Hello!

[labmouse42]

Hello all!

I've been reading BoLS page for about a year now, and finally decided to register and get on the forums.

I've been fairly active on Dakka in the past.

I run a segment called 'Simhammer' on the 11th company podcast if anyone listens to it.

labmouse42 (DJ)

[Psychosplodge]

We won't hold any of that against you :D
well mostly...
And come to the oubliette we have new tangents ;)
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me3rf45vyp1r1gkido1_400.gif

[Wolfshade]

Hello and welcome aboard!

After 5 posts you can get enhanced privileges so you can start to do sightly more!


What armies do you play?

[labmouse42]

Hello and welcome aboard!

After 5 posts you can get enhanced privileges so you can start to do sightly more!


What armies do you play?I've got 2 C:SM armies that I'm playing right now, and I have an aspect warrior eldar list for casual play.

[Wolfshade]

How do you normally run them?

[labmouse42]

How do you normally run them?I have two C:SM lists. I'm still playing with the exacts of them, toying with various units, etc. This is how I am currently running the first list at 1750
165 - Tigurius
100 - Rune Priest
125 - Storm Talon w/SkyHammer
125 - Storm Talon w/SkyHammer
125 - Storm Talon w/SkyHammer
231 - Storm Raven w/MM, AC, Hurricane Bolters, Searchlight
231 - Storm Raven w/MM, AC, Hurricane Bolters, Searchlight
231 - Storm Raven w/MM, AC, Hurricane Bolters, Searchlight
175 - 10 man Tactical Squad w/drop pod
175 - 10 man Tactical Squad w/drop pod
170 - 9 Grey Hunters w/drop pod

This is what I've learned about playing it thus far.
Game Turns and going second
"Likewise, if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins".
p122 of the BRB

"In a complete game turn, each player gets a player turn"
p9 of the BRB

So as long as you have some models dropping down by the end of your turn you cannot lose via not having models.
It also means that if I go second, I can drop 2 empty pods onto the table, and then reserve everything else in the last pod and storm ravens. My opponent will probably get first blood and kill a pod, but I will still have most of my army coming in on the bottom of turn 2.
This is the ideal case, as it effectively removes 2 turns of my opponents shooting for the possibility of giving first blood.

Reserve Denial
You could actually start with 1 unit that does not have to start in reserve, yet still reserve them.
This is because you are able to normally reserve 1/2 of your army - rounding up. If you have only 1 unit in my army that can reserve (as all the rest are forced in reserve and do not count for the limit) then the number is .5, which rounded up is 1.
Ergo, you could add a LSS and scout squad to the 'death from the skies' list and not face any problems.
ICs count as a separate unit for the count, so you cannot add an IC and squad in a rhino and reserve them. You get only 1 thing, so make it count.

Reserving units in Storm Ravens
Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves?
(p124)
A: No.

This FAQ mentions Valkyries which cannot be taken as dedicated transports. This means that if you indicate that Tiggy is in the Drop Pod and the 5 man is in a Storm Raven, both of those units are in transports which must start in reserve. Thus, it is possible for you to have no units counting towards the minimum.

Note, this would let me add dreadnoughts to the army as an option to reserve and deep strike. Its a same dreadnoughts suck.

So you can play the reserve game, but can you win?
The skies of death list with 3 ravens and 3 talons will put out this every turn.
36 - TL Bolter Shots
12 - TL BS5 AC shots
12 - TL BS4 AC shots
3 - TL MM shots
3 - STR 8 AP2 missiles
9 - BS 5 STR 7 AP4 shots.

When it comes to damage output against infantry, you need to have 7 wave serpents to match the firepower*. In my games I was finding that I could just erase squads at a turn with little or no risk of return fire.

Unlike the wave serpents which bring just STR 6/7 spam, the skies of death brings lots of AP1 shots, 3 melta shots and lots of AP4 shots. This means that the overall impact to some armies (guard) will be much higher.

