Who's Your Favorite Traitor Primarch?

[Bigred]

So many to choose from...

Fulgrim - Emperor's Children
Perturabo - Iron Warriors
Konrad Curze - Night Lords
Angron - World Eaters
Mortarion - Death Guard
Magnus the Red - Thousand Sons
Horus - Sons of Horus
Lorgar - Word Bearers
Alpharius - Alpha Legion

But who is your favorite?

And more importantly why?

Appearance, background, character?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'd say Magnus, partly because he's one of the more tragic figures (despite being somewhat derpily written on occasion), and I enjoy the Thousand Sons aesthetic.

[energongoodie]

I've gone Curze. I like the idea of him being all about Right and Wrong and his own brand of justice.
If he had landed on a more civilized world he could have learned to be an awesome cop like TJ Hooker, but instead ends up on a planet of criminals and learns to be evil.
He is so Chaosy but is so anti authority that he wont follow them either.
I'm really looking forward to the model of him aswell.

[musical-fool]

Lorgar for his story is the most tragic. A fall from grace, only wanting to best by worshipping his father as a god only fall to the most basic of human traits: jealousy. Thus stumbling upon Chaos and only to be pushed farther into ruin by his adopted father Kor Phaeron.
Besides with him we wouldn't have had the heresy :)

[Deadlift]

I went with Mortarion, there's just something about him and the Deathguard that's really appealing to me over the rest. I can't put my finger on it but it's there. I have more than a little interest in some of the other traitor primarchs too. Angron, Magnus and Perturbo are easily up there but for me every time I think about doing a pre-heresy army. The Deathguard always grab my attention most. As for Morty himself. His described appearance just embodies death itself, with his "man reaper" and "the lantern", hooded robes over his armour. He's the bloody grim reaper. If drimdarks what your looking for in 40k, this guy has it in spades.

[Wildeybeast]

Where's the 'death to the traitor scum' option?

[ElectricPaladin]

I appreciate the tragedy of Magnus's story. He wanted to be loyal, but he was entangled by powers beyond his comprehension and dragged kicking and screaming into daemonhood... I like it.

[Tyrendian]

very close between Magnus, Perturabo and Alpharius - the first two mainly because of their character and tragic story, Alpharius because I find it incredibly amusing to imagine him sneaking around in his own legion, with only his twin (maybe) knowing where he's at and also because of the entire concept of the Alpha Legion maybe still being loyal to mankind, if not the Imperium

[Bigred]

I go with Mortarion, who's got double daddy issues with the Emperor and the Overlord of Barbaros, but deep down is a softy homesick kid who remade his daemon world in the Eye in the spitting image of Barbaros.

I bet he keeps a weepy (and Nurgly) diary...

[DrLove42]

Maybe a little biased (being my legion and all)....but Lorgar wins.

Lets face it Horus is just the front man of the traitors. Lorgar (and Erebus) orchastrated the ENTIRE thing really. PLus hes usually written in BL by ADB, who's the best you could ask for.

Magnus does come a close second. The tragedy of his legions fall is brilliant.

PLus they're both Academics and Statesman which appeal to me more than the warrior

[Matthew Meyer]

I've always liked Fulgrim, theres something about his obsession with perfection turned tragic that I can really relate to (uberachiever in high school who went somewhat crazy during early college before returning to sanity in time for Real Life).

And his HH book as fantastic.

[TB0N3]

"Tell them their empty whispers fall upon deaf ears - their gods are dead, human reason has killed them." -Perturabo-

[Chris22]

Magnus for me. His fall is so tragic and I love the look of his legion. A bunch of warrior-psykers who can make your heart explode with a thought is just too awesome to ignore.

[FreedomHammer]

Konrad got the memo that it's important to just be yourself ... unless you can be Batman ... Always be Batman.

[Bigred]

...If he had landed on a more civilized world he could have learned to be an awesome cop like TJ Hooker, but instead ends up on a planet of criminals and learns to be evil...

And I just snorted out my coffee... thanks.

Now I have a vision of Shatner wearing a stringy black wig and doing emo Curze in a Batman-Priceline mashup...

[Brother Garrod]

"I have seen darkness, witnessed it in my dreams. I am standing at the edge of a chasm. There is no escaping it, I know my fate. For it is the future and nothing can prevent it coming to pass. So I step off and welcome the dark."

