Ew, you are getting Warmachine in my 40k

[Tepogue]

I have played GW games for a long time, then like most I took a break and came back into the darkness. When I came back it seemed that the group I joined had a few oddities. However, I just accepted these since I could not trace where they came from. Now fast forward a few years and I seem to have found the root of these oddities: Warmachine/Hordes.

Here are a few examples:

Space Marine Drop pod lands, Grey Hunter squad pops out. I have squads A & B, A is closer than B. The Space Wolf players nominates to fire on Squad B, I have no issues with the normal weapons, its the template weapons that cause issues. Space Wolf shoots a flamer aiming at a member of Squad B but really he's maximising the number of models in squad A. This puzzled me, and when questioned the local rules guy sided with the Space Wolf. Now looking at the WM/H rulebooks I see this clearly shown in their spray attacks diagram.

Cover save field effects - By these I'm meaning the Kustom Force Field, the Venomthrope cloud and even the Dark Angel power field, though the last is an invulnerable save I think. Under 6th Edition rules, cover saves are model by model basis. Meaning I have 10 orks, 5 of which are in the open and 5 of which are in a crater, then only the 5 in the crater get cover saves. However the general concensus is that if even 1 Ork was in range of a Kustom Force Field, then the entire Ork mob gets cover saves. When I asked the local rules guy, the words he said back to me were, "The field doesn't say the mob has to be completely within 6 in." He made a distinction between "within" and "completely within" Puzzled, I accept how the group plays. Now however reading the WM/H rule books, I see that system makes the distinction clear, and that "within" and "completely within" are different.

I know cross gaming rule confusion carries over. I know I referred to hills as level 1 or level 2 hills, from Battletech for years after I quit playing Battletech. Anyone else experience this?

[DWest]

Actually, both of the examples you mentioned have been standard issue in 40k since at least 2008:
-Stupid Template Tricks (including your shoot at B to actually hit A, and even better, putting your own guys in the way to force the template to fire at a specific angle) were written up as a front-page article here on BOLS, around the time the new Dark Eldar were released.
-Auras (KFF, Venomthrope, Sanguinary Priests, and the like) have, as far as I know, always extended to all models of a unit so long as at least one is in the radius, reason being it would be unfair to force people to bunch their models up in a tight pack in a game with lots of blast weapons.

[Charistoph]

-Auras (KFF, Venomthrope, Sanguinary Priests, and the like) have, as far as I know, always extended to all models of a unit so long as at least one is in the radius, reason being it would be unfair to force people to bunch their models up in a tight pack in a game with lots of blast weapons.

Auras depend on how the rules for them are written (there is no Aura special rule in the BRB). If they specify that if "a unit with one model is within its affect", then it affects all in the unit. If the rule just says "any models within x inches" than its only for those models.

I don't see how it's so difficult to understand.

[DWest]

All of the listed examples refer to "units" within range, rather than "models"; the only case I found where a rule specifically calls for models to be in range is Pedro Kantor's +1 attack bonus.

[chicop76]

Yes 40k is using more rules benchmarked from Warmachine every edition. Tlos stems from Warmachine for starters.

[daboarder]

Most of these rules supposedly lifted from warmachine were either already in 40k for years (flamer placement, auras) or a re old 40k rules that have been brought back (overwatch)

[ElectricPaladin]

If your opponents are becoming smarter 40k players by using tactics they learned in other games, maybe instead of whining about it, you should man up and experiment with some other games yourself. Who knows what you might learn? :D

[Nabterayl]

Under 6th Edition rules, cover saves are model by model basis.
Important nuance - in 6th edition, we determine whether models are in cover, not units. However, being in cover is only one way to get a cover save - other ways of getting a cover save (for example, a kustom force field) can still apply to whole units.

[Xenith]

All of these rules have been in 40k for years and years, at least since 1999 when I started.

Point flamer at unit farther away, catch closer unit. The only problem here is that you said your opponent moved the template to maximise hits on the nearest unit - that is illegal, you have to place them template to maximise hits on the target unit.

6" bubbles were present in 3rd ed space marine codexes for things like the Narthecium, sacred standard etc.

[AlexRae]

All of these rules have been in 40k for years and years, at least since 1999 when I started.

Point flamer at unit farther away, catch closer unit. The only problem here is that you said your opponent moved the template to maximise hits on the nearest unit - that is illegal, you have to place them template to maximise hits on the target unit.

Bolded the most important part.

All of these issues are easily resolved by reading the rules. Never ask people to tell you the rules, ask them to show you. Then read them through very clearly. And if they reference any other rule... ask them to show you that as well.

[Bob821]

I still find my self using rules from 5th. Mostly because I play blood angels and miss 5th addition more than I would miss an arm!

[chicop76]

Most of these rules supposedly lifted from warmachine were either already in 40k for years (flamer placement, auras) or a re old 40k rules that have been brought back (overwatch)

I'll buy that if it is 1st and 2nd edition rules. I know about overwatch due to space hulk. However rules like hull points for example seem to come from Warmachine for example. Tlos unless it's a 1st or 2nd edition rule I would say it's from Warmachine. Since I started in 3rd I am not familiar with 1st and 2nd. Well I really started playing and buying in 3rd. I technically been playing since 1st, but I was mainly playing with 3 units like every 6 months which really doesn't count.