The Outcast Dead ++[SPOILERS WITHIN]++

[SadisticMagician]

I've just finished reading The Outcast Dead (I'm a little behind everyone else) and while I thoroughly enjoyed most of it, the ending left me pretty dissatisfied. My main point of contention: what was the point of having the Thunder Warriors in it at all? All we are left with is the knowledge that some survived and have possibly managed to sort out their organ issues. So what was the point? As far as I know they don't play any role in the Heresy later on. Anyone shed some light on this? Spoilers in the later books kept to a minimum pls.

PS I assume Severian will turn up later on in the series, so I'm not too bothered that he was just forgotten about.

[AirHorse]

The impression I got was that they were there to highlight the brutality of the early unification wars and the raw power that the predecessors of the astartes possessed. They were clearly incredibly dangerous and unstable and it helped make clear why the astartes were developed and the thunder warriors replaced.

The final note about them managing to sort out some of their issues I can only assume must pop up again at some other point?

That or it is just another classic bit of heresy mystery, I guess it opens the door to the possibility of thunder warriors surviving, maybe even all the way through till 40k in the depths of terra, which lets people do creative things. An inquisitor with a thunder warrior as part of his retinue is already sounding interesting!

[Psychosplodge]

Nostalgia, and possibly makes them available for the siege of terra

[Wolfshade]

Also, it shows a different side to the Emperor. Usually he is presented as humanities saviour, but he has specifically designed the thunder warriors to be his ultimate shock troop and then to fail and die off, so they are as expendable as a round.

[GravesDisease]

PS I assume Severian will turn up later on in the series, so I'm not too bothered that he was just forgotten about.

The audio drama "Wolf Hunt" takes place mere hours after the conclusion of the Outcast Dead and continues this story thread.

[Katharon]

From what I've absorbed from "The Outcast Dead," Arik Taranis (the guy who is trying to sort out the gene problems) is kind of like a proto-primarch. The Thunder Warriors were the predecessors of the Astartes, so it seems only natural that there was a predecessor to the Primarchs. This would explain why Arik Taranis was able to survive the death of the Thunder Warriors and how he is able to comprehend and actually study the Emperor's genetics program.

As for why he is in the book at all? That's a question we won't know the answer to until much later. He provided a nemesis of sorts, but isn't a proven enemy of the Imperium -- at least not yet. Time will tell. Although he is what you might consider "Frankenstein's Monster" of the 40K universe. The Emperor is suppose to be the glorified and perfect being to which all Humanity aspires and many Astartes wish to emulate (Emperor's Children), but in order to carry out his plan -- so narrow and hazardous as it is and was (which He imparts knowledge about to Kai Zulane in visions) that he had to dirty his hands on occasion.

The greatest moment of such a vile act was the necessity of the Thunder Warriors: genetically created warriors that were psychopathic killers, utterly without remorse or hesitation in the execution of their duties; the perfect warriors for quickly and violently unifying Terra. However, compared to the more noble and human-like Astartes, the Thunder Warriors are brutes, thugs meant for nothing but pure destruction. Mankind could not be allowed to march into the outer reaches of space with such merciless and brutal warriors in the vanguard. So the Emperor did what he considered the best option: a genetic defect built into the Thunder Warrior code, a time delayed death. But like any great mastermind or scientist, his creation comes back to haunt him -- hence the Frankenstein comparison.

[mathhammer]

1) I'm not sure there is any proof the Emperor actually added a timed death to the Thunder Warriors, It seemed more they were the early version and had flaws. Flaws verses power. In the Space Marines, he scaled the power back and made them live for thousand of years. I'm also sure there was a difference in their process of creation. Space Marines need to be in there early teens (late puberty) verses thunder warriors who could be anything from clones to prisoners converted.

2) The thunder warriors also reflect heavily into the world eaters history:


Cerberus Insurrection (Unknown Date.M30) - The newly dubbed War Hounds were tasked alongside the Terran XXII Dracos Regiment of the Imperial Army to subdue the asteroid prison colony of Cerberus which had risen up in anarchic revolt in a state of near continuous rioting and mob violence. Initial attempts to impose order by Terran troops had been thrown back in disarray as it became apparent that among the insurrectionists was a renegade cadre of outlawed Thunder Warriors, long believed dead, calling themselves the Dait'Tar.
http://www.throneofskulls.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2552

3) It also adds additional players to the imperial power struggles, that i'm sure will come into play as the series continues.

[AirHorse]

I was under the impression that thunder warriors were of a different creation process too, a process that had a lot less requirements on the individual being transformed to meet. That's probably why there were so many side effects!

While I find it hard to believe there was a deliberate flaw engineered into the thunder warriors, its clear that the emperor knew of the flaws and it fit well with his plans as he no doubt began work engineering the astartes shortly afterwards.

[m3g4tr0n]

I had trouble believing that a fully armed/armored Custodes could be defeated by an unarmed/unarmored Astartes.

Seeing renegade Thunder Warriors pop up during the Siege of Terra would be nice.

[Katharon]

RE-read Outcast Dead then. They spell it out quite clearly in the book that it was intentional.

[Nefarius Drapesh]

I interpreted the role of the Thunder Warriors in Outcast Dead more as a metaphorical analogism to the Space Marines.
First pinnacle of bioengineering and warfare, but when the mission/conquest is done they become useless. More so, they become an unwelcome leftover.
If the Horus Heresy didn't happen and the Space Marines stayed unified and loyal, as soon as the galaxy was conquered that would've also been a possible fate for them.
Without war no use for warriors...

[Psychosplodge]

Well think back to the earlier books in the heresy and how civilised some of the legions were depicted as. There would be cause to keep a few around, maybe at a reduced size, to keep over ambitious governors in check. And of course you'd need the Wolves around to keep them in check.

[Katharon]

If the Horus Heresy didn't happen and the Space Marines stayed unified and loyal, as soon as the galaxy was conquered that would've also been a possible fate for them.
Without war no use for warriors...

I will refer you to the quote from First Captain Sigismund of the Imperial Fists from Horus Rising: "We will spend our lives fighting to secure this Imperium, and then I fear we will spend the rest of our days fighting to keep it intact... In the far future, there will be only war." Even if the Crusade had been allowed to be complete and the full extent of the old human colonies re-connected with Terra, there would still be a need for the Astartes. Even if, as the Emperor was aiming for, Chaos was dealt a fatal blow by the elimination of all human-spawned religions and faith in Chaos; you would still have the Orks, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Tyranids, and myriad other foes to still deal with.

[Bob821]

RE-read Outcast Dead then. They spell it out quite clearly in the book that it was intentional.

More than once if my memory serves.

[miteyheroes]

During the Siege of Terra, the Emperor's Children leave the siege and start experimenting on the civilian population. I'd be absolutely astounded if Fabius Bile and the Thunder Warriors don't end up meeting...