Got cheated today...

[Aspire to Glory]

Played a 40k competitive campaign game at my FLGS, today.

I'm pretty new, so I don't know much about other armies, so I have to be trusting that opponents will be forthright about their armies.

My necron opponent was very dishonest. He lied about many of his army's rules and took advantage of me at any opportunity.

I had a funny feeling and checked the 'cron dex and discovered just how much he had lied the entire time. A couple of his claims cost me the game.

Apparently this guy does it all the time. Usually an experienced player hangs out nearby to prevent it but everyone was in a game this time. Wish I had known that ahead of time. :(

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Yeah, there are people like that who really will take advantage of new players, then wonder why eventually no one will frelling play with the guy. He plays with the newbies because he can take advantage of your lack of experience. Screw that guy. Least you know about this guy now, and you can hopefully account for it over time. Over time as you play more you will get a feeling, even when you don't know your enemies army, when something doesn't sound right. Sorry you had to deal with that crap though hon.

[Aspire to Glory]

Yeah ah well.

I had some weird instinctual suspicions during the match, but kept to mostly asking him to confirm his claims.

I'll politely ask to check rules "for my learning purposes", in the future.

[Mr Mystery]

What did he lie about? Hard to contribute without that info.

[Asuryan]

this is why when ever I'm playing an army that I don't know or any army with a new codex I read the rule my self, I find that 25% of the time the person has missed something in their rule and is doing something wrong but its not a big deal. Now the purposefully cheating thing is just disrespectful to others and the game. Next time either play fair and know when he is lying and kick his butt, or make up your own rules and let him keep his.

[Aspire to Glory]

What did he lie about? Hard to contribute without that info.

He claimed
1) that the res orb gave his ICs two reanimation rolls.
2) rear armor on his barges was 13
3) that his rods of the covenant hit on init
4) his units don't phase out if an IC is attached
5) that he gets to pick who mindshackle scarabs affect
6) quantum shielding stayed up even if he took a pen
More that escapes me

1 & 2 cost me the game

[Mr Mystery]

In his defence (not justifying, just saying)

1) yeah that's rubbish.
2) common misconception. Often quoted on the interwebs.
3) only covered in an FAQ. Possible he's not read it.
4) Necrons don't phase out at all. Though I'm guessing it means he kept rolling for resurrection, which is indeed nonsense
5) yes and no.... They only affect base to base, so a cunning charge or timely challenge means one can indeed ensure the right target suffers.
6) yeah he lied big time. If so, the AV would just be 13.

[jonas the jedi]

Another good idea is to ask to see it in his dex... say not to trying to be a jerk I just want to read the rule to help me learn it. The mind shackle scarabs you'd have to reference an faq and blah, blah, blah. But any one who would lure about av is a tool. Some mistakes well happen through interpretation etc. But if a person is not willing to converse intellectually about it...

[SaveModifier]

Just don't play him again and make sure everyone else in the local area does the same, he'll soon change his ways

[phreakachu]

here in DSM iowa, we send those players to Jays CD and Hobby.

[knas ser]

Best solution, don't play him again. If he whines tell him you're not going to because he cheats. If you occasionally don't get a game because he's the only one available - meh, there are worse things. I have no time for those who cheat.

If you're in a tournament and end up playing him, drive his forces off the table and wipe the floor with him - revenge is delicious.

[DWest]

In re: both Iowa and revenge; we had a good one a few months back at the FLGS in Cedar Falls, IA-- a guy with a prettymuch state-wide reputation as a cheat and a jerk brought a Horus Heresy list to our monthly 1850 game. He made it 1 1/2 games before being booted out on bad behavior. Afterward, though, we found out that 1) his "1850" list was more like 2300, because he didn't think anybody would know the HH stuff well enough to check him and 2) his first round opponent wiped the floor with him anyway.

[Jstncloud]

I don't post on the forums much (if ever) but I did want to comment on this thread.

First of all, it is a damn shame that someone would cheat 'at all' to win at a game like this, in the end he is only cheating himself. If he feels satisfied with a cheating-win that is fine but something at his core has to take away from that win, a true-win I feel is much sweeter.

