Dr Who

[DrLove42]

Couldn't find the old thread.

Trailer for the 50th special is out now...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkq8pnvsnQg

I am so god damn excited for this

My theory for Hurt's doctor is he'll be the one from the Time War....but its also been rumoured he's a doctor from been 8 and 9

[Mr Mystery]

Jaw has dropped. Nerd has Gasmd.

It would make sense for Dr Hurt to be between the rubbish one (McCann) and the just as rubbish one (Northern, name cannot be recalled right now!).

And it's the day after payday to boot. Phone will be off. Door is not to be knocked. I am not to be disturbed at all. On pain of death. And afterwards, likely off up the pub, see if I can't summon a Beer Tardis to get me home to mark the 50th.

[YorkNecromancer]

My theory for Hurt's doctor is he'll be the one from the Time War....but its also been rumoured he's a doctor from been 8 and 9

I thought this was already confirmed/obvious. Aside from anything else, the trailer has the Hurt Doctor reaching for the Moment, which IIRC was the thing he used to seal the Time War (at least according to the Time Lords who showed up in the Tennant death story where the Master was using the Shin Hadouken like it was on sale).

I am very psyched for this, especially considering 'The Five Doctors' is the best Old Who adventure after 'Genesis of the Daleks'.

[eldargal]

Kind of bad that the BBC has snubbed all the other surviving Doctors though. Colin Baker and Paul McGann are totes cranky apparently and I don't blame them.

[Aenir]

well, its possible thye might still be in on it, you know how the folks making the show like to keep their secrets! (im actually hoping for that to be the case as I didn't see much of the old ones)

[Mr Mystery]

Kind of bad that the BBC has snubbed all the other surviving Doctors though. Colin Baker and Paul McGann are totes cranky apparently and I don't blame them.

Seeing as Colin Baker virtually buried the show, to the point where the frankly excellent McCoy couldn't resurrect it properly, he can suck 'em.

And Paul McGann isn't a proper Doctor.

[Gotthammer]

Seeing as Colin Baker virtually buried the show, to the point where the frankly excellent McCoy couldn't resurrect it properly, he can suck 'em.

And Paul McGann isn't a proper Doctor.

To quote the great Larry Hama, creator of most of GI Joe's modern background - "every character is someone's favourite*."
For me the 5th, 6th and 7th doctors are who I grew up with, and I remember the 8th very fondly, so for such a big anniversary to to acknowledge them seems foolish. And keeping it secret doubly so as it just annoys people who wanted to see them.


*Except Joffrey, nobody likes that guy.

[Wildeybeast]

Kind of bad that the BBC has snubbed all the other surviving Doctors though. Colin Baker and Paul McGann are totes cranky apparently and I don't blame them.

I was under the impression that all the surviving doctors were going to be in it. Have we had it confirmed that it's just tenant and hurt?

[eldargal]

I don't know, I just saw people complaining about it so jumped on the bandwagon.:p

[lobster-overlord]

Does anyone know if there will be multiple showings that day as I will be at work when it is playing here in the States

[eldargal]

Paul McGann Doctor is pretty good, thought he was good in the film and in the audio books and such the 8th doctor is as good as any.:) I don't think blaming the decline of the show on the actor is fair either.

[gwensdad]

Does anyone know if there will be multiple showings that day as I will be at work when it is playing here in the States

No word on additional showings that day, but some theatres are showing it on Monday night (check around for that). Wish something was close to me either Saturday (when theatres are doing 3D) or Monday.

[gwensdad]

Seeing as Colin Baker virtually buried the show, to the point where the frankly excellent McCoy couldn't resurrect it properly, he can suck 'em.

And Paul McGann isn't a proper Doctor.

Colin Baker was SCREWED by the producer of the show (in every possible way). There's a lot of history with that to look up but it wasn't his fault. Check out some of his Big Finish Audios for stories that are 1000X better than ever actually aired.

And also since I brought it up, after listening to the Big Finish McGann audios-he MY Doctor. (then again, they all are, aren't they?)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Both Colin Baker and Paul McGann are excellent on Audio - I especially like McGann's earlier seasons, has arguably the best cybermen story "The Sword of Orion" and the excellent Sapphire & Steel esque "The Chimes of Midnight" to name but a few. As for the special, ill ignore it's existence like the rest of new-who.

[Mr Mystery]

Seems Aunty keep on lying to us, in really good ways!

Check out the prequel episode 'Night of the Doctor'.....up on Youtube now.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

This just makes me want more Mcgann :'(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-U3jrS-uhuo

First thing Moffat's done (since curse of fatal death) I've liked. I will thank Moffat for this one! But I still want a proper McGann tv series :'(

[Mr Mystery]

This just makes me want more Mcgann :'(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-U3jrS-uhuo

First thing Moffat's done (since curse of fatal death) I've liked. I will thank Moffat for this one! But I still want a proper McGann tv series :'(

I think the best we could hope for is the odd special. Which despite finding The Movie somewhat lame, I'm all up for.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The TV Movie was lame, but in terms of "Pilots", i'd rather watch that than "Rose" as at least the TVM had 2 decent doctors and a TARDIS that was actually prorperly huge. You really should give the Audio-dramas a chance - the first 50 have been made permanently £5 (CD) and £3 (Download). The early McGann audios are what won me over and I didn't actually like Paul McGann for years until i gave him a second chance on audio - and now he's one of my faves!


http://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/released/monthly-series/page:7
Personal faves would be Storm Warning, Sword Of Orion (the best cybermen story too imo), the Chimes of Midnight (a very Sapphire & Steel style story!), Embrace The Darkness and the amazing Neverland (when you find out what that planet is...whoah).

[Brakkart]

And Paul McGann isn't a proper Doctor.

Yes he is and after watching him in that mini episode, I really badly want to see him given some more screen time cos he deserves it. I enjoyed those few minutes with him more than the entire run of the last series with Matt Smith.

[eldargal]

Seems Aunty keep on lying to us, in really good ways!

Check out the prequel episode 'Night of the Doctor'.....up on Youtube now.
Bless them.:rolleyes:

[Mr Mystery]

This was me, watching Night of the Doctor

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/rpmacmurphy/princegeorge_zpsff2fc210.jpg

[eldargal]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/773ddae79214334fcf4a4e3a07545bf2/tumblr_mw9cgp99YG1rqgr8po1_500.gif

[Mr Mystery]

Genius!

Oh, and then this was me following 'The Science of Dr Who' with Brian Cox...

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5009191445726343&w=222&h=155&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7

[Brakkart]

I really enjoyed that Science of Doctor Who. Granted a fair bit of it went over my head, but the bits I did get were very interesting and the whole thing was entertaining. The experiment with the guy moving the light up and down while he was being moved side to side was excellent.

The only bit I didn't get is why this was on at 9pm. It should have been on at 7pm so that more kids could see it as this sort of thing is exactly what inspires our next generation of scientists. Good thing there is the iPlayer for catch up.

[gwensdad]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/773ddae79214334fcf4a4e3a07545bf2/tumblr_mw9cgp99YG1rqgr8po1_500.gif

Me (and parts of tumblr):

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/8/23/13/anigif_enhanced-buzz-26671-1377280660-13.gif

[DrLove42]

It was a properly good little sneaky show.

The sneaky view in Children in Need last night was interesting...

[Mr Mystery]

Missed the Children In Need one....

Now, time for a suitably Nerdtastic Whovian question.....

Is 'The War Doctor' a proper regeneration? Because if so, that makes Matt Smith the 13th (unlucky for some) Doctor, also meaning someone is out of regenerations....

If this is correct, then who exactly is Peter Capaldi going to be playing? Moffat has said '12 regens, and that's it'.

I suspect Moffat has being telling further porkie pies (the good kind. Like a Melton Mowbray Porkie Pie, as compared to say, Daily Mail 'Happy Shopper Own Brand' Porkie Pies), and some method of gaining extra regens is brought into play.

Anything but 'nah only kidding, he can do it forever and ever lols' because I expect better than that from Mr Moffat.

[Wildeybeast]

Missed the Children In Need one....

Now, time for a suitably Nerdtastic Whovian question.....

Is 'The War Doctor' a proper regeneration? Because if so, that makes Matt Smith the 13th (unlucky for some) Doctor, also meaning someone is out of regenerations....

If this is correct, then who exactly is Peter Capaldi going to be playing? Moffat has said '12 regens, and that's it'.

I suspect Moffat has being telling further porkie pies (the good kind. Like a Melton Mowbray Porkie Pie, as compared to say, Daily Mail 'Happy Shopper Own Brand' Porkie Pies), and some method of gaining extra regens is brought into play.

Anything but 'nah only kidding, he can do it forever and ever lols' because I expect better than that from Mr Moffat.

He already has extra regens doesn't he? He absorbed all River Song's, however many that is, thus fiddling the system.

Also, if Mcgann goes into Hurt, Hurt assumedly goes into Ecclestone. Hopefully we get to see that one in Day of the Doctor and thus get more Ecclestone!

[DrLove42]

I was under the impression that the amount of regens was managed by the Time Lord Council. With no council, he can do what he wants!

Also I thought all fighters in the Time War were given full sets of regens as a gift.

Besides they're not going to go....whoops all out of regens, better cancel the show for an arbritary reason

[Mr Mystery]

I'm just hoping we get a decent story out of that one.

Hell, I'd like Jenny to turn up, find her Dad is dying, then visit the Sisterhood to continue his work.

[eldargal]

Hurt isn't a 'Doctor' he is a 'Soldier', hence his quote 'Doctor no more' after regenerating. also note the woman who offered him the regeneration mentioned he could regenerate into a woman if he wanted, as part of the controlled regeneration he was offered. I wonder if that's a hint, especially with the recent revelation the creator of the show wanted him to regenerate into a woman at some point.;)

[Mr Mystery]

Certainly hints it may well be possible.

Yet Doctor or Solider, Mr Hurt is still a regeneration.

Ooh, here's another thought....The Master had tried to pinch The Doctor's regenerations on at least one occasion I can think of, and River does indeed confirm they can be given as well as taken.

Hmm. Moffat had seriously not just Handwavium away this one!

[Psychosplodge]

Not a fan but thought your lot might appreciate this crossover

http://i43.tinypic.com/4q6agw.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah that's quite cool.

Not long now Whovians!!!

But...question. How best to ensure my take away turns up just before, and not during??

[Psychosplodge]

Make home made pizza?

[Mr Mystery]

Surviving off that next month anyway :p

Could do, but I'm craving Dominos, and Friday is payday....

