Witch Hunters: Army list suggestions please

[geneticdeviant]

I have the use of a witch hunters army but am not sure how to use them having just read the codex for the first time. I'm looking for suggestions for a 1000pt, 1500pt and 2000pt army list. I play alot against nids, blood angels, necrons and imperial guard. Looking for balanced, competitive lists please.

Thanks in advance

[Melissia]

If you want a purely competitive list, ignore the following units:

Inquisitor Lords, Inquisitors, Assassins, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, Sisters Repentia, Arco-Flagellants, and Penitent Engines.

Build a list focusing around the following:

Core force of Battle Sisters in rhinos (Heavy Flamer / Meltagun setup, with a basic bolter as the Sister Superior)
two or three units of Exorcists as heavy support
A Fast Attack squad of Seraphim
A Canoness, either with jump pack attached to Seraphim, or with a Celestian retinue in a rhino.

All squads should have a Book of St. Lucius. Depending on points value and taste, combimeltas or eviscerators on Sister Superiors are acceptable. Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol works good on the assault-oriented Seraphim.

Tactics mostly focus on movement, attempting to get a very good turn of rapid fire with the "Divine Guidance" Act of Faith. Seraphim can pull anti-tank duty and anti-arty duty with their krak nades and inferno pistols. Exorcists pull anti-tank and anti-transport duty, depending on the most valuable targets-- best not to go after AV14 unless it's the only target it has to face off aginst (better to kill some teriminators than a land raider, for example). Retributors can be useful against Tyranids and Guard, with their many heavy bolters, so you might wnat to work them in. Dominians really aren't worth it except in very high points games, and even then they're inefficient. Celestians generally aren't worth it unless you already have filled up your Troops choices or want a counter-charge unit, in which case you'd really want to have a canoness+celestians as retinue anyway, which doesn't take up an Elites slot in the first place.



This is, in essence, the core of any competitive Witch Hunters force. Yes, half the codex is outdated and therefor useless as far as competitive play goes. I really love Penitent Engines and I love the models and fluff behind Repentia, but both of these units perform poorly or just nowhere near as good as othe runits would for the same price-- ANYTHING in the case of Repentia, and Exorcists in the case of Penitent Engines.

[Dwarflord17404]

Beside what Meliisa has said which is very acurate except about power weapons. Sisters are st 3 so power weapons are garbage at 15 points.

The second thing I want to focus on is wargear for your cannoness
Blessed weapon, cloak of st aspira, frags, book of st luc are mandatory
mantle of ophelia is nice for 15 points and Litanies of faith which gives you a act of faith for free are standard for 1850 and above. Never give her a fancy pistol they are a points sink and a rosarius is a waste because her 2+ becomes inv with a leadership ck (act of faith) Also never attach her to seraphim she is best on her own . using her speed to support holes in your lines.


Thrid I have included a sample 1500 point list I never play less then this. to ramp it up to 1850 Take squads of 5 celstians in immolators with 2 melta guns. Anyway on to the list.

Cannoness blessed wpn, frag grenades, Book of st luc, jump pack, mantle of ophelia, Cloak of St. Aspira
(all around good build supports the "rhino rush")

9 Battle sisters with melta/hvy flamer Sister supereior with book of st luc and evc. In a Rhino extra armour smoke launchers

9 Battle sisters with melta/hvy flamer Sister supereior with book of st luc . In a Rhino extra armour smoke launchers

9 Battle sisters with 2 flamers Sister supereior with book of st luc and bol;ter flamer. In a Rhino extra armour smoke launchers ( trip flamer with divine guidance is vicious)

9 Battle sisters with 2 flamers Sister supereior with book of st luc and Bolter-flamer. In a Rhino extra armour smoke launchers

2 Exorcists extra armour and pintle storm bolter
( need extra armour to get out of the way of melta spam and the second weapon to continue moving )

5 Seraphim with 2 inferno pistols and vet sister with evc and book of st luc.
( can opener for tanks use faith to make their save inv blow up raider and use the triple flamer and divine guidance to roast inhabinets)


