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View Full Version : Valkyrie or Vendetta?



mercer
11-30-2009, 06:38 AM
I tried out a vendetta the other day, wasn't overly impressed. Misses more than it hits and once its busted tanks and transports its not very useful against transports.

I've been thinking of a valkyrie, but I'd take multiple rocket pods and thinking about a lascannon for that single tank busting shot.

Though, I do carry melta vets in skimmers. Perhaps melta a tank then gun dwon transports? Though, two hellhounds follow the gunships and burn anything which comes out.

Cryl
11-30-2009, 07:11 AM
Valks with rocket pods carrying melta armed vets are good. Vendettas are too slow if you want to fire more than one weapon and if they're only firing one weapon they might as well be a valk.

Your mileage may vary

BuFFo
11-30-2009, 07:15 AM
I am just curious...

You know that the Vendetta's Lascannons are twin-linked right?

I don't undestand what you mean about the Vendetta not being good against Transports. My Lascannons love busting AV 12/11/10 vehicles!

Hey, if you don't like it, then try a Valk. No harm in trying something new right?

mercer
11-30-2009, 09:49 AM
Yup I know they're twin linked and they missed more than they hit.

Sorry, my fast typing often turns to mush. I mean once they have popped armour they have no role really.

Lord Azaghul
11-30-2009, 10:18 AM
I tried out a vendetta the other day, wasn't overly impressed. Misses more than it hits and once its busted tanks and transports its not very useful against transports.

I've been thinking of a valkyrie, but I'd take multiple rocket pods and thinking about a lascannon for that single tank busting shot.

Though, I do carry melta vets in skimmers. Perhaps melta a tank then gun dwon transports? Though, two hellhounds follow the gunships and burn anything which comes out.

Just a reminder on the vets - valks and veddettas don't have fire points - so the vets would have to get out to shoot.

back OT: I'm not sure myself. My standard LC's squadrons never do much either -even if they hit thet seem to fail alot of pen rolls, then they like to stun or shake whatever vehicles they do manage to pen.

I haven't picked up one yet (getting 1 for christmas), but I'm leaning heavily toward the rocket pod/ Lascannon set up. I might just magnitize the thing, and/or drop the LC for the multilaser and keep in cheep and disposible.

Forteller
11-30-2009, 10:36 AM
I tried out a vendetta the other day, wasn't overly impressed. Misses more than it hits and once its busted tanks and transports its not very useful against transports.

I've been thinking of a valkyrie, but I'd take multiple rocket pods and thinking about a lascannon for that single tank busting shot.

Though, I do carry melta vets in skimmers. Perhaps melta a tank then gun dwon transports? Though, two hellhounds follow the gunships and burn anything which comes out.

Dunno Personally i love vendettas supported with some heavy artillery,
Use the vendettas to destroy dangerous stuff,then deploy dangerous stuff,and use the basilisks/manticores to destroy other dangerous stuff,but thats just my stuff and it might not match your stuff so donnae..... n' stuff....

mercer
11-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Just a reminder on the vets - valks and veddettas don't have fire points - so the vets would have to get out to shoot.

back OT: I'm not sure myself. My standard LC's squadrons never do much either -even if they hit thet seem to fail alot of pen rolls, then they like to stun or shake whatever vehicles they do manage to pen.

I haven't picked up one yet (getting 1 for christmas), but I'm leaning heavily toward the rocket pod/ Lascannon set up. I might just magnitize the thing, and/or drop the LC for the multilaser and keep in cheep and disposible.

Yes, I know it has no firing points, and my melta vets did get out to shoot. Though I didn't say my melta vets shot out of it :confused:

I'm going to try multiple rocket pods, see how they work. Though a nice combo of pop a transport followed by a demolisher shot, or hellhound fire would work nicely.

DarkLink
11-30-2009, 10:49 AM
Yup I know they're twin linked and they missed more than they hit.

Sorry, my fast typing often turns to mush. I mean once they have popped armour they have no role really.

Against a lot of armies, popping transports is half the battle. And 3 TL BS3 Lascannons will statistically get 2.25 hits per turn.


Really, a Vendetta with a Vet squad with flamers in it makes more sense than a Valkyrie filled with melta vets. A Vendetta can pop a transport from across the board, then fly up and flame it. A Valkyrie needs to get up close, have the vets jump out, and pray that the vets pop the transport before it gets to use all its guns.

weeble1000
11-30-2009, 11:06 AM
If you want lascannons, the Vendetta is the way to go. It is marginally more expensive than a lascannon hvy weapon squad and for that price increase you get: twin-linked, armor, mobility, deep strike, scout, and transport capacity with the ability to disembark passengers at any point along your movement.

