Worst sportsmanship EVER and the meltdown of Lost Vyper

[Lost Vyper]

Okay...

Let´s just say yesterdays FULL day of gaming got a nasty ending. We had been playing from 9 am to approx 7 pm and we had a Triple Threat -match going on with one of our FLGC -original missions. The mission is called Assassins and it´s a kill point mission, but in the beginning we throw two dice and they´ll tell which units give KP´s. It was HQ´s worth 3p (4 if killed in challenge) and Elites 1p and the rest were just cannon fodder, no points. Also, in the beginning or EVERY turn, we throw dice, to see which order we play that turn. Our Space Wolves player was really stricken with bad luck, he had 4 HQ´s. I had one and BA player one plus one Elite. In this point, we should have chosen another mission, but everybody was game, so on we went. I filmed a BATREP, but i´m still pissed off what happened in the end of round four when the game was called to an end, so there might not be a BATREP from that match...

So round four and i was in lead with 9p, SW had 7 (and couldn´t win anymore) and BA had 3...BA was gunning for the two remaining HQ´s...gunned down one fair and square. Second SW HQ was down to one wound and had two Grey Hunters with him. Normally, you would Look Out Sir the remaining ONE Lascannon wound...no, he just opted to take it to the HQ, with only 5+ Invl. save and got killed...that´s how the BA player "WON" with 10 points. It would have been ok for me, if he LOS`d the wounds and on the NEXT turn, BA player had gone before me and killed him then, fine, but NOOOOOO...we called the game, but later i realized, that i had a (very slim) possibility to wipe BA player off the board, but hey, when you blow a fuse(box), that´s how it goes...

I. HAVE. NEVER. BEEN. THAT. PISSED OFF. (playing 40K that is)...

if i´m losing a game, i´m not really into it anymore, but i still PLAY IT TO THE END (if a Triple Threat Match) or forfeit, but geez, i still have some sportsmanship...

- Melted Vyper

[Popsical]

Honestly, move on and forget it. My group totally disintegrated due to petty rivalry caused by similar events that youve just had.
If it devolves into a spite filled oneupmanship group then the fun will be gone for good.
Have another game soon and enjoy it, and dont mention that game again.
Sure it pissed you off, but its not worth the aggro move on.

[rogueaccount]

I'm confused...are you saying the guy who took the lascannon to the chin was being a poor sportsman?

[Lost Vyper]

Yeah, thank the lord, that he apologized later, so my cooling down is already a steady process. We have so little group, who play actively, that this ain´t gonna jeopardize that...

[DarkLink]

Soooo... what exactly pissed you off? Losing because you were playing a silly mission?

[Popsical]

The damage done to my group by one silly game led to people turning up to every alledged friendly games with smack down lists.
It got to the point where we travelled 200 miles to warhammer world for a fun days gaming, instead one player had a list that everyone else had tailored theres to beat, and it became an expensive waste of time. The whole episode snowballed out of control fast. Now we dont game as a group anymore.

[Lost Vyper]

Soooo... what exactly pissed you off? Losing because you were playing a silly mission?

A guy who didn´t bother to play it to the end --> GIVING away the match. Doesn´t anyone read these thoroughly? Except Popsical? And the mission isn´t silly, normally we don´t play it in Triple Threat -matches and it is more balanced then. Am i the only one, who gets bored with the same 6 BRB missions?

[lattd]

How did he get 10 points? if he was on 3 and killed 2 in shooting then he could only have got 9 points? it was a draw??

[Mr Mystery]

Devils advocate time.....

The Space Woof player probably wasn't all that interested in the game overall, as from the offset he was on the backfoot.

Could be he had genuinely disengaged to the point where he forgot 'Look out Sir' existed.

From your description, it's impossible to know.

[knas ser]

I had to read that a couple of times before I got why you were pissed off (other than a set of scenario rules that would drive a monk beserk). If I'm reading this right, you're saying the Space Wolf player deliberately let his HQ be killed? (Or you're angry because he was thick enough to let it happen?). Did he do this because he was giving up or to get at you or something? Apologies for not quite getting it - I'm just a little unclear on it.

EDIT: Just to note, I normally enjoy your batreps, but perhaps this one should be skipped... Hope no damage done to friendships.

