles", especially the Living Saints, and haven't found any evidence of psychic powers in them. Most notable in Living Saints, whom are studied by the Inquisition quite closely before they are ever officially declared living saints.

Just_Me
12-02-2009, 07:34 PM
First off: great thread!

Thanks, I try :D.

I have always been interested in psykers (as an extension of my interest in the Inquisition), and I loved the Assignment when I found it. I decided here to layout the Assignment in a more readable form than I have ever found it before (both for my own benefit, and as a resource for others), and figured it would be a good topic for the sadly neglected Background sub-forum.


Mostly I wanted to say that hearing Melissa talk about Dark heresy really makes me wish that I had a group to play with... Oh well.

I agree, maybe we should discuss starting a game on this forum, I think we could generate enough interest if we could figure out a way to coordinate it (I have had good luck with running RPGs over Skype) and someone to run it.


Are you saying that Tau as a race are inert, or that anyone who is inert is classed as a Tau?

The latter, though I suspect (coincidentally or not) that most Tau (species) would be classified as Tau (Assignment rating), that is to say, not Blanks by any stretch but oblivious to the Warp.

On the subject of acts of faith, I have always felt that they were (in most cases) not supernatural, and certainly not the product of their being psykers. Rather I think that they represent the extraordinary abilities that highly trained and conditioned humans are capable of through a combination of force of will and supreme confidence in their own capabilities, similar to the extra ordinary physical feats high level martial artists are capable of. The human body is actually capable (structurally) of much higher levels of performance than anyone normally uses, it is our minds that hold us back as an act of self preservation to prevent damage to our bodies, for the same reason we do not always run our cars (or computers for that matter) at maximum performance levels, doing so would be damaging. This is why people in extreme situations are capable of extraordinary physical acts that they would not be able to replicate under other circumstances. Sufficient training and conditioning can allow at least partial voluntary control over this, for example Olympic athletes and martial artists.

I have also always felt that there is a tendency to overestimate the power of some of the more visible psykers, just because they are particularly powerful doesn't make mean they must be Alpha or Beta. Zeta and Epsilon represent quite formidable powers (certainly enough to render an average human helpless one on one, or even one against many) and Delta and Gamma level are extremely powerful and rare (about one in every billion human beings). Also recall (and I should edit the original post to mention this) that levels increase exponentially, not sequentially (like the Richter scale rather than, say, the volume control on your TV), so high level psyker ratings represent massive increases in raw power over lower ones. So a very powerful Librarian might be Epsilon or Delta, possibly even Gamma, while Beta and Alpha are reserved for true psychic monstrosities, beings of spectacular power whose abilities could threaten an entire planet (in different ways depending on the nature of their powers). Look at all that went into Eisenhorn's battle to recapture Esharaddon (an Alpha level psyker), even in a weakened state he was able to fight against multiple formidable (and several of them powerfully psychic) Inquisitors and a small army of Arbites and Inquisition soldiery, puppeteering hundreds of civilians while simultaneously holding a substantial noble household in his sway and reading the minds of every being within a large radius.

None of this speaks to control or training either, an Alpha level psyker with no control would be a fearsome random force of destruction, but might potentially be thwarted by a much lower level psyker who possessed great skill and control over their abilities.

As for Orks, they are a very interesting case, they don't really work anything like most other species psykers. They do seem to have a limited ability to tap into their abilities outside of the waaagh, but for the most part their abilities seem to be dependent on the force of the waaagh energy they are channeling.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 07:42 PM
If we run a DH campaign, I'd reccomend running it over Chatzy or some other free chat room service. I couldn't do skype, no microphone, and quite frankly I'd rather not associate your characters' voices with your own. Especially not after hearing a short petite female elf in DnDO have a deep manly fat man's voice... yech. Don't want to repeat experiences like that...

Kahoolin
12-02-2009, 07:55 PM
I've played in a D&D game on a forum just like this one - the whole game was one thread, and we just spoke in character in italics, and OoC in blue writing. It was great. It relied on an honour system for reporting die rolls though, so all the participants had to be mature.