Think I'll order it 40 minutes before hand. That way I can keep it warm in the oven should it be early.

[lattd]

Two things: Tom Baker is in trouble with the BBC, thats all I'm going to say ;) In the night of the Doctor, the 8th says you are the ones with the boring gift, the gift of immortality, which they may have been given to the doctor....

[Wildeybeast]

So, Moffat was on the one show and was saying the 12 regeneration law was absolutely immutable, there is nothing they can do about it and the show will end when the doctor runs out of regens. Seemed serious. Make of that what you will.

[lattd]

Then said it may be a complete lie, great show the one show, shame about the cyber man who collapsed.

[Mr Mystery]

Never thought I'd hear The One Show described as great.

Cack? Yes. God awful? Disappointe if it wasn't. But great?? This is the same show yes? The 'light entertainment magazine' show designed to bring daytime programming to prime time to remind the working populace why it's better to be at work during the day?

(I jest. But not about the show. It's terribad)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I uploaded the covers of the Dr who theme I finished a few months ago to soundcloud if anyones interested :
https://i3.sndcdn.com/artworks-000063230469-2ebynu-t500x500.jpg

You can listen to it here :
https://soundcloud.com/chrisctan/ion-plasma-incineration-dr-who

my own little contribution to the 50th. Enjoy.

[Wildeybeast]

Yeah the cyber man thing was surreal. For those not watching, they had a chap dancing in a cyberman outfit who fainted. Onto a drum kit. Behind a woman who was showing off her light up prosthetic leg. But it was all fine because the chief doctor of the whole NHS (Sir Bruce Keogh) was on hand to treat him. I kid you not, that actually happened.

[Mr Mystery]

Interview with Peter Davison on the BBC website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24989543).

Raises a really interesting point. The people involved in making the current Who are the fans from the original era.

With the possible exception of Star Trek, this is likely the only TV series to have been around long enough for this to happen!

[lattd]

Yea steven Moffat said he loved the tomb of the cyberman, having watched some of the older episodes recently I am glad how things have changed, there are some really weird things in the older series like the cars???

[Mr Mystery]

Oh, the Who Mobiles! I thought you were referring to a story featuring Cars as the antagonists.

I love old Who. So much imagination was poured into them, and all on a shoestring budget.Yes the monsters quite often looked daft, but the quality of the story, and it's telling draws you in regardless.

[Mr Mystery]

Adventure In Space and Time is on....

SQUEEEE!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Brilliant drama, they had so much more ambition and imagination than they do these days IMO (bar Big Finish). Would love to see David Bradley in a 1st doctor prequel or mini-series. He nailed it.

[Brakkart]

That was just superb. David Bradley was brilliant as William Hartnell. Credit to Mark Gatiss who wrote it as he did a fantastic job.

[Mr Mystery]

Recorded the last half hour on account my brain fell out, meaning it was bedtime.

Will catch tomorrow morning.

For those that missed it, it is of course on iPlayer.

[DrLove42]

Watching it on iPlayer now. Seems good so far.

Fill an hour or two until the Xbox turns up....

[Psychosplodge]

you excited?
What you going to do if it doesn't come till afternoon? :D

[DrLove42]

How many of the the original creators are still with us? What must they think of the show now


you excited?
What you going to do if it doesn't come till afternoon? :D

It probably won't...its not even in Exeter yet

[energongoodie]

Hey you Whovians. Check out google today for a really quite fun little Dr game :D

https://www.google.co.uk/

[Wolfshade]

Once again, ninjaed by energongoodie. D'oh.

[energongoodie]

:D

http://www.analytics-ninja.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/ninja2.jpg

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Thought I'd post up my "best of" list of audio-dramas, starting with the best doctor ever (IMO!) McCoy :

Ace & Hex
The Harvest (Introduces the new companion Hex, cant say more as it would spoil it)
Night Thoughts (A good "ghost house" story)
No Mans Land (Rather semi-disturbing world war 1, mostly historical)
Nocturne (Very good Future Colony style story)
The Angel Of Scutari (Fantastic historical!)
Enemy Of The Daleks (Intense action-focussed Dalek story, quite grim too)
A Death In The Family (saying anything would spoil it)
Lurkers at Sunlights Edge (Lovecraftian Cosmic-Horror)
Protect and Survive (Very unique and original tale this one)
Gods and monsters (This is Hex's last story and a sequel to Curse of Fenric)

Solo :
The Death Collectors (Great gritty sci-fi horror, some strong Carpenters The Thing elements)
House Of Blue Fire (Great Mystery House story, has a bit of a Sapphire & Steel vibe)
Kingdom Of Silver (Arguably the best 7th Doctor Cybermen story)

Mel :
The Fires of Vulcan (Brilliant historical that reintroduced Mel, if you hated her on tv, this will make you change your mind)

Ace
The Genocide Machine (Solid Dalek story)
Colditz (7th Doctor and N@zis, great mix and introduces the character of Klein)
Dust Breeding (The best post-Survival Master story IMO)
1963: The Assassination Games (Recent awesome political thriller that introduces a new enemy that is quite interesting)

Klein: (The stories are all connected so need to be listened to in order)
A Thousand Tiny Wings
Survival Of The Fittest
The Architects Of History

[lattd]

http://www.drwhominiatures.co.uk/index.html Don't think this has been brought up but it really should be, very good game, rules are some times not quite clear, but with a bit of discussion its easy :). Black tree and crooked dice both do some very nice miniatures as well.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I actually found some of the old games workshop dr who figures a few weeks back..in a charity shop! big bag with like 20 cybermen and 20 daleks with some metal figures, all for 2 quid! Daleks are quite tiny though compared to "modern" 28mm minis though. They look more like 15-20mm now.

Edit - wish someone would do some modern sculpts of the fisrt 8 doctors. Would kill for a decent looking 7th doctor. the harlequin ones look rather dated these days, they have their own charm but its not my cuppa.

[lattd]

Try black tree studio they do up to the 8th doctor and aren't too bad

[gwensdad]

Also just for laughs-check out who wrote the audio drama "The Harvest"...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yep, Dan Abnett also wrote Nocturne.

[Mr Mystery]

11 hours to go.

Excited? Moi?

Dear chap, the word barely does it justice!

[Deadlift]

Not a Dr Who fan to be honest, to be honest I have not watched a single episode since I was a kid. So with that in mind my favorite Doc will always be Tom Baker, when ever I think of Dr Who I think of him.

[eldargal]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/753883f23157be8993df6bcd809f62d9/tumblr_mwouw3sRAa1qihqa0o3_r1_500.jpg
http://31.media.tumblr.com/174ae364e6e10463ea693b4f9e084d2d/tumblr_mwouw3sRAa1qihqa0o2_r1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/dfc0f2670e1d06384ad0b2a37cae341a/tumblr_mwouw3sRAa1qihqa0o1_r1_500.jpg

[lattd]

For a show treated like a unwanted growth for much of its early years by the bbc, they haven't stopped showing it love this week!

[Mr Mystery]

Just over four and a half hours....


EEEEEE!!!!

[Wildeybeast]

Awesome! Can we discuss it or not?

[Mr Mystery]

Jaw has dropped.

Gog is now agog.

Mind is blown.

Only fitting word is triumphant.

And having recorded it, I shall watch it again in the morning!

Discussions? Shall we agree a one week spoiler tag? Set text to white with a [spoiler] tag?

[Wildeybeast]

I'm of a mind to say if you are daft enough to read this thread having not watched that episode, more fool you. Let's get stuck in!

[Aenir]

Curator Doctor!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'll eh..keep most of my opinions on it to myself >.> well I did like Capaldi and Hurt, and its nice to see a way for Gallifrey to return.

[Brakkart]

Thoroughly enjoyed the Day of the Doctor special, but overall I think the Adventure in Space and Time drama was better. If you haven't seen it I can recommend checking out the half hour long The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot special. Very funny! Can be found on the BBC site here:

The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy)

[Chronowraith]

Was out with family most of today and yesterday. I'm just about to sit down to a nice 4-hour marathon of Day of the Doctor and Adventures in Space and Time

I've been spoiled this week with the whole week-long marathon of Dr. Who. My work streams BBC (and a number of other channels) into our workstations in the office and so I managed to watch roughly 6-8 hours of Dr. Who a day... at work.

[eldargal]

I loved it, the three Doctors together were very amusing and the supporting characters excellent especially the Brigadiers daughter. I strongly disliked the characterisation of Elizabeth I though. Towards the end I was thinking 'gosh, it's a pity another Doctor couldn't make a cameo then BAM! Flailed excitedly for about 15 minutes.:p

[lattd]

Just amazing so good and the fiveish doctors was hilarious, oh and the Christmas trailer is up too ;)

[Gotthammer]

Dang, Queen Elizabeth I has got it going on :cool:

[eldargal]

Dang, Queen Elizabeth I has got it going on :cool:

Good to look at, bit of a flibbertigibbet.:p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

shivved in the kidneys by Lizzie One. what a way to go.

Right, so, I thought it was all a bit much of a muchness up until the last fifteen-twenty minutes. Ah, yes, Zygons, there's a reason you haven't been used in forty years. Some stuff with the British Government's Secret Stash. Bit of Running Around. Timey-Wimey. All that stuff is watchable because of the performances of the three actors, which were superb, and the interplay between the three iterations, which seemed spot-on and was genuinely touching. You only really get to see the depths of the Doctor's self-loathing and lack of confidence in himself and his own choices when he meets his other selves, so that was good fun.

Also nice of John Hurt to remind us all how much more fun the Doctor is when he's an irascible old git. Deserves his own series. He's probably too expensive (or it'd be too confusing), but I expect the comics have got this one.

Loved the design and visual cues for lots of things. A good example is the War Doctor's haircut - definitely a younger man's style on an older man, which is a good shorthand for his role in the triumvirate.

That's a big damn retcon. But I approve.

Anyway, I enjoyed it. It was fun. Matt Smith will be missed; roll on Capaldi. Woo!

[eldargal]

A new 50th Anniversay episode is on the BBC website:

The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy)

Watch it. Watch it NOW!

[Wolfshade]

Well I watched it, meh.

The whole QEI could have been lifted from Black Adder, the three doctor circle jerk.

Can't see what the hype was.

[Mr Mystery]

Dirty Wolfie. Bad Wolfie. In your bed, on your rug!

And for those who also watched Night of the Doctor....

8th Doctor's last words....physician, heal thyself.

And didn't he just.

