Shrike abuse

[karandras]

I had an opponent at a tournament this past weekend attempt to infiltrate a 10 man tactical squad plus Shrike plus Marneus Calgar. I showed him in the rulebook under independent characters where it explicitly states that if an IC that does not have infiltrate joins a squad with infiltrate they cannot infiltrate. He claimed that the wording of Shrikes special rules negated this, as it says Shrike's squad may infiltrate. We diced off, I won and he decided to deep strike Calgar.

This brought up a few interesting questions. It says in the rules that multiple ICs can join together to form their own multiple character units. If Shrike joins with another IC would anyone out there consider his special rules to apply (as they apply to his squad). I feel that clearly the intent of Shrike's rule is to allow him to infiltrate with a squad of Vanguard or Assault Marines as that fits the character and background of his chapter. Infiltrating him with a tac squad or dev squad and then immediately breaking him off during the first movement phase so he can jump is downright dasterdly!

My opponent clearly was abusing this. Has anyone run into this and is there a consensus as I did not find it in the faq?

[Earthen]

If multiple independent characters can form a group together with shrike (which the rule book allows) then the independent characters would form a group, shrikes group. Shrike would give this 'group' infiltrate.

Keeping that in mind in this situation, marenus was clearly a member of shrike's group, and shrike would therefore bestow infiltrate upon him.

It is totally legal.

Shrike lists are generally handicapped anyway. fast, but not very good.

You're lucky he didn't infiltrate 10 TH/SS fleeting terminators.

Guy at my shop runs 26 fleeting TH/SS termies with shrike, 10 of them infiltrated.

[Mobious]

Yeah your opponent had it right, Shrike's rule lets the entire squad gain infiltrate including an ICs. I have personally seen a nullzone Librarian or Vulkan with Shrike in squads of 10 TH/SS Terms. I would not consider it abuse since if you have infiltrators of your own you can keep him at arms length. Even if you do not, once you see Shrike you should expect this tactic. It is a one trick pony, and those squads always cost a ton.

The combos I mentioned are 730 to 780 points in total. That is a huge amount of points dedicated to one single unit. Sure they'lll bash skulls, but if you expect it and prepare your opponent's heart will be deeply sadened.

[Culven]

Unfortunately, this is another case of the rules failing to define what is considered to be the IC's "squad". If it simply stated the unit gains X, then there wouldn't be an issue. The second IC is part of the unit and would benefit. Personally, I think that certain IC/unit combinations are unfluffy and I avoid them. Some are somewhat unclear, with certain players choosing the more powerful interpretation. I also avoid these combinations. I would rather handicap myself and enjoy the game than argue the issue during the game.

[DarkLink]

Your opponent was right about Calgar, but technically you were right about Shrike Infiltrating a squad being impossible. However, I would NOT accuse your opponent of abusing the rules by letting a unit infiltrate with Shrike, even though it is technically incorrect.

[volrath8754]

At my FLGS we use adepticon's INAT FAQ for all of our tournaments. (After all why not use the biggest 40K tournament / event as a standard?) And it lets shrike infiltrate a squad but it disallows any independent characters from benefiting from it.

Link to Inat FAQ:
http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=687

[Pi666]

I think the real abuse is having Calgar and Shrike in the same army...

[BuFFo]

(After all why not use the biggest 40K tournament / event as a standard?)

Because, hopefully, your local group is full of adults able to make your own decisions? :confused:

[karandras]

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like most of you wouldn't have a problem with it. Thanks volrath for the Adepticon info. At least someone FAQ'd it. That is the way I interpreted it and based on IC rules appears correct. Otherwise, I could attach Karandras to a squad of Fire Dragons led by Fuegan and give them all infiltrate and move through cover?!?!

[slxiii]

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like most of you wouldn't have a problem with it. Thanks volrath for the Adepticon info. At least someone FAQ'd it. That is the way I interpreted it and based on IC rules appears correct. Otherwise, I could attach Karandras to a squad of Fire Dragons led by Fuegan and give them all infiltrate and move through cover?!?!

No, as he can only be attached to a unit of striking scorpions.

[DevilUknow]

ICs can only be a attached to one other thing (squad, IC, etc) at a time (see the first bullet point in the IC write up).

Shrike can give the tac squad OR Calgar Infiltration. If Calgar joins w/ the tac squad and shrike group, he removes the infiltration effect on the squad and shrike (see the "Special Rules" part of the IC write up).