Captain America: The Winter Soldier [Archive] - BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

Wildeybeast

10-24-2013, 01:25 PM

That was my favourite line too. That, and the slam down the old German dude delivers to Loki.

I get why most people didn't fall in love with First Avenger. What I like about it is what makes most people think it is ho hum or worse. I liked the artistic style, if that is the right term. That sort of faded patina like it was filmed in the 40's. Most of all I liked the Cap. Everyone rational thought I have tell me I should hate him - all American poster boy, goodie two shoes and so on. Except he isn't that (at least not in the films, I haven't read the comics). What he is is a Good Guy and you can't help but like him for it. He isn't overly charismatic, his powers and equipment aren't too OTT, he isn't riddled with complex psychological problems. He's just a Good Guy. He has an admirable and uncomplicated sense of right and wrong and he sticks to it, without the sanctimonious moralising or god-complex that Supes has. Those are the things which make other superheroes interesting, so I get why the film didn't wow people like other super hero films, but for me he is a welcome breath of fresh air.

YorkNecromancer

10-24-2013, 01:27 PM

I'm really excited for this. I know I'm in the minority, but I thought the cap was the best of the pre-Avengers films so I can't wait for WS.

Totally agree. Lovely to see a film where the hero doesn't go on The Hero's Journey. I seem to recall it was by the guy who did 'The Rocketeer', and so it really had the whole dieselpunk 40's thing going on so well.

Plus, Cap is by far the most human of all The Avengers; the simple motivation of "I don't like bullies" is inspired.

Now, if only they could do a proper story built around him vs. Punisher, with Cap as metaphor for American militarism as ideal, and Punisher as American militarism as the dark side.

"How can you do these things Castle? You're an American soldier?"

"With respect, sir, we fought in different wars, and you know nothing of mine."

http://static.squarespace.com/static/51f33e15e4b0db872bc435eb/51f33fbfe4b09e476d653c80/51f33fd3e4b09e476d653f00/1358076168000/20130113-122240.jpg?format=original

Get Garth Ennis to write it and it would be the best Marvel comic ever.

Wildeybeast

10-24-2013, 01:35 PM

Dieselpunk. That was the term I was searching for.

You make a good point about the hero's journey as well. He has an origin story which makes him more believable, more achievable (in a still completely unachievable way) to the fan. No childhood trauma, no exploding planet, no vast pool of infinite wealth, just a Good Guy who wants to better himself for the sake of protecting others and gets the opportunity to do so. You sound like you've read some of his comics York, can you recommend some essential Cap stories for me to pick up?

YorkNecromancer

10-24-2013, 02:10 PM

You sound like you've read some of his comics York, can you recommend some essential Cap stories for me to pick up?

I've read surprisingly few actually; I'm not a huge fan of Marvel comics, more specific writers (Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis, Bryan K. Vaughan, the usual suspects). I love the idea of Cap, but I've yet to read anything that wasn't "Captain America saves the day by punching stuff", which is really depressing when you've got this genuinely good man, who embodies everything great about the US (and there's a lot of great stuff about the US), and all you need to do to create drama is just to show him the truth about what the US government does (which is, by and large, horrific, and that's just in the real world).

Probably the best thing I have read with him in is 'Ultimates' vol.1; it's by Mark 'I'm Not A Sociopath, Just Stupid' Millar, who is a Vile Piece of Trash in real life, and so there's all sorts of really weird gender and sexual politics in it - I have yet to read a Mark Millar comic that didn't just make me feel uncomfortable (and not in the "wow, this horror story is really good" way, more the "wow, you really hate women, Mark Millar. You really, really hate them." kind of way). There's some good bits, but the overall thing is let down by the villains. Apparently, in the ultimate Marvel universe, the Reich was actually a secret ploy by aliens - which is an idea I find mildly annoying, because it kind of misses the point that in real life, we humans are quite comfortable coming up with ways to be horrible to each other without alien intervention. It also features the spectacularly stupid Captain Iraq, who is an Arabian Darth Maul, lightsabre included. He's never called Captain Iraq in the comic, but only because if he was it would be impossible to take him remotely seriously.

Yeah, the more I think of it, the more I dislike it. Although it does have The Best Line In Comics Ever.

"Surrender Captain, you cannot hope to win."

"Surrender? SURRENDER?"

http://21.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kon66vqu3C1qzp5buo1_500.jpg

Actually yeah, I've kind of shown you everything you need to read in Ultimates vol 1 right there.

Nabterayl

10-24-2013, 02:11 PM

I agree that they did a really good job making him a Good Guy, and I really admire it when Hollywood is willing to do that (I give the same props to Optimus Prime, at least in the first Transformers). The thing I felt was sort of ho-hum about the film was actually just that Cap didn't seem challenging enough to those around him. I think he works much better when there are other, much more flawed superheroes for him to be contrasted against and challenge.