Easily konrad , more so than some of the other Primarchs ( a notable exception is Angron ) he's a product of the environment he landed in.
Yet even though he ended up on Nostromo , a hell hole to be quite frank, he still has (d ) that strong sense of justice , and strove to combat the evils of the world he ended up on ( thats not to say his methods weren't a ' tad ' extreme lol )
hes probably the only primarch that can really be called schizophrenic . especially towards his end

[Megad00mer]

Angron. The most tragic. The most wasted potential. Who knows what he could have been if he landed on a different world, among a different people?

Guilliman was great, but was it because greatness was encoded into his genes, or because he landed on a world of beauty and order, found and raised by an honorable man who taught him honor in turn?

Angron was a broken angel. A demi-god that was mutilated and turned into a play-thing for the privileged's amusement. His mind lobotomized and constantly punished with horrific agony unless he was killing. He freed his fellow slaves, punished his oppressors fighting a war he know he couldn't win. And on the eve of his last battle, a battle that should have been a glorious last stand with his brothers and sisters, the Emperor snatched him away without a word. He was denied the death he earned, the death he should have had. Not only for honor's sake, but because it would have been a mercy. He was broken beyond repair, life was constant agony. Better to die in glory with those he cared for (and those who knew his pain) then to be kidnapped and forced to fight again. The Emperor did the same thing to Angron that his original oppressors did. No wonder Angron turned traitor. The Emperor treated him like a dog, afforded him no respect and left his chosen warriors to die rather than allowing Angron to raise them up into Astartes or at least, help them win this last battle.

If I can understand any Primarch turning against the Imperium, it's Angron. To him, the Imperium and the Emperor were just another "master", another oppressor, forcing him to fight a series of battles he never wanted.

The World Eaters were simply an extension of this. They were only frothing madmen because, in wanting to understand their "broken" Primarch better, maybe even learn to love him as the other Legions loved their fathers, they allowed the Butcher's Nails to be implanted into their skulls. The War Hounds would have been better off never finding their gene-sire.

Angron should have died at Desh'ea. The very fact he lived to become what he did because of the Emperor's utter disregard for his wishes is the most tragic tale of any Primarch.

He should have died with his army. It should have been glorious....

[Deadlift]

Awesome writing Megad00mer, I think you may have nearly changed my mind.

[energongoodie]

And I just snorted out my coffee... thanks.

Now I have a vision of Shatner wearing a stringy black wig and doing emo Curze in a Batman-Priceline mashup...

That's what I was going for :D

Well played Megad00mer.....well played.

http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/well+played+well+played+_d41ebe3c5301f6d62668a863a ad4ebf5.png

[Wildeybeast]

See, I'm not buying all this 'nurture' stuff. Not everyone gets to land on a perfect world like Gulliman. Vulkan sees his father cut down by DE raiders. Corax has to spend his formative years hiding in holes in a slave labour camp. The Lion lives on a world filled with literal monsters. Ok, they all have good people to look after them and raise them right, but is that really all it is? I don't think so. Some of them are just badly made to start with, and then corrupted in their warp transit across the galaxy. I don't think Curze would have turned out any better if his places had been switched with Corax. What madness would have ensued had Angron landed on Ultramar? Yes some of their falls are tragic and perhaps avoidable, but all happen because of their own inherent character flaws, like any true tragic hero.

[ACE01]

Great argument for Angron (who's 2nd place for me) but most of all, Magnus. Scholar, Sorcerer, soldier and statesman. The aesthetic appeals to my historical interests, as does the pursuit of maintenance of knowledge. The synergy of the cults driven by Magnus' own learning is something I hope we get more of in HH book 4!

[Rissan4ever]

He should have died with his army. It should have been glorious....
Wow. That just decided my vote right there.

[Xenofobulus]

Wow. That just decided my vote right there.

Yup, I was going for Magnus, haven forgotten the tale about Angron, so heres to you my liege.

[Thaldin]

Magnus was a tragic figure, yes... but he still didn't listen and thought he knew better...

My vote is for Alpharius because, in theory, he (they) were still trying to save mankind... not convert it, use it, sacrifice it... but save it and to do so, they went against all they believed and put mankind ahead of themselves to try to preserve it.

[BrotherAlpharius]

I long thought Magnus was the most tragic but then I read A Thousand Sons and decided that Ahriman and The Thousand Sons were more awesome and their tale more tragic than I had realised...but that Magnus was disappointing. Magnus's hubris and blind arrogance, his deception of his father and his sons weakened him slightly for me. I still like the early Magnus as seen through Ahriman's eyes.

