Supplement: Escalation

[musical-fool]

Don"t know if this is out there yet but I have had this confirmed that the supplement which will allow players to use superheavies in regular games is to be released a lot earlier than what we have been hearing about with GWSs getting their copy in the next couple of weeks/before the end of the year.

[bfmusashi]

I can't have two books on my shelf that have a ":Escalation" on their covers. It is a rule I live by.

[silashand]

I can't have two books on my shelf that have a ":Escalation" on their covers. It is a rule I live by.

So get a second shelf... :)

[Arkhan Land]

tis the season for spending money

[Bigred]

Methinks the calm before the storm is almost over. December is gonna be NUTS!

[DrLove42]

Urgh. Being someone whos played a lot of games with superheavies in under the old rules, they overpower the game unless you tailor a listto kill them.

And now SH are even stronger when shot at by normal weapons its going to be even more unsided.

And as a supplement its "legal" so you don't need approval to use it

[Al Shut]

Can't really get excited about this, as i find the Tyranid creatures from the Apocalypse to be pretty boring, with no options and everyone using the same weapon. I wouldn't buy the book to field one of those.

[Morgrim]

And as a supplement its "legal" so you don't need approval to use it
Wasn't it supposed to be something more like Planetstrike or Spearhead? You definitely need opponent approval to use those.

[Herzlos]

"legal" or not, I'm not playing against superheavies in a regular game, because I'm assuming it's completely pointless without superheavies or a counter of your own?

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm..

I remain incredibly sceptical about this.

[Learn2Eel]

I think it would be pretty cool, but as it is a rules supplement, the great thing is that you can still choose not to play with it. Just play a regular game instead, after all!
I might give it a go. It makes sense that this kind of supplement would release alongside an army such as Tyranids or Imperial Guard. When/if I get either a Harridan or - my preferred option - a Hierophant, I will definitely give it a whirl.

[Popsical]

There are certain super heavies that wont unbalance the game as drastically as others.
The malcador and its variants are not much tougher than a land raider, also the gorgon is merely an enormous transport with little better than a mortar to shoot or heavy stubbers. However anything with a destroyer weapon or 7-10" blast template will probably ruin a game in turn 1 due to killing pretty much all they touch.
If this happens I can see the guard getting some tank in their next dex with 6 hull points (wont be a forge world model tho).
It can work, GW just need to reinstate the damage tables for supers and not give any of the "legal" ones AV14 on all facings.
Im pretty sure this will happen at some stage in the future, im also pretty sure GW will make it vaguely balanced (except one SH model will be busted as heck).

[Arkhan Land]

"legal" or not, I'm not playing against superheavies in a regular game, because I'm assuming it's completely pointless without superheavies or a counter of your own?

agreed I'm hoping the supplement allows for a few formations too, If they let me Im going to keep a predator assassin squad handy

[Brother Daedulus]

I think this is an Expansion, like Planetstrike or Cities of Death, rather than a Supplement. Using the word supplement has vonfused things a bit methinks.

[Dalleron]

Unless there are free bonuses for the opponent when facing a super-heavy ie free haywire or meltabombs to units that normally don't have them, i think this could be horribly unbalanced. You'd need a list tailored to take out a super-heavy, otherwise I imagine it wrecks whole armies throught a game.

could be an interesting supplement if i had superheavies.

[Learn2Eel]

I think this is an Expansion, like Planetstrike or Cities of Death, rather than a Supplement. Using the word supplement has vonfused things a bit methinks.

Yeah that's my thinking too.

[natfka]

Escalation is very much for regular games of Warhammer 40k. However, the superheavies and gargantuan creatures allowed for it right now are rather limited. I do not know the rules for it, only that it is certainly for regular games and they take up a new Lord of War slot for each army.

I have had a partial list of the 16 Lords of War up for about three weeks. The rest are still unknown.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/11/escalation-and-lords-of-war.html

I hope that helps.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

I'm less convinced than ever by this rumour, seeing as there is now pretty much a consensus Nids are up next week.

Would be unusual to launch a supplement alongside a whole army, especially when most armies don't have any plastic kits for the supplement.

Nah. Reckon it's nonsense. But as ever, worth pointing out I have acquired a taste for my own words over the years. Fried up in a bit of butter, served with a hollandaise sauce? Lovely!

[natfka]

Escalation is a game expansion and is meant for adding a Lords of War slot for every army. So it is for regular 40k. there are only 16 models that are usable in this slot, and I have had a partial list up on my site for 3 weeks on which ones those are. Escalation will also come at the time as Stronghold Assault, which brings new and more combined fortifications to the game as well.

This is the rumor from Nov 6th on Faeit 212
Escalation gives each army access to at least one Lord of War that are for 'regular' 40k games. There appears to be a difference from Apocalypse and regular 40k games, but the exact rules for them I do not know. Any Lords of War though are expensive in points, and I have been told that the Khorne Lord of Skulls matches the point value found in apocalypse, sitting at 888pts.