Mr Mystery

10-24-2013, 02:50 PM

Cap is also my favourite of the Marvel films to date.

I think given its setting, it not only captures the ideal of enlisting, but managed to do so without making the film all AMERICA! **** YEAH!!!! It managed to make genuine heroes out of all the Allied soldiers shown. Cap springs them, but it's the soldiers that take down Hydra.

Absolutely glorious film.

Think I'll put it on tomorrow!

YorkNecromancer

10-24-2013, 03:14 PM

I think he works much better when there are other, much more flawed superheroes for him to be contrasted against and challenge.

He simultaneously makes Iron Man look cooler (because Stark is cooler) and more of an ***hole (because Stark is an ***hole); the two are perfect for each other. Each is what the other is not, and the juxtaposition illuminates the unique heroism of the other.

Now get me some *******ed female Avengers! With actual superpowers! Who aren't just female versions of male characters! And who are preferably played by Katee Sackhoff!

I think given its setting, it not only captures the ideal of enlisting, but managed to do so without making the film all AMERICA! **** YEAH!!!! It managed to make genuine heroes out of all the Allied soldiers shown.

It's because, somewhat bizarrely, Captain America isn't really all about being American. He's about being a decent person, and doing the right thing, because it's the right thing. These are not uniquely American traits; they're universally human traits.

It's also the fact that he's by far the most human of the Avengers; just a poor kid who got lucky, and hasn't lost sight of that - he really is the 'ideal of hope' that Superman aspires to be. Again, this is why he's this massive mine of untapped potential as far as stories go - just have Cap call America out on its bull****: on the way it claims to have the greatest democracy - yet is riven with pathetic partisan brinksmanship and lunatic fringes; on the way it claims to lead the world - yet indulges in wars of conquest that achieve the exact opposite of what they set out to. He should be a mirror that says "This is what we are supposed to be; WHY ARE YOU GETTING IT SO WRONG?!"

It works because he's not left-wing or right-wing; he's just decent. His politics are entirely based around making the world a better place by being nice to people and punching baddies in the face, and that's just not how the world works, or how it has ever worked.

I'm really hoping they look at some of these issues in the new film. I am well psyched for it. :)

Side note: this outfit? Concentrated awesome.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1947zqmb2bo3sjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

eldargal

10-24-2013, 10:33 PM

First Avenger was the film I expected to like least and why I wouldn't say I liked it most, it is one of my favourites. Actually I like all the First Wave films a lot. Really excited for it but I really, REALLY want Marvel to get their **** together when it comes to female superheroines. Get a really good female writer (or Joss Whedon) and a really good female actress and make a REALLY GOOD female lead film for ****s sake. Preferably Captain Marvel.

I also really, really hope the very vague rumours about Black Widow/Captain America relationship are false. Let them be friends, explore how two such different characters can be friends and th strain that might put on their relationship but don't make them lovers. Seriously.

Deadlift

10-25-2013, 12:01 AM

Did nobody else notice Sam Wilson aka The Falcon ? That's cool, and looking at the trailer it seems they are sticking to the 2000ish storyline of the "Winter Soldiers" storyline.

Spoiler for those who don't know, way below.

Bucky the guy who fell from the train in the 1st movie is Winter Soldier.

chicop76

10-25-2013, 03:39 AM

In the animated furure avenger movie they had a kid. The solider and the spy. Although it kinda represent the coming of America and Russia.

However it still looks like Hawkeye and Widow have something.

I never really liked the femal captain marvel. Although I never really got a chance to really read into her.

My favorite female marvel characters are
Sue Richards
Storm
Jean Grey

Those three have song strong leadership roles and have been leaders at one point or another. For the longest the X-Men leadership started with Xavier with Scott second and Storm 3rd. Sue occasionally takes the lead of the FF several times and have proven herself to be a strong female.

Not a fan of Emma Frost really. I am still waiting till she does a Magneto who is X-Mens enemy than joins than leaves and repeat the cycle.

Rachel Summers or Polaris would be awesome to see on the screen. Got to love that Phoenix tatto on the back.

Now if Rogue had har movie that stared her absorbing Captain Marvel than i'll be game to watch.

YorkNecromancer

10-25-2013, 05:52 AM

Not a fan of Emma Frost really. I am still waiting till she does a Magneto who is X-Mens enemy than joins than leaves and repeat the cycle.