[energongoodie]

I don't like Dr Who. But I liked that episode :)

[Wolfshade]

Dirty Wolfie. Bad Wolfie. In your bed, on your rug!

And for those who also watched Night of the Doctor....

8th Doctor's last words....physician, heal thyself.

And didn't he just.

Sorry, it is just too mainstream for me...

[Deadlift]

Sorry, it is just too mainstream for me...

Yeah I just can't be bothered with it myself. Dr Who just seems a bit amateur when you compare it to some of the American Sci-Fi series. I know I should like it but I just don't see the appeal.

[eldargal]

It's very different to American scifi and to be honst the new series is a bit patchy, sometimes brilliant*, sometimes fairly poor. I really enjoyed the special though and the Five(ish) doctors webisode is brilliant** so on the whole a good 50th anniversary.:)


*Strax, Vastra, Jenny...

**Seriously, watch it now (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy)

[Gotthammer]

*Strax, Vastra, Jenny...

**Seriously, watch it now (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy)

Agreed on all points there. Glad to see all the companions at least get a look in too :) Loved Colin Baker with his family :p

[Deadlift]

No Tom Baker or Sylvester McCoy ?

[Psychosplodge]

I've always found it meh.
And I still find his magic wand, sorry Sonic screwdriver ridiculous, and lazy.

[eldargal]

No Tom Baker or Sylvester McCoy ?

Sylvestor McCoy is inthe Five(ish Doctors yes.:)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I don't tend to get along with most other fans myself, I guess you could call me a "black sheep" fan if you like and I like to make fun of myself for it as I tend to like all the stuff most fans dislike as my fave doctor is mccoy, i loved the concept of the looms, the much derided cartmel master plan is brilliant to me, I thought eric saward was the best thing that happened to the show in the 80's and Christopher H. Bidmead and Marc Platt are my fave writers.

I generally only like two forms of sci-fi these days though myself - and that is cosmic horror and hard sci-fi, I cant get into the film/tv stuff really it just aint my cuppa - sadly I have to always say that thse things are just my opinion and I dont think my views are any "better" than anyone elses otherwise its like inviting a swarm of hornets into my face. It kinda sucks though, I wish I could find more people that shared similar views to myself as I only know 2 others but dont get to speak to them as often as I would like.

[eldargal]

I don't agree with you on New Who in general* (though god knows it has it's faults) but I don't think that should be an issue really, I mean people get different things from the same stories. That goes for the rest of it too. I can see it would be lonely though.:) I quite like Colin Baker, Martha and I love the New Paradigm Daleks so according to a lot of Whovians I'm a pariah too so whatever...

I thought McCoy was quite popular? Everyone seems to sort of rally around him while they hate on Colin Baker (unfairly).

*Dalek is one of my favourite episodes.:p

[Deadlift]

Whovians ? This isn't Dr Zeus is it ? :p

[eldargal]

I hate the term personally, but it's easier than typing out 'Doctor Who obsessives' over and over.:p

[Kirsten]

well I love all Doctor Who.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I don't agree with you on New Who in general* (though god knows it has it's faults) but I don't think that should be an issue really, I mean people get different things from the same stories. That goes for the rest of it too. I can see it would be lonely though.:) I quite like Colin Baker, Martha and I love the New Paradigm Daleks so according to a lot of Whovians I'm a pariah too so whatever...

I thought McCoy was quite popular? Everyone seems to sort of rally around him while they hate on Colin Baker (unfairly).

*Dalek is one of my favourite episodes.:p

I love Colin Baker, a true gentleman. I never got the backlash towards his storise too - loved that they made them more adult and darker. Revelation of the daleks, Attack of the cybermen and especially Vengeance on varos scared the crap out of me as a kid. I thought Colins harsher/colder personality just made him more alien - and more akin to Hartnell. It's Tom Baker I never got the appeal of...allthough he's a lovely chap too. I didn't mind Martha - I thought she was one of the most tollerable NS companions (I liked Captain jack too though).

it tends to be older fans that seem to lash out at me, while ironically the new-series fans I have met have actually been pretty friendly and accepting of my opinions, which makes me do this face : http://imgs.tuts.dragoart.com/how-to-draw-an-anime-cartoon-puppy_1_000000001800_3.jpg

[eldargal]

He's hilarious in The Five(ish Doctors Reboot.:) I can understand the dislike of some of the character traits he picked up earlier on, but I think disliking something and it being bad television are two different things. I thought it added some real depth to the character. I love Tom Baker too, actually I really like all the Doctors from 4 onwards with teh first three on a slightly lower tier though Hartnell is brilliant too, incredible mix of benign and malevolent but sometimes the mix goes a bit wrong and he comes off as a bit creepy, to me anyway. I loved Martha, intelligent, independent professional woman of colour who wasn't emotionally dependent on the Doctor? Fantastic. I thought she was the most equal of his companions in many ways. Captain Jack is lovely too.:)

I've noticed that too actually, a lot of older Who fans seem to be quite sensitive about the series new popularity and get quite cranky with people interpreting the classic series differently.

[Kirsten]

would you like a jelly baby?

[eldargal]

What flavour?:p

[Kirsten]

ribbon flavour ;)

green?

[eldargal]

Do they even have flavours? They all taste teh same to me.:p Yes I'll have a jelly baby... The best kind of baby.

[Kirsten]

the only sort of baby worth considering

[lattd]

I think Colin baker hate is as much to do with the garish outfit he wore, and I can see why Tom baker was so popular and I feel Matt smith has some of the same qualities as Tom, I enjoy most of the doctors I've seen although ecclestone is average and I find David remnant isn't as good as Matt smith.

[Kirsten]

Christopher Ecclestone was wonderful

[eldargal]

I agree, I loved Eccleston. Tough guy act masking incredible pain from the end of the Time War. Really sad he opted out of the 50th Anniversay special especially after he apparently reconciled with the New Who team.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

He's hilarious in The Five(ish Doctors Reboot.:) I can understand the dislike of some of the character traits he picked up earlier on, but I think disliking something and it being bad television are two different things. I thought it added some real depth to the character. I love Tom Baker too, actually I really like all the Doctors from 4 onwards with teh first three on a slightly lower tier though Hartnell is brilliant too, incredible mix of benign and malevolent but sometimes the mix goes a bit wrong and he comes off as a bit creepy, to me anyway. I loved Martha, intelligent, independent professional woman of colour who wasn't emotionally dependent on the Doctor? Fantastic. I thought she was the most equal of his companions in many ways. Captain Jack is lovely too.:)

I've noticed that too actually, a lot of older Who fans seem to be quite sensitive about the series new popularity and get quite cranky with people interpreting the classic series differently.

I'm more into the 60's, 80's and id say the 90's era was my all time fave (read All Consuming Fire where there is dark gallifreyan mythology and references to Azathoth and great old ones and you will roll your eyes and be like "...no wonder he likes that")

I kinda think I will like Capaldi though as I prefer older, crankier and miserable doctors and he might be like that, at least the eyebrows win me over XD. I relate to them more too, being a bit of a Victor Meldrew myself :P

I really wanted to like 9 as I have a high opinion of Eccleston but the "fantastic" and "oh rose" stuff really killed it for me, I liked him when he got angry in "dalek" though, I think I would of liked him if there was more of that Withnail and I in it. Sadly he only decided to do the 1 season. Still, ill give props to the 9th doctor as that was a pretty original and fresh take on the character even if it did not click for me. I kinda hope he might do big finish stuff oneday as I might learn to like him through that like I did with the 8th doctor.

[Chronowraith]

I agree, I loved Eccleston. Tough guy act masking incredible pain from the end of the Time War. Really sad he opted out of the 50th Anniversay special especially after he apparently reconciled with the New Who team.

Agreed, Eccleston makes my top 5 favorite doctors. (Matt Smith, Tom Baker, David Tennant, Jon Pertwee, and Christopher Eccleston) Troughton is pretty close to making the list too.

I do agree that part of the issue with Colin Baker is the outfit. At the same time, his version of the doctor seemed very arrogant and driven entirely by ego at times. I'm also not a fan of the 5th Doctor as he was too... indecisive.

[Wildeybeast]

It's very different to American scifi and to be honst the new series is a bit patchy, sometimes brilliant*, sometimes fairly poor. I really enjoyed the special though and the Five(ish) doctors webisode is brilliant** so on the whole a good 50th anniversary.:)


*Strax, Vastra, Jenny...

**Seriously, watch it now (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy)

Okay, that was bloody brilliant and hilarious. Everyone should watch it now.

"Sylvester who?"

[eldargal]

Yup, so much humour and good natured poking fun.:) I loved John Barrowmans secret shame lol. I do love that the remaining Doctors not in the Day ofthe Doctors basically got their own show consisting of the actors poking fun at themselves and all the things, a fitting tribute really, rather than shoving them in the main episode for 20 seconds or something.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/78ff569a0f0b9d9261001ab9f2e3476b/tumblr_mwtvh5mGi11qijoeyo1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/475760881901b59e583704841488b6ff/tumblr_mwtvh5mGi11qijoeyo2_500.jpg

The top photo is Stuart Crouch at age 7 with Tom Baker, taken during the celebration for the 15th anniversary of Doctor Who in 1978, 35 years ago.

The bottom photo is Stuart’s 7-year old son this past weekend with Tom Baker at the 50th Anniversary celebration, exactly 35 years later.
I don't know but this gets me right in the feels...

[Mr Mystery]

I'll just leave this here then, I shall (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Dr%20Who%20Scarf)

Roll on the days when I've got money to spend once again!

[Wildeybeast]

Yup, so much humour and good natured poking fun.:) I loved John Barrowmans secret shame lol. I do love that the remaining Doctors not in the Day ofthe Doctors basically got their own show consisting of the actors poking fun at themselves and all the things, a fitting tribute really, rather than shoving them in the main episode for 20 seconds or something.


Or were they in the main episode? Did they make it?

Mystery, I'm pretty sure you could get a relative to knit you one of those for Christmas at no cost at all (at least not to you).

[Kirsten]

Yup, so much humour and good natured poking fun.:) I loved John Barrowmans secret shame lol. I do love that the remaining Doctors not in the Day ofthe Doctors basically got their own show consisting of the actors poking fun at themselves and all the things, a fitting tribute really, rather than shoving them in the main episode for 20 seconds or something.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/78ff569a0f0b9d9261001ab9f2e3476b/tumblr_mwtvh5mGi11qijoeyo1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/475760881901b59e583704841488b6ff/tumblr_mwtvh5mGi11qijoeyo2_500.jpg

I don't know but this gets me right in the feels...

that is awesome

Songtaran christmas carols... awesome. mmm lizard lesbian


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QROptbXX0-0

[eldargal]

Strax is so amusing.:) I really, really hope Vastra, Jenny and Strax get the spinoff everyone wants for them.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm hoping Ace is revisited.