There are only certain units that are in escalation, so no others are allowed for regular 40k games. There are only 16 listed in the new book. As to the point level of the games, there is mention of 1500 or 2000pt games. Here are the known models that can be used for regular games in Escalation.

Imperial Guard-Baneblade or Shadowsword
Chaos Space Marines-Khorne Lord of Skulls
Space Marines: Thunderhawk
Tyranids: Harridan
Eldar and Dark Eldar: Revenant Titan
Necrons: Necron Obelisk
Ork: Stompa

[Popsical]

Please please please bring back the super heavy damage tables or the game is gonna get "pick super to win".
Im very cautious about these lord of war rules. Having fought one in the current 30k guise with an army with no super of my own and not a tailored anti super list it was pretty pointless.

[musical-fool]

Please please please bring back the super heavy damage tables or the game is gonna get "pick super to win".
Im very cautious about these lord of war rules. Having fought one in the current 30k guise with an army with no super of my own and not a tailored anti super list it was pretty pointless.

I second this. They must have thought of a way to combat the SHs for players without a SH. Either that or it is to push people into using, scratch that, into buying a SH. Either that or it is to set the sales of a plastic TH in concrete (ok a bit of wishful thing on the plastic TH).

[Popsical]

If this is true. I agree that it could be another unsubtle GW marketing ploy before the long mooted plackie Thawk.
I mean they arent the most subtle company when it comes to these things are they? The tyranid codex being the most blatant piece of GW force selling to date.

[Arkhan Land]

Yeah Im curious to see if this will be the first sign of the new T-hawk kit (assuming both this release and the T-hawk arent wild hyperboles of the online gaming community) or if this new supplement is going to boast a FW hawk. either way Im gonna hit the store a lil later this coming week to try and pickup a set of 1/35 WWII bombs, my metal hawk is getting ready to obliterate some infantry!

[david5th]

This - http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=12000002

[Herzlos]

Hmm.

I'm less convinced than ever by this rumour, seeing as there is now pretty much a consensus Nids are up next week.

Would be unusual to launch a supplement alongside a whole army, especially when most armies don't have any plastic kits for the supplement.

Nah. Reckon it's nonsense. But as ever, worth pointing out I have acquired a taste for my own words over the years. Fried up in a bit of butter, served with a hollandaise sauce? Lovely!

Why would the Nid's release impact a supplement that probably contains less than a dozen pages of regurgitated rules?

We all know GW is trying to push Superheavy sales, so a supplement that allows you to buy superheavies to use in regular games sounds exactly like the sort of thing GW would do.

[Popsical]

Ok so saturday we see this release. I find it really odd that we will be allowed to use a stompa or lord of skulls but not lets say a malcador.
Im cautiously curious.

[RGilbert26]

Well, pre-order not release.

[Mr Mystery]

Mmm.

Tasty tasty words.

This month, I've gone with a word sandwich. White bread, thick butter, and a bit of HP Sauce. Yum yum!

[Kirsten]

there is no need for people to panic and complain. this supplement is optional. if you don't want to play against a super heavy, then don't do so. this will add options to the people who want it, it is not taking over the main game, it is not introducing super heavies to regular 40k, or completely changing the way the game will work. it is like planet strike, a little extra something you may or may not like.

[Defenestratus]

Sorry to tell you people but the plastic T-hawk is simply NOT happening.

People who have never actually held one don't realize just how massive it is - its at least twice as large in overall dimensions as any other plastic kit that GW produces.

[Mr Mystery]

People doubted plastic Stompa and Baneblade too once.

[Dietofliquor]

5765

[Defenestratus]

Well it looks like I'm right until 2014

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3kLmOqLC9Og/UpONL-gelII/AAAAAAAAbSk/lyQpQ4GIgGM/s1600/December+List.PNG

[Herzlos]

Sigmars Blood Limited Edition is four times as much as the regular hardback? $85 Vs $20. Wuh?

[Mr Mystery]

Who knows what it is?

[daboarder]

Sigmars Blood Limited Edition is four times as much as the regular hardback? $85 Vs $20. Wuh?

your looking at the novel not the rules, rules are 40 something.

[Herzlos]

your looking at the novel not the rules, rules are 40 something.

My bad. The LE Sigmars Blood rules are only double the price of the standard edition rules ($85 vs $41).

The real WTF is that there's a novel and rulebook with the same name.

[MajorWesJanson]

My bad. The LE Sigmars Blood rules are only double the price of the standard edition rules ($85 vs $41).

The real WTF is that there's a novel and rulebook with the same name.

Well, we had Warzone: Pandorax and the Pandorax novel, so it's not unprecedented.
Pandorax novel is quite good, by the way. Makes Draigo rather likeable as a character.

[Bigred]

From Dakka's Kroothawk & Warseer's Royals (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383920-Upcoming-expansions/page7):

Escalation


Each race gets at least one Lord of War (super heavy), 16 data sheets included (a.o. Baneblade, Eldar Titan, Thunderhawk, Harridan). Includes rules to include these 16 Lords of War, a.o. (modified?) Titan killer weapon rules. Also 11 scenarioes, 8 of them "Altar of War", the other 3 "Gauntlet Challenge Missions" like "When Titans Clash". The rest of the 96 pages are filled up with game photos and artwork. There will be a German version in April 2014.