[Skullchewer]

Pretty far from what I would describe as the worst sportsmanship EVER, especially considering that getting so angry about a game would generally be described as very poor sportsmanship.
Was it a dick move? Possibly. Or maybe he just forgot to LOS. Either way, not worth getting so worked up about.

[Wildeybeast]

Yeah, like the last two posters, I'm keen to know why the space wolves player handed the game to the ba player. Either he was so bored he just wanted it to be over, or for some reason he didn't want you to win. You haven't said that you did anything to annoy him, so I'm guessing the former. By your own admission, you probably shouldn't have played that game when you realised he was stuffed from the off, so don't be too hard on him. Equally, he should have played properly having agreed to do so. Lessons for everyone to learn there; do so and then forget about it.

[Lost Vyper]

Okay, now there´s some good discussion going on...

- First, BA got ten points from HQ (3) + HQ (3) + Slay The Warlord (1) + the 3p he already had...
- Second, yep, maybe " the most dick move ever " would have been proper topic, i stand corrected...
- Third, he KNEW what he was doing, maybe he was pissed and/or bored, but there was ways to block us from getting more points still.
He brought out the whole team out from the Landraider, maybe he should have left the Battle Leader inside, he didn´t contribute much on the shooting --> he got shot in the next players turn to kingdom come. And the LOS´s on the other HQ. THEN, we would have went to turn 5 and it would have been a whole new ball game...

This is the last ventilation about the matter, i appreciate the advised considering the gaming groups future, rest assured, there´s no problem on that front, we´ll keep on throwing those dice!!

I´ll post another BATREP (from the morning´s game :) ) which had Inqvisition going against pure Eldar -list with a whopping 3100p!!! I´, hoping to get it in youtube today/tomorrow...

Thanks,

Lost Vyper

[DarkLink]

If the SW player was being super whiny all game or something, I could see where you're coming from, but just a 'he forgot LOS and handed my opponent the game' is not bad sportsmanship, not on his part anyways.

[Bigred]

See, now here is the issue I've seen Lost Vyper.

We've all been in the situation of being on turn 4 and KNOWING we are going to lose.

I've seen players who get totally pissed if I concede early (like you felt) because they feel it is quitting.

BUT

I've seen other players who get totally pissed if I DON"T concede early because I am wasting both player's time and we can both move on and get in more games.

So for the player who is losing, he's already feeling crappy and now doesn't know what to do.

Now in Austin the standard procedure is the player who is kicking *** will politely ask the player being pummeled whether he wants to call it, or play it out and let the player on the losing side decide. It lets the winning player offer a way out of a non-fun game with grace, and lets the losing player save face and not feel trapped needlessly.

-Larry

[Popsical]

I know where your coming from vyper.
You had a shot at winning the game. A game all 3 of you signed up for knowing one of you was at an disadvantage. You play the mission to its climax where its taken up the better part of your gaming time. Then the guy who new from the start he had a disadvantage decides to give the game away in a way that leaves you thinking "wtf?". Yeah it can seem like hes saying something to you without words.
Sometimes the game can really suck.

Gaming groups are really tricky to find, move swiftly along, dont brood on it, and make sure you all crack on with a few fun games.

[SaveModifier]

So he's a bad sportsman because he basically had to choose who won the game and decided to do it on a dice roll of 5+ rather than a 2+? maybe that just seemed fairer to him, it seems fairer to me. Maybe you were more of a dick through out the rest of the game?

[Popsical]

Sometimes you just get the right hump with the manner in which games pan out and you vent your spleen.
Vyper's just let it all out in the OP. Now hes calmed down. Weve all been there.

[FTGT]

I get the rage, and I'm glad it's not lasting. I think generally three player games are a bad idea unless they're clearly silly. There's too much possibility for feeling like the two other players are ganging up and taking sides against you. Of course, it sounds like you have a pretty established method for 3-player games, so good work on that.

[dirkspair]

and silly stuff like this makes it to my FB page?

[nexus-six]

and silly stuff like this makes it to my FB page?

THIS. This SO much.

[DocSavage]

IMO it comes down to his motivation. If he *knew* he could take the LOS and didn't, then why? Was he getting back at you for something else (as Wildeybeast said). I know some people "play to the fluff" but this doesn't sound like it. If it was a "friendly game", maybe he did it just to yank your chain (knowing it would keep you from winning) and didn't realize how pissed you would get. Obviously it pushed your button.