Twin-linked BS 3 is about the best you're going to get out of any guard lascannon unless you put hvy wpn teams in a vet squad and hit them with orders. Lascannons are also a little pricy to be put into a disposable Infantry Squad. So, if you want lascannons, get a Vendetta.

Sure, the Vendetta doesn't move a whole lot when you're firing three lascannons, but at 6 inches and fire everything you've got a hell of a lot more mobility than a heavy weapon team. If you are blessedly out of high AV targets, your Vendetta becomes an excellent transport and a fantastic unit with which you can contest objectives late in the game. It also tends to draw plenty of fire which can be an advantage.

I personally don't like to mix combat roles, so when I take a Valk with rocket pods, I keep the multi-laser. Rocket pods are also an expensive upgrade, so throwing a single-shot BS 3 lascannon on your Valk starts to push it out of the realm of disposable wile at the same time diluting it's effectiveness.

Think about what you would shoot with a lascannon. Would you also shoot that thing with rocket pods? Having a lascannon on a rocket pod Valk does mean that you can take a pot shot at a high AV target if you don't have anything worth shooting a brace of rockets at, but I don't think that unlikely situation justifies the point cost. Plus, the multi-laser is S6, so if you really want to take a crack at a vehicle, the Valk's mobility increases the odds of a rear or side armor shot, and you get to shoot three times.

I always put vets in my Vendetta even though I wouldn't move it more than 6 per turn in a perfect game. A vet squad increases the Vendetta's threat potential and makes the vehicle more versitle on the field. Any time you can't shoot but can still move (weapons destroyed, shaken), which is 50% of the vehicle damage chart thanks to extra armor, you can use that as an opportunity to deliver your vet squad. I also equip my Vendetta vets with flamers instead of Meltas. First, its less expensive. But the main reason I do it is because the 48 inch range on a lascannon means that you can deploy the Vendetta about where you want a squad of vets and still be able to hit offending enemy armor. Then you can shimmy your 6 inches to get your vets into position.

Melta vets need to be up close and personal in order to do their job, so I think they're better suited for the more mobile rocket pod Valk. Being able to move 12 inches and still fire means that you can stay out of assault range and then move in close to drop off your vets while still being able to bring the pain. Hell, if you've got first turn you can scout move your Valk 12 inches or so from a land raider. Once the game starts, you disembark your vets, move them within 6 inches of the vehicle, and then move your Valk up to 12 inches away. Now you've repositioned your Valk and set up your Vets to have the best possible chance of busting open that tank while still being able to drop two S4 templates and 3 S6 shots on any exposed infantry.

ColCorbane
11-30-2009, 11:07 AM
I suppose it comes down to what role you want it to fill. In my mech force, I'm planning on having two vendetta's so that I can leave my tanks to deal with the infantry. I'm not really worried about how good they are once the armour is dealt with as they've already done their job, so anything else is a bonus.

BuFFo
11-30-2009, 11:33 AM
Sorry, my fast typing often turns to mush. I mean once they have popped armour they have no role really.

Um, if they can destroy vehicles, um... Didn't they succeed?

For me thats like saying, why take 4 plasma cannons? Once the marine squads are dead they serve no purpose...

You can use them to contest objectives after they bust tanks!

bonedale
11-30-2009, 07:16 PM
I think Vendettas match up great to the heavy support choices. Most heavies use templates which at the end of the day are better troop killers than armor. The Vendetta is what the IG was lacking. Precision, consistent armor busting. The transport ability may be delayed by slower movement. But it can catch up to the chims just fine.

mercer
12-01-2009, 06:58 AM
Um, if they can destroy vehicles, um... Didn't they succeed?

For me thats like saying, why take 4 plasma cannons? Once the marine squads are dead they serve no purpose...

You can use them to contest objectives after they bust tanks!

Your kind of missing my point. Once all the armour has been busted, and only troops left what can it do? It can contest objectives, but thats it.

I'm going to take one vendetta to my next game and one standard valkyrie with a multiple missile pod and see which one I prefer :)

weeble1000
12-01-2009, 07:55 AM
Your kind of missing my point. Once all the armour has been busted, and only troops left what can it do? It can contest objectives, but thats it.

It can deliver a veteran squad, transport units that need to be redeployed, and it could also be used to babysit fleeing units off the board. But suggesting that the vehicle is useless once there's only infantry on the board is a strange point to make. Any unit with a dedicated role is going to be less useful if that role can no longer be or has already been fullfilled. The thing about any Valkyrie chassis vehicle is that they have a wide range of usefulness even if they are stripped of weapons. But this could be said of most units. What do you do with a weaponless tank? Tank shock, contest objectives, provide cover, ram, etc.