Emma Frost is the best thing in Grant Morrison's run on 'New X-Men', and she's great in Whedon's run on 'Astonishing X-Men' too. Her 'turning evil' makes absolutely no sense with the character as she currently is (i.e.: driven to atone by massive survivor's guilt, which is a major plot point in her 'Astonishing' arc).

Brakkart

10-25-2013, 05:54 AM

Love the first Captain America film (and have the fantastic soundtrack for it in my collection) and really looking forward to this one. My favourite moment has to be at 1:20 when we see multiple helicarriers (and the facility that they launch from) as the whole helicarrier take off bit was done so well in Avengers.

I share your annoyance at the lack of female superheroes on the big screen EG and those that are there possibly being used for love interest roles. Marvel and DC have no shortage of great female characters that could headline films and yet they keep getting sidelined. I don't actually mind if Cap and Black Widow do have a relationship starting in this film though, that is at least plausible and to me anyway wouldn't seem shoehorned in for the sake of it. I just wish they had Black Widow with her hair back like it was in Iron Man 2 as it looked so much better then.

I actually kinda like Emma Frost, but that's mainly cos she was such a great character in the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon.

Thanatos_elNyx

10-25-2013, 11:58 AM

Although it does have The Best Line In Comics Ever.

"Surrender Captain, you cannot hope to win."

"Surrender? SURRENDER?"

http://21.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kon66vqu3C1qzp5buo1_500.jpg

Actually yeah, I've kind of shown you everything you need to read in Ultimates vol 1 right there.

I always hated this line.
I would have thought Cap was above petty racism.

Deadlift

10-25-2013, 12:00 PM

I always hated this line.
I would have thought Cap was above petty racism.

I'm guessing that's a joke ?

chicop76

10-25-2013, 01:30 PM

I always hated this line.
I would have thought Cap was above petty racism.

Guess you must be French.

Wildeybeast

10-25-2013, 07:08 PM

Yeah, it's not racist if it against France, it's just true.

Going back to yorks earlier point, it seems like this film is going to explore the Cap calling shield on its homeland security BS. Two lines in that trailer ('I thought punishment usually comes after the crime' and 'this isn't freedom, it's fear') make me really hopeful that the cap is going to stick to his guns and stick it to Fury because it's the right thing to do.

Deadlift

10-25-2013, 11:26 PM

Then after this one and the next avengers movie, they could do civil war :cool:

eldargal

10-26-2013, 12:50 AM

I always hated this line.
I would have thought Cap was above petty racism.

Agreed, the French have a military history that makes Americas look like amateur league, this whole 'French surrender' trope was never funny to begin with and is well past it's date now.

chicop76

10-26-2013, 06:58 AM

Guess you don't eat American Freedom fries. I thought at one point Louisiana would had to change its name.

Agreed, the French have a military history that makes Americas look like amateur league, this whole 'French surrender' trope was never funny to begin with and is well past it's date now.

You talking about Napoleon. I remember the French losing the 7 year war and part of Louisiana. Only time I recall the French winning is due to Napoleon.

The animosity with the French is after WWII which had to deal with middle eastern assets several times. We like to poke at the French for their performance against Germany, although we forget French aid in our revolution, 1812 , and Louisiana purchase, etc.

What I don't get is that France have a longer history of helping America than the British and we hate the French and love the British.

Also the fact that Cap was in WWII makes the comment more relevant. Since we like to remind the French of WWII.

America did save Europe twice. Grant it WWI we pretty much waited for everyone to duke it out before we actually came in to helped.

WWII if it wasn't for nuclear technology that war could had gone a lot different. If we was still fighting the Japanese D day would had been a lot harder to pull off.

YorkNecromancer

10-26-2013, 07:30 AM

You talking about Napoleon. I remember the French losing the 7 year war and part of Louisiana. Only time I recall the French winning is due to Napoleon.

Sorry mate, but check your facts.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp

The French are the most successful nation at war in history, bar none. I know that 200 years seems a long time if you live in a country like America - one with what is functionally "only recent" history. However, in Europe, our history goes back over 2000 years (further if you include Rome), and just because the French surrendered to the Germans in WW2, doesn't mean they don't have a long and proud military record. It's also worth remembering that this surrender was mostly due to much of French population's implicit agreement with much of Germany's political standpoint. Of course, this is never spoken of in the modern age, because why on Earth would you? It's like talking about the horrible stuff Churchill did, or George Bush's family support of Hitler; people just don't mention it in mainstream discourse because we ignore evidence of complex truths that contradict simpler cultural narratives of the West as heroes fighting a noble crusade against pure evil.

You go back before the battle of Crecy, and the French and Normans are by far the most terrifying army of the planet. To quote Warren Ellis "We English might as well have called ourselves Parsnip Eating Surrender Monkeys".

