Dark Eldar allies for my Eldar

[Lost Vyper]

**SPOILERS AHEAD!! IF YOU WANT TO CHECK OUT MY LATEST BATREP FIRST, STOP READING!!!!!**



Okay, in my last match, i had doubts about my DE allies and my gut was right...they really didn´t bring anything to the table...

First of all, i´m not trying to build a Venom-spam, but an interesting, all around Dark Eldar army (little by little) and the beginnings are to team up with my Lost Vyper -fleet...

Currently i have :

- Archon
- Cool modified Baron Sathonyx
- 10 x Kabalite Warriors or as Trueborn
- 10 x Wyches or as Hekatrixes
- 10 x Hellions
- Ravager or i proxy a Raider with it too
- Voidraven (i use it mostly as a Crimson for Eldar)

Last match, i got the Baron + Hellions, Wyches in a Raider...all of the matches, where Baron has made an appearence, he looses his 2+ within 2 rounds and Hellions are moved down like a lawn. Raider got blown up and 6+ doesn´t really help the Wyches...Wyches did how ever (all 4 that were left) Haywire a Drednaught down (Fuegan helped, by gathering the Overwatch), so points were paid back there. But if Fuegan hadn´t been there...dear lord...

My opponent admitted, that he had counter built a list against the Eldar --> ignores cover in blasts from the orbit and from the tanks and my WS´s were hurting. Plus the Hellions, who would have had 3+ cover thanks to Baron, but not in this game.

I haven´t lost hope, but it seems, that the Wyches might have been a terrible buy, but i got them fairly cheap, so...I just love the Baron (coolest HQ IMHO, but not the best i see) and the Hellions, but Eldar Jetbikes do the same, but better.
At the moment, i´m on a TIGHT budjet, so i really don´t need a shopping list, but more of a strategic ideas, like Archon with the Wyches to keep the alive WHEN the Raider explodes? Or what?

I´m trying to fix a game against the Space Wolves, cos the worst things from there are the Jaws and LOADS of missiles...at least i´ll have my cover save...

- (Really) Lost Vyper

[Sly]

6th Edition is not kind to Assault units that have problems surviving shooting, because it is a lot harder to get into Assault without taking fire. So Wyches really are toast, there is no good way to make them function. The Archon is in the same boat as them. Hellions and the Baron are at least decent, though Ignore Cover weapons hurt them pretty badly. Ravager and Void Raven are both fine.

If you could drop the Archon/Wyches and put anything in their place, that would improve the list. Failing that, maybe adding Karandras would allow them to Outflank so that they have a better chance of getting near the enemy. The problem is that they lack Acute Senses so you don't have an improved chance to pick your side when you enter.

[chicop76]

It would help to know what eldar you are running as well with the de.

De bring a lot to the table that Eldar don't have.

1. Lance Shots. In this department DE have them all over while eldar wishes they had them.

2. Open topped transports.

3. Decent flyer

4. Wracks and flame weapons.

Honestly I don't see why bother with a DE and Eldar assault squad. Honestly Eldar have better assault options they just lack getting them there, while de can get them there, but they have to stay alive. Of anything the Incubi and Archon are great units, but unless they are in a dias with 14 armour and 4 plus cover saves it will be really hard to get that squad across the table in onepiece.

The only units worth really merging is a Farseer on bike with de bikes, would be nice if an Archon can ride a bike. Even still a bike council comes off better or running a squad of regular eldar bikes.

However De have wracks they can carry flame weapons and have decent durability for their point cost, not to mention they do well against high toughness models. The flame out of an open topped transport option isn't bad.

The great thing about the alliance is you can take a lot of cheap de units. The problem will be do I shoot at the hard to kill serpents or do I shoot at the semi hard to kill cheap throw away units.

What DE brings is avordable ranged shooting.


I can imagine what wave serpent spam with venom spam can be really annoying with a de flyer and de 3 shot lance boat.

[Tyrendian]

Reece used to swear by the Baron+Hellions, with Farseer support to keep them alive...