( That's 7 serpents shooting just serpent shield and SL. If you include the underslung shooting at normal BS, 5 serpents match the same firepower. If you include the underslung shooting as a snap fire, 6 serpents make the same firepower)

Learning to Fly
One of the challenges I've learned is that flying 6 flyers on a board is actually rather hard to coordinate. You want to be within 12" to take full advantage of your hurricane bolters, but you need to worry about overshooting your target. In this effect, rushing up the middle of the board is generally a bad thing. You need to have room to maneuver to the left or right 18" and still have a target.

So the best flight pattern is to move 3 flyers up each side of the board focusing on a target. Lets call these squadren Alpha and Beta. Use the right flyers at the right targets. Talons are better at killing high toughness targets like bikes or big bugs, where ravens are good at clearing infantry or heavy armor. So if there are big bugs on the left side of the board, bring 1 raven and 2 talons up that side, and your 2 ravens and 1 talon up the other.

After you have flown up and shot, your going to want to move force Alpha up to 90 degrees and shoot another target on turn 3. Ideally you should hit 2 other units during this time. On turn 4, you want to fly one force off the board to ensure you have board presence on turn 5. If your planning on dropping units onto objectives, this is a good time to do that with those units. Your other squad can move up and shoot up any deck chairs your opponent has. On turn 5, you can drop onto objectives and/or go into hover mode at the back side of your opponents board, clearing off his deck chairs and lining you up for another strafing run if the game goes to 6 and 7.

As you can imagine, this makes playing 'hammer and anvil' more difficult, as you have less flexibility to move around. The advantage of hammer and anvil is that you can more easily protect your backfield units.

This is complicated, and I've not mastered it yet. In another 3 months I may be saying 'I was making crazy talk' and changing my plans dramatically. I've also not played a wave serpent spam player yet -- I might just say that its hard countered by serpent spam. Like all battle strategies, it will also evaporate at first contact with the enemy

Putting it Together
Tigurius, 3 storm ravens and 3 storm talons cost 1230 points. This means that your going to have some people to burn depending on the total value of the mission. This means that your total investment in flyers will be 1230/(army cost) defined as a percentage. So if your playing a 2000 point game, your bringing 61.5% points invested in flyers/tiggy. If your playing a 1500 point game your bringing 82% of flyers/tiggy.

The ratio of flyers you want can go no higher than 82%, as you will need at least 1500 points to get 2 drop pods and 5 man squads. Even at 1500, you might want to consider dropping a talon in favor of more troops, to lower the percentage of points you have invested in flyers/tiggy.

[Psychosplodge]

:eek:

Very well thought out...

[labmouse42]

How do you normally run them?My second marine army is a standard bike army filled with grav guns. This is the list at 1500

245 - Chapter Master w/bike PF, Shield of Eternal, Artificer Armor
161 - 6 bikes w/2 grav guns + meltabombs
161 - 6 bikes w/2 grav guns + meltabombs
161 - 6 bikes w/2 grav guns + meltabombs
161 - 6 bikes w/2 grav guns + meltabombs
161 - 6 bikes w/2 grav guns + meltabombs
100 - Thunderfire Cannon
100 - Thunderfire Cannon
125 - Stormtalon with Skyhammer
125 - Stormtalon with Skyhammer

[Wolfshade]

Indeed very well thought out.

Do you record your battle reports? It might be interesting to see this in action.

The amount of reserves coming in on each time would also help minimise the effect of interceptor rules. Hmm, curious.

[labmouse42]

I'll try to get some pics and produce battle reports. Normally I take pics of my games so I can look back on them at a later date and reflect on what I did right and what I did wrong.

Tigurius is part of what makes the drop pod list work. I call him a 'Comm Relay in a Can', since he lets you reroll reserves. This means you can ensure that your flyers all have a 8/9 chance of coming in, and most of them should arrive. As you mentioned, that really limits interceptor.