What I don't get is that France have a longer history of helping America than the British and we hate the French and love the British.

Language barrier.

Also, the French have not given into more recent American demands as frequently as the UK govenment, which holds the 'special relationship' as a point of faith, especially so after 9/11, back when our PM, Tony Blair, was utterly in love with the idea of being a truly historic figure who would be remembered for his noble acts on the global stage.

In my eyes, he was, and remains, a monster for this hubristic madness.

WWII if it wasn't for nuclear technology that war could had gone a lot different. If we was still fighting the Japanese D day would had been a lot harder to pull off.

Citation?

Again, you can't be stating subjective opinion like it's objective fact. There are more than a few solidly arguments that the use of nuclear weapons against Japan were entirely unnecessary.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/the-real-reason-america-used-nuclear-weapons-against-japan-to-contain-russian-ambitions.html

So it's not one of those things where you can say "It was definitely right" or "definitely wrong". It's too complicated for such reductionism.

I leave this clip here for your consideration. It's from "Barefoot Gen", an autobiographical account of what it was like to be at ground zero at Hiroshima, as the author was. It is extremely graphic, despite being a film intended for children (12a certificate in the UK). It is also true, and represents only what the author saw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCHbF9lG3lE

chicop76

10-26-2013, 07:45 AM

Sorry mate, but check your facts.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp

The French are the most successful nation at war in history, bar none. I know that 200 years seems a long time if you live in a country with what seems like "only recent" history, but in Europe, our history goes back over 2000 years, and just because they surrendered to the Germans in WW2 (and this was mostly due to the French people's never-spoken-of-in-the-modern-age implicit agreement with much of Germany's political standpoint) doesn't mean they don't have a long and proud military record. You go back before the battle of Crecy, and the French and Normans are by far the most terrifying army of the planet. To quote Warren Ellis "We English might as well have called ourselves Parsnip Eating Surrender Monkeys".

2000 years ago France was a bunch of barbarians. Trying to remember what they were called. Visigoths, gaul, etc. Next you will say they toppeled the Roman empire and Spain and England had nothing to do with France being France. I'll accept 1k years. Thinking about it more France wasn't France when half of France got raped by Asians. More like 700 years old. Unless you want to start counting when they was actually a nation istead of a bunch of tribes or several feudal kingdoms. Heck in that case America would be much older than 200 years. Not like the native americans wasn't here before the French, British, and Spanish decided to play Monopoly with America, reminds me of the middle east after WWI.

Anyway France never really been a world power. Britain was a huge world power with huge land holdings in every continent, but two. Spain also had a big influence upon the world.

Let me put it this way. English and Spainsh is spoken across the world more than French.

chicop76

10-26-2013, 07:53 AM

They didn't mention Vietnam.

Houghten

10-26-2013, 08:21 AM

WWII if it wasn't for nuclear technology that war could had gone a lot different. If we was still fighting the Japanese D day would had been a lot harder to pull off.

Wait, what?

D-Day was in 1944.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed in 1945.

eldargal

10-26-2013, 08:41 AM

2000 years ago France was a bunch of barbarians. Trying to remember what they were called. Visigoths, gaul, etc. Next you will say they toppeled the Roman empire and Spain and England had nothing to do with France being France. I'll accept 1k years. Thinking about it more France wasn't France when half of France got raped by Asians. More like 700 years old. Unless you want to start counting when they was actually a nation istead of a bunch of tribes or several feudal kingdoms. Heck in that case America would be much older than 200 years. Not like the native americans wasn't here before the French, British, and Spanish decided to play Monopoly with America, reminds me of the middle east after WWI.

Anyway France never really been a world power. Britain was a huge world power with huge land holdings in every continent, but two. Spain also had a big influence upon the world.

Let me put it this way. English and Spainsh is spoken across the world more than French.

Seriously, no. Britain and Spain were colonial powers and, yes, Britain became the greatest empire in human history but only because we narrowly, every so narrowly defeated the French in 1815 at the head of a coalition of all the major European powers. France was THE continental power from 1440 to 1815 and the foremost of the continental powers for centuries prior (and subsequent) to that. France did also have extensive colonies and between that and their continental power until 1815 Britain and France were neck and neck and that was only because the Royal Navy prevented an invasion.

As to why Americans don't like the French, it's simple. The French did the unforgivable thing post WWII and didn't follow Americas lead in all things. Thus they were deemed ungrateful, arrogant and rude, ironically. America pissed away two centuries of close friendship because the French decided they knew what was better for their country than America did so they went their own way.

YorkNecromancer

10-26-2013, 10:04 AM

Anyway France never really been a world power.