One of the most interesting companions, and no proper send off outside the books.

[Psychosplodge]

Background nod to your fandom

http://i59.tinypic.com/2evgv1v.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

Well, Series 8 is just weeks away! Squeee!

And some sod has leaked scripts online.

Why? Why would you do that? Large part of the appeal of Dr Who (for me anyways) is how hard the production team work to avoid spoilers. But because some goon wanted a moments adulation, I may now have to actively avoid social media in case some mouth breathing neck beards decide to go all spoilerific.

BAH!

[CoffeeGrunt]

Why? Why would you do that? Large part of the appeal of Dr Who (for me anyways) is how hard the production team work to avoid spoilers. But because some goon wanted a moments adulation, I may now have to actively avoid social media in case some mouth breathing neck beards decide to go all spoilerific.

Because millions will read it and give them ad revenue, just look at Faeit.

Also that cameo is good, but the Lutece Twins cameo? Absolutely smashes it. :P

I dropped this show after Matt Smith's first season, because the constant plot escalation got a bit silly even towards the end of Tennant's run. I also found Tennant to be much better than Smith, that cold, glacial anger was excellent, plus he was an interesting, well-rounded character. Smith feels like the show's aiming for kids a lot more now. Everything's...wacky, whooooo~! Oh look, a fez, a fez, a fez, a fez...

Even when he tried to be threatening, he couldn't do it without shouting. Tennant had this perfect tone of voice, of someone boiling over with anger yet jamming the lid down tight despite how much it's scalding their hands. Really hoping Capaldi brings some fire and brimstone to the role. Send the Doctor off with a bang, and make him someone to be feared again by the ne'er-do-wells of the galaxy.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Well, I'm rather glad I skimmed the leaked scripts, it's saved me from wasting the time of watching them as it all seems like the same kind of silliness that has put me off the previous 9 years. Perhaps ill enjoy it again if they ever get a showrunner that shares some of my common tastes and views (I do sincerely hope for this). I'm not going to spoil it for others though, If it's your thing - then more power to you. Go and enjoy it when it airs.

[eldargal]

I'll watch it in the hope Moffat has learnt something about the representation of women at least.:( Not hopeful. Really hoping this is Moffats last season as showrunner.

[Wildeybeast]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Moffat did some great work as a writer, but has gone downhill since he took on the burden of producer. Anyone know what Russell T is doing these days?

[eldargal]

Moffat needs someone reining him in, he is a superb writer when someone is there to supervise but on his own not so much. Dr Who is basically Sherlock in space now. Obnoxious brilliant man is obnoxious but everyone lets him get away with it because he is also brilliant. Plus women want him but he doesn't give them what they want.

[Wildeybeast]

The best episodes in both are in invariably the ones Gatiss writes. But when you look at the likes of weeping angels and random shoes, it shows Moffat can do fantastic work.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm still an advocate of Moffat. So much better than RTD as a writer.

I mean seriously, The Master....where was the gloating when he'd won?

[eldargal]

Yeah RTD was far from perfect, I do think he was more in touch with the feel of old Who than Moffat. He was much more anti-establishment and anti-authority than Moffats Doctor who IS authority embodied now.

[Mr Mystery]

Was. Got a new Doctor now!

And I kind of liked it. I'm sure I've waffled about this before, but Psychic Paper. The Doctor needs no sodding Psychic Paper. He's the Doctor. Of course he has every right to be in here, what are you talking about man? Now, run along and get us all a nice cup of tea.

Much betterer!

Plus, RTD had everyone trying to poke the Doctor, or each other.

Oh, and he invented The Slitheen - Worst, least creepy or scary monsters ever.

Think I'll have a Smith Binge today. Not out of spite like, but because I've not watched my Blurays yet, and we're rapidly heading into 'OH GOD IT'S DAYTIME TV' territory.

[eldargal]

It's just really out of keeping having the Doctor bossing everyone about and demanding obediance and being ab obnoxious **** whereas before he usually just meddled without bothering and he was rude sometimes but never obnoxious. It seems to be a thing for Moffat to have his male characters get away with behaving really, really badly and getting away with it because of their brilliance.:(

[Mr Mystery]

One could argue it's a very clever satire on how the world works though.

[eldargal]

'cept the Doctor never gets undermined in a way that would satirise it. At least not Eleven. Ten was, with the whole Timelord Victorious thing being undermined but Eleven is basically Timelord Victorious without the undermining.

[Mr Mystery]

I dunno, I don't see that myself.

But will keep it in mind when I start my binge.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I didnt like either but ill give RTD props for at least having good politics - I do actually like RTD as a person too, and I think stuff outside of Dr who he's done has actually been fairly enjoyable but like Moffat, ill never like his take on Dr who - it all reminds me of the 4th doctor's era, inparticular the Graham Williams era which I didnt like for a lot of the same reasons. I would rather they get a showrunner that ISNT a fan next time, and instead is someone that can respect the past but has her own ideas about things, as the past 9 years is just televised fan-fic in my eyes.

I would rather have new and fresh ideas, stories with actual concepts and ideas to them, new monsters that are exciting and interesting in both visual and concept (they kind of set a high standard for good non-humanoid antagonists with the Daleks), and a LOT less of the "Classic" antagonists (like maybe once or twice every few years). I'd have a mix of Hard sci-fi, political/social charged stories, cosmic horror, gallifreyan mythological based storise and pure historicals.

I would hire real sci-fi writers that actually know their stuff like Stephen Baxter, Alastair Reynolds, Iain M Banks, Madeline Ashby, Tricia Sullivan, Margaret Atwood - the list could go on, but I think I've made my point. Perhaps bring back some older ones like Christopher h Bidmead and Andrew Cartmell too. I would love this show to live up to it's full potential, but I guess for now ill be happy Big Finish occasionally blow me away with some of their stories (the ones with the Eminence have been pretty awesome especially, and the Eminence is a fantastic idea/villain)

Also I think it's really nice we can disagree with each other and still remain respectful and friendly. That's something the internet as a whole could really do a lot more with.

[Mr Mystery]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TivqZTq5u6Y

Official Trailer is now up. Seems.....more subdued than Smith, which is good because no Doctor should be too close to his predecessor. None of the others have!

[xFallenx]

I would hire real sci-fi writers that actually know their stuff like Stephen Baxter, Alastair Reynolds, Iain M Banks, Madeline Ashby, Tricia Sullivan, Margaret Atwood - the list could go on, but I think I've made my point. Perhaps bring back some older ones like Christopher h Bidmead and Andrew Cartmell too. I would love this show to live up to it's full potential, but I guess for now ill be happy Big Finish occasionally blow me away with some of their stories (the ones with the Eminence have been pretty awesome especially, and the Eminence is a fantastic idea/villain)
This.


Also I think it's really nice we can disagree with each other and still remain respectful and friendly. That's something the internet as a whole could really do a lot more with.
Especially this!

[Mr Mystery]

So, new Doctor now out there.

What's your thinking on this?

Found this interesting review by someone new to Who. Always nice to get a view from the outside looking in (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/moviesandtv/columns/highdefinition/12153-Doctor-Who-Season-8-Premiere-Reviewed-by-a-Newbie)

I particularly enjoyed it, and Capaldi is more what I want from a Doctor! Clara also got decent character development, and has become a seriously interesting companion.

And yes, Strax was as amusing as ever!

[Wolfshade]

The tramp would not have thrown away a bottle, they were worth money so he wouldn't have done that
The chimneys had insufficient smoke
Why wasn't Clara wearing a hat in the street? (And those in the restaurant, hats in public places that is the rules)

And if I had a lizard girlfriend who eats people, you might get slightly worried that she might get carried away and eat humanoids...

Looks like I won't bother with this incarnation either.

[eldargal]

It was really good, did away with a lot of the Moffat problems and gave Clara some real agency and character development. Also lots of Jenny and Vastra which automatically makes the episode 100% better. They need a spin off already.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Vastra and Jenny developed more too. And more Strax would always be welcome!

And Wolfie - stop being a pedant :p

[Wolfshade]

I'm sorry it just broke the suspension of disbelief. It is simple arbitary things like hats on women. That isn't even hard to achieve.

[Gotthammer]

And if I had a lizard girlfriend who eats people, you might get slightly worried that she might get carried away and eat humanoids...

I think Jenny would be disappointed if she didn't...

[Mr Mystery]

http://kendalllacey.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/williams.jpg

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

i didn't like it, I really wanted to..but it just like felt more of the same to me,didnt feel like anything changed at all for me. I'm just not into this comical stuff that seems to be popular with most people - didn't like the graham williams era in classicwho for the same reason, prefer more serious stuff with more scientific ideas. Will give it a few more episodes to see how Capaldi develops though as I still feel I might like him...glad others are enjoying it though, more power to ya i guess...ill prolly just go back to big finish though as they do more my kinda thing, would be nice to enjoy the visual stuf again though..

[Mr Mystery]

They've gone with a more traditional Doctor this time, as in more mad Uncle than Boyfriend type role, and with such a radical shift in approach it's going to take a bit for the feel to fully adapt.

I'd give this a while to bed in if you found it a bit hit and miss. I mean the moments where The Doctor was doing what The Doctor does were phenomenal!

[Mr Mystery]

So, second episode - I'm really liking this new Doctor.

Episode itself, bit off in places, but enjoyable. High points remain the continued exploration of Clara, The Doctor, and their relationship. Very pleasing to me!

[Kirsten]

I enjoyed it too

[Mr Mystery]

Really liked Clara's answer to the Doctor's question about whether or not he is a good man.

Also?

Clearly, something going on with Missy - saving random spods. Then we have more of the chalk equations, this time in the Tardis. Any thoughts as to whether these are linked, or perhaps two threads to be followed, ala Silence will Fall and that?

[Kirsten]

as far as I am concerned Missy is just Sue White being weird as usual :p

[eldargal]

Popular theory: Missy = The Master, setting precedent for male-female regeneration.

[Kirsten]

that would be cool

[Mr Mystery]

That would indeed be very, very cool.

Though part of me hopes it's the Rani. She's been shown to use mind altering chemicals before, so those 'in heaven' could simply be trapped in her TARDIS, ripped to the tits on various concoctions.