Second, never 'ever' hesitate to see a codex and read a rule, if someone refuses they are being a poor sport. I question rules all the time and ask to see books accordingly, I don't play daemons so when something insane happens I like to read the rules myself (to help learn it but also to help keep the other guy honest).

Thirdly, be honest with your opponents as well. When I was a battlemaster/gamemaster for various games at our FLGS it was considered cheating if you yourself let your opponent break the rules or do something wrong and did not say anything. That sounds kind of redundant or counterproductive but if someone does something 'wrong' and you let them because it benefits you then it is the same as cheating. (Difference between 'wrong' and 'tactically bad choice).

I also have found that when I make a mistake and do not realize it until I reference a rule later in a game or at a later date, I let my opponent(s) know. This has worked well for me personally because it has kept me honest and when I make a mistake my gaming friends know I will own up to it and correct it if I find out. For example, I played a game this past week and forgot (the whole game -.-) to roll 'gets hot' on my Riptide against someone. It's 'cheating' if made a conscious effort not to make the role but I honestly forgot he had that and thought he only had 'gets hot' when he overcharged. Let my previous opponent know what mistake I made and try to do better to catch it.

40k (and other games) are social games where players, while trying to destroy their toy soldiers, should be conversing and having a good time. If you end the game win or lose and feel like it was a headache, torture, and no fun, then you might want to re-evaluate the armies being played and whom you are playing. After all, who wants to blow several hours on a game and feel miserable through the process.

[Anggul]

I find this sort of thing bizarre. It's a game, if you cheat then you're losing out just as much as the other person because it isn't as fun a game any more. I've never understood the mindset of 'I must win this game even if I have to cheat... which means I haven't actually won the game at all because I broke the rules, thus making it a different game.' It's not like they gain anything out of it. Truly sad.

I would just tell him to his face that he cheated and make it clear to everyone else not to play him if he continues to do so.

[Paint Grot]

Just be thankful you've just got that one cheat. There's a FLGS in the Metro Detroit area that has a whole group of cheats. They show up without codexes and rulebooks, their lists are crude typed out papers(not even army builder), whenever a question comes up they quote the rules "from memory", and they chased away almost everyone else. They play each other just to see who can out cheat who or beat up on anyone new that shows up. They actually hold their own events and tournaments because they have been either banned from or been caught cheating at so many local and regional events that noone trusts them.

[Alex Aggro]

There's usually a guy like this in any given shop or game club. There was this one guy, way back when it was still 3rd edition, who would run stuff from 2nd edition codexes against new players, and generally just lie his *** off against players who couldn't know any better. And then two players come to mind in 5th edition at my former local shop. One would make outrageous claims and back them up with flimsy justifications, my favorite of which was "Dedicated transports don't block line of sight, it's like they're not really on the table. EVERYONE knows that, duh!" And the other one, whom I nicknamed Lord Godiva because he was an arrogant jerk who always brought his monoliths (3 of them, all the time) to the game in a big bag from the Godiva chocolate shop. He'd have some bizarre circular reasoning going on at all times that always seemed to benefit his units with things like cover saves, denying you the ability to charge, weird stuff like "there's a lamp post on the other side of the table, so my guys can re-roll their armor saves." Oh, but my favorite cheater ever was this jackwagon named Yuri, who made it to the top tables at local tournaments by simply whining non-stop about a rule until the judges or opponents just gave up and let him have it to shut him up. He'd also watch you move your guys, wait until every last guy in the squad was finished moving (so that none remained in their original position for verification) and then he'd loudly call for a judge to come over and deal with YOUR cheating. He'd claim that players picked up their whole squad and deposited them across the table where they could charge his vulnerable units or get a side armor shot, and of course there weren't any left at the starting point to prove otherwise. Oddly enough, when you requested one of the judges remain at tableside to watch, he turned into a normal (if unskilled) player.