:confused:

Given you seem to think D-Day happened after Hiroshima, I begin to wonder how solid your grasp of world history is; mine isn't great, but even I know France was a major, MAJOR world power for many years. History isn't just what happened after 1944 you know.

Let me put it this way. English and Spainsh is spoken across the world more than French.

Let me put it this way: so what?

How many places do you notice worldwide with French places names? Check the Caribbean, Canada, etc... France was a SERIOUS world power, especially during the time of the American War of Independence, where their blockade of the hated British mean that Britain's ships couldn't reinforce the men fighting the American forces, and thus America won.

Or, to put it another way: you know how America helped Britain in WW2?

In the American War of Independance, the French played the role of America, and America played the role of Britain. Without French intervention, there's a good chance America Independance wouldn't have been won until much, much later - or might never have been won at all. When Eldargal says America used to have a rock solid relationship with France, she's not kidding.

For more details, read this fascinating, fascinating book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scurvy-Surgeon-Mariner-Gentleman-Greatest/dp/1840243570/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382803318&sr=8-1&keywords=scurvy

Also, just watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G8oOcRowHCA#t=1943

chicop76

10-26-2013, 12:16 PM

Guess you don't eat American Freedom fries. I thought at one point Louisiana would had to change its name.

You talking about Napoleon. I remember the French losing the 7 year war and part of Louisiana. Only time I recall the French winning is due to Napoleon.

The animosity with the French is after WWII which had to deal with middle eastern assets several times. We like to poke at the French for their performance against Germany, although we forget French aid in our revolution, 1812 , and Louisiana purchase, etc.

What I don't get is that France have a longer history of helping America than the British and we hate the French and love the British.

Also the fact that Cap was in WWII makes the comment more relevant. Since we like to remind the French of WWII.

America did save Europe twice. Grant it WWI we pretty much waited for everyone to duke it out before we actually came in to helped.

WWII if it wasn't for nuclear technology that war could had gone a lot different. If we was still fighting the Japanese D day would had been a lot harder to pull off.

Ghee I think I mentioned the French aid. During 1812 and our revolution. More times than those two wars and our downward relationship after WWII.

You mean Quebec, Haitai etc. Never said no other place, but France spoke French.

The two nuclear bombs is what helped us allocate forces towards Europe. Meaning that the devolpment and the future deployment of the weapon and not after the explosion itself.

DarkLink

10-26-2013, 12:27 PM

Uhhh... no. We didn't have nukes until long after we put boots on the ground.

chicop76

10-26-2013, 12:48 PM

Manhattan Project was 6 years before the bombing.
Battle of Midway
Dday
Abomb
Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombed.

DarkLink

10-26-2013, 01:36 PM

And we didn't have an actual nuke until less than two months before Hiroshima. After Midway, we were already winning the war in the Pacific, nukes or not. We didn't wait for our nukes to deploy troops to Europe.

chicop76

10-26-2013, 08:25 PM

We feared that we would have to invade Japan. Hince why we nuked them instead since they wasn't going to surrender. Midway was a turning point as well. Japan pretty much had lost, but the country wasn't gonna surrender.

DarkLink

10-26-2013, 09:52 PM

...that was more than a year after D-Day. We hadn't even reached the Philippines by that point in the Pacific. We'd just reached Saipan. The endgame was still quite a ways off.

eldargal

11-01-2013, 11:09 PM

http://25.media.tumblr.com/d53fff4d6a1035d25170d2586859273f/tumblr_mvl570npng1qbzahao1_500.gif

eldargal

01-31-2014, 08:05 AM

New posters for Captain America: Black Widow and some other guy with a snow fetish or something, I don't know...

http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2014/01/black-widow-377x550.jpg
Photoshopped to **** but she looks badass.

http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2014/01/nick-fury-377x550.jpg
Always looks badass.

http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2014/01/cap-377x550.jpg
'I miss Peggy'

chicop76

01-31-2014, 09:04 AM

I think the best book I seen Cap recently was in Civil War. Cap is one of my favorites, but I like him as a support character. Although I did like Loki making fun of Cap in Thor the Dreamworld.

Ever since the Onslaught story line and the introduction of Ben Reilly I just haven't gotten into Marvel. They have gotten better with drawing you into a story line, but fail in ending a storyline. Big events used to really mean something. Now they just seem to be there to get your money and not really change anything.

Also Marvel have been killing people with no thoughts are ramifications on doing so. Also the so called good guys are on par or even as bad as Magnetos used to be.

I honestly don't want them to do a civil war movie to be honest.

Horncastle

01-31-2014, 09:47 AM

Ghee I think I mentioned the French aid. During 1812 and our revolution.