[tcraigen]

A guy who didn´t bother to play it to the end --> GIVING away the match. Doesn´t anyone read these thoroughly? Except Popsical? And the mission isn´t silly, normally we don´t play it in Triple Threat -matches and it is more balanced then. Am i the only one, who gets bored with the same 6 BRB missions?

I read it 3 times and was still confused as to what there was to be mad about. He lost because of a bad choice and then forfeit? Was it you or him that had the melt down because that wasn't clear at all. Also if finishing the game was such a big deal, you should have just posed the option of you vs the BA to name the winner and just removed the other force completely. Forcing people to play to the end I find usually just makes things worse if theyre mentally done with it all. They get pissy and argue everything, it probably saved you a bigger head ache in the end.

[Wildeybeast]

See, now here is the issue I've seen Lost Vyper.

We've all been in the situation of being on turn 4 and KNOWING we are going to lose.

I've seen players who get totally pissed if I concede early (like you felt) because they feel it is quitting.

BUT

I've seen other players who get totally pissed if I DON"T concede early because I am wasting both player's time and we can both move on and get in more games.

So for the player who is losing, he's already feeling crappy and now doesn't know what to do.

Now in Austin the standard procedure is the player who is kicking *** will politely ask the player being pummeled whether he wants to call it, or play it out and let the player on the losing side decide. It lets the winning player offer a way out of a non-fun game with grace, and lets the losing player save face and not feel trapped needlessly.

-Larry

See in my group it is usually the other way round. We seem to have an unspoken code that the losing player will offer to concede the game or play on as the winner desires. Same end result really, just a different emphasis. This way round the losing player doesn't look like a quitter and the winner isn't pressuring them to concede where they may not want to.

[euansmith]

If I'd been playing 40k for 10 hours I would have been begging for death no matter how the game was going. You appear to have been averaging one turn per 2.5 hours of play; that sounds like torture :D

[daboarder]

To me it sounds like this,

You played a 3 players game, one of those players found himself in a position to decide who won or losed, and you problem is that he didn't choose you?

Dude its a 3 players game thats half the damned point.

honestly the only bad sportsmanship I see here is you.

[DarkLink]

Unless there's more to the situation that's not being mentioned, then that's pretty much what I've been thinking, too.

[Skullchewer]

and silly stuff like this makes it to my FB page?
Indeed.

[The Dave]

To me it sounds like this,

You played a 3 players game, one of those players found himself in a position to decide who won or losed, and you problem is that he didn't choose you?

Dude its a 3 players game thats half the damned point.

honestly the only bad sportsmanship I see here is you.

In trying to read the OP's argument about how the SW player chose to let the BA player win, I came to the same conclusion. That has nothing to do with sportsmanship, and it is not even close to "worst sportsmanship EVER". We had a guy in our club back in the 90's that threw an old, metal Thunderhawk (not Epic, the old FW ones were PEWTER!) directly at another player because of the game they were playing. Blood loss, stitches, etc were involved. This is just someone whining about a broken non-book mission, which leads me to:


Quote Originally Posted by dirkspair: and silly stuff like this makes it to my FB page?/quote

Indeed.

Yeah, the OP's post wasn't worth turning into a FB post IMO. :/

[daboarder]

Unless there's more to the situation that's not being mentioned, then that's pretty much what I've been thinking, too.

indeed a person should always be willing to change their hypothesis as new information is supplied (or even not form a hypothesis until all information is supplied but personally I find that impractical in most situations.)

[Muninwing]

Worst sportsmanship ever implies that this is a sportsmanship issue in the first place. Biggest dick move ever implies that it was a serious dick move.

Was there a prize? Was there money on it? Was someone really in need of a win, in order to keep his ego from deflating?

Or was it a 3-way game... An automatically-biased system that got further bollixed by random mission rolls, and you got worked up because you didn't win?

I saw someone end a summer campaign by forcing a team-up with the leader, and all but that one person (who should have won) split the prize money, including that almost-winner's partner (who threw the game).

I saw someone smash a well-painted FW greater daemon over a bad due roll.

I saw a ton of other examples. And many of them were caused by people who took the game FAR too seriously and felt like they got robbed. Just like the OP.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

i once sold my soul to keep rome in a board game :) does that make me evil? does that make me a horrible sportsman? a few weeks ago tau beat me 2x in a row in the same day the 2nd game i conceeded on turn 2 after my army lay in ruin... does that make me a poor sport? some times games are fun and some days they are not. maybe the wolf player just got bored or he was only playing because thats what a good friend does even when he doesnt want to do it.