[eldargal]

I was wondering about Rani or maybe a really cranky Romana.

[Mr Mystery]

Oooh yes! Romana!

Did you know, Romana II is married to Richard Dawkins?

One assumes they had a civil ceremony!

[eldargal]

The poor thing.:(

[Darren Richardson]

just finished watching it on Catchup online.....

An interesting one indeed, just who Missy is, is keeping me hooked so far, but I can't take next weeks episode Seriously at all....

[Mr Mystery]

just finished watching it on Catchup online.....

An interesting one indeed, just who Missy is, is keeping me hooked so far, but I can't take next weeks episode Seriously at all....

It's a Mark Gatiss story, so it ought to be a good one.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Well i actually didn't mind this one, considering the silly miniaturization plot that was already done in the dreadful tom baker story the invisible enemy, Capaldi was more likeable, I like his grumpiness - and the Dalek siege scenes were really well done and looked great, albeit not as grisly as Resurrection of the daleks - but at least the Daleks got to kill people this time. Think it would of been better as a simple base under siege story though. The Heaven thing felt out of place and weird, obviously leading to the next "clever" finale -yawn-

[Psychosplodge]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2yoso5c.png
http://i58.tinypic.com/17v1br.png
http://i57.tinypic.com/2d8ky9f.png
http://i62.tinypic.com/jsh73o.png
http://i59.tinypic.com/29l1ams.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/qoc8bk.png
http://i60.tinypic.com/34435vm.png
http://i57.tinypic.com/i2vkbd.png

[Mr Mystery]

Well, I for one enjoyed Robots of Sherwood.

Very silly episode, but nicely paced. Capaldi again impresses me massively with his take on The Doctor.

[eldargal]

Very silly and incredibly entertaining, very Old Who in the sense of 'oh let's go watch some history crap we need to do things'. Failed the Bechdel test mind you, first episode of this series to do so.

[Kirsten]

I enjoyed it, Capaldi has so far very much put me in mind of old Who

[Mr Mystery]

I want more like this to be honest (well, mins the Bechdel test thing). I like a good slice of silly. Hallmark of Tom Baker's run was a bit of silly. Like offering Davros a Jellybaby.

[eldargal]

Yup, which was needed. Favourite episode in a long while, up there with an of the Vastra/Jenny-heavy episodes hehe.

[Mr Mystery]

And further, continued development of Clara is welcome too.

[eldargal]

Yup, she was good too

[Mr Mystery]

Seems Jenna Coleman has agreed with the producers to neither confirm nor deny that she's offski end of this season.

And I say good. Too much of a spoiler. Same when they change the Doctor's actor. Just do it. No warnings. Pow. That'd be ace. Especially if it somehow occured mid-arc.

[Wildeybeast]

But then we can't have big parties with g list celebrities and Zoe Ball.

[Gotthammer]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/e3a581939b494be78757f0ddd491a977/tumblr_nbc9hz3wBB1rn3zbbo1_r1_500.gif

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I am loving the new Doctor so far, but the scripts are still too silly for my taste and remind me of the vast majority of the tom baker era (my least fave era in the classic series). Wish they could employ a few actual SF writers to balance things out a bit.

[Mr Mystery]

I think last weeks has been the only 'silly' Capaldi one so far - and was deliberately played that way.

Looking forward to Listen this weekend - looks interesting!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I think last weeks has been the only 'silly' Capaldi one so far - and was deliberately played that way.

Looking forward to Listen this weekend - looks interesting!

Each to their own - I found the Miniaturizing and going into a dalek to be pretty silly IMO and the first episode with the dinosaur and those 3 comic relief characters also had lots of silly jokes in it too, it all reminded me of the comic relief toned tom baker era rather than the more serious pertwee and davison eras. None of it has any great SF ideas to blow me away either - like Logopolis which dealt with Heat Death and Post-Universal Existence, or the 8th doctor time war books which had an "Enemy" that was based on the idea of a sentient redunant process of history.

[Mr Mystery]

And 'Listen' now watched.

Bit of an odd episode. Really liked the interplay between The Doctor and Clara. Might take another watch to really appreciate....

[Kirsten]

I thought it was rather good, felt to me like some of the great horror episodes, with a clever ending

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

The creepy factor was definitely there - something Moffat does incredibly well (and I still don't get the 'fan' hate for the guy).

Think I'll shower, then give it another watch.

[Kirsten]

yeah I like him, I think he does well. been a fan of all the new Whos since it relaunched. loving Capaldi so far, he feels very much like old Who silliness with new Who plot lines

[Mr Mystery]

For me, it's just nice to have a Doctor who isn't trying to knob his assistant, and an assistant who acts as a foil to the Doctor.

[Kirsten]

I never got that feeling from previous ones

[Mr Mystery]

For me, RTD went overboard with the humanity of it.

The Doctor should come across as odd. He's not human, and has no interest in being human.

[Kirsten]

that is true, one of the reasons why Christopher Ecclestone is still my favourite of the new Doctors, he felt much more like that than the later ones.

[Mr Mystery]

Love the opening monologue in this. Really well done, and making excellent use of Capaldi's screen presence.

And yeah, Eccleston was good. Tennant - not so much. Nothing inherently wrong, just never convinced me as The Doctor. Matt Smith however had the slightly autistic approach to social mores down better - but Capaldi is so far nailing it.

Capaldi in particular reminds me of me when I'm talking/mucking about with a Dog. I respect the pooch, and I love the pooch. But I know I'm inherently a superior creature because I'm much, much smarter. You can say things to a Dog you wouldn't say to a fellow human being, and be constantly amused by it's derpiness. Yet underneath all the teasing and play is a core respect for the abilities it does have. It can outstrip me in many, many ways.

[Kirsten]

I have liked all of them, but Capaldi has been excellent so far, very much liking his attitude, and the fact he cares less, the scene inside the dalek where the guy dies really surprised me.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

He seems a lot less tolerant of those who don't follow his (typically good) advice. He knows what he's on about, and expects people to listen.

He reminds me of a grumpy Tom Baker take on Doctor Who.

And finally for tonight - I really hope they continue to do away with the 'psychic paper'. Horrible, lazy tool. He never needed it before. Large part of the Doctor's appeal was the whole 'just act like you own the place, and people will assume you do'. Psychic Paper totally detracts from that air of authority!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Actually didn't mind "listen", infact I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. The tension and atmosphere was really great - incidental music was actually fitting and none of that awful bombastic whimsical cheese that they usually use. Capaldi's Doctor is shaping up to be good, reminds me of Pertwee at times. Glad they didn't show the "monster" either as it would of probably been some boring two arms and two legs shaped thing. Also liked the alien planet and the possible links to Lungbarrow on Gallifrey. Hopefully theres at least a few more as good as this one and it isn't a fluke.

[Mr Mystery]

Time Heist last night.

Again, another fun episode! The plot twists were largely obvious - particularly the identity of The Architect, but somehow that didn't detract to the fun of the episode.

Teller was an ace monster, and I wouldn't mind seeing it again on screen, likewise Saibra and Psi!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Really? I thought it was comically rubbish - the concept behind it was awesome but they just made it another 2 arms/2 legs boring looking design. Should of been something far more sinister and creepier. I liked Saibra and Psi, they would make good companions and would be refreshingly different.

[Kirsten]

another good episode, really enjoying the series so far.

[Mr Mystery]

Really? I thought it was comically rubbish - the concept behind it was awesome but they just made it another 2 arms/2 legs boring looking design. Should of been something far more sinister and creepier. I liked Saibra and Psi, they would make good companions and would be refreshingly different.

Thing to remember is that Dr Who is still made on a relatively small budget. Not quite the shoestring of old to be sure, but still surprisingly small - small enough that all CGI monsters tend to look a bit crap (Lazarus Experiment for instance). So they stick to costumes, with relatively minimal animatronics (Raxos Queen shows what happens when they push it. Animate top half, bottom half did nothing!).

And it's a family show - they're limited it just how scary they can make it :)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Thing to remember is that Dr Who is still made on a relatively small budget. Not quite the shoestring of old to be sure, but still surprisingly small - small enough that all CGI monsters tend to look a bit crap (Lazarus Experiment for instance). So they stick to costumes, with relatively minimal animatronics (Raxos Queen shows what happens when they push it. Animate top half, bottom half did nothing!).

And it's a family show - they're limited it just how scary they can make it :)

They did well enough in the classic era though : Gel guards from The Three Doctors, the Krynoid from Seeds of doom and the Fendahleen from Image of Fendahl were all costumes that managed to hide the human body and make something that looked really good imo - they can do that easily enough with modern FX and have them look good. Another great example, while not Dr who would be Ambassador Kosh from Babylon5. It's not about budget, it's simply a lack of imagination and laziness on their part - i've been building monster costumes and props for years and with a little creativity it can be done fairly cheaply. Another cheap way to cover the human form is to wear robes but have parts that change the sillohette, I'd of ohad the seller have visible tree-like extensions under the robes and under the hood id of had fleshy branches that end in glowing "fruit"-like sensors - perhaps with a little fog seeping out.

[Mr Mystery]

Well, that's the best episode they've done in a long old time!

So much character development going on this season, I'm loving it!

[Erik Setzer]

Well, that's the best episode they've done in a long old time!

So much character development going on this season, I'm loving it!

I'm surprised no one took the time to tell Danny what the Doctor's beef with soldiers is. To him it must feel like the typical anti-anyone-in-the-military hate you see from a lot of people (even if it's coming from an alien). It doesn't sound as bad if you know the reason behind it.

Although, that's now at least three episodes we've seen touching on the Doctor's feelings about soldiers; two have him directly being nasty to people for being soldiers, the third was him not getting to go to the Academy to become a soldier. And it's somewhat starting to feel forced. I have to go back and check, but was he anywhere near that rude to the Brigadier when he met him? It seems like in the past he worked alongside them without trouble, and now he's quite the opposite. Is it just that he's had issue with modern soldiers who shoot first and don't worry about questions? (I.e. Torchwood.) Is it still lingering issues from the Time War? Will we ever get an explanation? (Likely, given that it's featured so heavily already this season.)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Wasnt a fan of "the caretaker". Same reason as before, I'm just not a fan of comedic focussed dr who and didnt really find it funny or entertaining - but each to their own as usual, glad your enjoying it so much MrMystery :)

Next weeks looks really promising though - looks to have more of the intensity and seriousness I have been wanting so badly and the space tech also looks more realistic in that 2001 space odyessy style, the creatures briefed look a bit more on the Giger side of things. Hopefully I will like it.


was he anywhere near that rude to the Brigadier when he met him?