The key with being successfull with siters is always use 2 units to 1 of your oppenents . Esaier said then done I know. Good luck

[Valkerie]

If your opponent will allow, take Repressors rather than Rhinos. The stats are available from Forgeworld as a free download in Imperial Armor. For about 15 points more, you get the dozer blade upgrade, a heavy flamethrowerto go with the stormbolter, and the ability to have six Sisters fire their bolters from the fire points, and one Sister fire any weapon from the top hatch. It gives you decent protection and mobility, and the ability to lay down some impressive short range firepower.

[Just_Me]

If your opponent will allow, take Repressors rather than Rhinos.

I have never understood the idea that your opponent can disallow units that are from an official source, it's silly. If you are in a tournament and their rules forbid it, that is bad enough, but that your opponent gets to have any say in what you can or can't take? That frankly makes no sense to me. Sure you should both be having fun, but how do a couple of Forgeworld models really mess up their day that much? If I paid for them, I should damn well get to use them if I want...

Sorry, pet peeve of mine...

Anyway, the above advice is solid, and I won't presume to second guess it. On the other hand, Acro-flagellants and Penitent Engines are so cool I would have a hard time passing them up. And Inquisitor Lords are kinda badass with some nifty psychic powers, I'm not sure they should be dismissed out of hand, though the Canoness is probably the best HQ option.

[DarkLink]

Well, technically Forgeworld is only semi-official, but no one in my gaming group complains about me buying 35pt Rhinos for my allied Sisters from the Forgeworld rules.


Either way, I've found it very beneficial to fit an Eviscerator in every squad I can. That may have to do with the fact that my Eviscerators have killed more vehicles after assaulting than the squad's dual meltaguns within 6" range have :rolleyes:.

Note, though, that I only use a pair of allied Sister squads, sometimes only one, and they get thrown into the grinder to distract the enemy. Eviscerators are useful for this, and they do a brilliant job, but pretty much never live through a game. Playing pure Sisters, you probably won't need that many Eviscerators, at least not in every single squad.

Definately stay away from power weapons, regardless. If you want a power weapon, either go for an Eviscerator or a Blessed weapon.

[Katie Drake]

Just wanting to echo some of the above post. Eviscerators are brutally effective weapons that are far and away superior to normal power weapons. Don't waste points on power weapons for your squads of Battle Sisters. About the only unit that can make good use of a normal power weapon is Seraphim, but even then I'm of the opinion that the Eviscerator is a better choice. The Blessed Weapon is better than the Eviscerator in the hands of a Canoness.

[Just_Me]

Well, technically Forgeworld is only semi-official, but no one in my gaming group complains about me buying 35pt Rhinos for my allied Sisters from the Forgeworld rules.

I don't want to derail the topic (maybe I should start another thread), but this just isn't true. It was specifically addressed in IA Vol. 2; the Forgeworld authors themselves find the idea of dictating your opponent's list to be bizarre and irrational. IA rules are totally official, and you only need permission to use them insofar as you need your opponent's consent to play a game in the first place, beyond that it's your list, you can play whatever you want to as long as you are within the published rules (unless you are playing a narrative game of some sort where points and force org. aren't relevant).

[Katie Drake]

I don't want to derail the topic (maybe I should start another thread), but this just isn't true. It was specifically addressed in IA Vol. 2; the Forgeworld authors themselves find the idea of dictating your opponent's list to be bizarre and irrational. IA rules are totally official, and you only need permission to use them insofar as you need your opponent's consent to play a game in the first place, beyond that it's your list, you can play whatever you want to as long as you are within the published rules (unless you are playing a narrative game of some sort where points and force org. aren't relevant).

That's all well and fine. The Forge World authors can write whatever the want at the beginnings of their books. Fact is, many GW run events (like Grand Tournaments and similar) don't allow Forge World rules, thus a lot of Independently run events won't, which leads to people not using Forge World models in friendly games.