My vote went to Night Haunter - he was the mirror that reflected the ugly truth of the Emperor's ambitions and through his death achieved vindication. Others started out great and were broken, Curze started out broken and rose to greatness.

I think it's a poor reflection on the Black Library that Horus is the least popular.

[Kaboof76]

I've always liked Fulgrim, theres something about his obsession with perfection turned tragic that I can really relate to (uberachiever in high school who went somewhat crazy during early college before returning to sanity in time for Real Life).

And his HH book as fantastic.

That book was the best one I've read! Blood orgies and fecal paintings, awesome! Can't believe Fulgrim hasn't received more votes!

[Neyd]

Fulgrim, because who really needs modesty when you can be perfectly fabulous

[Bigred]

Yeah, I'm surprised Horus is so unpopular.

Considering he is the central character in the first 3 novels, he's not getting much love for all the attention Black Library has heaped on him.

I think Horus has been portrayed as a bit of a dupe/puppet at this point. He's the standardbearer of the Heresy, but it feels like he is being manipulated by all those around him and the Chaos Powers who are all pursuing their own more interesting agendas.

And nobody wants to root for a dupe.

[Coyote81]

But I think Horus is suppose to become the least liked Primarch. He's portrayed as the best of them all. Yes still falls to chaos, and even when it comes to that, ultimately fails. He represents the weakness each and every primarch has, and noone wants to thank that their favorite Superhero/Villian is weak. I think the black library did a fine job. The early books about the Sons of Horus are some of my favorites.

My favorite is Konrad Cruze. The poster before me stated it perfectly. but I'd like to add that he knew what was happening and how he was going to die. Maybe he could have changed the future, maybe not, but he did not try. He knew what the outcome would be and decided to live with what he was and what his father had made him instead of giving in to what his father wanted and thus saying that who he was was never the right path in the first place. His father should have accepted what he and his army was doing. And embraced that is was being done in the name of the Emperor.

[ak318]

I say curze as he is the son that does so much for the father the only way he knows how through fear. Then when the galaxy is beginning to go more to the emperors liking then he is called a criminal. Also likes the fact he sees his own death coming and just goes ahead with it.

[AdamHarry]

Angron. The most tragic. The most wasted potential. Who knows what he could have been if he landed on a different world, among a different people?

Guilliman was great, but was it because greatness was encoded into his genes, or because he landed on a world of beauty and order, found and raised by an honorable man who taught him honor in turn?

Angron was a broken angel. A demi-god that was mutilated and turned into a play-thing for the privileged's amusement. His mind lobotomized and constantly punished with horrific agony unless he was killing. He freed his fellow slaves, punished his oppressors fighting a war he know he couldn't win. And on the eve of his last battle, a battle that should have been a glorious last stand with his brothers and sisters, the Emperor snatched him away without a word. He was denied the death he earned, the death he should have had. Not only for honor's sake, but because it would have been a mercy. He was broken beyond repair, life was constant agony. Better to die in glory with those he cared for (and those who knew his pain) then to be kidnapped and forced to fight again. The Emperor did the same thing to Angron that his original oppressors did. No wonder Angron turned traitor. The Emperor treated him like a dog, afforded him no respect and left his chosen warriors to die rather than allowing Angron to raise them up into Astartes or at least, help them win this last battle.

If I can understand any Primarch turning against the Imperium, it's Angron. To him, the Imperium and the Emperor were just another "master", another oppressor, forcing him to fight a series of battles he never wanted.

The World Eaters were simply an extension of this. They were only frothing madmen because, in wanting to understand their "broken" Primarch better, maybe even learn to love him as the other Legions loved their fathers, they allowed the Butcher's Nails to be implanted into their skulls. The War Hounds would have been better off never finding their gene-sire.

Angron should have died at Desh'ea. The very fact he lived to become what he did because of the Emperor's utter disregard for his wishes is the most tragic tale of any Primarch.

He should have died with his army. It should have been glorious....


I'll second that. Angron is the whipping boy for a lot of jokes about being a mindless, Angry killing machine. But it's the why that counts. He should have been able to go out like a champion. Which is why he is my pick.

My least favorite...It's a toss up between Fulgrim and Kruze. Fulgrim is too boring for me. and Kruze...ugh, he went out like a punk. I know it's that whole "Heart of Darkness" thing going on. And I know he's supposed to be batman, or whatever. But his death is JUST SO LAME. "I knew they were coming. So I let them..." whatever bro.