Codex Stronghold Assault


48 pages, 17 of which are datasheets of existing Imperial terrain including some groups. All can be taken as the terrain slot in regular games. Those strongholds get updated rules (invalidating those in the box I guess), one page with strongholdupgrades, plus a summary of battlefield remains/ruins (?). A story of Cadians fighting against Nurgle and 2 pages of the most prominent sieges in history.

It looks like the Wall of Martyrs gives the unit occupying it Stubborn for 40pts. I think you get two of them for that amount.

The Imperial Defense Emplacement gives the unit Stubborn and gives the unit "Wide Arc of Fire" or something like that that allows Heavy Weapons to reroll overwatch shots for 80pts. You can take a few of them for that cost.

All of the pieces are now useable in standard games and you can take "networks" as one choice which are a combination of the pieces.

There is a called Bunker Siege or something like that. The attacker gets +1 Heavy for each Force Org Chart and the Defender gets three pieces of fortifications for each Force Org Chart. There are also two other Siege type missions and I believe more rules for sieges. There was a mention of orbital bombardments or artillery strikes.

[Herzlos]

That's a lot of page filler :p

[Bigred]

Pre-orders are up

5836
Warhammer 40,000: Escalation (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2330053a) $49.50


Please note, this supplement is currently only available in English language.

Across the battlefields of the 41st Millenium, desperate commanders loose their greatest weapons of war. Classified “Lords of War” by the Imperium of Man, these vast and deadly assets bring a new level of destruction to the galaxy’s eternal war.

Warhammer 40,000: Escalation contains full rules for adding super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures to every Warhammer 40,000 army. This means you can now use these massive models in games of Warhammer 40,000 as well as games of Apocalypse.

This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

You will need a copy of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and relevant codexes in order to use the contents of this book.

via Father Gabe 12-5-2013

Escalation book in hand.

- For Standard (what some refer to as
"regular") Warhammer 40,000
- Not Expansion (like Planetstrike, Cities
of Death, etc)
- Lord of War choice is optional (like Fortifications,
Allies)
- Lord of War Rules: If you use a Lord of War your
opponent receives a +1 bonus to Seize the Initiative and for every 3 Hull Points
or Wounds you cause on a Lord of War choice you gain +1 (like Slay the Warlord,
First Blood, etc).
- I won't go into details concerning the data
sheets but don't expect Reavers, Mantas or Hierophants.
- Str D weapons, AV 15 and all other Apocalypse based rules remain the
same, but now crossover to Standard ("regular") Warhammer
40,000.
- No Imperial titans.


Datasheets included:
IG: Baneblade (all varieties)
Ork: Stompa (all varieties)
Chaos: Lord of Skulls
Astartes: Thunderhawk
Tyranid: Harridan
Tau: Tigershark
Eldar/Dark Eldar: Revenant
Necrons: Tessseract Vault, Transcendant C'Tan, Obelisk


5837
Warhammer 40,000: Stronghold Assault (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2330037a) $33.00


Armoured bastions and towering bulwarks stand as imposing sentinels on almost every battleground in the 41st Millennium. To assault such fortifications is invariably to charge in the face of death, and only the most determined army has any hope of survival.

Warhammer 40,000: Stronghold Assault provides a plethora of background material and rules to turn any game of Warhammer 40,000 into full-blown siege warfare.

This 48-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· New art, background, and timeline entries conveying the horror of siege warfare in the 41st Millennium.
· 17 fortifications datasheets for the full range of Warhammer 40,000 scenery that can be used by any Warhammer 40,000 army.
· Updated rules for buildings and fortifications for games of Warhammer 40,000.
· Additional rules for weapons and battlefield debris.
· Includes three new Siege War missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

You will need a copy of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and relevant codexes in order to use the contents of this book.

via Avatar_exADV (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383920-Upcoming-expansions&p=7000171&viewfull=1#post7000171) 12-5-2013

Books both in hand.

The Aquila Strongpoint does mount strength D weapons, but is still exploded on a 2+ on the Strength D table. No special defenses against Strength D weapons, though at AV15 (!) and -1 on the damage table, it's rough to take down with just about anything else.

That said, there's also terrain which projects void fields, which each soak a destroyer hit...

Stronghold Assault book has rules for kits that haven't been released yet, even if it's just a couple of 'em. (void shields...)

[FallenTalon]

Would I be right in thinking that Escalation is an expansion like Planetstrike or Cities of Death, where it's an extra optional set of rules, while Stronghold Assault is like a Codex or Codex supplement where all the rules are available as standard? Or have I got all this totally the wrong way around?

[n00bzilla99]

Would I be right in thinking that Escalation is an expansion like Planetstrike or Cities of Death, where it's an extra optional set of rules, while Stronghold Assault is like a Codex or Codex supplement where all the rules are available as standard? Or have I got all this totally the wrong way around?

We can only hope.

[Kernbanks]

Torn... i hope more codex/death from the skys... but realistically it sounds more like a planet strike.