I remember a few years back we did orks vs guard in a campaign the ork player ( me and a friend) crushed the imperials game after game. even when hey used a warhound titan ontop of their points we crushed them.... my wazdakka has a titan kill.... we can leave it at that. but i have no problem admitting that after kicking their butts for months when we had a final large scale appocolypse game to determine if we took the last hive city we threw it. have you ever tried to throw a game? its not that hard atleast its not easy to do when you don't want your buddies to know that you did it. One friend knows he figured it out our other buddy remains oblivious...

[Jon Cox]

Holy Mother of Khorne Vyper, you had a hissy fit over that? Wow, you're the one being unsportsmanlike by blowing up the game. You feel the Wolf player handed the win to the BA player? Maybe you should have figured out a way for him to bow out before that. But to get all uppity and just end the game? Wow. If someone pulled that crap in my group they would not be asked back.

[Severian]

Really? you are upset because another player failed to play in a manner that you required (even though it was perfectly legal) so you could win the game? Nobody owes you a win. he can "look out sir" all day or not as he chooses. It is his turn, his army and his decision.

Frankly the only questionable sportsmanship here is you getting your nose out of joint about it.

[TimmyPowerGamer]

After 10 hours playing, maybe he forgot to LoS; after all nobody is perfect. You just need to chalk it up to experience and get on with it. With absolutely nothing at stake (apart from bragging rights), it is just a game after all.

[Dimitrios]

I feel your pain, and the pain of many others here. A month or so ago our gaming group met to have our "traditional" Warhammer Weekend. The group is made up of 4 people (a gamer, a painter, a collector and a fluff wizard) each who bring a different element to the game. It's been happening for a while now but over the past few years our games have become increasingly competitive and no fun at all. The gamer will refuse to play unless he knows he can win and often fields overpowered tournament lists. The painter plays any old list but became frustrated and stopped playing as she couldn't win. The collector started using stronger and stronger lists to compete and I have always played the thing that I feel is fluffier.

The last weekend we played was my last as u had a melt down fueled by the growing frustration of my own and the lack of fun these games brought. Everyone had fielded hugely tailored overpowered lists, Kaiden with special characters and powerful combos. The gamer of the group refused to play as people now had lists that could beat his and I brought my new toys to the table.

After turn 2 of the first game of the weekend I realised that I was being soundly owned but it want in a fun way. There was a sense if seriousness and competition that sucked the joy out of the room and I quickly lost my sense of humour and my temper flared. The weekend went in and it came to a point were I completely melted down and we have not spoken or gamed since.

When a group devolves into mini tournaments and powerful list building and becomes less about meeting up to play games with our cool toys it's never worth it. We all have enough stress in our lives that forcing yourself to play tournaments 24/7 and have no fun isn't worth it. It's like sitting down to play cards and that "one friend" starts taking it all way to seriously.

Life is too short.

[Mr Mystery]

With three way games, there's more than just win/lose.

Between two players, it's much harder to walk away feeling you've been cheated out of a well earned win situation, even when the dice turn on you.

But with three players? In the situation described, it seems a case of the Space Woof player arguably choosing the winner by not applying a rule. And that sucks for the player who all game had used cunning and tactics and that to get into the best position.

Like a less extreme version of being told at a job interview 'well, you're certainly the best qualified person we've seen for this position, and you certainly have oodles of experience. Sadly, I'm interviewing Jeff next. Jeff might be an incompetent boob who has lead his past three employers squarely into liquidation, but then, we were at Eton together, so I'm afraid you've wasted your time, LOL!'

[Popsical]

I feel your pain, and the pain of many others here. A month or so ago our gaming group met to have our "traditional" Warhammer Weekend. The group is made up of 4 people (a gamer, a painter, a collector and a fluff wizard) each who bring a different element to the game. It's been happening for a while now but over the past few years our games have become increasingly competitive and no fun at all. The gamer will refuse to play unless he knows he can win and often fields overpowered tournament lists. The painter plays any old list but became frustrated and stopped playing as she couldn't win. The collector started using stronger and stronger lists to compete and I have always played the thing that I feel is fluffier.