[CenturyChild533]

Mortarion. My first real army, small scale, was Plague Marines, and I started reading the Horus Heresy novels shortly thereafter. Flight of the Eisenstein showed me Mortarion, and the dude was scary BEFORE he fell to Chaos. He's positively terrifying afterward. Even his bodyguard are scary: they carry SCYTHES as their weapon of choice.

A grim reaper of a Primarch flanked by a scythe wielding bodyguard. Good gravy.

[Mouser]

My vote is for the true Primarch of Tzeentch, Alpharius Omegon. Master of deceit and treachery, he got that one-eyed red stalking horse to take everyone's attention while he really gets the work done that the Architect of Fates needs to get done.

[Tynskel]

I am alpharius!

[Mert]

Exactly.

[Wildeybeast]

My vote is for Alpharius because, in theory, he (they) were still trying to save mankind... not convert it, use it, sacrifice it... but save it and to do so, they went against all they believed and put mankind ahead of themselves to try to preserve it.

SPOILERS


I thought they were trying to do the exact opposite. Wasn't the plan at the end of legion that Horus would win, his last spark of humanity leads to guilt and he obliterates the human race in his shame, burning out the fuel chaos needs and ending it once and for all. Humanity dies but the rest of the galaxy is saved. Alpahrius and Omegon see that the emperors plan is to defeat chaos and that letting Horus win is the only way to do this. They are serving the Emperor in their own twisted way, but not trying to save humanity.

[DavidDraper]

This is heavily biased by which black library story I am reading, but since I am doing Vulkan Lives right now, its Konrad Curze. The guy is effing *crazy*. I think someone on the frontline podcast recently said something like, um, when the Emperor showed up to take in Curze, why didn't he say 'ok, you are an effed up little guy. You kill people for fun. I'm leaving you here."

Curze has a logic- and the most scary thing about him is that he thinks he's a virtuous guy.

He is my vote for the "best" primarch.

[Kynias]

Now, although I am fervant Word Bearers player and I love the work Lorgar rolled out and their stories and heroes. I just can't seperate a sense of empathy with Angron.

The raw power, the passion and the drive are even greater than Lorgar's to his cause. His purity of purpose, absolute sense of honor and loyalty. Which the Emperizzle clearly doesn't get after letting him watch his brothers die to the last man with out him. The Emperor tricked and betrayed Angron long before Angron returned the favour. Angron was strong enough to turn from that illusion of power and embrace the truth of his own destiny at the side of the Blood God.

[Kurdice]

My least favorite...It's a toss up between Fulgrim and Kruze. Fulgrim is too boring for me. and Kruze...ugh, he went out like a punk. I know it's that whole "Heart of Darkness" thing going on. And I know he's supposed to be batman, or whatever. But his death is JUST SO LAME. "I knew they were coming. So I let them..." whatever bro.

It was more like for Kruze, his Father sending an assassin to kill him was proof that the Emperor wasn't going to win Father of the Year anytime soon. It vindicated his actions and showed the darkness of the Emperor.

I had to go with the Night Haunter. He fathered my favorite legion, and yes he is like Batman...if Batman was a psychic murder machine with a twisted streak (maybe he's more like Moon Knight).

[Lord Korven]

Angron is by far my favorite. Whats better than a raging, blood drenched, techno-gladiator? Im sure things may have gone down a bit differently if the Emperor would have waited for Angron to lead his suicidal charge and stepped in right before he was struck down. But that wouldnt have been fun.

[Aspire to Glory]

ADB made me fall in love with Angron.

He just wanted to end his torment and die with his friends. Now all he has is his anger.

[The Emperor's Champion]

I'm impressed with how close the poll results are to being right.

Poll says:
Magnus
Konrad
Alpharius
Angron
Mortarion
Perturabo
Fulgrim
Lorgar
Horus

It should be:
Konrad
Alpharius
Magnus
Fulgrim
Mortarion
Angron
Perturabo
Horus
Lorgar

[Steven Palmer]

Perturabo-Seige pro-Most amazing colour scheme between traitors and trusts nobody what so ever :D Specially when Fulgrim is trying to screw him over

[BrotherAlpharius]

I am alpharius!

I am Alpharius!

I'm liking all the support for Curze and Angron, both former one-dimensional villains fleshed out to become sympathetic tragic figures.