[Erik Setzer]

Would I be right in thinking that Escalation is an expansion like Planetstrike or Cities of Death, where it's an extra optional set of rules, while Stronghold Assault is like a Codex or Codex supplement where all the rules are available as standard? Or have I got all this totally the wrong way around?

It actually sounds like it's the other way, since Escalation mentions additions to "standard" 40K games.

"An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies."

It sounds like they're trying harder to move all those large plastic models that they made for Apocalypse. Sure, I have a Stompa and I'm about to get a Lord of Skulls, but I don't necessarily want to pull them out in a basic 1500 point list to combat my opponent bringing a Baneblade. And with the Orks, that's practically what I'd have to do, since Orks don't have much to deal with armor, especially a super-heavy. (Sure, Dreads and Kans in an assault, but a reasonably smart opponent will blow them up before they get anywhere.)

[jakeraven]

i just hope my warhound titan is on the list as it doesnt get so see much action and i would love to bring it with my marines ...it gets killed so easy though...usually a pesky squad of firedragons or some nasty termies hammer it to death...but its fun to see it on the table. i think this expansion is gona be great for 40k...we will forge some 'ard narratives with it hahahahaha

[MajorWesJanson]

It actually sounds like it's the other way, since Escalation mentions additions to "standard" 40K games.

"An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies."

It sounds like they're trying harder to move all those large plastic models that they made for Apocalypse. Sure, I have a Stompa and I'm about to get a Lord of Skulls, but I don't necessarily want to pull them out in a basic 1500 point list to combat my opponent bringing a Baneblade. And with the Orks, that's practically what I'd have to do, since Orks don't have much to deal with armor, especially a super-heavy. (Sure, Dreads and Kans in an assault, but a reasonably smart opponent will blow them up before they get anywhere.)

If it is like the FW Lords of War, they can only be 25% of the points of your force, meaning larger games, but with the normal rules and not the Apoc rules.

[bubbles15]

Everyone's getting very frightened unnecessarily. Your chum asks if you can take a superheavy vehicle and you do, or you don't.

For example, if a Daemon player aims for a 2500 point battle to take a Lord of Skulls (leaving the maths aside) you could then take something vastly more effective to counter that model such as three vanquishers/Necron royal court/Dark Eldar/Tau Hammerheads/deepstriking thunderhammer terminators.

Every army has a unit that can counter super heavies. It's very simple. At that points level you just account for the possiblity.

[n00bzilla99]

Everyone's getting very frightened unnecessarily. Your chum asks if you can take a superheavy vehicle and you do, or you don't.

For example, if a Daemon player aims for a 2500 point battle to take a Lord of Skulls (leaving the maths aside) you could then take something vastly more effective to counter that model such as three vanquishers/Necron royal court/Dark Eldar/Tau Hammerheads/deepstriking thunderhammer terminators.

Every army has a unit that can counter super heavies. It's very simple. At that points level you just account for the possiblity.

My problem becomes... in my group of friendly gamers we have that guy who thinks "It'll be cool to use SH in 2000 points or less" then he'll do it. So the game becomes "Did I kill your SH before you use it?" Check yes, you win. Check no, you lose. No thanks, I'd rather not play that at all.

[GravesDisease]

My problem becomes... in my group of friendly gamers we have that guy who thinks "It'll be cool to use SH in 2000 points or less" then he'll do it. So the game becomes "Did I kill your SH before you use it?" Check yes, you win. Check no, you lose. No thanks, I'd rather not play that at all.

It's a supplement, end of. Why are we even still talking about this?

Now I wonder though, what tier of superheavies will actually be legal. I'm guessing GW won't be like forgeworld and publish the contents page, but it sure would be useful.

[White Tiger88]

hehehehee FW Keeper of secrets at 2k sounds fun.

[Bigred]

Pre-orders are up

5836
Warhammer 40,000: Escalation (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2330053a) $49.50


Please note, this supplement is currently only available in English language.

Across the battlefields of the 41st Millenium, desperate commanders loose their greatest weapons of war. Classified “Lords of War” by the Imperium of Man, these vast and deadly assets bring a new level of destruction to the galaxy’s eternal war.

Warhammer 40,000: Escalation contains full rules for adding super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures to every Warhammer 40,000 army. This means you can now use these massive models in games of Warhammer 40,000 as well as games of Apocalypse.

This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

You will need a copy of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and relevant codexes in order to use the contents of this book.

via Father Gabe 12-5-2013

Escalation book in hand.

- For Standard (what some refer to as
"regular") Warhammer 40,000
- Not Expansion (like Planetstrike, Cities
of Death, etc)
- Lord of War choice is optional (like Fortifications,
Allies)
- Lord of War Rules: If you use a Lord of War your
opponent receives a +1 bonus to Seize the Initiative and for every 3 Hull Points
or Wounds you cause on a Lord of War choice you gain +1 (like Slay the Warlord,
First Blood, etc).
- I won't go into details concerning the data
sheets but don't expect Reavers, Mantas or Hierophants.
- Str D weapons, AV 15 and all other Apocalypse based rules remain the
same, but now crossover to Standard ("regular") Warhammer
40,000.
- No Imperial titans.


