Drop-pods disembarking

[Obispal]

Sorry if this has a easy answer, When disembarking from a drop-pod do you measure your disembarkation move from the main hull of the pod or from the Doors (opened)????

Just want to be sure before a tournament

Thanks for your time :)

[Wolfshade]

Can of worms: OPEN

There hae been long and frequent discussions about this, it all depends on how you interpret the rules.

If you consider the open doors to be decorative then measure from the main footprint (pentagon shape)
If you consider the doors to be part of the hull then measure from them.

The general consensus is the pentagon base ignoring the doors, but it is not clear, the latest C:SM may have cleared it up but I do not recall.

[Mr Mystery]

Simply put, this is one for the tournament organiser alone to answer, as it will vary from tourny to tourny.

Long as everyone is told which way it's swinging on the day (hurr) then nobody can actually complain.

[Tynskel]

It is from the hull. you can open doors on the tanks, too, and you do not measure from the doors, you always measure from the hull entry point.

[GravesDisease]

Also, can you clamber up and down the doors or do you have to walk around them if you're using it for cover?

[Wolfshade]

It is from the hull. you can open doors on the tanks, too, and you do not measure from the doors, you always measure from the hull entry point.

Whilst I do agree with you, if doors are not hull, then if you are shooting at my tank and can only see doors then is the hull obscured since clearly doors =! hull?

[DarkLink]

No, because they're extraneous bits that you ignore. Plus, a model can't get cover from itself.

[Wolfshade]

Sorry yes you can't get cover from yourself, but if we ignore doors, then if you can only see the door of whatever vehicle I have you can't then shoot at it since it is "decoration" or "extraneous bits that you ignore" therefore not part of the model for shooting purposes.

[ElectricPaladin]

No, because they're extraneous bits that you ignore. Plus, a model can't get cover from itself.

Ah, yes, but the Lucius-pattern drop pod - Forgeworld - explicitly states that it grants a 4+ cover save to anything touching it, which includes toeing one of the doors.

I agree that you should measure from the hull for movement purposes, but to play devil's advocate, there are drop pod variants where the doors count as part of the model for rules purposes.

[RGilbert26]

The doors do not count as they are blown off as it lands, hence why they are not treated as terrain. You measure from the hull of the drop pod and not it's doors. When a drop pod explodes you also measure from the hull.

[Obispal]

Also, when firing its death wind launcher, do measure from the hull or the weapon?

[Wolfshade]

The doors do not count as they are blown off as it lands, hence why they are not treated as terrain. You measure from the hull of the drop pod and not it's doors. When a drop pod explodes you also measure from the hull.

Again while I agree with you about where to measure from. No where in the rules does it say the doors are blown off. In the fluff it says that the doors are blown, that could be as you assume completely off or it could be sufficient to break the hermetic seal to allow the external atmosphere to mingle with the pods. If there was a pressure difference between ship conditions and planetary conditions in terms of air pressure they might need to be explosively blown or never be able to open, similiar to emergency de/re pressurisations.

[Wolfshade]

Also, when firing its death wind launcher, do measure from the hull or the weapon?

You measure from the weapon.

[mathhammer]

It doesn't matter which you measure from as long as you remember the shape of the hull can't change. So if they want to disembark from the doors then it has to land with the doors open and they can't stand on the doors (same as you can't stand on a rhino).

[DarkLink]

Ah, yes, but the Lucius-pattern drop pod - Forgeworld - explicitly states that it grants a 4+ cover save to anything touching it, which includes toeing one of the doors.

I agree that you should measure from the hull for movement purposes, but to play devil's advocate, there are drop pod variants where the doors count as part of the model for rules purposes.

That's different from Line Of Sight stuff, though, which is what I was talking about.

[Tynskel]

Whilst I do agree with you, if doors are not hull, then if you are shooting at my tank and can only see doors then is the hull obscured since clearly doors =! hull?

This is a superficial argument. If you open the doors on your tank, there is still an outline where the door was attached to the hull. *That* is where you measure from: the hull.

[Nabterayl]

This is a superficial argument. If you open the doors on your tank, there is still an outline where the door was attached to the hull. *That* is where you measure from: the hull.
But yes - if you are playing that the doors are not hull (which is my personal preference), and there's like, a drop pod shaped obstacle between you and the pod, behind which only the doors protrude, then you don't have line of sight to the pod at all. The same is true if, say, the only part of a tank you can see is its gun barrel, or a comms antenna. If you don't have line of sight to the hull, you don't have line of sight to the vehicle.

[Mr.Pickelz]

I would think that a Drop Pod's Doors or any other kind would work similar to the Ork Deff-Rolla, in that, it's an aesthetic piece and can never be used for LOS or movement measuring. If you wish to place a model on top of it (the Deff Rolla), look to the "wobbly model syndrome" rules. In the past when cotton balls were used for Smoke Launcher representation, it was allowed to shoot through it when checking LOS (Line of Sight.

In the issue of Drop Pods or things like Chimera's rear entrance (giggity), the door only matters for marking entrances and exits, and ceases to matter once it is converted into a ramp or opened in such a manner as the doorway is revealed. The measurements should be made from the doorway, and not at the door's resting place.

[DarkLink]

But yes - if you are playing that the doors are not hull (which is my personal preference), and there's like, a drop pod shaped obstacle between you and the pod, behind which only the doors protrude, then you don't have line of sight to the pod at all. The same is true if, say, the only part of a tank you can see is its gun barrel, or a comms antenna. If you don't have line of sight to the hull, you don't have line of sight to the vehicle.

