Is Fulgrim Fulgrim? or has the daemon bound with in the Lear sword taken him over?

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I'm pretty up to date on most of the Horus heresy series but for the love of me i cannot understand if Fulgrim is in control of himself or if the Daemon is?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

There was that short story where Fulgrim claims he bested the Daemon, and is now in control of his own body. Of course, we don't know if that wasn't just the daemon lying.

My take is that the "Fulgrim's possessed by a daemon" thing received a mixed reaction from the fanbase, so that short story was released to allow people to pick the version they like the best.

[daboarder]

There was that short story where Fulgrim claims he bested the Daemon, and is now in control of his own body. Of course, we don't know if that wasn't just the daemon lying.

My take is that the "Fulgrim's possessed by a daemon" thing received a mixed reaction from the fanbase, so that short story was released to allow people to pick the version they like the best.

Gets even more complicated in exterminatus, when he ascends to daemonhood.

Do you have possesed daemonic primarch's? Personally I think its more complex than that, I'd say its also irrelevant, fulgrim is possesed and isn't at the same time is my take, then another alternative is that the daemon now believes it IS fulgrim....atleast thats the vibe you get in reflection cracked

[Katharon]

I feel much more satisfied thinking that Fulgrim is trapped in his own painting, eternally looking out in horror at what has become of his legion and the universe as a result of his own stupidity.

[energongoodie]

I feel much more satisfied thinking that Fulgrim is trapped in his own painting, eternally looking out in horror at what has become of his legion and the universe as a result of his own stupidity.

+1 BOLS chum.

[Cpt Codpiece]

+1 BOLS chum.

QFT

i think the narcissism of fulgrim was what split his personality, the vain sadistic side was groomed by the demon.
then the 'normal' fulgrim wsas trapped in the painting with the act of killing the artists both during and post maraviglia, as a final act of desperation........... maybe he thought that he could be restored one day.

so simply fulgrim accepted the demon and in that acceptance split his personality.

[DWest]

Whatever is driving Fulgrim's body around definitely thinks itself Fulgrim. From Angel Exterminatus, page 184:
". . . and though its blade no longer held the shard of the creature that had shown him the darkest secrets of the galaxy . . ."

Personally, I like the idea of it being the real Fulgrim still in charge, but he got there by being more daemonic than the daemon; Fulgrim always seeks perfection, and since there's no going back, he decided to be perfectly evil, which I would say he achieved, judging by the sheer dickishness of everything he does in AE.

[Anggul]

I think it was a case of some people complaining that it wasn't him in control, so they put him back in control... maybe.

Because you know, screw the tragedy of that book (well, sort of tragedy, the galaxy is a better place without Fulgrim regardless), it's not like the entire point was that he was forever doomed to a hopeless existence. Bringing him back kind of ruined the events of Fulgrim. All of that lead-up, the betrayal, and then the intense sorrow for killing Ferrus, all rendered mute because he got back in control and sided with Chaos anyway. Not so, however, if it's as some of you guys are saying, and it's a twisted mixture of Fulgrim and daemon. That would be pretty cool.

I also found it daft that he had apparently been somehow transported from his own mind back to the painting. I get that they were going for a Dorian Grey kind of thing, but I don't see why he would have moved from his mind to the painting, it just seems tacked on.

As said above though, who knows what mixture of Fulgrim and the daemon is there now. It could be shards of both, pieced together into a not-quite-fitting jigsaw of conciousness. Crazy stuff.

[Mr Mystery]

I think it plays really well. For the most part, Deamonic possession is portrayed as happening to the weak minded, or those who actively invite it.

Fulgrim fell into neither of these categories.

As for exactly who or what Fulgrim becomes/became/remains is precisely what the HH series does best. Answers many questions, fills in a lot of blanks, whilst ensuring there are many new questions and blanks left in their place.

[Vindur]

There are bits and pieces from the "The Primarchs" short story that Fulgrim is indeed back in full control

During the scene in the crystal forest, why would Fulgrim show the deamon a dead ferrus to try and make him feel regret. The deamon had no connection to Ferrus.

At the last Black Library event in Dublin. Graham confirmed that it was always in the plans for Fulgrim to take back his body.

Basically the Deamon "captures" Fulgrim, this allows Slaanesh to corrupt him to the point of worship, so that hes powerful enough to take over again.

[Xenith]

The Daemon/Fulgrim are not literally in the painting.

Fulgrim was pushed to the recesses of the daemons mind when he allowed it to take over, the perception of the painting was how Fulgrim's Psyche communicated with the daemon. In Reflection Crack'd, the two are duelling over the psyche, and you dont find out until the end that Fulgrim has reclaimed his own mind from the daemon, when it talks to him and he gets upset looking at the painting in La Fenice.

I believe that Fulgrim is now in full control, although there is a daemon still present in his head.

I cannot remember what story dealt with daemonic possession and a marine fighting for control over his psyche after being pushed to the back. May have been HH, may have been Bleach...

[Anggul]

I think it plays really well. For the most part, Deamonic possession is portrayed as happening to the weak minded, or those who actively invite it.

Fulgrim fell into neither of these categories.

I would disagree with that, exceedingly so. Fulgrim was pathetically weak minded. He heard a voice in his mind that he had never heard before and didn't even question it. He almost immediately decided that it must be his conscience talking to him... funny how it had kept quiet all that time. The fact that he couldn't even resist taking the sword in the first place is testament to his weakness of will.

We know that Fulgrim had a severe inferiority complex due to the genetic flaw that causes his first lot of marines to die horribly. That's what made him so weak-willed, he was so obsessed with proving himself the best that it consumed him and although he put on a show and was still as strong and powerful as a primarch should be, inside he was weak.

That's the thing with the primarchs. They're brave and powerful due to how they were created, but they grew up on various planets without the guidance of the Emperor and their personalities were greatly moulded by that. Most of them are actually less mentally strong than Space Marines. Space Marines are conditioned from a young age, the Primarchs grew up wild and free, not rigorously trained like the Space Marines were. It's this weakness of mind in a body of great power that made the Horus Heresy possible. Can you imagine the focussed, distrustful minds of Marines such as Lysander or Calgar falling for the lies of Lorgar and Erebus? Not likely. The primarchs just weren't conditioned for it, everyone just assumed that because they were so powerful, they couldn't be tricked or twisted, which as we know is far from the case.

I agree with your second point though, it's great that he's probably a twisted abomination formed from the shards of both Fulgrim and the daemon, it keeps you wondering.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

There is a important fact that always seems to be ignored. Fulgrim was possessed by a daemon in the Laeran sword yes but this is not the only daemon weapon he has used. He also was given the Kinebrach blade anathema that wounded Horus. It is my theory that the Deamon that was in control of his body was kicked out by the daemon that was in the Anathema. The Laeran blade was given to Lucius and i think it took over his body when the deamon was kicked out of Fulgrim.