Datasheets included:
IG: Baneblade (all varieties)
Ork: Stompa (all varieties)
Chaos: Lord of Skulls
Astartes: Thunderhawk
Tyranid: Harridan
Tau: Tigershark
Eldar/Dark Eldar: Revenant
Necrons: Tessseract Vault, Transcendant C'Tan, Obelisk


5837
Warhammer 40,000: Stronghold Assault (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2330037a) $33.00


Armoured bastions and towering bulwarks stand as imposing sentinels on almost every battleground in the 41st Millennium. To assault such fortifications is invariably to charge in the face of death, and only the most determined army has any hope of survival.

Warhammer 40,000: Stronghold Assault provides a plethora of background material and rules to turn any game of Warhammer 40,000 into full-blown siege warfare.

This 48-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· New art, background, and timeline entries conveying the horror of siege warfare in the 41st Millennium.
· 17 fortifications datasheets for the full range of Warhammer 40,000 scenery that can be used by any Warhammer 40,000 army.
· Updated rules for buildings and fortifications for games of Warhammer 40,000.
· Additional rules for weapons and battlefield debris.
· Includes three new Siege War missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

You will need a copy of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and relevant codexes in order to use the contents of this book.

via Avatar_exADV (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383920-Upcoming-expansions&p=7000171&viewfull=1#post7000171) 12-5-2013

Books both in hand.

The Aquila Strongpoint does mount strength D weapons, but is still exploded on a 2+ on the Strength D table. No special defenses against Strength D weapons, though at AV15 (!) and -1 on the damage table, it's rough to take down with just about anything else.

That said, there's also terrain which projects void fields, which each soak a destroyer hit...

Stronghold Assault book has rules for kits that haven't been released yet, even if it's just a couple of 'em. (void shields...)

[Krayd]

So, ultimately, my question is this:

Is there any good reason to own a copy of Escalation if I already own a copy of Apocalypse? (and the tweak to FoC, bonus points for damaging Superheavies, and other rule changes that can easily be memorized do not constitute 'good reasons')

[Popsical]

The answer is yes. You can now play regular games of 40k with FOC and all normal restrictions (as loose as they are becoming) and use supers etc.
This as said above appears to be "official" too, not an expansion like planet strike or such. Its for players that dont like apoc but like the odd super hev or such like.

[Defenestratus]

The answer is yes. You can now play regular games of 40k with FOC and all normal restrictions (as loose as they are becoming) and use supers etc.
This as said above appears to be "official" too, not an expansion like planet strike or such. Its for players that dont like apoc but like the odd super hev or such like.

Right but what he's saying is that there's really no rules in the book that are unique enough to warrant purchasing the book.

I believe there are some new warlord tables, some modifications to reserve rolls and changes to scoring (all of which can be easily memorized) but mostly its "Apoc-lite 40k"

I think this is a supplement thats probably good to have a copy for the store or club and thats about it.

How much is the digital version? If its more than $20USD then I'll probably pass.

[Mr Mystery]

The answer is yes. You can now play regular games of 40k with FOC and all normal restrictions (as loose as they are becoming) and use supers etc.
This as said above appears to be "official" too, not an expansion like planet strike or such. Its for players that dont like apoc but like the odd super hev or such like.

And indeed those who want the big shiny dakka toys but who don't have the time or opportunity to regularly partake in Apocalypse.

For me, it's a rare pass. Though being a completist nerd, I'll likely pick it up eventually. Just in absolutely no rush.

Strongholds however...that appeals to me!

[Popsical]

Yeah i suppose it really comes down to wether your oppo wants all your rules handy for his perusal.
I which case it saves lugging the apoc book around. The victory points for hull and wounds sounds good.

Stronghold could be the better buy. Im interested to see the points and rules for all the kits.
I would like some trenches for my seige vanguard.

[Mr Mystery]

Apologies if previous post reads a little condescending. Just re-read it and thought I'd get a quick 'sorry, wasn't meant to' caveat in!

[Popsical]

None needed MM. But thanks anyway, your a true gent.

[Krayd]

I think I'll pass then. The changes to FoC and scoring is something that can be easily kept track of without a book. I was hoping for more complex Superheavy rules that would have been left out of Apocalypse due to the possibility of slowing the game down too much, though I would have probably just used the more complex rules for 'lighter' games of Apocalypse (3-4000 pt range), if they were fully compatible.

Now, the advanced building/terrain rules in the other book, THAT sounds intriguing

[White Tiger88]

Anddd Daemons get nothing! (well lord of skulls doesnt count...)

[Demonus]

the FW daemon princes dont count?

[Arkhan Land]

Nope doesnt look like it, I was kind of wondering if there was a way to field an lord of undivided chaos symbolism, not that it matters since my demon faction is khorne, but still kind of a little empty feeling in the chaos field... maybe time for a new lords of battle, escalation edition?

