Vehicles movement, firing, and embarked units with slow and purposeful.

[lomaxxdurang]

So I have a curiosity question in regards to how slow and purposeful units embarked on a transport might affect the rules for firing and movement.
eg. A Mega Armored Warboss and a squad of lootas in a battlewagon. The Mega Armor gives Slow and Purposeful, the lootas are heavy.
Can the vehicle move flat out still?
If the vehicle moves at combat speed do the the lootas get full BS?
More importantly do they get full BS at cruising speed?

Rules in question:
Slow and Purposeful:
A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run, Turbo-Boost, move Flat Out, perform sweeping advances or fire Overwatch. They can however, shoot with heavy, salvo, and ordinance weapons counting as stationary even if they moved in the previous movement phase. They are also allowed to charge in the same turn as they fire heavy, ordinance, rapid fire, or Salvo Weapons.
Fire Points:
A transport might have a number of fire points defined in its entry. A fire point is a hatch or gun slit from which one or more passengers inside the vehicle can fire shooting weapons (or use witchfire/ psychic shooting attacks).
Unless specified differently in the vehicle's entry, a single passenger can fire out of each fire point and the other transported models cannot fire. Ranges and line of sight are measured from the fire point itself. If an embarked model fires a template weapon from a fire point, discount the hit scored against the vehicle- we assume the weapon has been fired in a sufficient arc to clear the vehicles hull. Note the passengers can fire at a different target to the vehicle itself. Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at combat speed count as having moved that turn. Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at cruising speed can only fire snap shots that turn. They cannot fire f the vehicle moved flat out or uses smoke launchers that turn.

Open Topped Transport--- Passengers Shooting from Open-Topped Transports:
Open Topped Transports do not have specific fire points. Instead, all passengers in open topped transport can fire, measuring range and line of sight from any point along the hull of the vehicle.

[Sly]

"Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at cruising speed can only fire snap shots that turn."

I think that this is not referencing any mode of movement for the unit inside the vehicle, thus any rules such as S&P or Relentless that would affect the unit's fire would not help when it is the transport that is moving. The models may not count as having moved, but the vehicle still counts as having moved at cruising speed, and therefore this restricting would apply.

Note, however, that in the above case of a wagon with a Mega-armor Boss and Lootas, moving at Combat Speed does not give any restriction, thus you should be able to Embark, Disembark, and/or move at Combat Speed with the wagonload of Lootas and still shoot at full BS (hehe... Orks and ballistics skill in the same sentence... hehe).

[Nabterayl]

I believe this is the correct analysis as well.

[Archon Charybdis]

Agreed, so it does still grant the advantage of being able to move at Combat Speed and shoot normally, for what it's worth.

[lomaxxdurang]

"Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at cruising speed can only fire snap shots that turn."

I think that this is not referencing any mode of movement for the unit inside the vehicle, thus any rules such as S&P or Relentless that would affect the unit's fire would not help when it is the transport that is moving. The models may not count as having moved, but the vehicle still counts as having moved at cruising speed, and therefore this restricting would apply.

Note, however, that in the above case of a wagon with a Mega-armor Boss and Lootas, moving at Combat Speed does not give any restriction, thus you should be able to Embark, Disembark, and/or move at Combat Speed with the wagonload of Lootas and still shoot at full BS (hehe... Orks and ballistics skill in the same sentence... hehe).

OK Loota's are heavy weapons and when you move with a heavy weapon you snap fire. It is no different then a guard squad in a chimera with a las cannon; when the chimera moves the las cannon is forced to snap fire. That is unless the squad is affected by the slow and purposeful rule while in the vehicle; then they would get to fire the heavy weapons at full BS.

Now I am not saying that this reading to the rules is right its more of a curiosity. How are you interpreting the rules in that regard? If you are reading it as the vehicle moved at combat speed so full BS, then slow and purposeful would kick in and they would receive it at cruising speed as well. Its a situation of all or nothing.

Further thoughts please.

[Nabterayl]

I do agree that Slow and Purposeful applies to the entire squad so long as one model in the squad has the rule. However, "counting as stationary even if they moved" is, I think, GW's clumsy way of saying, "Ignores the effect of movement on shooting." It does not mean "counting as stationary, full stop."

As Sly pointed out, passengers in a vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed are forced to Snap Fire just because. They don't have to Snap Fire because they moved, or because they count as having moved, or anything like that. In point of fact, the rules for passengers in a vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed don't even say that the passengers count as having moved. They have to Snap Fire because they do. Thus, a model wielding a Heavy weapon in a transport moving at Cruising Speed has to Snap Fire:

Because the rules for Cruising Speed tell him so, and
Because he counts as having moved (arguably).
Slow and Purposeful allows him to ignore #2. It does not allow him to ignore #1.

Combat Speed is different. The rules for passengers in a vehicle moving at Combat Speed simply say that "Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Combat Speed count as having moved that turn." If the model in question has a heavy weapon, then he has to Snap Fire:

Because he counts as having moved.
Slow and Purposeful allows him to ignore #1, though, allowing the model to fire as if he were stationary.

[Anggul]

But attaching a SnP IC does indeed grant the squad he's attached to the ability to move and fire at full BS with heavy weapons? Wow, that's one hell of an oversight, that makes no sense at all. Do the Lootas all climb on the Warboss's shoulders and form a tower or something?