Someone needs to model a Daemon Prince with giant wings furled around his body and make this argument. "You ignore the wings if you're trying to shoot me so you can't target the wings, except that you don't ignore them for LOS so you can't actually see the body of my Daemon Prince, so he's immune to all of your shooting."

[Wolfshade]

It doesn't matter which you measure from as long as you remember the shape of the hull can't change. So if they want to disembark from the doors then it has to land with the doors open and they can't stand on the doors (same as you can't stand on a rhino).

Not quite true, drop pods are open topped so you do not need to dissembark through the doors.


This is a superficial argument. If you open the doors on your tank, there is still an outline where the door was attached to the hull. *That* is where you measure from: the hull.


Someone needs to model a Daemon Prince with giant wings furled around his body and make this argument. "You ignore the wings if you're trying to shoot me so you can't target the wings, except that you don't ignore them for LOS so you can't actually see the body of my Daemon Prince, so he's immune to all of your shooting."

Totally superficial but a logical extension from the claim that an item is not part of the hull.

I think I will now model all my land raiders with open side doors so people can fire all the way through it.

The consequences of arbitarily declaring what is and is not part of the hull has some strange consequences and one must be consistent throughout.

I would like something slightly more explicit when it comes to the drop pod rules to stop this sort of arguments something along the lines of:
Deep strike the vehicle using normal rules. Once it has landed and any difficult/dangerous terrain tests have been resolved, all doors open (without causing any further difficult/dangerous terrain test) and are unable to be re-closed. The models must disembark. The open doors for game purposes are treated as clear terrain and cannot be targetted as part of the drop pod.

Or some such.

[Katharon]

You should really never waste points on the Deathwind Launcher. It's range is too ridiculously low to ever amount for much.

[RGilbert26]

Someone needs to model a Daemon Prince with giant wings furled around his body and make this argument. "You ignore the wings if you're trying to shoot me so you can't target the wings, except that you don't ignore them for LOS so you can't actually see the body of my Daemon Prince, so he's immune to all of your shooting."

I keep forgetting the fact that if all you can see is the wings on a model you can't shoot at it :p

[DarkLink]

Totally superficial but a logical extension from the claim that an item is not part of the hull.


It's a logical extension of the claim that the fact that whatever extraneous bits in question are not part of the hull, that means they are separate terrain that blocks LOS to the model.

[Wolfshade]

It's a logical extension of the claim that the fact that whatever extraneous bits in question are not part of the hull, that means they are separate terrain that blocks LOS to the model.

Which I believe is what you said in post #7.


No, because they're extraneous bits that you ignore. Plus, a model can't get cover from itself.

[DarkLink]

Yes. It was reductio ad absurdum, just a reduction of a slightly different point than what you said.

[pnkfld7892]

I find it is easiest to think of it this way: The Marines inside the pod start moving from the inside of the hull where their harnesses are, therefore they START their movement from said harness; therefore can move X" from the hull of the drop pod. No worrying about what is and isn't a superficial part of the model. I think my theory applies to Rhinos, LRs, and other transports if you think of them starting from INSIDE said Transport

[phil035]

also take into account that you can use a drop pod to block line of sight by just opening one door....

[Mytaru]

No you cant block los with a drop pod. It always counts as open even if you glued it closed. As what its rules say.

[Anggul]

Surely there's no reason not to follow the same rules as all vehicles? Doors are just doors, regardless of how big they are. I would measure from the base of the pod. It also allows you to have them looking awesome walking down the doors. You couldn't do that if the doors were the hull. Doors aren't hull I believe.

[DarkLink]

No you cant block los with a drop pod. It always counts as open even if you glued it closed. As what its rules say.

I'm pretty sure there isn't actually a rule that says that. There's fluff about pod doors opening, and most players prefer to play it like that, but TLOS still applies. Even an open drop pod can block LOS to a small enough model.

[Fenriryan]

My god some gamers really do astound me...

A door has to open before you can move through it.

So before you move you must be stood in front of the door.

So thats where you would measure from - the point you would be stood at as the door opens.

So unless someone really wants to serious argue that Space Marines magloc onto the door ready for it to open (in which case you have bigger issues) that seems the reasonable and logical way to go about this.

[Tynskel]

My god some gamers really do astound me...

A door has to open before you can move through it.

So before you move you must be stood in front of the door.

So thats where you would measure from - the point you would be stood at as the door opens.

So unless someone really wants to serious argue that Space Marines magloc onto the door ready for it to open (in which case you have bigger issues) that seems the reasonable and logical way to go about this.

I am glad this guy uses their heads on this one.

[Wolfshade]

Of course it is opened topped so you don't need to use the doors ;)

[James_33]

I can't imagine that the designers intended for the doors to count as part of the hull. That would mean that a landed drop pod would take up a huge amount of real estate and would significantly hamper an opponent's movement. Tournaments would see Marine players strategically landing their drop pods to make a region nearly impassible to their opponents unless they could explode the pods.

I've always counted the distance from the pentagonal base and considered the doors to be decorative. And I regularly allow my opponents' models to trample all over the doors as long as they stay at least 1" away from the base.

[DarkLink]

Trust me, even without the doors, drop pod players do make walls with their pods.

[Tynskel]

Trust me, even without the doors, drop pod players do make walls with their pods.

well, yes. They are making walls with the Hulls, not the doors. I have used drop pods to great effect this way (as well as spore pods).