[K1rby]

A quick summary of some of the major points has been posted on 3++ forums (http://www.3plusplus.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=2720&p=4078#p4078); D weapons in regular games is a sad time but I don't imagine many will be using them given the cost to run them both monetary and points wise however; the new forts... we shall see if bubble shield forts become a thing

[Krayd]

A quick summary of some of the major points has been posted on 3++ forums (http://www.3plusplus.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=2720&p=4078#p4078); D weapons in regular games is a sad time but I don't imagine many will be using them given the cost to run them both monetary and points wise however; the new forts... we shall see if bubble shield forts become a thing

I was hoping that they'd at least allow 'Weapon Destroyed' results to count on Superheavies for Escalation games (perhaps allowing for the primary weapon to be destroyed after the others are gone), as I think that would balance out Superheavies a bit more.

[Katharon]

A quick summary of some of the major points has been posted on 3++ forums (http://www.3plusplus.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=2720&p=4078#p4078); D weapons in regular games is a sad time but I don't imagine many will be using them given the cost to run them both monetary and points wise however; the new forts... we shall see if bubble shield forts become a thing

Thank the Emperor that the Imperial Guard makes such cheap Shadowswords. =D

[MajorWesJanson]

Anddd Daemons get nothing! (well lord of skulls doesnt count...)

Tau get a joke- the Tigershark base, when many people (myself included) have the AX-1-0

[Bigred]

I fundamentally don't have an issue with super heavies in the game - GW makes the kits and they have always had the "you cant use these in the real game" stigma. Something that has had to have been frustrating to them from a manufacturer point of view.

What I can't believe is the heavy handed way they aded them into the game.

A rather arbitrary set of superheavies and no points or percentage restrictions is going to result in some ridiculous lists folks are going to bring to the tabletop.

Once again, we are seeing the example of FW with the Horus Heresy books leading and doing it the right way (the key 25% of total points restriction for the Lord of War slot).

And yes Major, the "basic Tigershark" zinger is kinda a F-You to the Tau community. Also, why give the Eldar who are hardly lacking the power/meta department the 900pt beatstick when the Scorpion would have been a much better choice for for the overall balance slot if you had to give them only a single super heavy?

[Orange]

Do either of these books have interactive editions like the codices?

[Chris Copeland]

What I can't believe is the heavy handed way they aded them into the game.

A rather arbitrary set of superheavies and no points or percentage restrictions is going to result in some ridiculous lists folks are going to bring to the tabletop.

I haven't seen anything indicating that Escalation rules are getting added into anything in a heavy-handed way. As far as I can tell Escalation is just another supplement like Cities of Death, Spearhead, and Planetstrike. Escalation provides a new path to explore but it's just a supplement... what make you think it is now part of the "main game"? I'm curious. Cheers. Cope

[Bigred]

Escalation is now out. Start to take the analysis and commentary over to rules/tactics please.

[T-ORK-amada]

It's not a Supplement. It is like Death from the Skies. "Official" rules for standard 40k games. If you look at the book, it clearly states it is adding the Lords of War slot to the force org chart. There is nothing on the book that mentions "optional". Its intent is very clearly to add Superheavies to 40k. That being said, anyone can ignore it.

[eldargal]

It's not a Supplement. It is like Death from the Skies. "Official" rules for standard 40k games. If you look at the book, it clearly states it is adding the Lords of War slot to the force org chart. There is nothing on the book that mentions "optional". Its intent is very clearly to add Superheavies to 40k. That being said, anyone can ignore it.

That is the definition of a supplement...

[Morgrim]

I'm furious Dark Eldar got nothing. Yes, yes, I know technically Dark Eldar got the Revenent Titan and that is the one everyone is saying is the best, but it is A CRAFTWORLDER TITAN. Worse, it is powered by soulstones and made of wraithbone, both of which the fluff states act screwy around Dark Eldar. So basically my army got shoved something implausible because nobody has ever bothered giving us a super heavy or a large flyer or anything of that ilk (and never will, because Forgeworld has flat out said the Tantalus is the last DE vehicle they're ever planning to do).

Oh well. I can't say I like the D weapons in standard play anyway, and since I can't play with the supplement and I don't like the rules I'm going to point blank refuse to let my opponents do so either.

[Houghten]

To my mind the Dark Eldar problem is easily solved by adding in a house-rule that lets you take an Apocalypse Formation in your Lords of War slot. A Ravager Titan-Hunter Squadron will put the fear in 'em.

Admittedly, not so much for the poor Sororitas. They're better off taking a bunch of multi-meltas than bothering to put together a Purge Squadron.

[eldargal]

Where did FW say the Tantalus was the last DE vehicle they were doing? I know they said it was time consuming to sculpt but there was talk of more with IA13.

[Mr Mystery]

Random claim on the internet I understand. Nothing to back it up.