The 3rd doctor could be a bit of a dick to the Brig at times, but not to the extent he is nowadays. He seemed perfectly fine with Sergeant Benton and other UNIT soldiers too. Successive Doctors seemed far more accepting and relaxed wround the Brig, especially the 5th and 7th.

[Erik Setzer]

The 3rd doctor could be a bit of a dick to the Brig at times, but not to the extent he is nowadays. He seemed perfectly fine with Sergeant Benton and other UNIT soldiers too. Successive Doctors seemed far more accepting and relaxed wround the Brig, especially the 5th and 7th.

That's how I remembered it (though I was a kid watching a lot of reruns on PBS back when I watched them). I guess maybe it's the whole deal with the British government creating a group of alien-hunting soldiers and UNIT being transformed into a much more military style force. Or something. Maybe it's a new wrinkle Moffat threw in to explain down the line, to add tension with Danny.

[Mr Mystery]

Since then we've had the Time War - and whilst The Doctor now knows he didn't do what he thought he had - he now knows he is quite capable of mass genocide.....

This is a thread still being explored in this series I think. We know Danny has some kind of shame about his soldiering days - focussing on the good things he did, such as digging wells for folks. The Doctor? Much the same....

[Anggul]

Agreed, I think there's a reason they've mentioned it a lot but haven't actually confronted it yet. At some point he's probably going to have a great big explosion in front of Danny and someone is going to demand an explanation.

[Erik Setzer]

Since then we've had the Time War - and whilst The Doctor now knows he didn't do what he thought he had - he now knows he is quite capable of mass genocide.....

I think he was quite aware of that while flooding the Sycorax to wipe them out. Or when his influence got Rose to wipe out the (known) Daleks. Or when his copy wiped out the (known) Daleks. I think I could find other examples in the recent series, but those three immediately spring to mind.

It was nice seeing the Great Intelligence reference this while talking about the Doctor. Sure, most of it could be chalked up to "He had to do it to save these other people!" but the reality is he's managed to killed thousands, if not millions, in the new series alone.

[Mr Mystery]

I think he was quite aware of that while flooding the Sycorax to wipe them out. Or when his influence got Rose to wipe out the (known) Daleks. Or when his copy wiped out the (known) Daleks. I think I could find other examples in the recent series, but those three immediately spring to mind.

It was nice seeing the Great Intelligence reference this while talking about the Doctor. Sure, most of it could be chalked up to "He had to do it to save these other people!" but the reality is he's managed to killed thousands, if not millions, in the new series alone.

Ahh, but it was the supposed destruction of Gallifrey that was his first.

Compare that to the 4th Doctor in Genesis of The Daleks - holding the two wires which, if touched, would wipe out the fledgling Dalek race. Lovely bit of monologue.

New Series Doctor? He's belatedly touched those wires together. He's taken that first step. The others are easier.

But now? Now he probably feels worse - Gallifrey showed there was always another way. And now he has a whole new set of regenerations - literally a brand new life to correct those mistakes....

[Kirsten]

liked the latest episode, good stuff between the Doctor and Danny

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

http://www.bigfinish.com/img/release/damaged-goods_cover_large.jpg

Quite excited for this, the only RTD story I liked - plus the NA's were by far the best era of Dr Who ever IMO. Hope they do more adaptations. Lungbarrow and All-consuming fire next please!

------------

And sad news, Maggie Stables RIP :(

http://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/evelyn-smythe-maggie-stables-rests-in-peace

Thought she was an awesome companion too.

[DrLove42]

So the moons an egg.

Still not sure on the stories but the characyer development is great.

Also...next week. A mummy. On the Orient Express. In space. Sold

[Mr Mystery]

Another great episode.

I'm enjoying the talky over the action of this season so far. I get the general feeling that they are rewriting the rules with this season. The Doctor is somewhat less sympathetic as a character, and more willing to push and test his companions.

[Erik Setzer]

Another great episode.

I'm enjoying the talky over the action of this season so far. I get the general feeling that they are rewriting the rules with this season. The Doctor is somewhat less sympathetic as a character, and more willing to push and test his companions.

Isn't that basically taking it back in the original direction of Doctor Who, though? Before he was trying to snog his companions or every other woman around every week?

I also couldn't help but remember in The Waters of Mars, where he decides, "Screw it, I'm helping, I can't sit and watch something bad happen!" and then something bad happens anyway, in a much worse way. It was a big reminder that he can't fix everything himself. And then there was the space whale incident, another case of possibly choosing between who gets snuffed out. I thought it'd be good for Clara and company to be reminded that he can't be expected to solve all the problems of time and space himself, that sometimes people need to take responsibility for their own problems (whether they created the problem or not). But instead, she has a breakdown because he wouldn't take over and save the day and declare what would happen to humanity himself. It's really weird for someone who's basically stepped in to save the Doctor at all the important points of his history now (yeah, I have to admit, the more I think about that, the more it draws me closer to the crowd who's irked with the character's role in the series) to just break down like that because he left the fate of humanity in her hands rather than make the decision himself.

[Kirsten]

just watched it, and wow Clara is unbelievably irritating.

[Houghten]

I could perhaps have enjoyed the episode, had I absolutely no knowledge of science whatsoever.

[Mr Mystery]

I could perhaps have enjoyed the episode, had I absolutely no knowledge of science whatsoever.

Dude it's a show about Time Travel - bit late to be worried about proper science :p

[Houghten]

I don't mind pseudoscientific babble but that was an abomination against biology and really basic physics.

[DrLove42]

Didnt see that coming

But most inportant thing to come out of it.....in canon proof that a male timelord can regenerate as a Female Timelord...

[Mr Mystery]

Needs more Missy.

Really enjoyed that finale, and I still don't get the interwebular disdain for Moffat?

[Darren Richardson]

it wasn't bad, better then some the cybermen episodes from the past, an interesting take on it, converting all the dead and cyberising them, having made copies of their brain paterns at the moment of death, then rewriting the patterns....

Looking at it overall, it seems NONE of the orginal type of Cybermen were involved at all.....

I think the reason that Missy gave for the whole thing was just perfect given Her (his) history.....

[DrLove42]

Actually a little disappointed. The first part last week was great and se tup a lot. This second half, the final episode, fell flat. Didn't think it had much of an ending. Basically no closure if Clara is gone, they've pretty much killed the master off (no chance for regen). Did like the nods and bits to the Brigadier though.

And massive cringe at Santa in the Christmas episode, although the trailer makes it look like a cross between Miracle of 34th Street and Alien....

[Mr Mystery]

Nah. Missy isn't dead. Clearly teleported away, identical FX used.....

Chrimbo one looks like fun to me :)

[Darren Richardson]

Nah. Missy isn't dead. Clearly teleported away, identical FX used.....

Chrimbo one looks like fun to me :)

Yeah, Missy teleported, most likely into that Time Lord device, after all those Cybermen were her creation, I expect she built in failsafes so if they targeted her, she'd get zapped with a Transmat beam to safety.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Plus we saw her able to enter and exit seemingly at will, when she zapped Squee....

[Darren Richardson]

Yup.

Plus we saw her able to enter and exit seemingly at will, when she zapped Squee....

Yeah I liked that bit, her own technology cheering for her defeat and downfall by cheering the Doctor!

[Erik Setzer]

"Closure" for Clara will come in the Christmas episode.

And Santa and the Doctor have been together in various media already (and official stories, too), so it's not exactly a crazy new thing.

When you have a race like the Time Lords and all that they can do, is it really that bad to throw in the occasional actual fable or whatever and act like, "In this universe, these guys are totally real, but not the way you think they are"?

[Mr Mystery]

"Closure" for Clara will come in the Christmas episode.

And Santa and the Doctor have been together in various media already (and official stories, too), so it's not exactly a crazy new thing.

When you have a race like the Time Lords and all that they can do, is it really that bad to throw in the occasional actual fable or whatever and act like, "In this universe, these guys are totally real, but not the way you think they are"?

And let us remember, and never forget....it is a programme made for families, with kids in mind. Please stop expecting hard scifi from it :p

[Erik Setzer]

And let us remember, and never forget....it is a programme made for families, with kids in mind. Please stop expecting hard scifi from it :p

Yeah, people forget that way too often. I love Doctor Who because it's a sci-fi show I can turn to when I don't want more of that super-serial stuff.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Trying to categorise Dr Who is kind of a silly thing to do really as it encompasses a whole variety of genres from across the spectrum - Historical, Soft SF, yes also a few Hard SF stories, Horror, Fantasy, Thriller, Comedy and practically any other genre you can think of. Also specific eras have focussed on specific genres and styles as well ; the 1st Doctors era was more children-friendly with pure historicals making up half of the stories, the 2nd Doctor's era was mostly Base under siege action sci-fi stories, the 3rd Doctor era was mostly on earth with UNIT, the tom baker era was gothic horror, then Sci-fi comedy then more serious hard SF, the Davison era was more about world building and different cultures, the Colin baker era was more adult and SF Horror, the 7th doctor era was more experimental before going in a more mythological style and this is why you get fans that like certain eras over others.

The modern series has taken a much more Fantasy and fairytale approach which doesnt work for everyone and I don't think anyone is expecting "hard SF", but some of us would really like some Soft SF. One episode even had Magic Pixies and trees and a solar flare made out of fire, that's pure fantasy - not SF of any kind. I'm not sure why some of you Dr Who fans always seem to try to belittle others views though, especially when you can't understand other peoples perspectives - it takes the fun out of the discussion and enjoyment of hearing other peoples views as well as potentially puts people off posting their views out of fear of being laughed at for having an opinion. Not aimed at anyone specific, just generally speaking - Dr who will always polarise people, as that is it's nature so you should expect every episode to have it's fans and haters alike. That's kinda half the fun.

The best episode this year for me has been "Flatline", despite the magic wand handwave - was very good - the Doctor is also much better than the previous three and the production and direction quality has gone up a notch, despite the obviously smaller budget they have to work with. They just need to tighten the scripts, as many of them could of been a lot better IMO. Second best episode for me was "Listen" which is the 2nd thing Moffat's written I actually liked. Psi and Saibre would make excellent companions.

And Dark Eyes 3 soon....

[Wolfshade]

Can't find old thread.

Did you see that? Did you see it???

That was effing brilliant!

As someone can't be bothered to read through 5 pages of Ob. threads...

