White Dwarf December 2013 [Archive] - BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

Mr Mystery

11-27-2013, 11:44 AM

So it turns out that GW haven't done something incredibly daft and missed out on the Hobbit buzz by delaying them a month to fit in Tyranids for no apparent reason. Who'd have thought it?

You're not suggesting they're actually a competently run, market dominant multinational are you? Because that bloke on the interwebs (you know the one. Lives at home, no actual experience running any sort of business, avant garde approach to personal hygiene, sense of entitlement eclipsed only by belly girth) said they're run by a bunch of idiots who couldn't find their arse with both hands and a map. And surely he knows what he's on about....

Wildeybeast

11-27-2013, 11:56 AM

I was more pointing out how much utter tosh gets swilled around on the internet rumour mill and how people would rather believe that than use common sense and established patterns to calmly think about what might be likely to happen. But now you mention it, I also mean what you said as well.

Edit: also thanks to the leaker for the pics

Erik Setzer

11-27-2013, 12:28 PM

So it turns out that GW haven't done something incredibly daft and missed out on the Hobbit buzz by delaying them a month to fit in Tyranids for no apparent reason. Who'd have thought it?

They didn't need to delay, necessarily. And "Hobbit buzz" is only good for so much. In this town, Hobbit pretty much isn't played and LOTR barely gets any notice, whereas there are a LOT of Tyranid players and people wanting to get into Tyranids and waiting for the new book. If they'd come out this month, it'd be one more sure-seller for the holiday season. As it is, Hobbit stuff tends to just sit on the shelves.

Al Shut

11-27-2013, 12:54 PM

Wait a minute! The escalation book is in English?

Oh well another 40 bucks saved:mad:

Skullchewer

11-27-2013, 12:55 PM

avant garde approach to personal hygiene

This made me chuckle.

Anurien

11-27-2013, 01:56 PM

Avant Guarde approach to personal hygiene?

You are not serious?

That implies he knows about personal hygiene. I figured he just thought that was how he 'friends' greeted his imaginary girlfriend...

Cpt Codpiece

11-27-2013, 02:22 PM

me dont cares abouts stinking hobbitsis!

we wantses tyranidses and spesh maurineses!

lattd

11-27-2013, 02:25 PM

All the people complaining about hobbit stuff, in my group of forty we play hobbit more than 40k and fantasy combined.... The new rangers look nice not sure about the guard or thranduil..

Cpt Codpiece

11-27-2013, 02:29 PM

All the people complaining about hobbit stuff, in my group of forty we play hobbit more than 40k and fantasy combined.... The new rangers look nice not sure about the guard or thranduil..

so you guys are the ones to blame :) the one group who tolerates that BS :)

honestly i thought GW had moved on from mediocre perry twins sculpts for any main line....... seems like they are the only guys willing to touch LOTR on a sculpting POV..... probably for the better for us consumers though.

Kyban

11-27-2013, 02:44 PM

I really like the models but no one plays in my area so I've been looking at ways of adding them to 40k as counts as and conversions.

lattd

11-27-2013, 02:56 PM

Piotr Fr

11-27-2013, 03:01 PM

WOW! It is like a one year since last time there was something hobbit like in WD? Wonder why... ;)

flekkzo

11-27-2013, 03:06 PM

The perry twins do some great historical models just not fantasy models :/ still the ruleset was really tight as you had a base stat line and changing it added to or subtracted from points cost. So despite its hate it was probably the most balanced GW game.

The problem with LoTR and The Hobbit isn't the rules, it's the setting. It's a great setting for a board game, but a table top next to 40k and Fantasy? It lacks the personal touch (about 15 armies per game in both 40k/Fantasy with a massive amount of personalization possible), variation (good vs evil, not 15 factions), and has a very rigid storyline. It's just not appealing to a lot of tabletop gamers that otherwise buy GW games.

I think the problem is the target audience. I haven't seen any sales, but if it sells well and a lot of people are playing it, they aren't noisy about it (sans the one guy above me letting us know that they play it:)). Me, I haven't even watched the new movies. Three giant action movies out of a tiny little book?