[Lost Vyper]

Thanks for the advises. I too, run the Baron + Hellion + Farseer, but if there´s no cover --> toast anyways...That was a great idea, putting Karandras with the Wyches! As for the Eldar, i have almost every option available, usually prefer Heavy and Fast -choices. With the models i have (proxy is no problem in our FLGC), i came out a Dark Eldar (main)/Eldar(allies) list of 1751p for those Space Puppies :

HQ
Asdrubael Vect (Dais of Destruction)

Baron Sathonyx

ELITE
Kabalite Trueborn x 9 (4 x Blaster, 2 x Splinter Cannon) in Dais with Asdrubael

TROOP
Wyches x 9 (2 x Hydra, Haywire grenades) + Hekatrix (Venom blade)

Hellions x 10

as for the allies...

HQ
Farseer (Jetbike, Mantle of Laughing God, Shard of Anaris)

TROOP
3 x Jetbike

HEAVY
Wraithknight (2 x Scatter laser, Ghostglaive +Scattershield)

FAST
Warp Spiders x 5 + Exarch (Fast Shot, Spinnernet Rifle)

Combined with Jetseer, Wraithknight and Dais, there will be a target priority problem. Wyches stay in the back, holding their own. Jetseer boosting up either the Dais or the WK, dependng on the powers. Little light on troops, i know, but as DE is the main, only thing i can change, is getting normal Warriors with Asdrubael --> less firepower. By the way, how does the Obsidian Orbs work? Is it so, that every model under the blast has to make it´s own LD or suffer a wound?

Thanks for the help guys, REALLY appreciated

- (Little less) Lost Vyper

[Anggul]

The Dais of Destruction is a terrible waste of points. Just get a Raider for a fraction of the cost.

You don't want to mix the guns of the Trueborn. Either have Splinter Cannons and go for infantry or have Blasters and go for vehicles. In either case they're meant for Venoms. You have four or five of them with either two Splinter Cannons or four Blasters in a dual-cannon Venom.

If you're going to have a larger squad then they should just be Warriors in a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks. They're just as good at anti-infantry, are cheaper and are scoring.

You also wouldn't want an Archon of any kind with Trueborn anyway, they're a ranged unit and the Archon/Vect is a close combat unit.

I think you want about fifteen Hellions with the Baron for a good unit. Ten seems too few.

The Wyches need a Raider. Wych weapons don't seem worth the cost, but Hydra Gauntlets are indeed the best ones for outright damage.

I'm... not really seeing the point in the Shard of Anaris. Seems a waste to me.

Also spending that many points on HQ is too much in a 1750pts game. I would drop the Archon/Vect personally. You could get another full unit in a Raider for those points.

[Sly]

As Anggul said, Vect is too many points in 1750, the Dais is also too many points and the only "hard" vehicle on the field so it will be the only melta target, and Trueborn are better run as 3-man squads with Splinter Cannons and 4-5 man squads with Blasters.

Making those changes will give you the points to run more Jetbikes to shore up your Troops (I may go as high as 2x6 given the weak DE troops), and still add some other stuff. You said that you had a Void Raven, I'd certainly add that in if you can.

[chicop76]

You could look at the dias being 400 points or that you have 2 200 point models. I never thought about it, but a dias would go along well with waveserpents. If you put some nasty fire power on that thing it will force your opponent to choose trying to kill a landraider with a 5plus save with 3 lance weapons or a waveserpent that have like a 4 plus cover save and is almot impossible to pen.

[Lost Vyper]

All the models i have (DE) are in the list, so i really can´t shuffle that much. Dais is expensive, but AV13 with Jink plus three Dark Lances is not too shabby. The Shard, yeah, it is expensive, but i really need a threat running around, and i´m going to tell the opponent in detail how nasty he is in CC :)...well, i´ll have to see what to do...