[xcom]

Years ago we caught this guy who only showed up tornaments cheating. He was using fixed dice. Certain colored ones had two 6s and no 1s. While another color have two 1s and no 6s. He had some normal dice mixed in so it wouldn't to obvious. After he was caught. He never came back to the store.

[TheyStoleMyName!]

Stuff like this is why our local tourneys only give out prizes as draws, to keep people from wanting to cheat their way into free stuff.

[GrauGeist]

Just don't play him again and make sure everyone else in the local area does the same, he'll soon change his ways

Agree. Name and Shame.

[Lost Vyper]

I really don´t see the point in cheating. Do you actually win, if it´s by cheating? Thank God, we are all over 30 years old in our FLGC, so there´s no need for any of the bulls***, just have a great competitive game.

[Wolfshade]

If you cheat to win you are kinda missing the point, that is it is suppose to be fun, win or lose.
Certainly, it usually feels more fun to win mind.

The worst part is that it can really put people off playing, one bad experience for a less invested player and that is all they need to make them turn their back on the hobby :(

Think of the Children! Don't cheat.

[White Tiger88]

Played a 40k competitive campaign game at my FLGS, today.

I'm pretty new, so I don't know much about other armies, so I have to be trusting that opponents will be forthright about their armies.

My necron opponent was very dishonest. He lied about many of his army's rules and took advantage of me at any opportunity.

I had a funny feeling and checked the 'cron dex and discovered just how much he had lied the entire time. A couple of his claims cost me the game.

Apparently this guy does it all the time. Usually an experienced player hangs out nearby to prevent it but everyone was in a game this time. Wish I had known that ahead of time. :(

Not to be rude but...

Suck it up butter cup! As much as i hate to say it 60% of opponent will cheat.......the trick is to learn to beat the cheating buggers anyhow then laugh in there faces with Sadistic glee!

Or laugh well they rage at you!

[Deadlift]

I had an experience on Friday night with a couple of kill team games. We were playing all against all and I was using my Eldar Jetbikes. I was doing rather well when suddenly one of the more competitive guys during my turn produced a stop watch and said you have 5 minutes to complete your turn. 10 Jetbikes, that's 30 seconds to move, shoot and assault per model. Doable but I knew what the deal was. Anyway I was shooting at one chap and this guy decided to "chat" to him so he was very slow in taking his saving throws. I'd managed to get half way though my shooting phase and he turned around and said time up. Next he proceeded to tell the other two players to shoot at my units as they were "tactically more viable than his own" I felt like punching him in the face.
It's players like this that take the fun out of the game. Don't fret though, I sucked it up and went on to wipe the floor with him and his 5 chosen there after. I don't tend to play beardy but with this guy may has well painted targets on his model for me.
Oh and I won both games.

[Wolfshade]

Did you use your steel dice?

[Mr Mystery]

I had an experience on Friday night with a couple of kill team games. We were playing all against all and I was using my Eldar Jetbikes. I was doing rather well when suddenly one of the more competitive guys during my turn produced a stop watch and said you have 5 minutes to complete your turn. 10 Jetbikes, that's 30 seconds to move, shoot and assault per model. Doable but I knew what the deal was. Anyone I was shooting at this guy decided to "chat" to so they were very slow in taking their saving throws. I'd managed to get half way though my shooting phase and he turned around and said time up. Next he proceeded to tell the other two players to shoot at my units as they were "tactically more viable than his own" I felt like punching him in the face.
It's players like this that take the fun out of the game. Don't fret though, I sucked it up and went on to wipe the floor with him and his 5 chosen there after. I don't tend to play beardy but with this guy may has well painted targets on his model for me.
Oh and I won both games.

That's not cheating big man. That's back seat gaming. That's genuinely worse than cheating.

Want to play me? No wukkas dude. We shall arrange a time when we're both available and book a table/agree the venue, then we can have at it. But want to play me through a stooge? That's bloody annoying, as you're treating my opponent as a moron who can't beat me without your sagely advice, and of course, I'll never know if I could have taken him on my own.

So back seat gamers get popped in the jaw.

[knas ser]

Not to be rude but...