Wildeybeast

11-27-2013, 03:14 PM

They didn't need to delay, necessarily. And "Hobbit buzz" is only good for so much. In this town, Hobbit pretty much isn't played and LOTR barely gets any notice, whereas there are a LOT of Tyranid players and people wanting to get into Tyranids and waiting for the new book. If they'd come out this month, it'd be one more sure-seller for the holiday season. As it is, Hobbit stuff tends to just sit on the shelves.

So by that logic, Tyranids are a sure fire seller whatever month they release them in, where Hobbit releases will struggle and so it is best to capitalise on the excitement of the film to boost those sales. Which is what they have done and what I said they would do all along because it is common sense. They would never do two big releases in the same month as it reduces sales on both releases and there's probably some contractual agreement which stops them putting out anything else alongside big hobbit releases.

Cpt Codpiece

11-27-2013, 03:19 PM

The perry twins do some great historical models just not fantasy models :/ still the ruleset was really tight as you had a base stat line and changing it added to or subtracted from points cost. So despite its hate it was probably the most balanced GW game.

yeah i agree, their historic setting stuff is great, very personal (i know the guys are LARPers, and it shows in their work), but i dont think they can pull off the fantasy setting. their halflings and empire are very characterful and add levity to the system in a subtle comedic sense..... i just dont get the right feel from the models.

the LOTR models are reasonably detailed and do look the part..... but like flekkzo said, the setting is already so vast and well defined, there is no real scope for alternate events or what ifs, that a game situation presents.

schoon

11-27-2013, 03:37 PM

To be honest, my personal decision on whether to acquire these or not will be based upon the amount of fluff included, where all rules and miniatures pictures equals 0% and at least half background, timeline, history, units etc equals 100%.

We shall see.

RGilbert26

11-27-2013, 05:02 PM

Finally.
No Tyranids

We have the rest of December for them to be released (much like second half of Dark Elves).

ONIAgent150

11-27-2013, 05:26 PM

I'm still excited for both supplements but beyond disappointed in that cover art for Escalation, especially after the INCREDIBLE art on the cover of the latest Apocalypse book and everything by Kevin Chin.

Cap'nSmurfs

11-27-2013, 06:20 PM

The second half of Dark Elves were released the *following month* as part of the normal schedule. If that's any indication, then Tyranids might follow in January.

They were never coming this month. The Hobbit, guys. The Hobbit.

Also, there wasn't a mystery box, either, was there? I said I'd laugh, so this is me laughing. Ha ha ha.

Vangrail

11-28-2013, 01:44 AM

No nids? Lame. And a even bigger hit no Beorn in bear mode what the hell

Mr Mystery

11-28-2013, 03:05 AM

No nids? Lame. And a even bigger hit no Beorn in bear mode what the hell

Yet, and....erm.....yet!

If Beorn doesn't go Hairybeary in the film, there won't be a model.

If he does, it will likely be released soon.

Herzlos

11-28-2013, 03:54 AM

All the people complaining about hobbit stuff, in my group of forty we play hobbit more than 40k and fantasy combined.... The new rangers look nice not sure about the guard or thranduil..

Almost no-one plays WHF/40K at my club, either :p

I do hear that The Hobbit/LOTR is a decent game, I just can't justify the entry price compared to everything else on the market.

Tzeentch's Dark Agent

11-28-2013, 04:39 AM

I saw these new Elves and was like "well, that made my mind up!"

Also, the bigger disappointment is the lack of Thranduil on a Stag

Mr Mystery

11-28-2013, 05:15 AM

Almost no-one plays WHF/40K at my club, either :p

I do hear that The Hobbit/LOTR is a decent game, I just can't justify the entry price compared to everything else on the market.

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?

Hobbit is dead cheap to get into.

One box plastic guys, and a clampack command. Boof. One battle ready force right there!

lattd

11-28-2013, 05:53 AM

All you need is 500 points to have a good game and with the requirement to have a hero model per 12 miniatures thats not a lot seeing as a basic hero is 40+ points. The hobbit box is a really good intro, although you need more goblins if you want to expand that side of the army.