[Anggul]

]The Shard, yeah, it is expensive, but i really need a threat running around, and i´m going to tell the opponent in detail how nasty he is in CC :)


But he isn't. The Shard is just a Witchblade with Rending and Instant Death in challenges. Not exactly scary. You need a lot of attacks to make use of Rending.

Also does the Dais have Aerial Assault? Because if not, it can't move 12" and still fire everything like a Ravager can.

[Chexmix282]

I ally DE to my Eldar all the time. My Eldar army is usually 5 Wave Serpents (Scatter Lasers) and 3 Fire Prisms. 2 units of mounted Fire Dragons for heavy armor. I then ally the following:

Baron Sathonyx
2x 5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Scourges w/ 2 Splinter Cannons (Baron joins this unit)

The Baron is taken for the +1 to go first, and to give Stealth to the Scourges. That's it. My Eldar force can do a ton of damage when going first. I will leave the entire allied force in reserves if going second, meaning I only deploy AV12. My Eldar army is led by an Autarch so I get +1 to reserves anyway.

[Lost Vyper]

Isn´t it a Fast Skimmer? Move 12" and shoot everything (don´t have the Codex handy atm)? And The Shard, all i need, is to TELL people, he is nasty. Believe me, they´ll see him as a threat...if i need the points, i´ll get Firesabre then...

[TyG17]

Isn´t it a Fast Skimmer? Move 12" and shoot everything (don´t have the Codex handy atm)? And The Shard, all i need, is to TELL people, he is nasty. Believe me, they´ll see him as a threat...if i need the points, i´ll get Firesabre then...

Unfortunately no. Normally a fast skimmer can only fire 2 weapons at full ballistic skill if it moves at cruising speed. The Aerial Assault special rule on the Ravager allows it to fire all of its weapons.

EDIT: Spelling and grammar

[Lost Vyper]

Yep, sorry, two weapons and one snap shot (Wave Serpent). So it can only move 6" and shoot all three with BS?

[TyG17]

So it can only move 6" and shoot all three with BS?

Correct. Fast vehicles can move at combat speed and fire all weapons at normal ballistic skill. So your wave serpents and raiders and venoms can move 6" and fire everything as normal (including the passengers in the raiders and venoms). If you move your transports more than 6" then the passengers may only snap fire.

[Lost Vyper]

De List v. 2.0

HQ

Archon (Blast Pistol, Agonizer, Ghostplate, Haywire, Shadow field, Combat Drugs) as Warlord
Baron Sathonyx

TROOP

Wyches x 5 (Haywire) + Venom with Splinter Cannon (i got a Vyper that i never use, mind as well repaint and proxy)
Warriors x 9 (Blaster) + Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Night Shields, Flickerfield) with Archon
Hellions x 10

HEAVY

Voidraven Bomber (4 x Necrotoxin Missile, Flickerfield, Night Shields)

as for the allies...

HQ

Farseer (Jetbike)

TROOP

3 x Jetbike
7 x Dire Avengers + WS (tlBL,Holo)

HEAVY

Wraithknight (2 x Scatter laser, Ghostglaive +Scattershield)

FAST

Warp Spiders x 5 + Exarch (Fast Shot, Spinnernet Rifle)

1752p

[Anggul]

It's probably worth mentioning that the Wraithknight, as a Monstrous Creature, can only fire two weapons, so having a second Scatter Laser is pointless. You only need one to Laser Lock the Suncannon.

Warriors really aren't the best unit for an Archon to be with. They want to be staying at arm's length, making use of the Night Shields until they can swoop in for the rapid-fire killing blow, whereas he wants to dive in right where it hurts and gut the enemy. Until you have a decent CC squad in the list to let him do that, there isn't much point in having him.

[Lost Vyper]

WK is a CC version, no other shooting weapons than Scatters...

[TyG17]

I haven't had as much luck using Baron as I do using Duke. I use him to either buff a big foot squad of warriors or in a Raider with splinter racks and a 9 man squad. The 3+ to hit and 3+ to wound any nonvehicle really puts a hurt on most units.