[Morgrim]

Where did FW say the Tantalus was the last DE vehicle they were doing? I know they said it was time consuming to sculpt but there was talk of more with IA13.
In the interview with the designer they said that the Tantalus was frustrating to work on due to the sleek-yet-spiky aesthetic that Dark Eldar have and that their resin just wasn't suited to it, so they weren't planning on doing any more large Dark Eldar models or vehicles due to design constraints. *goes hunting for the interview itself*

[Popsical]

I'm furious Dark Eldar got nothing. Yes, yes, I know technically Dark Eldar got the Revenent Titan and that is the one everyone is saying is the best, but it is A CRAFTWORLDER TITAN. Worse, it is powered by soulstones and made of wraithbone, both of which the fluff states act screwy around Dark Eldar. So basically my army got shoved something implausible because nobody has ever bothered giving us a super heavy or a large flyer or anything of that ilk (and never will, because Forgeworld has flat out said the Tantalus is the last DE vehicle they're ever planning to do).

Oh well. I can't say I like the D weapons in standard play anyway, and since I can't play with the supplement and I don't like the rules I'm going to point blank refuse to let my opponents do so either.

Your mad because GW gave you the opportunity to convert a revenant? Its a laughably easy job to file off the soul stones and add dark eldaresque stuff to a revenant.
Try hanging flensed bodies and skulls from it and adding assorted spikey bits, it will look fantastic, maybe a pair of sails on the back instead of the eldar wings.
If I were in your boat I would be off to FW today to get started. Lets face it quite a bit of the DE dex is just renamed Eldar stuff anyway. Would you refuse to take dark lances because they are blatantly bright lances but in naughty hands?

[Mr Mystery]

Stop giving me ideas Popsical!

Now I want to give a Revanant a necklace made of various heads!

[Popsical]

Soz dude :D even I got tempted by my own darned idea.

[Mr Mystery]

And attempt to make cracks appear using paint effects, make the wraithbone look tortured.

Oooh. That new earth one.....could be used for a sort of Wraithbone eczema....

Just because it goes a bit wibbly, doesn't mean a talented Haemonculis wouldn't be up for a tinker!

[Popsical]

Exactly. Use a craft knife to score cracks and fissures over the largest smooth parts. To be honest id be tempted with a vibro cannon, it seems like a really DE way of torturing a target to death. Sort of tearing them apart slowly. Sick and twisted like the DE should be.

morgrim, you've been given a great opportunity to add a seriously cool unit to your army, if you read HH books think of the deseased eldar titans that Magnus fights. Its even fluffy for jeebus sake.

[Morgrim]

Honestly it irritates me that I have to. Every else gets stuff that belongs to their army and DE get stuff that belongs to their hated cousins and have to scramble to come up with reasons and excuses and conversions. I mean, if they're going to go that path why not use a Void Dragon and give it killer AA capabilities or something? It would fit with fluff and fill a valuable niche.

EDIT: I will admit I am instead considering grabbing a toy dinosaur of appropriate size, sticking guns and a mind control system ala Dinobots and using that instead. If they're going to take something over may as well make it worthwhile. Maybe one of those small roboraptors, so if I do get sucked in I can at least have a titan that will march across the table and roar at my opponent.

[Mr Mystery]

I'd stick to the paints meself. Don't trust me as far as I can throw me when it comes to carving resin. :p

[Popsical]

Honestly it irritates me that I have to. Every else gets stuff that belongs to their army and DE get stuff that belongs to their hated cousins and have to scramble to come up with reasons and excuses and conversions. I mean, if they're going to go that path why not use a Void Dragon and give it killer AA capabilities or something? It would fit with fluff and fill a valuable niche.

You don't have to. Your already using bright lances, melta guns and stuff, why moan about using eldar stuff when you already are?
Its not an excuse to do use a revenant, its an opportunity. Pretty much everyone uses allies to plug holes in their army, in my opinion that's far less fluffy than DE using left over tech from before the fall. Or are DE like the chaos maureens and threw all the old cool equipment away?

[eldargal]

Your mad because GW gave you the opportunity to convert a revenant? Its a laughably easy job to file off the soul stones and add dark eldaresque stuff to a revenant.
Try hanging flensed bodies and skulls from it and adding assorted spikey bits, it will look fantastic, maybe a pair of sails on the back instead of the eldar wings.
If I were in your boat I would be off to FW today to get started. Lets face it quite a bit of the DE dex is just renamed Eldar stuff anyway. Would you refuse to take dark lances because they are blatantly bright lances but in naughty hands?
Except it is still highly lore friendly. One of the small, handheld pieces of equipment used by Dark Eldar made of wraithbone became so hard to find as to be almost impossible to locate, the idea there is a bunch of giant wraithbone statues walking around Commorogh just doesn't work.

Also, the Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar armies and playstyles are radically different, if you think it is just renamed Craftworld stuff then you've clearly never actually read either book. Bright/Dark lances and starcannons/disintegrators are really the only points of comparison.

[Popsical]

Who says the DE revenant is made of wraithbone? Anyways its a vast universe with limitless possibilities.

If GW has tried to teach us anything in 6th edition it is this: Do what ever you want with your collection, buy the figures you like and use them, and just enjoy the game.

My mind set in the last few months has changed to this too. 90% the whinging and moaning that comes out on the forums is people talking about restricting other players because of reasons X or Y, im fed up with seeing reasons why we "cant" and just go with the flow.
Others should try it too.