Mr Mystery

11-28-2013, 07:26 AM

Goblins, backed up by a Troll or two. Brilliant little force. Gobbos supply mucho attacko, Trolls provides high fight value, and some decent clobbering.

Rules are beautiful too. Charge into combat, and then split up the combats as evenly as possible (so if I charge a blob of three with twelve guys, I'd have to divvy it up into 4:1 combats, rather than gank one dude with 10:1). Total up the attacks for each side, and roll that many dice. Highest dice wins, with highest Fight value determining draws. Winner then rolls to wound (strength v defence) with each attack. Heroes can use Might to alter the results, until it's spent (one alteration = one might point).

People really need to give The Hobbit a decent chance before passing judgement. LotR got a bum rap mainly due to the rather lack lustre Fellowship of the Ring box, which came with Goblins, and Warriors of the Last Alliance, a combination not actually seen in the film. The game itself is pretty awesome!

Herzlos

11-28-2013, 07:41 AM

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?

Hobbit is dead cheap to get into.

One box plastic guys, and a clampack command. Boof. One battle ready force right there!

Using your example of Goblins backed up with Trolls thats £80 for figures, without rules (Goblin Warriors @ £20, 3 trolls @ £50 and Goblin Captain @ £10). The I'd need to drop either £50 for the BRB or £75 for Escape From Goblin Town. So the cheapest there is £130.

With the same £130 I can get 2 starters for Flames Of War with £30 left over for some blisters. Or 4 Infinity teams, or pretty much everything for one side in X-Wing, or a large Bolt Action or Hail Caesar army.

I dare say I could get a better force for 40K with the same money too.

I don't doubt it's the better GW ruleset, but the sticker shock prevents me (or any of my gaming buddies) from getting into it, so I'll never know.

If I see it at ~50% off I'll get some though. I've got a fair sized pile of LOTR figs I picked up cheap. The fact I can't even give them away shows how big a take up there is for it, and it's not because of the quality of the rules.

Mr Mystery

11-28-2013, 08:00 AM

Green_Lumux

11-28-2013, 08:40 AM

Finally.
No Tyranids
:(57775778577957805781

I'm actually really digging these hobbit minis. I wish they weren't as pricey as they are, or mostly in fine cast. I would have scooped a lot of them up for sure.

EDIT:

Also, I just realized the movie is only 2 weeks away. For All it's faults, I still enjoy it.

YEAAA!

eldargal

11-28-2013, 09:08 AM

The perry twins do some great historical models just not fantasy models :/ still the ruleset was really tight as you had a base stat line and changing it added to or subtracted from points cost. So despite its hate it was probably the most balanced GW game.

The Perry twins Vampire Counts stuff is excellent.

I want to see a better picture of Tauriel, after the horribleness that was the Galadriel sculpt I really want her sculpt to be excellent and from what I can tell it is ok, but it's a fairly small, blurry picture.

Herzlos

11-28-2013, 09:26 AM

Gobbos £20.

Gobbo Captain £10

Cave Troll £18.50.

Or, Escape from Goblin Town - £75, Cave Troll £18.50. (Goblin Town comes with Gobbo King, and a Captain in it)

So cheapest is £93.50, including full rules, some terrain and models you can do swapsies with.

If you've got models already, group them into races, see what you've got. Chances are you've got a full force or two.

Sorry, basic starting level is £93.50 (I didn't see a Cave Troll). That'll still get me started in pretty much any game with change. Though as far as I recall Goblin Town doesn't actually have stats for anything not in Goblin Town, so I wouldn't have the rules for the Cave Troll?

All I've got model wise is some knights of Gondor, Wild Men, uruk-hai, goblins, 2 Gandalfs and an Eagle. Even if I had enough I couldn't bring myself to spend £50 on a rule book or £75 for a starter set, just to use them. I'm not being tight either; I've already spent £300 on mini's this month.

Lord-Boofhead

11-28-2013, 10:49 AM

If they'd come out this month, it'd be one more sure-seller for the holiday season.

Bercause you totally need to boost sales at Christmas time.

Post Christmas is when you NEED to boost sales...

