Characters and List-Building - Am I Doin' It Wrong?

[ElectricPaladin]

When I make Fantasy lists, I find myself shying away from pouring too many points into my lords and heroes. I mean, they're cool and all. I don't mind putting the points into them to get the effects I want. For example, if I want a carnosaur in my list, I'll spend the points to give my oldblood or scar-veteran a carnosaur! If I need to combine Loremaster, Ethereal, and something else on my Slann to get off some awesome combo, I'll do it. The same goes, as I contemplate Vampire Counts, for my vampires and necromancers.

It's when it comes to tons of magical items, and piles of upgrades... I just don't get it. I'd rather have more of that juicy cavalry unit than an extra +1 Strength on what's already a decent combat hero.

So, am I basically doing this right - give the lords and heroes what they need to do their jobs, but keep it simple - or am I missing out?

[Chronowraith]

It really depends on the army and the purpose of the character. Some armies, the characters make or break the army (Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings, and to a lesser extent Empire, etc). Other armies are all about the units (Skaven, Orcs, etc).

The real key is to have a purpose for each character and then only give items/abilities that will mitigate something the opponent can do to prevent him performing that purpose or that actively improve his ability to perform that purpose.

Since you use the Carnosaur as an example I'll expound on this a little. What is a the purpose of a Carnosaur? Well, with everything they have they are superb monster killers. So why not capitalize on that. Give the Old Blood a piranha blade so that he does d3 wounds per attack and suddenly the model's ability to kill monsters just improved 100%. Now, what are some concerns about the Carnosaur? Well, first it has to get into combat. Second, cannons are exceptionally good at taking out the carnosaurs, and lastly, they are susceptible to sturdy units of ranked infatry. So let's try and mitigate that as much as possible. First, throw a charmed shield on him. THis gives him a 2+ ward save against the first wound he suffers. Since the opponent is likely to cannon him (if they have cannons) or aim other high Strength weapons at him, this works great. Aditionally there are several common flaming cannons so for an extra 5 points the dragonbane gem is perfect as now, he has a permanent 5+ ward versus those cannons as well as flame cannons, warpfire throwers, fire magic, etc. Now, the carnosaur can be given swiftstride (loping stride) this helps to increase the liklihood of a good charge and leaves him out in the open less frequently. Lastly, consider the crown of command as it will make the whole model stubborn and thus, less likely to flee even if he does lose to static combat resolution. At the end of the day the model is very pricey but it's rock solid with items making him hard to kill from every angle, performing his primary mission of monster hunting very adeptly, and can even hang out against ranked units like a champ.

That's just one example of where loading up on magic items and abilities CAN be beneficial. In general though, if a magic item doesn't serve a specific purpose that either mitigates common actions taken by opponents or increases the characters offensive potential at what he is supposed to be doing... don't take it. Also, avoid situational items. If you find yourself saying, "If this happens than I can use this item" then it's probably not worth the points unless the condition is VERY common.

Also, don't give characters items that fall outside their scope. This happens alot with Warriors of Chaos as they feel the need to make Sorcerer Lords both magic and combat intensive. The point being, if you don't want the character in combat... don't give them combat items.

Lastly, the biggest error I see new players committing is the over-use of defensive items. Specifically the Talisman of Preservation (4+ Ward). Players need to ask themselves the question, "Is my general really going to be in that much danger?" If they are midly good at combat, maybe they will. If they suck at combat (Goblins, most high level mages) then honestly, if you are being hit by things where your general has to worry about ward saves... something has already gone awry. The only time I"d protect a non-combat character with a ward sve is if they are absolutely vital to the survival of the army and even then... I may not (I frequently don't protect my TK Heirophant with a ward because he can get one through spells and usually is nowhere near combat).

[Mr Mystery]

To me, it depends on the army.

For instance, Dark Elves. Doesn't matter how hack slashy I make them, my dudes are still dead squishy at a mere T3. As a result, armour up to the nines every single time! Yet to dust them off for their new book, but I usually bung some kind of amulet of protecty doodahs on my General, especially when he's on the back of his Dragon (horribly vulnerable up there!)

Heros? Depends entirely on where they're going in my line. In with infantry? Great Weapon, decent armour, don't worry too much about the protecty ming. There are fairly subtle magic items out there which might do better. Though I do have a sort of fetish for bound spells. So many players forget about these, and they can provide a nasty shock in the right place!

My Ogres however? My Tyrant is a challenge beast. Sword of Antiheroes for loadsa attacks at mental strength, Trickster's Helm, because when you're T5, making your opponent re-roll to wound is well funny, and because I can, The Other Trickster's Shard, because it's dead annoying when some git is saved from a righteous panelling/shoeing/general head smashing because of some poncey Ward save.... It's 95 points all in....and I do of course buy him Heavy Armour, because why wouldn't I! And I'm yet to lose him in a game! Only downside is his own lack of a Ward, but hey, T5, with my opponent re-rolling to wound pretty much sees me through, as not having to roll to save is vastly superior to any Ward save you might have!

[okeyigiveup]

It depends on which type of characters you wanna have : a synergistic one, or an independent one.

A synergistic character, such as one which can boost your unit(s), or simply a bsb or gerneral, you would want him/her to survive as long as possible.
In such case it is worthy to invest a bit more on him/her, so he/she can last longer & do his/her job better.
That's something a unit could never make up for since there's only 50 or 100 points.
Especially for those armies which have a significant advantage or weakness, a character could matter quite a lot.

An independent character, not necessarily a lone character, is one you take for nothing but his/her own stat. & abilities.
This would be a more complicated situation to decide if you should spend some extra points on them.
The first thing you have to ask yourself is, if you have to worry about him/her to die.
For example you want to bring the oldblood for the carnosaur, so the oldblood is nothing but some bonus for the carnosaur.
If so you do not need to pay too much for the oldblood since that's not what you care.
The second thing matters is the impact of the investment of the extra points on items.
A vamipre lord could become nearly invincible with the help of items, while at the same time a goblin big boss is still a goblin only no matter what you give it.
The more impact it brings the more it is worthy to pay for the items.
The last "things" I wanna mention (but probably not the last thing you may need to consider), are the fixed numbers, the points & the stat.
For a costly character, like a daemon prince, you would want it to do the best for its cost, so there's no reason not to pay that little extra points.
But for a cheap character such as a skaven chieftain, it would be more effective to simply buy another chieftain or an unit, in lieu of giving him/her some fancy upgrades.
Stat also matters since the racial difference could be critical.
An Ogre character could fight or even win his combat without magic gears, but a High Elf will die in no time if he/she doesn't bring the right stuff.
Till the end you always want your characters to make up for their points.

[Wildeybeast]

I think everyone has already mentioned the key points about knowing what you want to do it with your character. If I just can't resist the urge to field that gorgeous Black Dragon model, then I'm going to go all out and make the lord riding it as killy as possible, because that is his job (by they way Mystery, check out the Hydra Blade and Cloak of Twilight combo - ouch!).

When I'm playing Empire, with cheap heroes to act as unit buffs, I don't bother tooling them up much. That said, I highly recommend looking at some of the cheaper magic items for nice little boosts, especially when you have a few spare points kicking around at the end of writing your list. To me, this is the perfect use of magic items. Enchanted shield for a +2 boost instead of the +1. Dragonhelm for the extra save and that wonderful ward against flaming. The sword of +1S is really good on a decent combat hero (especially one with 'human' stats). If he's going to be a cannon magnet, give him Ironcurse Icon. Even if these things make a difference just once in game, they've already paid for their points and then some. Oh, and I never leave home without a Standard of Discipline in my general's unit (unless he's already LD10 of course).