As a Canadian I would like to point out that the French didn't really provide much support to the US during the war of 1812. In fact after they were formed into militias the French residents of what is now Quebec, then a colony of France, fought for the British.

Wildeybeast

01-31-2014, 12:24 PM

http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2014/01/cap-377x550.jpg
'I miss Peggy'

Who doesn't?

eldargal

02-01-2014, 08:08 AM

As a Canadian I would like to point out that the French didn't really provide much support to the US during the war of 1812. In fact after they were formed into militias the French residents of what is now Quebec, then a colony of France, fought for the British.

We burnt the **** out of Washington D.C.:cool:

Mr Mystery

02-01-2014, 11:49 AM

We burnt the **** out of Washington D.C.:cool:

After eating their dinner!

lattd

02-01-2014, 12:12 PM

The black widow poster is rather look at my beauty at the same time being look at how badass I am, I both like it and get irked by it.

eldargal

02-02-2014, 02:35 AM

^This. It's both badass and irritating at the same time. The photoshop just isn't needed, but the angel of death vibe to it is great and Black widow is awesome. It's better than some of the BW Avenger posts but not as good as the one with her facing the viewer directly.

eldargal

03-26-2014, 04:06 AM

Sharon Carter gets her own poster finally:
http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2014/03/Agent-13-big-371x550.jpg
Nice and non-sexualised.

Deadlift

03-26-2014, 04:29 AM

I just can't get excited by this movie :(. 1st one was a bit boring for me to be honest. But then I've found Capt America to be too one dimensional and goody two shoes. Especially in movies.

Wildeybeast

03-26-2014, 06:11 AM

I'm sure I've said this before, but i had the opposite reaction. I hadn't read any of the comics as I assumed I'd have that reaction. But the film surprised me. I really liked him because he's basically a nice guy. And not in smug or saccharine or really want to punch him in the face way. Just a decent Stand up bloke. He has principles but isn't preachy, has powers but not OTT level. He isn't riddled by cliched demons and doesn't go all vengeance crazy when his mate dies. I thought the film did an excellent job of portraying him. The supporting characters were great too and I really liked the picture effect as well. I thought it was the best of the avengers films and I am super pumped for Winter Soldier.

eldargal

03-26-2014, 06:14 AM

I'm with Wildey, I was expecting to loath it but I was really impressed. Looking forward to the next one, mostly for Black Widow but also for more cap.:)

Darren Richardson

03-26-2014, 07:39 AM

Sharon Carter gets her own poster finally:
http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2014/03/Agent-13-big-371x550.jpg
Nice and non-sexualised.

huh, where did she come from?

I haven't seen her in ANY of the trailers, or any featurettes that Marvel have on their website...

Is this poster even real?

Psychosplodge

03-26-2014, 07:46 AM

First one was alright, if a bit "America! **** yeah!"
But I prefer Iron man tbh out of this new avengers series of films

eldargal

03-26-2014, 07:47 AM

Source is The Mary Sue who probably said where they got it from but I forget and am too lazy to check.:p

Wildeybeast

03-26-2014, 07:48 AM

Is she related to agent carter from the first one?

eldargal

03-26-2014, 07:50 AM

Grand-daughter or niece. Poster is also official. #googled

Darren Richardson

03-27-2014, 03:12 AM

Is she related to agent carter from the first one?

In he comics she is Peggy's Neice, Peggy's young Sister moved to america when she was older, If I'm remebering her correctly.

I could spoil things for those who haven't read the death of Captain America storyline which followed the Winter Solider storyline.....

But I shant because I'm a "nice guy" (tm)

:D

Wildeybeast

03-27-2014, 11:39 AM

Cheers for the info guys.

Wildeybeast

04-04-2014, 10:39 AM

Went to see it last night. Pretty good, though not quite as good as the first. More actiony and slightly less character development. There were some interesting consequences for the Marvel film universe.

DarkLink

04-04-2014, 12:43 PM

Nope, significantly better than the first.

Necron2.0

04-04-2014, 10:04 PM

We burnt the **** out of Washington D.C.:cool:

After eating their dinner!

Because of which, God sent a hurricane and decimated the British Army, forcing the British to leave Washington. :D

Necron2.0

04-04-2014, 10:25 PM

First one was alright, if a bit "America! **** yeah!"
But I prefer Iron man tbh out of this new avengers series of films

The Captain America character first appeared in 1941. He was initially created as a vehicle for his creators to vent there personal disdain for National Socialism. Captain America was, first and foremost, a political statement. As such, he is THE original "America! @#$% YEAH!!!" ... not just a bit. ;)

eldargal

04-04-2014, 11:03 PM

Have to put up with another round of ****ing idiiot male reviewes (http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/black-widow-reviews-wrong-captain-america/) dismissing Black Widow as eye candy despite being the second protagonist.