People can complain and try to rationalize it until the cows come home, but the reality of the situation is that many people aren't cool with Forge World rules, especially in more competitive environments.

[Melissia]

My default response is that those kinds of people can kiss my ***.

The eviscerator drops the Seraphim superior's initiative to 1, meaning that the eviscerator is actually not as good against anything I3 or lower, and isn't as helpful against T3 or lower. It's a matter of taste, but the dude said he's facing off aginst Tyranids and Guard, and so T3/I3 or T3/I4 is normal (Against genestealers, it makes very little difference in my experience, better to deal with them in the shooting phase). The extra attack will mean another possible wound, and the points you save can be spent elsewhere.

Also, Power Weapons in C:WH are ten points, not fifteen. I would personally never give an eviscerator to a Battle Sister Sister Superior, ever-- if I give her anything other than a basic bolter, I'd give her a combimelta or combiflamer depending on the squad's setup (combimelta if the squad has HF/F, combiflamer if the squad has HF/M).

[Just_Me]

That's all well and fine. The Forge World authors can write whatever the want at the beginnings of their books. Fact is, many GW run events (like Grand Tournaments and similar) don't allow Forge World rules, thus a lot of Independently run events won't, which leads to people not using Forge World models in friendly games.

People can complain and try to rationalize it until the cows come home, but the reality of the situation is that many people aren't cool with Forge World rules, especially in more competitive environments.

Tournaments, be they GW or private, can outlaw whatever they want, they are artificially created competitive environments where the rules are tuned to what the organizers see as fair. There are some Tournaments that have outlawed specific builds or codex models. The point is if you go to a tournament then it presupposes that you agree to abide by their rules, whatever they may be.

The problem comes with pickup games where the agreement is that both parties will abide by the body of rules pertaining to 40k, because they don't know each other and don't have time to create their own set of rules guidelines. In this case the FW rules are just as official as those directly from GW, so *you* (my opponent) can't tell me what I can and can't choose from among them any more than you can dictate what choices I can make from my codex. The best they can do is force my hand by being petty and refusing to play against me, but that is no more based on legality than refusing to play against an poorly painted army (although that should be illegal :D). If I choose to show my opponent the courtesy of asking if they have a problem with my army choices (which I make a point of doing), then that is all it is, a courtesy, I am in no way legally obligated to do so, and certainly not legally obligated to change my army to suit them.

On the subject of Eviscerators; I'm not sure that the loss of initiative is that bad. Generally if your "I" is 3 (or, emperor forbid, less) then you might as well take a Powerfist (or analogue thereof), if it is 5 or better, then sacrificing it is probably a mistake (unless you have really great durability to make up for it). Keep in mind that on high initiative models part of the cost of the model is its initiative. 4 is a tricky value, it's only about average when compared to most of the armies played, so it's about a 50/50 choice.

[Valkerie]

I've never had a problem with using my Repressors. If it's the first time I've played the person, I had over a copy of the rules and say 'I have several of these." Usually, he reads it, says something along the lines of 'Cool', and away we go. If they have some questions, then I'll answer them and explain anything they're uncertain about. The main reason I do this is because I hate it when people spring surprise uber killy vehicles on their opponents in the middle of the game. This way, they know what they're facing from the get go. This also means that, on the rare occasion when I win, they can't claim it was because they didn't know about my gear ahead of time. And, it's just polite. I've found that being polite to each other generally makes for a better game for both.

The only caveat I would give, if yoou're going to use FW models, take a copy of the rules with you. That way, if there's any question, you've got the answer right there. That nips a lot of the problems in the bud.

[DarkLink]

It was kinda nice when there was a typo in the FW rules, and repressors got extra armor for +5pts. Too bad that got fixed:rolleyes:.

