Ethereal Question

[His_Dudeness]

We have a rules discussion at my LGS about Invocation of the Elements. The rule states

"lnvocation of the Elements: At the start of each of the Ethereal's movement phases, choose one of the four elemental powers listed below to invoke. The Ethereal, and all friendly non-vehicle models from this codex in units within 12", benefit from the effects of the elemental power until the start of the Ethereal's next Movement phase. If the Ethereal is slain, the elemental power ends immediately."

I read this say to cover only models in 12". Some others have read this to include the whole unit due to the word unit being included in the sentence.

Sorry if this has already been discussed but I would appreciate some clarification. Thanks

[ElectricPaladin]

The Ethereal, and all friendly non-vehicle models from this codex in units within 12", benefit from the effects of the elemental power until the start of the Ethereal's next Movement phase. If the Ethereal is slain, the elemental power ends immediately."

Emphasis mine.

Models in units means the models in the units. Not the entire unit, which would be signified by the text reading "...all friendly units within 12''..."

Which it does not.

[sebi81]

I read it just the other way round. If you try to shorten the sentence by deleting the restricitons it reads:
all ... models ... in units within 12"
For me it´s clear that units within 12" are affected. The wording of the sentence speaks only of models because of the restriction "non-vehicle". Only non-vehicle-models are affected but all models in units within 12". This ain´t the same as models within 12".

[ElectricPaladin]

I read it just the other way round. If you try to shorten the sentence by deleting the restricitons it reads:
all ... models ... in units within 12"
For me it´s clear that units within 12" are affected. The wording of the sentence speaks only of models because of the restriction "non-vehicle". Only non-vehicle-models are affected but all models in units within 12". This ain´t the same as models within 12".

The thing is that we have language for other rules that clearly says things like "all units within X" or "all non-vehicle units within X." The fact that GW writes that when they mean it makes the distinction pretty clear to me.

[sebi81]

That isn´t a really strong argument cause you could say the same for the opposite. There are rules where it says "all models within X". Why is the term "models in units within X" used here and not just "models within X"?

[ElectricPaladin]

That isn´t a really strong argument cause you could say the same for the opposite. There are rules where it says "all models within X". Why is the term "models in units within X" used here and not just "models within X"?

Oh, I see where you're coming from. Hm... models in units... or models in units...

Yeah. I give up. It's quite unclear.

[Katharon]

Another rule writing failure on GW's part. Just give the GW hotline a call and ask the rule question guy there. They usually have a ready, GW-approved answer for most things.

[Wolfshade]

Ah ha!

The wording is quite specific and for good reason, my previous answer I deleted when I came upon this epiphany.

I have a good reason in my head, but whether or not I can transfer that to text is questionable, here goes:

Ok, so as sebi81 says, it is saying units within X" as per the normal measurement, i.e. if one model from the unit is in range the unit is. That is the simple case.

The reason for the inclusion of "all friendly non-vehicle models from this codex" is a function of being able to have allies from a different codex.

Imagine you have an non-Codex allied IC attached to a codex unit, with the wording all friendly non-vehicle units within X" that IC would also gain the elemental power, but the rules are written specifically to avoid this, so the model affected must be from the codex.

Similiarly, if the reverse was true an codex IC attached to a non-codex allied unit, the allied unit couldn't be effected by the elemental but the IC could.

So the whole clumusy extra wording is to make it clear that it only affects units from the codex and not allies attached to models that can be effected.

[Badtucker]

specifically have asked this question down at of the WW GW tournaments. it is EVERY model in the unit. not just the ones touched by the 12inch bubble. Myth busted by GW itself.

[Anggul]

It's pretty clear that it's all of the models in any unit in 12". If just one guy is in 12", the entire unit gets it.

If not, they wouldn't bother to say anything about models in units, they would just say models. All models are units, even if they're single models.

[Nabterayl]

Ah ha!

The wording is quite specific and for good reason, my previous answer I deleted when I came upon this epiphany.

I have a good reason in my head, but whether or not I can transfer that to text is questionable, here goes:

Ok, so as sebi81 says, it is saying units within X" as per the normal measurement, i.e. if one model from the unit is in range the unit is. That is the simple case.

The reason for the inclusion of "all friendly non-vehicle models from this codex" is a function of being able to have allies from a different codex.

Imagine you have an non-Codex allied IC attached to a codex unit, with the wording all friendly non-vehicle units within X" that IC would also gain the elemental power, but the rules are written specifically to avoid this, so the model affected must be from the codex.

Similiarly, if the reverse was true an codex IC attached to a non-codex allied unit, the allied unit couldn't be effected by the elemental but the IC could.

So the whole clumusy extra wording is to make it clear that it only affects units from the codex and not allies attached to models that can be effected.
I think that Wolfshade has it exactly. The thing that is within 12" is units, not models. So we ask ourselves, okay, which are the units within 12" of the ethereal? That would be all units with any part of at least one constituent model's base within 12" of the Ethereal, per page 4 of the main rulebook.

Then we ask ourselves, of the models in those units, which models benefit from the Invocation? The answer to that is all models from Codex: Tau Empire.

If you have an all-Empire army, then that's every model in the unit, but in 6th edition that might not be the case. You could have a space marine tactical squad with an attached Tau commander, for instance. So long as any part of that unit was within 12" of the ethereal it would be picked up by "units within 12"," but only the Tau commander would benefit (whether or not the commander model himself was within 12"). Or you could have a fire warrior squad with an attached inquisitor, in which case only the fire warriors would benefit.

[DarkLink]

Yep. That's what I see there, too.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think Wolfy/DarkLink/Nabterayl have it right. I still think that the wording is unclear and hopefully will be clarified in a FAQ, but I think you're right about GW's intent.

[His_Dudeness]

Thanks for the answers. GW editors are amazing

[Nabterayl]

I don't know that the wording is actually that unclear. If I say, "All lawyers in buildings within 12 miles of downtown will be shot," that's not really unclear, is it? All they've done is replace "lawyers" with "units from Codex: Tau Empire" and "buildings" with "units" and "miles" with "inches" and "downtown" with "the ethereal."

If we assume that their goal was to say "all units within 12 inches, but only models in those units from Codex: Tau Empire" then I think they did a pretty good job.

[sebi81]

yeah! A rules discussion with a final answer everyone accepts!

[Wolfshade]

yeah! A rules discussion with a final answer everyone accepts!

I am concerned.