It takes a lot of dedication too - if someone is away from the game without warning for some reason it really messes it up.

Melissia
12-02-2009, 07:57 PM
It generally tends to be more fun in a chat room though, in my experience. Because it's live mostly

Just_Me
12-02-2009, 08:00 PM
If we run a DH campaign, I'd reccomend running it over Chatzy or some other free chat room service. I couldn't do skype, no microphone, and quite frankly I'd rather not associate your characters' voices with your own. Especially not after hearing a short petite female elf in DnDO have a deep manly fat man's voice... yech. Don't want to repeat experiences like that...

Yeah, I can see that, in my case it has been with people I already know in person who have since scattered to the four winds (no exaggeration there, one of them is in China), so the voices don't come as a big shock. Normal speech has the advantage of simple convenience over typing and offers greater opportunities for roleplaying, but typing means you never have to deal with the disconcerting factor of either James Earl Jones the 5' 4" wood elf lass or squeaky Mkfourteen the 250lbs half-orc barbarian :D. I think that serious thought should be given to this idea though, it's always hard to find gaming groups (particularly if you don't have a games store nearby).

Melissia
12-02-2009, 08:54 PM
Okay, start up a thread in the dark heresy section.

Just_Me
12-02-2009, 09:08 PM
Okay, start up a thread in the dark heresy section.

Your wish is my command...

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=38976#post38976

Now, back on topic people :p...

Cryl
12-03-2009, 02:19 AM
Sounds like I've just added the DH rulebook to my shopping list... and possibly the Rogue Trader one too. More background has got to be good right?

Just_Me
12-03-2009, 02:39 AM
Sounds like I've just added the DH rulebook to my shopping list... and possibly the Rogue Trader one too. More background has got to be good right?

Always...

Just_Me
12-04-2009, 09:49 PM
As a point of interest, in addition to the psychic disciplines Melissa already mentioned (those detailed in the Dark Hersey books) the Inquisition sourcebook also mentions the disciplines known as "Theosophamy" and "Daemonology." Daemonology is rather self evident, but Theosophamy requires some explanation. Theosophamy represents the subtle art of manipulating the Warp/realspace interaction. It relies on complex ritual manipulation to produce it's effects, an example of this sort of manipulation in practice might be the "Hexagramic Ritual of Reconsecration" special rule of the Grey Knights Redeemer Force Apocalypse formation (you can find it among the battle formations on the GW website).

Kahoolin
12-04-2009, 10:44 PM
Theosophamy represents the subtle art of manipulating the Warp/realspace interaction. It relies on complex ritual manipulation to produce it's effects, an example of this sort of manipulation in practice might be the "Hexagramic Ritual of Reconsecration" special rule of the Grey Knights Redeemer Force Apocalypse formation (you can find it among the battle formations on the GW website).So like opening gates to the warp? Like the bit in Ravenor Rogue where they use rituals to thin the veil between the warp and reality so Slyte can get through.

Is it one of those things like terrorist/freedom fighter distinction? Daemonology if you're thinning reality to summon Daemons, Theosophamy if you're doing it to make it easier to banish them? ;)

Just_Me
12-04-2009, 11:26 PM
Is it one of those things like terrorist/freedom fighter distinction? Daemonology if you're thinning reality to summon Daemons, Theosophamy if you're doing it to make it easier to banish them? ;)

That is actually pretty accurate, though the distinction is more subtle than that. Malleus Inquisitors (even puritan one) might study Daemonology, if only to better know how to disrupt potential summonings, while a wise heretic might study Theosophamy in order to exert better control when they summon (for instance, in the Ravenor example you mentioned it was Molotch who knew how to reseal the warp rift Slyte was entering through). I would also infer that Theosophamy would give you some ability to manipulate the Warp itself, perhaps allowing some ability to calm Warp storms or the like.