[Bard of Twilight]

Well,I suppose that you kmow better than me, but I think that for all purposes, Callidus Assasins rock and for a more witch-hunting Witch Huntes army, Cullexus are 2nd to none.:)

[Melissia]

Maybe, but then you have to include an inquisitor, and therefor reduce the effectiveness of your army by including a crappy unit. And they really are, they're generally subpar in melee, and overpriced in shooting. And worse, they don't have the synergy that Sororitas units have with the Faith Point pool.

[Just_Me]

The only caveat I would give, if yoou're going to use FW models, take a copy of the rules with you. That way, if there's any question, you've got the answer right there. That nips a lot of the problems in the bud.

Well, that goes without saying, I don't think it's ever fair the assume that your opponent be intimately acquainted with all of your army's rules (though many are). Why should a Necron player be expected to know all the intricacies of my Guard army? I am always willing to let an opponent look at my rules, before, during, and after the game. It makes the game go more smoothly and more of a learning experience for both parties.

[Dwarflord17404]

Evisacrator is usefull in the hands of seraphim because besides being a power fist it also adds 2 d6 to armour penatration which combined with 2 t/l melta pistols and 3 bodies gives you a small anti-armour unit that hides well and does alot of damage to armour 14 vechiles which are a very common site. I relize the person who started the post plays mostly t 3 opp but power weapons only wounds on 4 and if evryone starts playing marines that 4 goes to 5. No the evisrator is more utalitarian chooice.

[DarkLink]

Maybe, but then you have to include an inquisitor, and therefor reduce the effectiveness of your army by including a crappy unit. And they really are, they're generally subpar in melee, and overpriced in shooting. And worse, they don't have the synergy that Sororitas units have with the Faith Point pool.

Anything Inquisitors do, Grey Knights or Sisters do better.

Edit: Except for mystics. No one else can really do that.

[faolan]

Of course, if you want to play it competitively, look at the FAQ and induct some Guard as well.

[Melissia]

You don't have to induct Guard to play Witch Hunters competitively.

[faolan]

It's definitely not compulsory to do so. But it's fun and doesn't hurt, eh Mel?

[DarkLink]

Well, how fun it is depends on how much you like guard units. I personally like Sisters of Battle much more than Guard. Thus, when I use allies in my Grey Knights, I use Sisters, not Guard.

[Melissia]

Actually yes, it CAN hurt. The more points you dedicate to the Guard, the fewer points you have giving you Faith Points.

[Aegis]

So much hate for the Inquisitors...

They can be effective units, when used right. Admittedly, when using them, you do have to build a list around them, but in my experience, that does not necessarily mean a loss of power. I just think people have gotten so used to way to play the codex as it was, and do not necessarily see other ways of using in 5th. However, I digress, and am not looking to hijack the thread, or start a fight.

Some nice uses of Inquisitor and retinues are things like tar-pits, surgical strikes (especially when using the Inquisitorial Valkyrie in IA2), back line defenders. I believe firmly in their versatility simply based upon the lovely amounts of wargear they have access to, the ability to pad their unit with the retinue, which not only gives extra warm bodies/attacks/wounds, but allows the Inquisitor to shrug off potential mortal shots, as well as increase the Inquisitor's stats for a minor cost.

There have been a number of occasions where my Canoness has fled the battle, while my Inquisitor with his iron will has withstood the tide. I have also made my Inquisitor and retinue something be feared in a fair number of LGS in Southern Ontario, simply because nobody expects him... (sorry about that one...).

Also, he does open up the option for assassins, which can really cause some fun psychological tricks on your opponent (especially the Callidus).

Basically, all I am saying, is do not discount the Inquisitors out of hand. They are a fun, and flavourful unit with a myriad of uses. It is simply a matter of choosing a role, and sticking to it.

[Melissia]

And putting up with the loss of power involved in selecting them. Because yes, there is a loss in power. Regardless of the versatility of the unit, intelligently used Sisters units tend to be more durable, more reliable, and more damaging overall than any setup that I've ever seen for Inquisitors.