Wildeybeast

04-05-2014, 04:08 AM

Darren Richardson

04-05-2014, 05:23 AM

I've heard about that end credits clip, it suggests a certain program by a certain doctor is up and running.....

Comic fans will of course know what i'm talking about....

Cap'nSmurfs

04-05-2014, 05:38 AM

Really loved it. A+.

eldargal

04-05-2014, 05:40 AM

That's nonsense. She was handled really well. No gratuitous shots/poses. No crude innuendo about her. Her friendship with the cap never devolves into a clichéd romance or unnecessary sexy times. The cap is the lead, but as with other Marvel films its much more of an ensemble piece built around him. Falcon has some glimpses of interesting back story and character depth and in terms of character development the film is about Steve and Natasha defining (for different reasons) who they are and what their place is in the modern world. In fact, as I reflect it, I think they did an excellent job with her. There was no single moment in the film that I (as a red blooded male), was interested in anything other than her arse-kicking skills or what she was saying. I confidently predict you'll be pleased with how she is developed. Sadly, Agent Carter Junior and the one from HIMYM are under used, but it's a crowded cast. Oh, and in feminist terms, watch out for Jenny Agutter's kung-fu skills.

I should also mention that everyone should wait until the very end of the credits.
Yeah but it was the same with Avengers, she made teh ****ing team, she saved the day and she did it without supowerpowers and people llabelled her as eye candy. If she had been male they would have said what a badass she is but people saw a pretty woman and just assumed she was a ****ing cardboard cutout. Reading these reviews you are seeing one of the most gratuitous examples of cultural misogyny you can imagine. Otherwise intelligent men completely glossing over the importance of a woman simply because she looks pretty and the notion that pretty women are just there to be looked at is so deeply ingrained that is all they can see.><

I haven't seen it yet myself, hoping to tomorrow but it involves wrangling lots of little girl cousins and aunts.

Wildeybeast

04-05-2014, 06:44 AM

I've heard about that end credits clip, it suggests a certain program by a certain doctor is up and running.....

Comic fans will of course know what i'm talking about....

Other than recognising the article they were talking about, I had no idea what was going on. Like that Collector business at the end of Thor 2. Though I haven't read the comics.

Darren Richardson

04-06-2014, 04:03 AM

Other than recognising the article they were talking about, I had no idea what was going on. Like that Collector business at the end of Thor 2. Though I haven't read the comics.

opps I may be getting scenes mixed up....

Damn can't explain without spoiling.....

So spoiler alert.
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Nick fury standing over his own grave may suggest that the Life Model Decoy program is up and running, which was created by Dr Hank Pym the creator of Pym Particles, Antman, Goliath and unfortunetly ULTRON....

Wildeybeast

04-06-2014, 04:08 AM

Ah. That's just the end of the film. There were two extra bits, one during the credits and one right at the end of them. Have you seen them?

Darren Richardson

04-06-2014, 12:11 PM

Ah. That's just the end of the film. There were two extra bits, one during the credits and one right at the end of them. Have you seen them?

Nah haven't had the money, waiting till payday later this month, hopefully a cinema locally will stil have some showings of it...

FireHazard

04-06-2014, 09:30 PM

*SPOILER ALERT* (Albeit, a tiny one)

Anyone else catch the mention of another doctor?

energongoodie

04-07-2014, 01:55 AM

Saw it last night and loved it! Well played Marvel...well played.

Gotthammer

04-07-2014, 04:14 AM

Spoilery link (http://reginamillssituation.tumblr.com/post/81435356181/6-year-old-fan-asks-sebastian-a-question), but important.

eldargal

04-07-2014, 04:19 AM

Oh god I love that girl so much.

Wildeybeast

04-07-2014, 10:34 AM

*SPOILER ALERT* (Albeit, a tiny one)

Anyone else catch the mention of another doctor?

Yeah, I caught that one. Maybe he'll join the franchise sometime soon. I assume they have rights to all the avenger based characters.

energongoodie

04-07-2014, 01:04 PM

That Dr is always around when dealing with the Infinity gems so I don't think it will be strange for him to pop up in Avengers 2 or Guardians.

Darren Richardson

04-08-2014, 01:11 AM

ohh your talking about Stephen arn't you?