[Mr Mystery]

:p

I did try the search function!

But what a corker of an opening episode. So much going on! Looking forward to the rest of it.

[eldargal]

It was very good, I tend to lose interest mid season in Doctor Who for the past few seasons but if they can maintain this quality for the whole season I probably won't.

[Mr Mystery]

Mostly just want Missy.

Best on-screen version of The Joker ever!

[Wolfshade]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34307519

Viewers in their millions deserted Doctor Who as it returned to BBC One for a new series, according to overnight figures.
An average 4.6m watched Peter Capaldi back for his second series playing the Time Lord, compared with 6.8m for his full debut last year.
It was roundly beaten by ITV's X Factor, which had 7.3 million viewers.

yikes

[Mr Mystery]

It's a shame. It's the best it's been for a while - and I've enjoyed every Moffat series.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

it was watchable, but still had many of the Moffat tropes that just bore the hell out of me with the whole "They are Dead/Omg They are not dead!" thing. First he was erased from the world in the season 5 end, then his death was the main story arc in series 6, then there was his grave, then oldage/no regenerations left - and we all know missy and whatshername will come back. Death seems to have zero consequence/meaning in moffatwho and I find it dull at this point.

Other than that, it was actually watchable for the televised Fanfiction that it was. More enjoyable than the previous season admitedly and it made me cringe less, so perhaps theres some hope. I like Capaldi as the doctor more.

[YorkNecromancer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34307519

Viewers in their millions deserted Doctor Who as it returned to BBC One for a new series, according to overnight figures.
An average 4.6m watched Peter Capaldi back for his second series playing the Time Lord, compared with 6.8m for his full debut last year.
It was roundly beaten by ITV's X Factor, which had 7.3 million viewers.

yikes

Not hugely surprised.

'Who' is at the least accessible it's been in years. All the 'call back' references to continuity are cute if you're a fan, but alienating if not. Then there's the fact that Capaldi just isn't very likable, which would be fine, if only Clara was something other than a blank slate. Moffat CANNOT write women, and that's a huge problem when you consider nuWHo's success was built on the back of Rose Tyler, not the Doctor. When the boring companions came along (sorry Martha) well, we had David Tennant and his excess of charisma to fall back on.

'Who' should be simple, easy-to-follow and accessible, with a relatable, human, three-dimensional companion at the centre of the story. At its best, it's the mainstream face of British sci-fi... But Moffat is too much of a fanboy for the canon, and where RTD relied too much on Deus Ex Machinae, Moffat's plots just become overly intricate, without any core of emotion to keep people engaged. His stories are light confection, kind of lovely at first, but without anything to say other than 'I bloody love Doctor Who'.

Moffat would never write someone like Rose Tyler. He'd just look at her and go 'a working class lass? She's got nothing special about her. Why would I write that?' completely missing the point that the Doctor is the one who brings the special out. That's the companion's arc: through their association with the Doctor, they become more. But no, Moffat's got a whole weird thing about women, so it never quite works that way with him.

Moffat's also got the issue that his season-long arcs have weird pacing, with big mysteries often revealed casually, and emotional high points missed in favour of the latest Clever Idea. Like that whole 'Order of the Silence' arc. A massive Big Bad, so powerful they can explode the TARDIS (assuming that was them - the mystery voice was never linked to an actual person) and what happens? Oh, the Doctor's an ex-lover of the person in charge and blah blah blah.

Wait, what? So all of this nonsense, letting himself get shot, killed or whatever and then he just solves the Big Bad without any effort at all right at the start of an episode?

Terrible storytelling.

Not to mention, Moffat is terrified of killing characters. Oh, he'll kill them every bloody episode, but they always come back. It's pathetic storytelling. Rory died so often it became a running joke. There's a line in X-Men where Cyclops is at one of Jean Grey's funerals, crying a bit, and Emma Frost comes by and says 'Really Scott, these re-runs of your grief must be getting tiresome.'

That's exactly how I feel about Moffat's use of death. The Doctor dies... Except not really. The Master dies - then she comes back and MOFFAT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE COURTESY TO EXPLAIN HOW. She just does, because of course she does. If you're too much of a coward to kill your characters, then don't. Do something else to them instead. But no, no, Missy's back, only to be killed again, only it'll be that she used the time travel wristband, just like Clara and

OH GOD I'M JUST SO SICK OF IT.

And the endless, endless drawn-out scenes of the Doctor's grief, to convince us that this time, someone's really going to die. The Doctor throws himself a three week party to celebrate his death, because This Time It's Really For Real.

So. Tedious.

And I'm going to watch them all. Because of course I am, because I lived 16 long years without Doctor Who, and I still love it. But bloody hell, I am sick of Moffat and his stupid, overcomplicated arcs that claim to cleverness to obfuscate just how dumb they are, and his bad, bad writing of female characters, and the endless zingers that don't quite work and...

https://media.giphy.com/media/Kh296M49Zr1Sg/giphy.gif

*sigh*

I'm hoping things are going to improve, but honestly, I'd much prefer a new showrunner. I'd keep Moffat on, because when he's guided by someone who gets emotional storytelling, we get magic. But on his own - or in charge - he's just awful.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Personally I think it should just be canceled. Give it a good long rest and rethink it, preferably without BBC influence too. Both RTD and moffat are too much fanboys (And TV generation ones at that) I'd much rather someone that had their own imagination and ideas and weren't afraid to piss off fans by making real radical changes and avoiding the past (I couldn't care if I didn't see daleks for several years). Basicly, someone that can show proper good monsters, tell cool original stories, terrify small children and aggravate people that grew up with tom baker and david tennant :p

[YorkNecromancer]

The Daleks = The Joker. They're the big enemy, it's that simple. I can't stand the Joker as a character, but apparently, people love him. I love Daleks. Not to mention, if they don't include the Daleks in at least one episode, they lose the rights to them, so they always have to include them a bit (hence the one series where the only Dalek was a lone eyestalk).

I don't think it should be cancelled; it just needs a better showrunner. They're not showing it next year, so 2016 will be 'Doctor Who' free (apart, hopefully, from the Xmas episode).

I'm just not particularly enamoured of Capaldi, and the stories have been pretty lame.

Not to mention, the Doctor showing up on a tank playing guitar made me f**king cringe. 'Look how cool the Doctor is! He's so wacky and out-there!'

Shut up Steven Moffat.

Just shut up.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The Daleks = The Joker. They're the big enemy, it's that simple. I can't stand the Joker as a character, but apparently, people love him. I love Daleks. Not to mention, if they don't include the Daleks in at least one episode, they lose the rights to them, so they always have to include them a bit (hence the one series where the only Dalek was a lone eyestalk).

I don't think it should be cancelled; it just needs a better showrunner. They're not showing it next year, so 2016 will be 'Doctor Who' free (apart, hopefully, from the Xmas episode).

I'm just not particularly enamoured of Capaldi, and the stories have been pretty lame.

Not to mention, the Doctor showing up on a tank playing guitar made me f**king cringe. 'Look how cool the Doctor is! He's so wacky and out-there!'

Shut up Steven Moffat.

Just shut up.


I've never seen any actual proof of the Dalek thing. People keep saying that if they don't use them yearly they'll lose the rights but has there been any actual evidence of it? I always thought it was just Russel and Steven's fanboyism in action. That said, i'd rather they did lose the rights to them than continue with televised fanfic stories like they have done since 2005. I still have nightmares of "Dalek" where it's reaching for the sunlight, oh please Yog sothoth please get me a sickbag. Man OCD sucks I'll tell ya - once you start something you can't stop.

I don't think a good showrunner could save it at this point, even if they had the talent of someone like Christopher H Bidmead or Verity Lambert, but I'd certainly like it if someone of that caliber stepped up as it would make a change from people that want to relive Tom Bakers era.

Anyway, yog is calling me, apparently i need to wash it's dishes...tsh, eldritch abominations these days....

[Mr Mystery]

Did we watch the same episode?

Missy surviving certain death is nothing new.. Right back to The Deadly Assassin, Missy has just sort of shrugged off death.

And c'mon. It's the first episode. If it was the season closer, the fair enough. But we've got lots of stories to come to explain just how she did it - and even if they don't, it's still nothing new.

Rose Tyler? Bloody awful character. Is Clara particularly interesting? Not compared to Ace - but still better that 'but Doctor, I loves you' nonsense of Rose.

Moffatt's stories are better than anything RTD came up with - look at John Sims' Master. Oh god, the horror the horror.

The flash backs were necessary. Remember, this is the series opener. There will be themes being set up here. Some will become apparent in the early episodes, and some perhaps not even until the next series.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Ace was awesome. An actual alternative girl, and she had balls and beat the f**k out of a dalek with a baseball bat and in the Virgin NA books she went on adventures on her own and even ends up going to gallifrey to stir things up training to be a time lord, in the audios she is more Dominant and holds her own as an equal and even makes Hex her ***** at times. I loved Barbara and Liz Shaw too, they had brains. Wish they'd have a goth chick or even better an alien girl.

[Mr Mystery]

Also, as much as I like Moffatt's stories, it is around about time we had a new show runner, just to shake things up a bit. RTD did four season, Moffat is now on 5 (and some decent specials). Round this one off, see off Clara - and that should be about good to go in terms of handing over the reins.

Capaldi is right up there with my favourite Doctors though. McCoy, Baker The First, Capaldi.

And there's not much between them.

[Psychosplodge]

I don't watch it, but just seen this on tumblr and looked quite interesting


People think that Nine is dark sullen and a killer. They’re wrong. Nine not dark. He’s light and happy and in love. He wear a leather jacket and is the closest Doctor the the Time War but he is not dark. He is a light person who is fighting his dark past. He knows what he’s done and is fighting to right his wrongs. He just wants everyone to live.

Eleven on the other hand is the exact opposite. People think he’s a puppy in a fez. They’re wrong. He is not happy and joyful. He’s careless. He is having adventures while ruining lives and killing people. He is the man who forgets. He has forgotten the pain he felt after what he did and now is so comfortable killing.

He doesn’t remember Nine. Nine, the Doctor with depression. Nine, the Doctor who fell in love with an nineteen year old shop girl who didn’t need a magic back story to be special. Nine, the Doctor who went and saved his friends without killing. Nine, the Doctor who chose to lose instead of causing loss.

Nine chooses to give up being a god. Eleven pretends he is a god. Nine would make a merciful god. Eleven acts like a vengeful god. Nine is a puppy in a leather jacket. Eleven is a a killer in a fez.