[eldargal]

Because Revanants are made pf wraithbone? If you want to proxy it as something else, but it's still irritating when there were a bunch of Apoc formations DE could have got instead without unbalancing things. Getting a Revenant just screams afterthought.

[Popsical]

Some might say half of 6th ed screams afterthought. Im sure the next 2 years will see a plethora of stuff released that will irritate lots of people.
With that in mind, why bother with 40k at all? I initially found the whole allies matrix plain annoying as it made no clear sense and just benefits some armies while ignoring others. Do you know what? Who cares? GW don't and many players don't either. A player can now turn up to a pick up game with multiple races mixed together so flippin randomly that the fluff needed if you were to try and "justify" it would be enormous. For anyone simply wanting to enjoy 40k as just their hobby it is best to go with the flow and just play. Fluff is fine between consenting gamers who understand each others nuances and ideals. For friendly pick up games or tournies its just irrelevant and becomes "you cant/shouldn't because I read this" or "I can/should because I think that". Pointless.

The advent of codex inquisition has pretty much made a mockery of any anti allies arguments and the new formations and super hevs seem to go hand in hand to break up the FOC even more. As reecius has said at front line gaming, how do we deal with whats in or out?
Who is right or wrong? Who says who is right or wrong?

[eldargal]

No, the Marinewank is definitely not an afterthought. Stuff being released isn't annoying, stuff being released for every army but yours is annoying. As for the rest of your post, the complete lack of logic is more than I can bother with at the moment.

[Popsical]

Makes sense to me :p
Lots of armies lack releases of things, getting annoyed about it is pointless. As ive said GW couldn't give two flying $$$$'s if you get so annoyed you have a heart attack.

[eldargal]

Yeah, but you're going from 'mild annoyance that DE didn't get anything to 'giving up on 40k completely' which is ridiculous. The fact is having a supplement that basically ignores your army IS cause for annoyance, it doesn't mean GW did anything wrong but it does mean they could have done better.

[Popsical]

Don't give up 40k, give up getting annoyed. Its simply not worth it. We can all do things better, maybe GW think they are doing it well enough already?
The fact we are all still dosing up on plastic crack from them would seem to suggest they don't need to change.
Sisters got squat as usual. Maureens got a £395 option, for how many people????
At least the revenant is comparatively cheap.

[Houghten]

Bright/Dark lances and starcannons/disintegrators are really the only points of comparison.

I'd have said it was just the lances, even - given that disintegrators are lower-Strength-more-shots than starcannon.

[Popsical]

My point is, why would you object so fiercely to a revenant being in your army when every army can now go nuts mixing up factions and units?
Just call it an ally if it bothers you that much, pretty much everything else can be these days (sorry nid players).
If its because you want a DE super heavy and feel rejected, tough titties, we all want stuff released in some respect.
It doesnt help get it any sooner, if at all.

I owned a thunderhawk and sold it because it was too impractical to lug around and i couldnt justify owning such an expensive unit that i rarely used. I want a smaller maureen super heavy that doesnt cost 375 quid that i can use in normal 40k. Apparently i can only choose the thawk tho. Oh well, tough.

[Autarch]

Eldargal.... you have 60,000 pts of CW Eldar... why are you so upset/focused on DE getting the Revenant? I'm a Dark and CW Eldar player and I'm happy about it.

(granted my guys are modeled up to look like Corsair compatible craftworlders).

[Bigred]

Popsical wrote:

I want a smaller maureen super heavy that doesnt cost 375 quid that i can use in normal 40k.

Malcador - it gets the job done!

[Popsical]

I agree bigred. Although i was under the impression that it was a guard tank. Also does escalation cover all supers or just the few in the book?

[Bigred]

Well the Malcador does require that your Marines be in 30K :)

By the letter of the rules, Escalation only covers the units included in it, but I can't see that holding up for long. There are a host of other lower powered super heavies that would work much better with 40K than the ones in the book.

I'm sure either players, or GW will be happy to sell you another hardcover with them. Off the top of my head:

Maldador
Macharius
Heirodule
Scorpion
Cobra
Battle Fortress
Gargantuan Squiggoth
Brass Scorpion
Tigershark AX-1-0

These are all lower in power than some of the models from Escalation.

[Houghten]

If I don't get to use my Macharius, I'm going home.

I'd even buy and build the rest of the Guard company for its sake.

[Popsical]

Well the Malcador does require that your Marines be in 30K :)

By the letter of the rules, Escalation only covers the units included in it, but I can't see that holding up for long. There are a host of other lower powered super heavies that would work much better with 40K than the ones in the book.

I'm sure either players, or GW will be happy to sell you another hardcover with them. Off the top of my head:

Maldador
Macharius
Heirodule
Scorpion
Cobra
Battle Fortress
Gargantuan Squiggoth
Brass Scorpion
Tigershark AX-1-0

These are all lower in power than some of the models from Escalation.

Agreed bigred. I have been considering a gorgon for my astral claws with replaement scout crew.