You STRANGE people you :D

Wildeybeast

04-08-2014, 11:57 AM

Yeah. He gets a 'blink and you'll miss it' reference.

eldargal

04-11-2014, 03:45 AM

http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/gallery/hail-hydra/hailhydra7.png

eldargal

04-13-2014, 09:21 AM

Darren Richardson

04-13-2014, 03:29 PM

going to see it thursday or Friday morning, work evenings so thank god Westfield Stratford has 10am screenings, then I'll have to go the following day to see Amazing Spidey 2:)

- - - Updated - - -

....Maria Hill needs to be used more as well.....

well with Shield gone, ain't she jobless now?

Still I'm sure Culson will offer her a place on the "Bus" perhaps serving drinks :D

Wildeybeast

04-13-2014, 04:17 PM

Finally got to see the film last night, which makes the picutre in the post above much more amusing to me. Probably the best MCU film after Avengers, all the things were excellent. highlight seeing Jenny Agutter kick ***, such awesome. Fun fact: the logistic behind getting 15 adults and 15 5-8 year olds to the cinema is truly impressive.>< Anyway, Black Widow was fantastic, she needs her own film. Winter Soldier was surprisingly compelling even when I was already aware of his twist and the ending was both epic and touching. I would have liked to see more of Agent 13 and Maria Hill needs to be used more as well.

I thought the first one was better. It had some very intersting ideas about modern security/surveillance and freedom, but they got a bit lost among the action. That's my only criticism though and it's a minor one. Definitely better than the the Thor and Ironman films.

eldargal

04-14-2014, 05:22 AM

I'm guesssing Shield will be rebuilt with Hill as director eventually, that's sort of what happens in the comics (without Shield being destroyed to my knowledge anyway)

Mr Mystery

04-14-2014, 06:02 AM

Must see this film!

Darren Richardson

04-14-2014, 06:29 AM

These days it is Daisy from Secret War who is the director of shield.....

Wolfshade

10-13-2014, 03:35 PM

So I saw this film last night, it was good.

Wildeybeast

10-14-2014, 11:03 AM

Took your time with that. But yes, yes it was. Did you like it more or less than the second one?

Wolfshade

10-14-2014, 03:51 PM

More I think, same with Thor. Though I think that could be cinema time spent on telling the story than setting the seen

Deadlift

10-14-2014, 04:01 PM

Took your time with that. But yes, yes it was. Did you like it more or less than the second one?

I thought Winter Soldier was a much better movie personally. Never been a fan of Captain A, too Boy Scout for me. This was quite good. Saw the rumours on a possible Civil War movie adaptation. I just don't see how it's possible to get that many heroes in one movie.

Wildeybeast

10-14-2014, 05:13 PM

I liked WS, but I much preferred the aesthetic of FA. I also enjoyed the fact it was a different setting to all the other Marvel stuff. Still, Winter Soldier did a good job of moving the story along, I just wish it had the courage to follow through with the 70s espionage story rather than falling back on 40 minutes of blowing stuff up at the end. Compare to Guardians where the stuff blowing up never detracts from the characters.

DarkLink

10-14-2014, 08:30 PM

It's a super-hero movie. It would have been anti-climactic if some super villain hadn't tried to destroy the world. I guess they could have made it work, but it would have gone in a totally different direction. Honestly, Winter Soldier was actually a better movie than the Avengers. The Avengers just had such a huge cast of awesome characters that it makes it a toss-up. But if Tom Clancy had ever written a super-hero movie, it would have been Winter Soldier.

eldargal

10-15-2014, 02:48 AM

I wouldn't say that, Winter Soldier was actually good as opposed to be entirely a middle class white male power fantasy...

I have a low opinion of Tom Clancy on many levels.

Wolfshade

10-15-2014, 05:09 AM

I have never met him so I couldn't comment.

Though I really do want a black widow film. Her character development in WS was pleasing

eldargal

10-15-2014, 07:11 AM

He writes tawdry male power fantasies for middle aged white men. To give him credit he is better than Ian Fleming.

Yup, sadly I read that not only is her solo film far from confirmed she is apparently going to have a very small role in Avengers 3 so if she doesn't get a solo film in wave 2/3 we won't be seeing much of her.

Wildeybeast

10-15-2014, 03:00 PM

Tom Clancy does about as much writing as Ian Fleming these days...

DWest

10-15-2014, 03:51 PM

Well, technically he died a year ago October, so anything you see coming out now is more "feed the estate" rubbish (but that's another story entirely).

What Clancy was good at was wargaming, essentially; the novel Red Storm Rising was a writeup of a hypothetical NATO/Soviet clash he had gamed out using available data, but he had done such a good job on determining how things would likely go, the CIA hauled him in and asked him who had given him access to classified data, as his outside guess came out almost exactly how the military's own predictions. Unfortunately for him, Clancy got to see what his idealized politician looked like in the flesh in the form of George W Bush, and there's a large drought in publication as a result of him seeing just how poorly things went in real life.