The last weekend we played was my last as u had a melt down fueled by the growing frustration of my own and the lack of fun these games brought. Everyone had fielded hugely tailored overpowered lists, Kaiden with special characters and powerful combos. The gamer of the group refused to play as people now had lists that could beat his and I brought my new toys to the table.

After turn 2 of the first game of the weekend I realised that I was being soundly owned but it want in a fun way. There was a sense if seriousness and competition that sucked the joy out of the room and I quickly lost my sense of humour and my temper flared. The weekend went in and it came to a point were I completely melted down and we have not spoken or gamed since.

When a group devolves into mini tournaments and powerful list building and becomes less about meeting up to play games with our cool toys it's never worth it. We all have enough stress in our lives that forcing yourself to play tournaments 24/7 and have no fun isn't worth it. It's like sitting down to play cards and that "one friend" starts taking it all way to seriously.

Life is too short.

This is pretty much my old group to a tee. We had a gamer, a casual guy, a collector and me a fluff player.
The gamer played elsewhere in addition to tournies and thus became way better at the game plus used ppwer builds. He didnt need to but just liked his way of kerb stomping.
The casual pretty much lost every game but was there for social reasons.
The collector lost almost everygame and started to wonder why he bothered buying stuff.
And i lost every game because my lists would use units that were fluffy not powered up and no duplication.
The days would be at the collectors gaff and he would lose interest after one stomping and then it would devolve from there.
It became most unenjoyable and ended badly.
I left the group because there was no fluff involved and for me thats the whole bag.
The other three still meet occasionally as the collector and casual are closet 40kers and want to keep it that way.
The collector still moans that he loses pretty much every game.
Oddly masochistic lol.

[Xenith]

Wow. Lost Viper.

I'd thought you seemed ok, but from reading this, I don't think I'd like to play you.

It's a game. Your friend screwed you over to let the player in 3rd come first. A surprise result. And there was nothing you could do about it. Apparently your arrogance thinking that you had the game in the bag was unfounded, and the SW player needed to teach you a thing or two?


The SW player was a better sportsman than you. They let the player that was last, come first. Which is funny.

Be ashamed.

[Popsical]

Dont be ashamed thats daft. Vyper has already calmed down and has looked at it from a new view point. We all get annoyed sometimes and all of us learn from moments like this (or should), trick is to move on and forget about it.

[Deadlift]

Wow. Lost Viper.

I'd thought you seemed ok, but from reading this, I don't think I'd like to play you.

It's a game. Your friend screwed you over to let the player in 3rd come first. A surprise result. And there was nothing you could do about it. Apparently your arrogance thinking that you had the game in the bag was unfounded, and the SW player needed to teach you a thing or two?


The SW player was a better sportsman than you. They let the player that was last, come first. Which is funny.

Be ashamed.

That's a bit rough mate and totally uncalled for. Vypers come here for our thoughts on how the game panned out. Did he over react ? Yes and he's admitted that, and it's been talked about over 4 pages. But I don't think he should be "ashamed" as you put it. If I had been playing 10 hrs I'd been quite invested in the result of the game too. It's admirable that he put the question here in the 1st place. Me it's just toy soldiers. The results not so important as the fun of the game. I think many players lose sight of that.

[Xenith]

Yea, I agree my last post was a little harsh.

It is good that Vyper posted about the experience, but I wonder if he was starting to take the game too seriously. From his initial few responses, he was still angry days later, which is not on.

If he's taken from the experience that he has no right to get pissy with his friends over being d*cked over in a scenario that seems to be about d*cking over people, then all is good, and I apologise.

I don't know if his thinking has developed since then, but in his last post (#13) he still seems to be blaming the other player, and can not see that it is him who is at fault.

Myself? I'd have wailed in anguish at victory being snatched from me then laughed, then run my models to the death site as fast as possible to check he was really dead.

If I'd done what he did and reacted to the extent that I had to talk about it with my opponents after the game, then yes, I would be ashamed.

"Yeah, thank the lord, that he apologized later, so my cooling down is already a steady process. "

Not calming down until your opponent apologises for playing the game smart. It's just not on.

Deadlift: From what I've read, Vyper hasn't admitted that he has over-reacted, and is still annoyed. He just said that he isn't going to vent about it anymore, which is probably more unhealthy.

[Skullchewer]

I reckon this thread has run its course. Vyper over reacted, he's been roasted for it enough.