[Erik Setzer]

Well. I certainly have a different view, but I guess it's from watching Classic Who (some of it close to the time it actually aired... hey, we do what we can across the pond from the BBC).

I hated Rose. They forced her on the Doctor too much, tried to make her too important, and she was the blueprint for Clara. Clara might have a slightly worse personality, but it's many of the same problems with being much more important than she should be.

Death means nothing? Well, for Time Lords it pretty much does mean nothing. That's been a running theme with Doctor Who, even with the Master, where they hardly bother explaining how he/she keeps coming back. It was blatant this time, she used a teleporter, and people paying attention knew that. Ditto for Missy and Clara "dying," they were clearly teleported. The effect was a teleport effect, certainly not the Dalek death ray effect. But I guess only people who really love the show and pay attention would get that.

The Doctor on a tank with a guitar? Hey, I get it. If you realize your sins are catching up with you and you're trying to outrun them, you do crazy things to get around the grief. He's a freaking god, basically, of course sometimes he'll slip and forget he shouldn't be doing these things. By now he's over 2000 years old, you kind of expect that stuff.

I like Capaldi overall. But I get it, people like the really young handsome men playing the Doctor, not an old guy who more accurately reflects someone who's millennia old and stopped trying to pretend to be something he's not. (To Matt Smith's credit, he did a good job at times conveying the feeling of an old, tired man pretending to be a young man.)

The only reason the episode seems convoluted right now is because there's been no resolution. That's the problem with two-parters, but people love two-parters, so we keep getting this stuff. The first episode is a build up, the second is the conclusion, so the first is almost always viewed as meh until you see the second part. (Thank goodness they don't split episodes of Sherlock, else they'd have the same problem.)

I'm interested in seeing where it goes. And thankfully I still remember what show we're watching. The hero carries a screwdriver than can do anything. He used to offer jelly babies to people to defuse situations. The main villain had black hair, wore black, and had a goatee, and just screamed "evil." The most threatening aliens have plungers. The props used to involve plastic wrap and aluminum foil. The Doctor was once put on trial by a future version of himself who was going to steal his own regenerations to live longer, and the Master got involved in a plot to take over Gallifrey and try to make sure he was the one who killed the Doctor, not someone else (like, you know, the Doctor trying to kill himself to steal his own regenerations before he could regenerate into the version trying to kill himself... seriously, you need to watch the beloved Valeyard arc before you talk about convoluted stories).

It's never been a show that takes itself seriously, and it's when it tries to get too serious that it starts coming apart. Embrace the madness. Enjoy it!

- - - Updated - - -


Moffatt's stories are better than anything RTD came up with - look at John Sims' Master. Oh god, the horror the horror.

I think Sims did a decent job with the Master, but the plots RTD had him doing were just... WTF? A bit of tweaking and it could have been really good. I like the idea of the Master being a bit nutty after he got brought back from the dead because the Time Lords wanted an ultimate soldier (since the Doctor wouldn't do it) and he had to run to literally the ends of time as his people fought a horrible war. He also became a bit more sympathetic than just a goatee-wearing all-in-black villain.

Missy's already moved ahead of Sims in my own opinion, but I thought Sims did well with what he had. I'm glad we're not casting Missy aside too quickly. (I'm even happier with the scene where she tells Clara, "See that couple over there? You're the dog.")

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Death seems to mean nothing to steven moffat in general - the biggest joke was Rory who died and came back so many times it was litterally Dr who's own kenny from South Park. Moffat litterally can't seem to leave ANYONE dead because he's too scared to piss off the fanboys (like all those ones that still cry over Ianto from torchwood) I still remember cringing at that "Everyone lives!" line from the silly story with the gasmask kids.

Personally it's the more serious leaning stuff I much prefer. I hated all the light hearted stuff like the awful douglas adams/graham williams era where they couldn't reign in tom bakers rampant narcissism and the show became a total joke, and not in a cool Red Dwarf way. I'd kill to have tv stories as good as Earthshock, Logopolis, Curse of Fenric, Inferno or The Massacre again, allthough id much prefer ones as good as All-consuming fire and lungbarrow as the books were always so much better IMO. Better stories and better companions too (Roz is still one of the best companions in dr who), guess we'll probably just have to agree to disagree :p

[Wildeybeast]

Also, as much as I like Moffatt's stories, it is around about time we had a new show runner, just to shake things up a bit. RTD did four season, Moffat is now on 5 (and some decent specials). Round this one off, see off Clara - and that should be about good to go in terms of handing over the reins.

Capaldi is right up there with my favourite Doctors though. McCoy, Baker The First, Capaldi.

And there's not much between them.

That's all well and good, but who would you replace him with?

[Mr Mystery]

No idea!

Last night's episode was great!

[Psychosplodge]

lols. (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a670727/slipknots-corey-taylor-will-lend-his-voice-to-doctor-who-villain.html#~ppz2M9kOSmeyWX)

[Erik Setzer]

SPOILER-ish comments below...

Absolutely loving Missy, but I agree that it'll be good if they don't overuse her but just have her around for one or two stories a season. I think it's kind of a natural progression of the Master that, by now, she's just having fun doing what she's doing, and no longer bothering to take it seriously, because, well... why should she? Dead so many times, only to keep being brought back, often unwanted, and dealing with all kinds of BS. And by now it really does feel like she's not really doing evil things just for evil's sake, but because it's how she assumes it'd be best to achieve the "right" ends (even if those aren't actually good).

The Davros interactions were also great. That was kind of cold, though, pulling at heart-strings, making people feel a little bad for Davros, and then going, "Ha! Gotcha! He's still an evil *******!"

But where do things go after the end of the show? It seems like there's no way the Daleks could be the threat they once were, or Davros could still be as evil as he was. But then, there's also the possibility Missy might end up in control of the Daleks. Finally got the army she wanted, but more effective than the Toclafane ever could be.

[Mr Mystery]

Agreed - especially about the need to keep the use of Missy a special treat.

Though having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing her and The Doctor team up once Clara nicks off, even if it's just for a few episodes - just the two of them. No human influence.

Oh, and is it just me, or was Clara somewhat less insufferable in that episode?

And in other Who News - just procured yet more DVDs to replace my VHS collection. Damned near got all the Jon Pertwee stories now - with the added bonus many have had restoration done since the VHS release. All that remains is to finish off the Pertwee era, Tom Baker era and the few I haven't yet procured for Peter Davison.

That done? Well, I'll be going back to the old black and white ones, procure the complete stories that are available.

Love Doctor Who, I do.

[Erik Setzer]

Agreed - especially about the need to keep the use of Missy a special treat.

Though having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing her and The Doctor team up once Clara nicks off, even if it's just for a few episodes - just the two of them. No human influence.

Oh, and is it just me, or was Clara somewhat less insufferable in that episode?

I'd love to see the Doctor and Missy do an adventure or two together... it would be sheer chaos and madness!

I think Clara was less insufferable because she was always being outmaneuvered by Missy and couldn't get her bearing enough to try to take charge.

[Mr Mystery]

Would make for an excellent Chrimbo Spesh I'd say - something slightly out of kilter with the arcing storyline, and a bit of fun for all involved.

In other news, there's a new 'teen' spin off in the works called 'Class'.

And I almost forgot Dr Who is on again tonight. Silly me!

[YorkNecromancer]

So I'm putting in my prediction for this series' big reveal:

Clara is the Master's daughter, put through a Chameleon Arch to take on human form.

Hence that throwaway line in episode 2, hence why Missy didn't kill Clara despite basically being Missy, and hence why she 'gave' Clara to the Doctor. There'll be some grand plan involving doctor/Clara 'learning a lesson' or something, but that's my guess for this series.

[Mr Mystery]

Dunno about that one. There's nothing to really set it up. And with Clara departing at some point this season the timing would seem odd.

[Mr Mystery]

The Girl Who Died.

Kind of a mixed bag for me. Nothing fundamentally wrong with it, and the ending was superb. But just....not quite the full shilling.

Looking forward to next week's one though.

[Erik Setzer]

The Girl Who Died.

Kind of a mixed bag for me. Nothing fundamentally wrong with it, and the ending was superb. But just....not quite the full shilling.

Looking forward to next week's one though.

I'm really wondering what they're leading to with that ending.

One thing I'm confused on (SPOILERS to follow, if that's a necessary warning at this point): The medical kit (nanobots?) will just keep repairing her. People "grow old" by their cells decaying, so she wouldn't grow old (effectively being sort of immortal), I get that. But wouldn't she still be able to age to adulthood? I wouldn't think the medical kit would attack healthy new cells being created in her body, keeping her forever young.

[Mr Mystery]

Not if they're designed to freeze the biological state. Kind of like PC Imaging on a chip embedded in the machine, resetting it with every reboot.

Follow up is on now. It's superb!

And it continues being ace throughout!

Sadly not Ace though. I want Ace back, dammit.

[Wolfshade]

https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbr1njq5Ui1rbt6uoo1_500.png

[Mr Mystery]

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/dr-who-ace-then.jpg

She's all out of Kippers. How about she smokes a few Daleks instead?

[Charistoph]

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/dr-who-ace-then.jpg

She's all out of Kippers. How about she smokes a few Daleks instead?

Babes* love their cannons, don't they...

*I know a different word is used, but I think this one is a little less offensive.

[Erik Setzer]

Not if they're designed to freeze the biological state. Kind of like PC Imaging on a chip embedded in the machine, resetting it with every reboot.

Follow up is on now. It's superb!

And it continues being ace throughout!

Sadly not Ace though. I want Ace back, dammit.


That's a possible point, yeah.

I did enjoy the episode, and it got surprisingly dark in places. Good catch also on the point that being human anatomically would mean the brain could only hold so much, unlike a Time Lord, so she wouldn't be able to remember everything. (Have to say, her library of journals kind of reminded me of the one room in the TARDIS.)

The problem with being "frozen" is that it'd make it a touch difficult to have her on the show for years to come (despite being a character who'd be fun to keep around), because it's not going to be possible to keep people from noticing the actress aging, unless they do some makeup magic.

But she'll be back in episode 10 this season, in some way, so we're not done with her yet. (And really, how could we be? With that set up for her story arc, that has to be a character who sticks around.)

[Mr Mystery]

And room for a cheeky nod to Blackadder the Third...

[Mr Mystery]

And that?

That is how you monologue. Absolutely cracking episode!

[Wildeybeast]

Bit too preachy for my liking, but it was well delivered.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Boring, but a lot less worse than the one before it which felt like the daily mail in dr who form to me.