Suck it up butter cup! As much as i hate to say it 60% of opponent will cheat.......the trick is to learn to beat the cheating buggers anyhow then laugh in there faces with Sadistic glee!

Or laugh well they rage at you!

Honestly, I disagree. Make mistakes about their armies or the rules when playing, yes. Actually cheat? That is unacceptable and I don't expect to see that very often. I go from friendly competitive to outright social assault (mocking, belittling, patronizing, pointing out publically to others around how they cheat) if someone tries it with me. I'm happy to sustain it for hours with tiny little digs at my opponent until they're a giant knot of frustrated bile and I'm really, really good at it. If they do win, well I deflate any prestige they think they can get from it by evidencing how they cheated and questioning them generally. If I do beat them, more the better. Cheating is not acceptable and I encourage everyone who finds someone cheating against them to take that person apart by any means possible. Cheating is a big signal to me that I no longer have to be a nice person and can just indulge myself in being a bully. Something I ordinarily try very hard to not let myself be these days.


I had an experience on Friday night with a couple of kill team games. We were playing all against all and I was using my Eldar Jetbikes. I was doing rather well when suddenly one of the more competitive guys during my turn produced a stop watch and said you have 5 minutes to complete your turn. 10 Jetbikes, that's 30 seconds to move, shoot and assault per model. Doable but I knew what the deal was. Anyone I was shooting at this guy decided to "chat" to so they were very slow in taking their saving throws. I'd managed to get half way though my shooting phase and he turned around and said time up. Next he proceeded to tell the other two players to shoot at my units as they were "tactically more viable than his own" I felt like punching him in the face.
It's players like this that take the fun out of the game. Don't fret though, I sucked it up and went on to wipe the floor with him and his 5 chosen there after. I don't tend to play beardy but with this guy may has well painted targets on his model for me.
Oh and I won both games.

Good for you. But where on earth did the "you have five minutes" come from? And honestly, I've seen your painting threads. If I were facing your Iyanden army, I would want to prolong looking at it for as long as possible even if it were smashing me into the dirt! :)

[Deadlift]

Did you use your steel dice?

Lol no, the thing is he's a friend, when not playing 40k the guys great. Just turns a bit über competitive once the dice start rolling. I liked Mysterys term "backseat gaming" I shall use that next time. But when the bigger games start I'm going to show his chaos marines what 3 wave serpents and 2 wraithknights can do. He thinks he's a bit of a 40k expert despite only playing for a year or so. I tend to be rather laid back with my lists and more fluffy than not. It's time to get beardy and no more list building advice from me.

Thanks knas ser, your a gentleman:D

[Wolfshade]

Lol no, the thing is he's a friend, when not playing 40k the guys great. Just turns a bit über competitive once the dice start rolling. I liked Mysterys term "backseat gaming" I shall use that next time. But when the bigger games start I'm going to show his chaos marines what 3 wave serpents and 2 wraithknights can do. He thinks he's a bit of a 40k expert despite only playing for a year or so. I tend to be rather laid back with my lists and more fluffy than not. It's time to get beardy and no more list building advice from me.

Thanks knas ser, your a gentleman:D

I have one of those, get behind some dice and he becomes a douche, favourite trick measuring front-to-back with monolith movement, srsly.

Then before and after a game it is the rock paper scissor, "I've got this unbeatable list, it has x y and z in it" says he, then I say, quick on the raportie "well, if you taken them I'll take a,b and c", "Ah ha!" he cries "then I'll take r, s and t". and so it continues...

Then after the game it is "if I had done x, I would have won" or "I had unlucky dice", or "you certainly had all the luck" good generals make their own lukc.

[Mr Mystery]

Can't stand opponents claiming I 'diced' them.

Eff you tourny scene, and your mindless apologetics!

[Charistoph]

Then after the game it is "if I had done x, I would have won"...

To be fair, this COULD be an educational opportunity, it depends on how he said it and what he does next time. There's nothing wrong with "If I had done x" statements, it's an internal monologue on improving himself.

But added with the rest, it does turn him in to a cleansing product.