Oh lookie here what's coming out in January?

Popsical

11-28-2013, 01:09 PM

From a marketing point of view there was never going to be any releases but lotr hobbit this month. Im surprised they released the 40k books frankly.
The simple fact is, they must sell as many nobbit boxes as possible now or lose the once a year shot at opening the market up for the second to last time. Lets face it theres only a few years of shelf life left to the game before the axe falls. Dont anyone think gw wont axe the nobbit. They will.

Al Shut

11-29-2013, 02:47 AM

Im surprised they released the 40k books frankly.

We are probably supposed to buy the books now and than want fortifications and superheavies for christmas

Deadlift

11-29-2013, 09:21 AM

Bercause you totally need to boost sales at Christmas time.

Post Christmas is when you NEED to boost sales...

Oh lookie here what's coming out in January?

What when most of us post Christmas are a bit less flush for cash. ? I'm sure the GW sales dept know better than I but every other company in the "toy" industry are pushing to get their big things out for Christmas not after. I would imagine that New Line have a clause stating when any Hobbit related stuff has to be released and the release can't be overshadowed by the release of another GW codex or army book.
I suppose one argument too would be that it's an ideal time to grab the kids attention who got money at Christmas.

Tzeentch's Dark Agent

11-29-2013, 10:09 AM

I'm happy for this release to be honest. I enjoy LotR as a system.

Wildeybeast

11-29-2013, 11:29 AM

I'm happy for this release to be honest. I enjoy LotR as a system.

What when most of us post Christmas are a bit less flush for cash. ? I'm sure the GW sales dept know better than I but every other company in the "toy" industry are pushing to get their big things out for Christmas not after. I would imagine that New Line have a clause stating when any Hobbit related stuff has to be released and the release can't be overshadowed by the release of another GW codex or army book.
I suppose one argument too would be that it's an ideal time to grab the kids attention who got money at Christmas.

It's also worth bearing in mind that GW has pretty steady influxes of cash throughout the year, what with monthly releases. Xmas is the one time of the year when they have really serious competition from other toy and games retailers, not to mention the other expenses of the festive season. May be why they never really do a big release in December; it's unlikely to sell as well as any other month of the year.

Deadlift

11-29-2013, 05:34 PM

Yes, that makes sense too. Nids aren't my personal cup of tea so I'm not bothered really. GWs release plans do always seem to work for them as you say. I'm still getting plastic crack for Christmas and I guess many of us are too.

SON OF ROMULOUS

11-29-2013, 06:52 PM

I Don't play nids so honestly i could care less when they get releaseed. i Don't play hobbit or LOTR either but honestly i cannot blame GW for getting the most they can from a brand they paid go knows how much money to get to carry. So to me it makes perfect sense Hobbit release to coinside with hobbit movie. and sure nids will sell to people who play nids or who were already going to play nids and the group of armies of the month its new and shiny so i must have it consumer base. Me i look at Gw as getting the most profit they can in the quarter. hobbit will sell best with the movie nids will sell when they sell. sorry i don't feel bad for nids when sister's still haven't been given a proper update so no compassion here. heck i don't even play sisters i just feel bad for them as they have been un touhed in years.

jimmyriddle

11-30-2013, 03:35 AM

Sorry, basic starting level is £93.50 (I didn't see a Cave Troll). That'll still get me started in pretty much any game with change. Though as far as I recall Goblin Town doesn't actually have stats for anything not in Goblin Town, so I wouldn't have the rules for the Cave Troll?

All I've got model wise is some knights of Gondor, Wild Men, uruk-hai, goblins, 2 Gandalfs and an Eagle. Even if I had enough I couldn't bring myself to spend £50 on a rule book or £75 for a starter set, just to use them. I'm not being tight either; I've already spent £300 on mini's this month.

Just for reference, GW recently put all stats, rules and points values for all hobbit models in the big rulebook. The EFGT set has a lot if you want a goblin army, swapping the dwarves for another troll would probably get you to near 500pts army. I picked up a hobbit troll (individual) for 9 quid on ebay.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3610122a_HeroesandvillainsofMiddle-earth.pdf