I'm not up on all the latest material on Kurze but I'm against the idea that he was crazy/schizophrenic. That gets thrown about casually but I think it misses the point. Someone, I think Aaron Dembski-Bowden on BolterAndChainsword expressed it far better than I can. To use that label is to miss the point. It's not that there's good Kurze and evil Kurze. There's just Kurze, he does what he believes is necessary. He says something that suggests he has a noble intent to maintain law and order and then does something that seems abhorrent - it's not contradictory, he just believes that the ends justifies the means. If he had killed the assassin sent by the Emperor (or evaded them) then he'd have been shown to be a coward or a traitor, even a hypocrite. By allowing the mission to be completed he demonstrated that his father was no better than him.

[Gaius Castus]

First post, haha! Definitely Angron for me. The most tragic Primarch IMO. Failed to conquer his planet. Had his glorious death stolen from him, and made to betray the army he had raised, and the emperor couldn't be bothered to rescue them either. The most seriously disgruntled, and the most justifiably so. Not some preening, posturing ego maniac. Just a bitterly sad and violently angry demigod of war.

[Kirsten]

I am alpharius and so is my wife.

I voted Perturabo, though angron is a close second.

[Wolfshade]

Fulgrim has the best hair in the list...

[Rissan4ever]

I am alpharius and so is my wife.

I voted Perturabo, though angron is a close second.
In the next HH book, it comes out that Perturabo, Angron, and an undisclosed third person are also Alpharius.

[Thebasementgamer]

Definately Lorgar.

"Lorgar, you've changed."

"Yes, I've been hearing that a lot."

[crandall87]

I'm really liking Konrad Curze at the moment.

[lobo60]

Curze just embodies the Anti hero to me, I love how he and his legion is completely different from all others, they are not purely warriors, they are murder's who think they are justified. and Curze believes in his cause.

[clively]

Lorgar. For the simple reason that he started the entire mess. Sure, Horus took it to the nth degree but without Lorgar the universe would have been conquered long ago and we wouldn't have a game to play.

[pgarfunkle]

Not long ago I would have said Magnus but I'm now most of the way through Betrayer and it's really fleshed out Angron.

[MisterCyto]

Tie between Curze and Perturabo. Both with unique stories which helped them have great character that I like. One who believes in doing the right thing, kinda, and one who idek just seems to be the mopst in control of their legion and person, retaining being a "legion", just against the Imperium,, plus his character I find pretty darn cool.

[Demonus]

I voted for Magnus but after Betrayer I do like Angron as well.

Im coming to believe that Alpharius has replaced some pretty influential people in his time. Think about the Dark Angels, and how they conveniently werent around for the defense of Terra, delayed a bit too long by Lion El Johnson....or was it Alpharius?

Think about the Ultramarines, on the other side of the Galaxy so they could not be present to defend the emperor. Did Horus really send them there....or was it Alpharius?

[Sitnam]

I haven't read enough HH books so far to say, nor do I have a big interest in Chaos. I'd say maybe Kurze, but hard to tell so far.

[White Tiger88]

Fulgrim, Who doesn't love an insane Daemon snake that screams "SEX,DRUGS & ROCK'N'ROLL oh.... AND SLAAANESH"

[SaveModifier]

Got to be Angron, previously he was just a blood thirsty bezerker but the work done to show him as the most tragic figure amongst the Primarchs really makes him stand out, he never wanted to command a Legion, he wanted to die side by side with his slave army, fighting for his freedom

[Agrifex]

Angron is amazing and badass and huge and so ANGRY.
But his story is one of inevitability.
Did you notice all the loyalist primarchs were raised in harmony while the traitors were raised under terrible conditions? Except probably lorgar.
So Angron has bonds forged under such terrible circumstances with people suffering as he is, and the Emperor comes and takes him away after they reach some small victory that they have never before seen. Forcibly.
So Angron watches his kinsmen die because of some guy coming up and claiming to be his father just whisking him away with no consideration for whatever he feels.
And then it gets better. The butcher's nails slowly twist his mind. Remember, he didn't choose for them to be there. So there's that part of the inevitable tragedy.
Everything works against this guy and he comes back swinging in their faces, and even with his enormous strength of willpower, is still destined to be corrupted by some powers who just manipulate him for no reason other than hes badass.

[Sitnam]

Did you notice all the loyalist primarchs were raised in harmony while the traitors were raised under terrible conditions? Except probably lorgar.
Umm wut? Corax? The Lion? Maybe even Ferrus?

[Reaper45]

Fulgrim for me. But Angron is a close second. Easy to see how both primarchs fell. Also for Fulgrim, I love his legions' paint scheme, and if I was going to support a Chaos god, it'd be Slaanesh or Khorne and not Nurgle or Tzeentch.