[Just_Me]

The real issue is that,due to the Faith mechanic, Sisters function best as pure Sisters. The more Faith you can generate and units that can take advantage of it, the better. Also, as Mel said they (generally) tend to be synergistic, so the more of them you have, the better they function. That and they look cool all together :D.

If you want to use an Inquisitor, you have to focus your list around him. To be competitive you have to use him for the allies. You could potentially put together quite a power build combining Guard and Space Marines. Personally, that doesn't appeal to me that much, on the other hand Inquisitors can be used to create super flavorful armies that aren't terribly competitive (e.g. my Ordos Xenos army built with the Witch Hunters list).

[Dwarflord17404]

It is sad to say but the only effective inqustor is a ordo-malleus inq and that is because of his mystics henchman. AS far as combined list go. I play a guard army with sister allies that does very well. The problem I found with a n all sisters army is lack of pie plates and long range fire power. The reason being that most of the prayers are geared toward hosing Meq and in the current meta game orks and guard comprise like half the armies you might face at a tournie and massed bolter fire wreaks these armies anyway. So even though I only have 5 faith points I make up for with a manticore, a demolisher with plsma cannon sponsons and a russ with trip bolters not to metion the master of ordance and the vets in chimera with triple special weapons. So even though I lose out on faith Igain so much more here is my 1850 list :

Company Command master of fleet and ordance

Cannoness jump pack, blessed weapon, mantle, cloak, book of st Luc frags and litnies

10 vets with 3 melta in Chimera extra armour

10 vets with 2 plasma in chimera extra armour

10 sisters vet siter superior evc and book, melta heavy flamer rhino with trimmings

10 sisters vet sister with book and melta bombs melta, heavy flamer rhino with trimmings

8 seraohim inferno pistol, flame pistol, vet superior with evc and book

demolisher nose las cannon plasma cannon sponsons

russ with trip heavy bolters

manticore

[DarkLink]

Yeah, Inquisitors aren't so great, because there are units that do their job better.

A SoB Cannoness and Grey Knight Hero are both significantly better in CC than any Inquisitor of the same cost will be, the Cannoness thanks to Blesssed Weapons and Faith Points, and the GK Hero due to a fantastic statline and equipment (with the exception of only being WS5, not 6:()

And while firebase Inquisitor units are decent, they don't serve much of a role in either army. They can work, but Grey Knights don't really need a few extra Heavy Bolters, they need more anit-tank. Sisters don't need them, either, and have superior alternatives.

[Melissia]

To go with what DarkLink said about a firebase Inquisitor... an Inquisitor with three heavy bolters in his retinue costs roughly the same as a retributor squad with four heavy bolters. And that assumes the inquisitor has no equipment himself, IE, just power armor and no weapons, and no psychic attacks. And the Inquisitor's heavy bolters are protected by only a 4+ save, and don't have access to Acts of Faith (12 heavy bolter shots that possibly count as AP1 is devastating against most units in the game).

[Aegis]

I will not beat what is obviously becoming a dead horse, and will continue to enjoy the use of my Inquisitor I suppose. Different strokes, I guess. Besides, who knows what will happen when the new book comes out.

[imperialsavant]

;) Just one suggestion from my point of view.
I always take 2 exorcists & one squad of Retributors (Heavy Support choice) usually 9 or 10 with 4 Heavy Bolters vs Hord Army or 3 HBs & 1 M/Melta against Armour/Mech. If points allow I add an Imagifer who helps the squad pass Faith Acts.

[DarkLink]

I will not beat what is obviously becoming a dead horse, and will continue to enjoy the use of my Inquisitor I suppose. Different strokes, I guess. Besides, who knows what will happen when the new book comes out.

It's not so much that Inquisitors are horrible units, just that there are more competitive units that fulfill the same role as Inquisitors. Personally, I just don't use them because I love me my Grey Knights:D. And when I need a competitive boost, I toss in some allied Sisters for bodies and melta.

[Melissia]

Oh, I would actually argue that they're horrible units for the most part :P They have good flavor for people who actually like the Inquisition as an army (IE, not me), but they really aren't gonna help you win unless you abuse certain combos.