If you are designing an all comers list, it makes sense to be prepared for both an infantry horde and mech heavy list, but that doesn't mean that every unit in your army has to be able to deal with both infantry and mech. I think you'll find that an infantry-focused Valkyrie is situationally as "useless" as a mech-focused Vendetta. I think you'll also find that dual-role Valkyrie is less effective on the battle-field. That's certainly okay, but I personally wouldn't want to invest more points in a less effective unit.

DarkLink
12-01-2009, 08:44 AM
Your kind of missing my point. Once all the armour has been busted, and only troops left what can it do? It can contest objectives, but thats it.

I'm going to take one vendetta to my next game and one standard valkyrie with a multiple missile pod and see which one I prefer :)

It sounds like you kinda missed Buffo's point, too. Busting armor is half the battle, nowadays.

Besides, with all the pie plates IG has, you practically don't need your Vendetta to do anything but act as a transport or take potshots once you've blown up all the vehicles. Pieplates can kill everything else, but they need their targets to get out of their transports before they can do anything.

MVBrandt
12-01-2009, 09:49 AM
Great odds at killing transports; can carry something as simple as a 30 point platoon command squad to become fast moving scoring units; can contest objectives either way; etc.

Valks w/ multiple rocket pods are cool, and really devastating to infantry formations, but the problem is that the current metagame is not rife with such targets, and the guard have plenty of ways to deal with those anyway. Vendettas provide you with the capacity to manage vehicles at extreme range, which is a boon to an army that in a lot of situations can't run up close and melta things w/out consequences. Vendettas give you all of the NON COMBAT advantages that Valks do - transport capacity, speed, etc. They give you better firepower to boot, and I think that's where they come into their own.

Chumbalaya
12-01-2009, 10:27 AM
Sounds like a spat of bad luck, it happens.

I like Vendettas for sitting back and sniping, catching units that pop out of their transports or holding scoring units like SWS and PCS.

I like Valks with missile pods for carrying melta Vets or GKs to get them close quickly. It can move 12" and fire everything, so staying mobile never hurts.

LemanRussCommander
01-02-2010, 11:48 PM
Personally i go for the Vendetta. Ok let's say you took out all the enemy armor already (which for guard is always a good thing and if you've busted one enemy armor you've already made up the points of the Vendetta probably) but anyways, side sponson HB for 10pts, so you have 3TL Lascannons plus 2 heavy botlers. Start whitiling down squads that your troops and HW teams can put under 50% and watch them fly off the board. And who doesn't get a little smile on their face when you shoot Gaunts with a Lascannon just for the hell of it

BuFFo
01-02-2010, 11:52 PM
Every time I see this thread I laugh... :p

I never heard a unit's downfall being that after the unit has done its job, it has nothing left to do. :confused:

Simply wow lol.

DarkLink
01-03-2010, 01:33 AM
Valks w/ multiple rocket pods are cool, and really devastating to infantry formations, but the problem is that the current metagame is not rife with such targets, and the guard have plenty of ways to deal with those anyway.

Crux of the argument. A Vendetta filled with a Vet squad with flamers will work better than a Valkyrie filled with melta vets.

A Vendetta will punch armor from across the board. No need to get close. When you've denied them their mobillity, you can manuver to you're lesiure. When you want, you can fly up and hit them with a bunch of flamer templates.

On the other hand, a Valkyrie must get close if you want to jump out a melta-vet squad to blow something up, and the Valkyrie is useless until it has a target. You waste turns sitting around, waiting for a target.

A Vendetta will almost always have something to shoot at, whether it be vehicles or Monstrous Creatures. A Valkyrie will not, unless you're playing horde orks/'nidz.


And I fully agree with Buffo. Not taking a unit because it will succeed at its job doesn't make any sense. I'd love to pay 130pts to automatically destroy all transports in my opponent's army, even if it does nothing else.

Polonius
01-03-2010, 07:29 AM
This thread reminded me of a great Penny Arcade:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/9/6/

I agree that vendettas with flamers are great. You can rock vets, or to save a few points take a SWS with trip flamers. I still really enjoy CCS with meltas in a valk though.

MVBrandt
01-03-2010, 07:53 AM
This is why in laid back games I take Straken guard. So I can take vendettas, chimeras, and meltavets ... and when I go up against things that all the anti-armor can't quite kill all of, I charge them. Flamers are for panzies.

Note: laid back games ;)

RocketRollRebel
01-03-2010, 08:07 AM
I tend to take one MMP/ML valk and a vendetta (both with melta vets) in my take all comers lists and it really works wonders. Normally the valk buzzes up early in the game and is being obnoxious and slowing down the advance while the vendetta just chills back and zaaps stuff until its time to go grab an objective. I may try that 3 flamer squad in the vendetta tho because I have had games where the melta vets in the vendetta didnt even need to get out of their transport.