[DarkLink]

Firebase Inquisitors are decent. CC Inquisitors... not so much.

[Melissia]

Firebase Inquisitors are decent. CC Inquisitors... not so much.
Decent by the "average, mediocre" definition, but certainly not GOOD. As I said before, Retributors do it better for less :P

[Aegis]

I am inclined to agree that is much that can be improved upon, regarding the Inquisitors. I am just trying to show they are not a unit that is worthless. But again, it comes down to preference and personal experience.


I always take 2 exorcists & one squad of Retributors (Heavy Support choice) usually 9 or 10 with 4 Heavy Bolters vs Hord Army or 3 HBs & 1 M/Melta against Armour/Mech. If points allow I add an Imagifer who helps the squad pass Faith Acts.

Against horde, I would almost forget the Retributors, and use Dominions with flamers in an Immolator (wither the TL Heavy Flamer or TL Heavy Bolter, both are nice). That way, you still have a heavy slot for that third Exorcist (which, really is an amazing piece of hardware). Additionally, it gives you some mobility and protection, making it awesome for driving up to an objective/horde, placing 4-5 flame templates and letting rip... Especially if you have a little faith, and make all those 6's you roll to wound AP1.

[DarkLink]

Retributors mixed with Divine Guidance (psuedo-rending) are death to anything like terminators that show their faces within 36" of the squad. So they're not just anti-horde. Their only real disadvantage is that they take up a slot that you could put an exorcist in, which may or may not be a problem.

[Melissia]

And you should definitely not have more than one retributor squad unless you're going all-infantry.

[Aegis]

Retributors mixed with Divine Guidance (psuedo-rending) are death to anything like terminators that show their faces within 36" of the squad. So they're not just anti-horde. Their only real disadvantage is that they take up a slot that you could put an exorcist in, which may or may not be a problem.

My only concern with using the Retributors, even with Divine Guidance, is that the Sisters seem to need to be very mobile, for the most part (and in my experience), and having a unit stand and shoot, even in a piece of armour (poor armour, even), seems to hurt more.

Everything about the effective sisters units just scream getting up close and personal... Or at least within mid range.

[DarkLink]

From my experience using a few allied Sister squads, a couple stationary units aren't a problem, aside from being vulnerable to outflankers and deepstrikers.

I've found that if I throw the Sister squads out front and let them burninate things, the center field becomes a chaotic mess. If it were a whole army of Sisters, then a Retributor squad wouldn't have to worry about something sneaking through all the chaos, as the enemy has more immediate threats to deal with.

[Melissia]

Chaotic mess? I love chaotic messes! They really force my opponents to make mistakes. I mean hard decisions.

[imperialsavant]

And you should definitely not have more than one retributor squad unless you're going all-infantry.

;) Totally Agree Melissa!
My 3 Heavy Support slots are always 2 x Exorcists & 1 squad Retributers with all H/Bolters or a mix of HBs & M/Meltas.

[The West Coast Knight]

OK I also agree with Melissia but I do not think you should shy away from Dominions
I am running a five woman team in an Immolater with Heavy Flamers and four of the ladies are armed with flamers
The ability to move 12" Fire the HF and have the unit jump out and fire their 4 Flamers and possibly make them AP1 is awesome.

I recently ranked up 30 hits on a Steeler brood and then added some Mustard.

I even add a Cannoness with the Burning brazier to this unit in some games for five flamer shots

Also taking a 20 point Inquisitor just so you can then take the Assassin is not a dumb tactic.
After all having a CC Assassin out flank and wipe out a unit all by themselves keeps your opponent from shooting at the woman sitting on objectives.

[Melissia]

1: Dominians are far too expensive due to the increased price for their special weapons.

2: They would have to roll five or under on a 2d6 in order to get Divine Guidance in a five-woman squad.

3: For the same price, Battle Sisters do it better, and they're scoring units beside.